Natlaw
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Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 15:03:13 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on May 13, 2009 15:03:13 GMT -5
NETA: Of course Pleonast suggested to vote for who is scummy and then lynch his not scummy, pro-but-potentially-anti-town self.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 15:44:02 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 13, 2009 15:44:02 GMT -5
About 22 hours left in the Day. Boozy has not posted yet, so unless he comes back with a good excuse I expect to sub him out at Dusk.
New page vote count:
Pleonast (7) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler, NAF1138, Special Ed, Paul BillMc (1) - sinjin Paul (1) - Almost Human
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 16:48:27 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 13, 2009 16:48:27 GMT -5
So having my vote on someone and looking into who else might be scum is scummy now? Funny... I thought that being sure one person was scum is a reason to look elsewhere and find out who you are next most suspicious of. That's exactly what I did. After looking at it, I think it more that the timing of your voting was scummy. -you get a F.o.S. and vote from Inner Stickler and respond to that -at the end of the Day Pollux claims, Sister Coyote comes out on top -and then you unvote her and vote IS making him next-up for lynch So your vote change made a bigger difference then the rest who jumped on IS for his 'Hi. I'm lurking' post*. If scum, you could have placed your vote on him earlier and got it of Sister Coyote. But didn't because it would have seemed an OMGUS vote, which is not that highly regarded. *) Not meant dragging it up to accuse IS, but to point out that it was not really (pro-)scum behavior, but anti-town (especially with hindsight of the power role claim). Thus KidVermicious' 'that [anti-town behavior] can't fly' vote for it makes more sense than seeing it as scummy. Also how does IS unvoting you make him scummy? So if I am understanding you correctly your saying that I am suspicious because I got online to post after everyone else had already voted for him and SisC was at the head of the vote count? I can't change when I play and when I don't. I wasn't online when he made his lurker statement. And like I said, SisC being in the lead has nothing to do with the situation. I voted for the person I thought scummiest. His unvoting me pinged me because I found it sketchy that he came at me guns blazing, but when no one joined in and I countered he balked and went with a relatively safe vote. Seemed like scum trying to save SisC and hope for a bandwagon on me... and when it failed he tried to fade back into the background. Oh... and it isn't like I wasn't suspicious of him before he unvoted me. It seems like you are trying to insinuate that I was only suspicious of him for unvoting me and admitting to lurking... those were just the straws blah blah blah camels back.... you get the point... Look here I clearly outline my suspicion before he unvotes me and before SisC is in the lead.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 18:51:01 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 13, 2009 18:51:01 GMT -5
You know, my vote and case against Paul was mainly because he pinged me a bit and I didn't see the point of talking about Pleo.
It's quite possible I'll vote for someone else toMorrow but I really wanted to get something different down.
I didn't see the point of voting for a lurker because they'll be dealt with via mod and Paul stood out for being active on Day 1 and then falling off the face of the earth Day 2.
Now he's back and he's addressed my points. I won't say I'm no longer suspicious of him but the suspicion has lessened a fair bit.
The one good thing about this Pleo lynch is that knowing his allignment should give us some insight into everyone else hopefully. And, of course, once he's gone we can focus on finding scum.
Um that's two things....carry on!
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 18:58:45 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 18:58:45 GMT -5
I've been thinking about Pleonast actually quite a bit lately and his play style while studying for this exam and a thought hit me. There is actually ONE conceivable way that his role/behavior makes sense. Basically the one way where If i were the Mod, I'd design this sort of a role for this specific character. So Pleonast, if YOU ARE who I think you are.... IS there anything I can do to help dissuade you that i am not scum? Only because if you ARE Town and this person, I'd like to help you out, but I don't think my dying would be the best way to help out the town. I mean, it's no big loss and all either. But still, if there's ANYTHING I Can do to help persuade you I am not the best choice to use your ability on that'd be nice. Basically- are you ONE person or TWO? Are your Initials B&S*? That is the only Role from the canon that I can think of a suitable power for where your play style so far would actually be a Townie playing style to make (and possible confirm you as Town). Of course, this person could also be Scum as well from the Canon, but it could go either way. So yeah, Pleo, I guess that's the two questions- If those are your initials, then can I help talk you out of picking me, as I'm sure there are better targets- but if you're goal is to nail scum then I WON'T be the right choice. But if you're not that character, then yeah, I've got nothing to really explain your play style- other than yeah, it's really scummy. *Bah, who needs a magic bag: Pleo: are you Bait and Switch? Cuz that would be a GREAT way to design that role. PART TWO: NOT PLEO STUFF: The other thought I've had, if Pleo is not this person, I'm worried about the Masons actually- I really hope there are more than 2 of them. Because if there are not, and there are only 2 of them, I could easily see each of them playing one of the 2 roles above and being a 3rd party or a scummy group trying to blend in. Though B&S were not part of the ELE, they were henchmen, and since I can't say where the henchmen stand in this game, I'm not sure about where they would fall according to sides. But that's something i'd want to consider- if perhaps there ARE no masons, or if there is a 3rd party group that's claiming to be a Mason.... It's something that worries me, and should be checked up on by the endgame (I'm assuming that hopefully by the endgame we won't have all the masons alive, and so at least one of them will be able to prove who they are. Or if we do have them all alive, then well... I just hope I'm wrong about my thoughts). But just two things to consider.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 19:21:49 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 13, 2009 19:21:49 GMT -5
Roosh - that is a really cool idea!
If he is indeed what you suggest then it would make more sense to pick a groupie as we're already out and it would somewhat confirm the other. It'd piss me off not to be in the game anymore because it rocks but part of me's dying to see the spoiled thread so I wouldn't sulk too much if I'm switched.
(and Roosh - I can see why you're so good at making up claims - I'll probably never trust anything you say ever now)
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 19:23:50 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 13, 2009 19:23:50 GMT -5
Almost forgot...we've already said there are more than two groupies, we just haven't said how many there are yet.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 19:43:13 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 19:43:13 GMT -5
Almost forgot...we've already said there are more than two groupies, we just haven't said how many there are yet. You'll have to pardon me if I take that with a grain of salt though now.... Unless a dead 3rd one shows up. Then maybe. Though the groupie idea is nice, I'm more interested to see how the voting fell before and after this idea of mine. Because I'm sure I'm not the first one who's thought of this idea, I'm just the first to verbalize it here. So- that's something to look into- How did people vote toDay and how are they voting? Who's been wishy washy, and who's committed to the lynch, etc.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 19:50:54 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 13, 2009 19:50:54 GMT -5
I've skimmed the more recent posts, but my brain is mushy from the twelve-hour days I've been working, so I'm not thinking deeply. A few comments:
Total Lost, why did you unvote BillMC (nee MiteyMouse)? Subbing the player doesn't change the role's alignment.
Ro0sh, we don't have any Masons, yet! They can't confirm each other, so we shouldn't assume they're Town. vote Ro0sh for this and previous misinterpretations.
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 20:34:34 GMT -5
Post by zlw on May 13, 2009 20:34:34 GMT -5
So I take that as an answer to Roosh's question?
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Gir!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 21:29:54 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 21:29:54 GMT -5
I have to apologize, I've been slacking off. Not deliberately lurking, but rather coming in, reading another bunch of Pleo-related posts, and then going "blah!" as my brain goes on strike.
I could quite happily vote for Pleo because I want it all to go away, but not liking the Pleo talk doesn't make him scummy. I'm going to try and actually read the full Day Two, including the Pleo talk, and then vote.
If you say Pleo over and over again, it makes your brain explode. Try it!
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Gir!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 21:56:05 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 21:56:05 GMT -5
Okay, I didn’t make it even quarter way through Day Two, but I’m throwing a vote in right now for Roosh.
Why?
He pinged me with the exchange about sachertorte’s non-vote for Pleo, accusing him of being “trigger happy” when he votes right after saying his vote won’t count. He comes back later to ask why sach thinks his vote won’t count but why doesn’t he ask that in his first response instead of attacking?
So, I did a quick look at all Roosh’s posts toDay to see if there was anything else there, and posts 184 and 187 together bother me immensely. In 184, he’s talking about ‘the two masons’ (rough paraphrase) and “if there is a 3rd party group that's claiming to be a Mason” when the groupies haven’t claimed to be Masons, and have admitted they can’t confirm each other’s alignment. And then in both 184 and 187, he’s talking about how a dead Mason will confirm the alignment, when they really won’t. It feels like he’s trying to both cast suspicion on the groupies and at the same time, set them up to all be cleared when/if a single groupie is proven Town.
Going back to read more of Day Two. May change the vote, if I find anything that feels more bothersome.
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Gir!
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What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 21:57:00 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 21:57:00 GMT -5
Um, maybe I should make that a vote for Roosh.
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Gir!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:12:37 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 22:12:37 GMT -5
I'm not going to make a full claim until my lynch is inevitable. The Town has nothing to gain by me revealing before then. Either lynch me or not, I claimed as early as possible to avoid too-long discussion about me. Pleo, I think your lynch is inevitable. Are you going to full claim? I can change my vote to you, if you think that's necessary. Yeah, I know I said I didn't want to vote for Pleo just to get rid of him, but I will do so to get a full claim from him.
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Gir!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:36:14 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 22:36:14 GMT -5
Pleonast, you're up to something. There was a 3rd option for you the whole time besides Get lynched or get night killed. This game has an out- You could choose to be mod killed w/in 2 Days. This suggestion really sucks, speaking as someone who recently had someone deliberately get themselves modkilled in another got. I bet the other players weren't happy about it either.
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Gir!
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:36:50 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on May 13, 2009 22:36:50 GMT -5
"in another game" even.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:44:40 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 22:44:40 GMT -5
Ro0sh, we don't have any Masons, yet! They can't confirm each other, so we shouldn't assume they're Town. vote Ro0shfor this and previous misinterpretations. Did you not read my last post? I just SAID I don't trust them and don't think they should be confirmed as masons until one of them is dead..... But thanks for the vote of confidence. So you're voting for me because I don't trust the masons as Town yet, but because I'm using the WORD mason- I ought to be lynched? Lynching on Semantics are we?
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:47:06 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 13, 2009 22:47:06 GMT -5
Oh fer chrissakes.
Vote Kat
It annoys me that Pleo did it but I'm not going to vote for him under the circumstances. But you following it up just strikes me as bad.
As far as I'm concerned, until a person comes outright and says "Hey, I'm actually a Mason!"* I'm going to treat myself and AH as probable masons. Or at least mason stand-ins. Variation on a mason. Take your pick. But this nit-pick squabbling over "they're not actually masons and to refer to them as masons even though that's what it seems like they could be despite having a weirder set-up than normal is scummy" is dumb. And I don't like it.
*To be clear, not asking anybody to actually do this unless they're on the lynch block. I don't want any unnecessary claims to happen.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 22:51:21 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 22:51:21 GMT -5
This suggestion really sucks, speaking as someone who recently had someone deliberately get themselves modkilled in another got. I bet the other players weren't happy about it either. Trust me, I know how much it sucks. I subbed into a game once where the Town basically chose to commit suicide of all the non confirmed roles and vote me in order to out me as the last scum. There was nothing I could do to prevent it, and there was no way to defend against it. I REALLY hate the strategy. But I found Pleonast's initial reasoning for wanting to be lynched EQUALLY distasteful and shitty honestly. It felt like he didn't want to play a recruitable role, and was basically trying to get himself lynched so that he could still win by the laziest condition possible. That to me feels against the spirit of the game. Why bother to sign up for a game if you don't like the way you have to play your role, you just try to come up with an excuse to be lynched? That's why I'm thinking that Pleo's GOT to be lying about his motivations for wanting to be lynched. I don't think it's the reasons that he gave on Day 1. So thusly the other ideas in my head- Scum Bomb, Scum trying to play WIFOM, or the newest idea above Townie or 3rd Party Vig who is going to try to basically pull a JSexton Crazy Townie to try to confirm himself as Town by avoiding a lynch of himself. Any of those reasonings are better than a Selfish player that wants to be lynched so that he can "win with the Town" right now because he fears being recruited.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 23:00:14 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 23:00:14 GMT -5
He pinged me with the exchange about sachertorte’s non-vote for Pleo, accusing him of being “trigger happy” when he votes right after saying his vote won’t count. He comes back later to ask why sach thinks his vote won’t count but why doesn’t he ask that in his first response instead of attacking? Sach pretty much answers it in his reply. To my defense, the Day just started, and HIS SECOND LINE was a vote. Followed up with words. I focused on that, and then just gave a sarcastic reply. Then got his reply, and then started to think about it. Plus, if I started off the Day by saying my vote doesn't count- would you just believe me if it hadn't happened before? Hence then I wanted to get the Mod Confirmation.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 13, 2009 23:23:03 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 13, 2009 23:23:03 GMT -5
*To be clear, not asking anybody to actually do this unless they're on the lynch block. I don't want any unnecessary claims to happen. Well, if there ARE masons out there, it would be nice to know as then I definitely wouldn't be regarding you guys as the mason, and all the more eager to find out WHAT you guys are. So a Verifiable Mason claim would at least help me in that at least then I know for sure you guys aren't masons. Because right now you're treating yourself as Masons. I don't mind calling you Masons- but to me Masons don't mean Automatically Town (BatmanMafia Anyone? Jeez doesn't anyone use Dirty Masons or do I have to make up another game with that in there? You people need to be more paranoid of this shit.). It's just if no one else will counterclaim masons, then I will continue to think of you guys as the closest things to Masons (a group of players that know one another and can back up said verification in some way)- that doesn't mean you couldn't be 3rd party Masons though. On a matter of principle, I don't like leaving intact Mason groups to endgame, at some point someone should verify them to check if at least one of them is Town so we can rest a little easier (either by death or by trusted cop). It's just smart play. Doesn't mean we should automatically be out trying to lynch a Mason on Day 6 or something though when we're close to lylo, but it's always something to think about. But until someone else counterclaims you on that one..... :Shrug: I see no harm in calling you that word. Just don't assume Masons= Town. Because that's stupid and getting Lazy, people. At some point we're going to need more information on them, but for now, I'm fine with my terms for them. However if other people REALLY have a problem with that term, just let me know and give me a suitable generic name that I can use from game to game to refer to them.
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 5:37:24 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on May 14, 2009 5:37:24 GMT -5
Total Lost, why did you unvote BillMC (nee MiteyMouse)? Subbing the player doesn't change the role's alignment. When a vote is based mostly on lurking and saying "I'll re-read and post more" and failing to do so - I would think it only fair to unvote when that player is subbed. But I agree with you that it has no bearing on the alignement.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 6:32:14 GMT -5
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on May 14, 2009 6:32:14 GMT -5
I live. Without having caught up in the slightest, I feel I should say that I'm highly disappointed in people voting the RoOsh off without giving me the chance to start the bandwagon. Will return with squidnalysis.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 7:17:00 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 14, 2009 7:17:00 GMT -5
OK. vote Pleonast
Because if he's a Bomb, I might as well be a buffer. I hate this lynch, but I think I've said enough about it and the train seems to have left the station.
I need to get back to my long-neglected discussion of Day One, which when we left off had led me to vote for an uncounterclaimed investigator. Heh.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 7:17:55 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on May 14, 2009 7:17:55 GMT -5
Total Lost, why did you unvote BillMC (nee MiteyMouse)? Subbing the player doesn't change the role's alignment. When a vote is based mostly on lurking and saying "I'll re-read and post more" and failing to do so - I would think it only fair to unvote when that player is subbed. But I agree with you that it has no bearing on the alignement. I'd say this post pretty neatly illustrates the problem with voting for lurkers.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 8:21:54 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 14, 2009 8:21:54 GMT -5
unvote BillMc
vote Pleo
Roosh, why do you keep saying that the death of one groupie will confirm the alignment of the others when the groupies themselves have said this is not the case? You say you're calling them masons because you don't know what else to call them and then doing a bunch of hand-waving about how they could be third-party masons or evil masons or whatever. Howse about you just call them GROUPIES, hmmmmm?
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 8:25:01 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 14, 2009 8:25:01 GMT -5
Vote count:
Pleonast (9) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler, NAF1138, Special Ed, Paul, Storyteller, sinjin Roosh (2) - Pleonast, Roosh Paul (1) - Almost Human Kat (1) - Pollux
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 8:55:56 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 14, 2009 8:55:56 GMT -5
I think Roosh is assuming that when one of the groupies dies they may be revealed something like Groupie #1 Town Mason... or something... which would prove that they are masons....
I think that's what he's getting at anyway... I dont see the whole point though... that's spending a lot of time speculating about role.... and we want to figure out alignments, not roles.
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RoOsh
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 9:25:10 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 14, 2009 9:25:10 GMT -5
I think Roosh is assuming that when one of the groupies dies they may be revealed something like Groupie #1 Town Mason... or something... which would prove that they are masons.... This. I want to know they're who they say they are at least. If there are GROUPIES even in the game that'd be nice to know. Again- highly paranoid now that I remember Bait and Switch. I still think that's what Pleonast's role is. I just hope if it's the case he does the the right thing rather than just kill off someone pro-town (a la JSexton and the ChiaBingoManager from Asylum Lane- there's a far back going reference for ya... my very first game of Mafia). I still say even if I'm not around- we need to look at who delayed in voting for Pleo, and who DID NOT vote for pleo at all. Even if scum want pleo dead, it's foolish of all them to try to get on that bandwagon and risk injury. So that's something to look at during the Night/Day. I'll pretty much be gone until my exam is done tonight, so I won't be able to come back before Dusk. So good luck guys, and hopefully things work out for the best. If Pleo is a Bomb (since I seem to be number one on his shit list... terrible reasoning I must say) at least if I die, it's not biggie. Just stick with the voting analysis, and make sure you check the Whores* I mean groupies at some point. /oog fun fact *That's why I don't really like using the term Groupie- it makes me think of whores (only because I have a female friend who REALLY REALLY hates being called a groupie and points out how they're trashy whores. She's not a groupie, but a roadie or friend of the band depending on the show. There's a difference as she loves to point out. Call her a Groupie, and you're bound to get a black eye.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 9:36:06 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 14, 2009 9:36:06 GMT -5
I still say even if I'm not around- we need to look at who delayed in voting for Pleo, and who DID NOT vote for pleo at all. Even if scum want pleo dead, it's foolish of all them to try to get on that bandwagon and risk injury. So that's something to look at during the Night/Day. (snipped) Nice. So now it's suspicious not to vote for Pleo. It's also suspicious to vote for him late. Forget the fact not everyone thinks he's necessarily the best person to lynch. Forget the fact some people waited to vote for him so they didn't start any countdowns or for other reasons. I'm not saying people shouldn't be looked at for who they voted for and when and why - of course they should. But you seem to be setting up those who didn't vote him all ready for tomorrow. Might be a good idea to wait and see what Pleo actually is first. Your Bait and Switch theory while very cool may well be wrong.
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