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Post by MiteyMouse on May 6, 2009 14:00:27 GMT -5
Hi all...I'm sorry that I've been MIA. I'm catching up now and hope to be up to speed by the start of Day 2.
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Post by sinjin on May 6, 2009 14:05:42 GMT -5
*tweet* TIME OUT!!!
I read that NAF's comments as frustration that while he keeps saying the same thing you are nobody (nobody raises hand here) ever listens. This is not true btw. NOT that you should stop posting sacher.
No fighting in the night thread. Where is Boozy when we need him.
Mimosa's all around.
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Post by NAF1138 on May 6, 2009 14:06:01 GMT -5
Hey man, I am trying to get into it but my time is genuinly limited for the next little bit. It's starting to free up, but by the time I got past the first hump I was already out of the flow of the game. But for the record, I was agreeing with you. It's not my fault that you steal what I am going to say before I say it. I fucking agree with you on everything except your last point. Maybe you want to talk to me about that bit? I can tell you that my suspicion of paul stems from the fake fight I had with him in the Alpha Centuri game and that his posts with sister ring the same to me here as they did there. But like I said when I posted it, that's metagamey as hell and no one like a metagamer. But beyond that I am swimming here and doing the best I can to keep up. So back off with the personal insults. We think about the game very similarly and so a lot of the time you have come along and made my point for me because you are able to pay more attention to the game than I am. But I don't want to just sit back and quote you with a +1 underneath it for the whole game. That gets boring. So sorry for the personal commentary. What!? You tell me that no one wants to hear what I have to say, then get pissy with me for getting pissy with you? Sorry, if that's how you read that comment of mine then I clearly did something wrong. It isn't that no one wants to hear what you have to say. It's that no one wants to drop the "scum wouldn't do that" etc etc line of thinking. I have been preaching since at least the Batman game that the method of looking at things you proposed is the way to go about scum hunting, and the result is that people came up with "scum would never do that". They don't want to listen to that sort of reasoning. If you note, the bottom of my post says that it was essentially me +1ing your post. Forgive me for trying to have fun with me coming in to +1 you again. Maybe I should have thrown in a smiley or two to help make my point a bit clearer, but you way over reacted.
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 6, 2009 14:07:39 GMT -5
Hey! No more talking between Sach and NAF until those mimosas are gone! When posters get pissy, bad things happen. I learned that lesson yesterDay.
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Post by sachertorte on May 6, 2009 14:43:59 GMT -5
Oh. Okay. Nevermind.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 6, 2009 15:11:47 GMT -5
*tweet* TIME OUT!!! I read that NAF's comments as frustration that while he keeps saying the same thing you are nobody (nobody raises hand here) ever listens. This is not true btw. NOT that you should stop posting sacher. No fighting in the night thread. Where is Boozy when we need him. Mimosa's all around. And this is why Nights with fluff is fun! I always listen to NAF (it's true!!) I always need Boozy (also true!!) And I need more fluff in the Night! Okay, done with that. I don't really see why the anchors would be scum/town - but I don't get the color and if anyone would re-post the link to the show - I'd be really grateful!!!
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 6, 2009 15:29:06 GMT -5
Here's act 1. There's three acts and they're all about 40 minutes long.
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Post by KidVermicious on May 6, 2009 17:26:09 GMT -5
All right NAF, I agree, you were the best scum team of all time. The only reason we even got to lynch you was because MHaye parachuted in to save the day and you had those penalty points. I'm just getting soooooo tired of being on the losing team* I'm starting to channel zuma. Town absolutely lost the AC game. What, we had 3 townie power roles not claiming when under the lynch gun? We definitely deserved to lose that one. They did play well - I agree. But I still have to say that the best scum team of all time was in the "SDMB mafia" boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=490235That was truely amazing! (and - wow - Blaster Master can really BLAST ) Yeah, those guys were pretty good.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on May 6, 2009 19:35:39 GMT -5
Yeah, those guys were pretty good. True, but Doperville scum still are the only scum team that didn't lose a single member.
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Post by Pollux Oil on May 6, 2009 20:35:22 GMT -5
Yeah. I have no recollection of that game. Honestly, who kills me? I'm WAAAAY more fun to lynch. I killed you. Duh. True, but Doperville scum still are the only scum team that didn't lose a single member. Hey, the Cecilvania scum were pretty awesome too. We only lost one of us on an intentional gambit. Although I give most of the credit of the awesomeness to storyteller. He did most of the legwork. I was just the pretty one.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 6, 2009 22:07:57 GMT -5
On that note...
I am back. Our moderator has generously forgiven my absence last Day, borne of a number of sucky real-life things (most notably: my daughter had surgery this morning; it was minor, went well, and had no complications [so far], but it really made it hard to focus on Mafia).
Assuming I am not slain in the Night, I will return to full posting effective tomorrow (real-life tomorrow) morning.
- Frank/Story
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 6, 2009 22:18:02 GMT -5
Well, I'm glad you're back and I look forward to your posts. It's been a crazy Day.
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Post by RoOsh on May 6, 2009 22:37:52 GMT -5
I killed you. Duh. YOU SON OF A BITCH! I was going to say, the only person who'd do something like that... would be You. It's how I know you're scum. I die within 2 Days of the start.... ;D
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Post by RoOsh on May 6, 2009 22:39:00 GMT -5
Assuming I am not slain in the Night, I will return to full posting effective tomorrow (real-life tomorrow) morning. - Frank/Story Yay! Not that I don't love Sach and his logical discussions and all, but if I'm going to Hero Worship someone around here.... And best wishes to your little one, Story.
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Post by KidVermicious on May 6, 2009 22:47:47 GMT -5
Sorry to hear about your girl, Story. Best wishes.
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Post by RoOsh on May 6, 2009 22:56:48 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this and I feel the need to comment. This attitude is not helpful to the Town. First, as far as scum figuring out their Night-kill, the only difference between Day and Night talk is the intervening lynch. Scum can Day talk. They can immediately discuss the implications of our talk, Day or Night. Second, vanilla Townies should aspire to be Night-killed by scum. That's the best possible outcome for a Night kill (ignoring third parties) and a slight victory for Town. So no vanilla, or near-vanilla, Townie should be afraid of the Night kill. Third, while Day is the time to determine the lynch, Night is the time scum are finalizing their kill target. Their attention will be focused there, and so they may find it more difficult to keep up their Townie facade. Encouraging discussion at Night makes it more likely that scum will slip. I agree with your 2nd premise, but disagree with your 3rd and the first one is just a fact so yeah. I guess it's just my playing style of if I'm playing scum. If I'm scum, this is the sort of thing I'd LOVE- the fact that information will be shared, while I'd have some modicum of power to change the outcome of it. As Scum, I'd be monitoring the Night Discussions furiously, because that's the perfect place to find WIFOM for me during the Day. If I want to manipulate a lynch, I can see who leans which way at night, NK the ones I feel would be best for the next day, and then allow the discussion to progress. I guess when I play scum, if you've been on my Scum team, you know how I am. A control freak about these sorts of things. Like NAF's "Scum would Never do That" I always try to incorporate at least one "SWNDT" into the game play every time as scum, and see if I can get that Credibility point. For me- information is the lifeblood of being scum- you want as MUCH information on your fellow player's thoughts and moods because sure you can search out powers roles and crap like that- or you can plan ahead by figuring out the next day's lynch. As scum, you have access to your own powers and abilities, so you know if you can afford to use X power or Y power if needed based on how you see certainly pieces being moved around. So I guess I have that Paranoid thought about EVERYONE else too when they're scum. I assume they'll play like Me. Which is to say, What would I do if I were scum, and how would I manipulate the Day based on the information at Night? That's why I know the sharing of information is vital- and I don't disagree with that- if you didn't get to say something during the Day, then fine- share it at night. But to speculate or give indications of your Voting thoughts for the next day or who you find suspicious and all? I know if I were scum, I'd be looking for that information foremost. That's why I don't feel good about sharing that sorta thing. I never liked the whole Night Talk thing- felt it helps the scum too much honestly. Day talk is already plenty, but now they get to hear us talk at night too? Not sounding like a great idea to me. But that's why I prefaced my comments with the fact that I will answer any Qs addressed to me, or clarify anything for anyone at least. I don't mind that sorta communication. I don't mind discussion general or big picture ideas either. But idle speculation and thoughts about what to do NEXT? Not so much. Not a fan of that at all. I'd rather save that for the Day. When at least the Town has a power they can use on their side, and there's less of a random chance that some freaking event will occur (as usually that stuff happens in the Night vs. the Day- but :shrug: Day Killers always much that up). So yeah, I guess I disagree with your 3rd premise because that's NOT what I'd be doing as scum just "finalizing a lynch"- I'd be trying to find power roles first, then predict the lynch plan for the next Day, and then try to come up with a Plan A, B, and Plan C based on how the night kills go off. And yes. I AM that paranoid. Ask Dotchan, Pollux, Boozy, or Hockey Monkey. (-_-) :curls up with his tinfoil hat and Mimosa in the corner:
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 7, 2009 7:56:55 GMT -5
About 6 hours left in the Night. If you've sent in your Night action and didn't get an acknowledgment from me, send it again. I will acknowledge all Night actions as I process them.
Don't forget, if any of you have mandatory night actions and you don't PM me, I will choose for you.
--FCOD:highlighted:
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 7, 2009 8:59:25 GMT -5
How will you choose unclaimed Night Actions?
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 7, 2009 9:02:00 GMT -5
They'll all target you. I just kid. Random.org is the name of the game. --FCOD
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Post by Pleonast on May 7, 2009 10:26:00 GMT -5
Why are some players bragging about how awesome they were as scum? Talk about hubris...
~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Ro0sh, you're not disagreeing with my third point, you're supporting it! All those pro-scum things scum can be doing makes it harder for them to post pro-Town commentary. That was my point.
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Post by sachertorte on May 7, 2009 10:39:19 GMT -5
End of Night Thoughts: Much (all?) of this is repeats, but I thought it might be nice to collect these thoughts into one place.
Almost Human and Pollux: Pleonast is pushing hard on the idea that these are non-confirmables and should be treated as such. I have a different view. The possibility that one or both could be scum should not be dismissed out of hand, but the structure of their roles and claims (IMO) lend weight to the idea that they are Town. - Pollux and Almost Human are connected by role. While they are not explicitly told that the other is Town, they are still connected by role. If both are scum, then I have a hard time believing that Almost Human would have claimed Groupie #2 when she did. That leaves the possibility of one being scum and one being Town, which I hold still possible, but unlikely. If find the situation unlikely for game balance reasons. - FCoD's response to my poking her has revealed that the roles were carefully constructed "for balance." The lack of alignment indicators between Pollux and Almost Human is clearly intentional. The question, of course, is what the intent is. I see two possibilities so far. The obvious one that we have already discussed, that one is town and one is scum. The less obvious one, that I would like to document is simple ambiguity hinders the Town. Nothing too earth shattering here. - While Pleonast vocally points out that they are not "masons," I am operating on the line of thought that the Groupies are 'occupying' the Mason slot for the game. That is, any claim of non-groupie Mason will constitute a counter-claim.
Inner Stickler and zlw: Again we have two players who are connected by role with no explicit mention of alignment. However, we have statements from zlw and Inner Stickler, that the mechanics of their roles do not make sense if the other is not also Town. That's a pretty strong statement to me. In my view, very strong evidence will need to surface to convince me that Inner Stickler or zlw are not Town.
Commentary on everyone else: This is from memory, so if I have little impression, it's because I didn't notice, not necessarily because you aren't there.
1. NAF1138 - mostly missing for Day One. Hard to read at this point. I'm not loving all the +1 junk. I'm eager to see what NAF thinks. Maybe I'll try and supress myself and give him a chance to speak first.
2. Total Lost - Not noticable
3. MiteyMouse - mostly missing.
4. sinjin - so far, so good. We disagree on points, but I don't think she's intentionally trying to drive me insane.
5. paulwhoisaghost - low impression. Others have voted for him, but i don't recall why.
6. sachertorte - delicious chocolate cake.
7. Boozahol Squid, P.I. - Mostly missing.
8. Pollux - likely Town, see above
9. Kat! - Evening poster. Reasoning seems logical to me so far. Nothing out of the ordinary or out of place. Vote for Sister Coyote (2nd) came on the earlier side (compared to everyone else) which seems like something scum would be less likely to do. Reason for voting Sister Coyote was consistent with my own suspicions. (leaning Town) 10. Storyteller - Missing
11. KidVermicious - No impression
12. Almost Human - likely Town, see above
13. zlw - likely Town, see above
14. Special Ed - whoa. Didn't even realize he was playing.
16. MHaye - No impression.
17. Pleonast - Must Die.
18. Natlaw - No impression.
19. Inner Stickler - likely Town, see above
20. Roosh - Something is vaguely rubbing me the wrong way. His reaction to Sister Coyote's lynch struck me as weird. I didn't understand why Roosh was openly patting himself on the back. It looked far too much like someone trying to take credit for the lynch of a scum. If anyone deserves credit for a quick scum ID it's zlw, who voted for Sister Coyote in post 2 or 3 for something SC said at Night. Something weird here, but I don't fully understand it.
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Post by RoOsh on May 7, 2009 11:12:15 GMT -5
Ro0sh, you're not disagreeing with my third point, you're supporting it! All those pro-scum things scum can be doing makes it harder for them to post pro-Town commentary. That was my point. :shrug: Fair enough. I just guess I just give scum more credit in thinking that it's not that hard to do it. Though, it's much easier just to be silent the whole time and ask one or two questions if you're trying to stay under the radar as scum during the Night. But the key is in numbers- you have 2-3 people be night lurkers, and then you have one or two scum be the "talky" scum- you divide your tasks and give everyone assignments, so while you have 2 or more quiet night lurkers, you have another group of people deliberately doing nothing but focusing on getting info for the Scum at night because they dont have to focus on scum discussions (usually the people w/ the crap roles or no night powers). Easy enough. And just tell the newbies to shut up and keep their heads down and talk in the scum boards. :Shrug: I dunno, I just don't like the Night Chat, because I know it's something I WOULD totally take advantage of.
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Post by RoOsh on May 7, 2009 11:18:59 GMT -5
20. Roosh - Something is vaguely rubbing me the wrong way. His reaction to Sister Coyote's lynch struck me as weird. I didn't understand why Roosh was openly patting himself on the back. It looked far too much like someone trying to take credit for the lynch of a scum. If anyone deserves credit for a quick scum ID it's zlw, who voted for Sister Coyote in post 2 or 3 for something SC said at Night. Something weird here, but I don't fully understand it. 1. Because I haven't played Mafia on these boards in a while (I just played a game over in DoMeBo), but I haven't been playing mafia for a good ... i dunno- the X-men game. Also, please see my Wiki: www.mafiagameswiki.com/mafiaWiki/Roosh. I am that humble. But actually... I was actually more pleased/ yet kinda bummed about my masonic thoughts. It's always good to know that even when I think I'm TOO paranoid, sometimes it's a good level of paranoia- as I dismissed the AH thought, but it was validated by her and turned out it was correct to think that her post DID seem awfully fishy in favor of the timing post the post for the Pollux information- good to know I wasn't reading into that but instead there WAS a real connection- even if I was dismissive of the idea. Just reinforcement for me to keep thinking that way I suppose. The SisC one :shrug: that's just icing, I thought I was giving most of the credit to AH on that one myself in my post, but I guess it didn't come across that way to ya.
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Post by sachertorte on May 7, 2009 11:19:50 GMT -5
9. Kat! - Evening poster. Reasoning seems logical to me so far. Nothing out of the ordinary or out of place. Vote for Sister Coyote (2nd) came on the earlier side (compared to everyone else) which seems like something scum would be less likely to do. Reason for voting Sister Coyote was consistent with my own suspicions. (leaning Town) I was looking at this and telling myself, "wait, that can't be right." At the time Kat! voted for Sister Coyote, she was #4 voter. Others voted for Sister Coyote prior to Kat! but unvoted after the claim, moving Kat! up to #2. So. Uh nevermind.
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Post by RoOsh on May 7, 2009 11:29:57 GMT -5
-on preview- Deletes the post as you seem to have caught this Sach on Kat.
Though, being in the middle especially if you're the votes that tip it over in favor of them being lynched (especially with this set up), that kinda gives me a better feeling than being a later or earlier vote. An Early vote could just be a shuffling vote that would look too weird to remove later on if a momentum quickly builds, and a late vote, well we all know the logic of why scum would be on the late end of things.
The middle is a far trickier and more interesting place to be.
It'd be really helpful if someone went back and gathered up all the Voting Counts and color coded them/kept them updated each Day, because I normally do that, but I honestly just don't have the time for it. (Exam tomorrow).
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Post by Pleonast on May 7, 2009 11:32:19 GMT -5
End of Night Thoughts: Much (all?) of this is repeats, but I thought it might be nice to collect these thoughts into one place. Almost Human and Pollux: Pleonast is pushing hard on the idea that these are non-confirmables and should be treated as such. I have a different view. The possibility that one or both could be scum should not be dismissed out of hand, but the structure of their roles and claims (IMO) lend weight to the idea that they are Town. - Pollux and Almost Human are connected by role. While they are not explicitly told that the other is Town, they are still connected by role. If both are scum, then I have a hard time believing that Almost Human would have claimed Groupie #2 when she did. That leaves the possibility of one being scum and one being Town, which I hold still possible, but unlikely. If find the situation unlikely for game balance reasons. - FCoD's response to my poking her has revealed that the roles were carefully constructed "for balance." The lack of alignment indicators between Pollux and Almost Human is clearly intentional. The question, of course, is what the intent is. I see two possibilities so far. The obvious one that we have already discussed, that one is town and one is scum. The less obvious one, that I would like to document is simple ambiguity hinders the Town. Nothing too earth shattering here. - While Pleonast vocally points out that they are not "masons," I am operating on the line of thought that the Groupies are 'occupying' the Mason slot for the game. That is, any claim of non-groupie Mason will constitute a counter-claim. I agree with this. I keep harping on the "not Masons" because I don't want the Town to make the mistake of considering them confirmed when they're not. They're likely Town, that's all. The problem with Ro0sh (and sachertorte, too) is that he's playing obviously pro-Town. Just as I play most pro-Town when I'm scum, and BlasterMaster as well, I think this is probably what is twinging about Ro0sh. Thus, my comment about being very cautious about him (and you) if you're still alive after Night Three. Scum should want to kill you both, if they don't there's something odd going on. I dunno, I just don't like the Night Chat, because I know it's something I WOULD totally take advantage of. Scum can do all those things during the Day as well and yet you're not afraid of talking then. And Town can do pro-Town things at Night. We should take advantage of that.
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Post by sachertorte on May 7, 2009 11:43:29 GMT -5
Well okay. I guess I was just worried that you would be pushing to lynch me for surviving Night One. I can accept that I'll be dead by Day Four. Except for the nagging feeling that stating such a policy itself has an effect on behavior.
And I'm with Pleonast on the Roosh comment. It strikes me as strange to surmise that scum will somehow be able to take better advantage of Night talking than Town. It's an unprovable, abstract statement. "If I was scum I'd totally be able to use Night Talking to kick all your asses." Uh, really? How? I don't see it.
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 7, 2009 13:39:29 GMT -5
Twenty minutes to go.
--FCOD
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Post by zlw on May 7, 2009 13:41:50 GMT -5
I've got to go retrieve my children from the bus stop @ 3pm then soccer, then ice cream, then home. Thanks a lot for making it 3pm you mean cow.
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Post by RoOsh on May 7, 2009 13:42:45 GMT -5
It's an unprovable, abstract statement. Yep. Pretty much. Just like my "It's okay for Townies to Lie, except when it's not*" Idea. That one got SUCH heat.... Heh. I loved it. I do tend to make ridiculously wild statements like that. Sometimes it's best just to smile and nod and then see what he actually DOES. (Points to the Night One Post counts). Good to see that even though I said I don't like talking at Night, apparently quite a few more ACTUALLY practice that idea.... Tsk tsk.... *Except When it's Roosh cuz that's okay** **Yes, it really did come down to that at one point- it was that hypocritical and silly. It was scummy if anyone else did it, but since I knew my alignment and the risks, it's okay if I Did it. But lynch anyone else who tried. Storyteller nearly blew a gasket. I've tried to cut back on those sorts of thoughts. But sometimes it's fun to needle him still with those sorts of things.
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