RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
Posts: 284
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 10:15:42 GMT -5
Post by RoOsh on May 14, 2009 10:15:42 GMT -5
Nice. So now it's suspicious not to vote for Pleo. It's also suspicious to vote for him late. Forget the fact not everyone thinks he's necessarily the best person to lynch. Forget the fact some people waited to vote for him so they didn't start any countdowns or for other reasons. I'm not saying people shouldn't be looked at for who they voted for and when and why - of course they should. But you seem to be setting up those who didn't vote him all ready for tomorrow. Oh honestly.... I'm saying be suspicious of people who voted for him late, people who didn't vote for him, people who said they'd vote for him but never do vote for him, and people who voted for him early. Hell, I think you should be paranoid about Sach even. For all I know he could be scum and one of his buddies might have done that to him to give him a cover. DO NOT TRUST ANYONE. Everyone's got a reasoning to look guilty, and it can be spun ANY WAY you want to spin it. Everyone's got an excuse and a problem. I'm just calling for the fact that tomorrow we should be trying to see who voted when and what's going on. Only Storyteller today's really been going through the voting patterns and trying to analyze them. It's something I like to do, but I don't have the free time to do it anytime for next few weeks. And I notice that when I die, usually people stop analyzing votes for a while with the charts and the graph and all (The DoMeBo Game... god it took a while for the town to get back on track in that one... Damn Winston and his claims!), and it's annoying to me then as a Spectator. So yeah- if you are alive today and not Me- you're a suspect to me. Plain and simple. I will be paranoid about everyone's actions in the game, and though one thing may not be the damning thing, the key is to see behaviors from toDay's lynch, YesterDay's lynch, and then the lynches to follow. Keep everything in mind, and build cases of suspicion. That's generally how mafia works. To simply vote someone tomorrow solely on their actions for JUST the Pleo lynch though? That's a flimsy case, AH, and I don't think anyone's going to try that (I hope). But if someone's not voting for pleo toDay, yet said they would yesterDay, and also voted in an unusually timed way for SisterC lynch, then yeah- that's a suspicious person I'd think. And definitely worth a second look.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 10:18:52 GMT -5
Post by Almost Human on May 14, 2009 10:18:52 GMT -5
Fair enough. Now you've clarified I get it - it didn't seem as though that was the point you were making originally.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 10:25:07 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 14, 2009 10:25:07 GMT -5
Oh honestly.... I'm saying be suspicious of people who voted for him late, people who didn't vote for him, people who said they'd vote for him but never do vote for him, and people who voted for him early. Hell, I think you should be paranoid about Sach even. For all I know he could be scum and one of his buddies might have done that to him to give him a cover. This is interesting. Why would you think that sach's vote was taken away by scum? I think I am the only game designer to use vote stealing (prior to this game) and I have never used it as a scum power before because it's way too powerful to let the scum take someone's vote away. What do you know?
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 10:47:39 GMT -5
Post by Pleonast on May 14, 2009 10:47:39 GMT -5
Ro0sh, we don't have any Masons, yet! They can't confirm each other, so we shouldn't assume they're Town. vote Ro0shfor this and previous misinterpretations. Did you not read my last post? I just SAID I don't trust them and don't think they should be confirmed as masons until one of them is dead..... But thanks for the vote of confidence. So you're voting for me because I don't trust the masons as Town yet, but because I'm using the WORD mason- I ought to be lynched? Lynching on Semantics are we? (Note, I had not read your last post before post my previous post.) I'm happy to lynch on semantics when it hints at ulterior motives. Even though you may use "Mason" in a loose sense that includes non-Town roles, I think the rest of us use Mason to mean "several players who can mutually confirm each others' Towniness". The fact that you keep pushing the Mason angle on the Groupie indicates a motive of you wanting the rest of us to trust them. But we have no reason to trust them--their claims are little better than a vanilla Townie claim. Any information we gain from lynching a Groupie can not help us in confirming them, since they themselves say they can't do that. The only info we can get from a dead Groupie is that they're lying. I REALLY hate the strategy. But I found Pleonast's initial reasoning for wanting to be lynched EQUALLY distasteful and shitty honestly. It felt like he didn't want to play a recruitable role, and was basically trying to get himself lynched so that he could still win by the laziest condition possible. That to me feels against the spirit of the game. Why bother to sign up for a game if you don't like the way you have to play your role, you just try to come up with an excuse to be lynched? I feel that playing to be lynched instead of recruited is perfectly valid. I cannot be unilaterally lynched, unlike a mod-kill which other players cannot prevent. I think Roosh is assuming that when one of the groupies dies they may be revealed something like Groupie #1 Town Mason... or something... which would prove that they are masons.... But that result would not confirm the other Groupie, who might be "Groupie #2 Scum Groupie". That result would be consistent with what the late Groupie #1 knew. As far as I'm concerned, until a person comes outright and says "Hey, I'm actually a Mason!"* I'm going to treat myself and AH as probable masons. Or at least mason stand-ins. Variation on a mason. Take your pick. But this nit-pick squabbling over "they're not actually masons and to refer to them as masons even though that's what it seems like they could be despite having a weirder set-up than normal is scummy" is dumb. And I don't like it. This is really suspicious. You're asking us to trust that you're confirmed when we have no reason to. I'd vote for you (again), but I think Ro0sh is more suspicious at this point. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I'm not sure I'll have time to post again before the end of the Day, so I'll post my PM now. Dead BowieYou are David Bowie, except dead. Sadly, you were murdered in the 1980s. Everything after that is by... some other guy. You used to be in the Evil League of Evil, but they got tired of the stench of death that follows you and kicked you out. Now you just try to keep a low profile. Alignment: Town Win Condition: You win when all non-Town roles are dead. Powers: 1) You are dead, and as such you are immune to being killed [...details omitted...]
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:21:32 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 14, 2009 11:21:32 GMT -5
Uh, Where's the part about possibly being recruited?
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:34:06 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 14, 2009 11:34:06 GMT -5
I note here that your supposed PM does NOT mention specifically that you are immune to being night-killed. If you turn out to be just a Town Scotsman who is immune to either one day lynch or one night-kill I am going to be very out of sorts with you Pleo.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:36:10 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 14, 2009 11:36:10 GMT -5
Get in line. I'm already out of sorts with Pleonast. I see nothing about being vulnerable to recruitment.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:36:42 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 14, 2009 11:36:42 GMT -5
Grrrrr and I hit post too soon. On preview sachertorte already addressed my second concern. Third concern; where's the bit about someone who can save you from recruitment?
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:43:27 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 14, 2009 11:43:27 GMT -5
You know what? This sucks. I have no idea what Pleonast was thinking, and now its too late to stop his lynch. Furthermore, the way he has played, we shouldn't stop the lynch anyway. But I'm pretty darn sure Pleonast is Town now. Unless there is something he snipped out of his role, I see nothing about recruitment. I'm left assuming that Pleonast thinks he is vulnerable to recruitment since he used to be in the ELE. I think Pleonast seriously misread his role PM.
And of course Pleonast isn't available anymore...
Arrgh!
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:54:45 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on May 14, 2009 11:54:45 GMT -5
I don't think he's necessarily town Sacher. I've been a Town Scotsman and a Scum Scotsman in recent games. Seems to me if you're town you try to get scum or SK to attempt to night-kill you. If you're scum you try to get town to lynch you. At least that's the way I played it. So, how did Pleo play it again? Got to go, will miss day end.
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Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:57:16 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 14, 2009 11:57:16 GMT -5
My first thought on reading Pleo's role PM was "Why does he think he's particularly vulnerable to recruitment?" I can't see anything on the basis of that to suggest he would be more vulnerable than, say, I am.
The only justification I can see is that since the PM says he was thrown out of the ELE, that it would be easy for him to be drawn back. On the other hand, why would they want a corpse that raises a stink at their meetings? That's why he got thrown out, or so the PM says.
No, I think this is a misjudgement based on a misreading, and the lynch is going to hurt Town for no gain.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:57:50 GMT -5
Post by sachertorte on May 14, 2009 11:57:50 GMT -5
I have additional comments on other players:
special ed: His lack of presence is troubling, but his statement about relying on others to do analysis and stuff is making me think "Town" more than "Scum." It's a very scummy statement, and it has generated some scrutiny (as it should), but if anything special ed's "scum tell" is that he plays very cleanly. I can't imagine a scummy special ed posting what he did. As scum, he would have filtered that statement as too controversial and eye-catching. As town, he probably doesn't care. Of course there is the old mantra "scum would do that just to fool us," which is possible, but I'm on the side where such a gambit isn't worth the risk. It's not like I definitively think he is Town, only leaning that way, and bringing up such a scummy statement will garner more criticism than scum would want to attract.
paul: For similar reasons I lean Town on Paul. His brazenly asking FCoD what minimum effort he needs to extend to avoid mod-kill is on the surface rather scuzzy. But I imagine a Day Talking scum would ask these questions where Town would not see it. Again, this is only a light indicator; nothing definitive.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 11:58:02 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 14, 2009 11:58:02 GMT -5
Two hours to go.
Vote count:
Pleonast (9) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler, NAF1138, Special Ed, Paul, Storyteller, sinjin Roosh (2) - Pleonast, Kat! Paul (1) - Almost Human Kat! (1) - Pollux
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 12:02:34 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on May 14, 2009 12:02:34 GMT -5
And this is why I wanted Pleonast to post this a lot earlier. Why the hell couldn't he have posted what he just did at the beginning of the Day? How the whole situation has gone down bothers me to no end. This is really suspicious. You're asking us to trust that you're confirmed when we have no reason to. I'd vote for you (again), but I think Ro0sh is more suspicious at this point. Misrepresent much? I said that until somebody comes forth that actually IS a mason, it's fairly likely that we're a variation on a mason group. As such, simply referring to us as "mason" until other evidence presents itself isn't wrong in my opinion. I don't think nitpicking over what word is used to refer to us is a train of thought people should be following. Furthermore, I made it very clear that I can't verify alignment with my current knowledge about how my role works when I first claimed. I'm not saying people should 100% trust I'm town, but people shouldn't get all up at arms for referring to me or AH as a mason.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 12:21:22 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 14, 2009 12:21:22 GMT -5
I am actually at a bit of a loss for words. The only think I can think of is that Pleo totally made up the PM he just posted, it's the only thing that makes sense because I don't see him making that kind of misinterpritation.
On the other hand, we should still lynch him, really we have to, he is being crazy anti-town, but I feel weird about it.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 12:57:49 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 14, 2009 12:57:49 GMT -5
One hour to go!
--FCOD
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Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 13:16:05 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on May 14, 2009 13:16:05 GMT -5
I can only repeat that that role PM doesn't seems indicate he's particularly in danger of being recruited, or that someone can prevent it, or that he is a miller. He already told us those things, so they can't be in the details he didn't disclose.
So either he is 1) grossly misreading his PM 2) or he was lying when he claimed 3) or he's lying now
It just increases the likelihood of him being a bomb of some sort, but not much else than lynching we can do. It might be prudent for Inner Stickler to unvote if you're still are around, just in case he can kill on lynch and pick his target. Town investigator would be the obvious choice (if your are, etc).
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Merestil Haye
FGM
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[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 13:44:55 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 14, 2009 13:44:55 GMT -5
I had to take a break for tea and contemplation, trying to digest this revelation (along with the food.)
I can't make up my mind whether Pleo has played the lot of us, or whether he's simply misread the PM. If the latter is true, then the lynch, while inevitable, squanders some of the credit that we gained by lynching an ELE member Yesterday. If the former is true, then we have to step carefully to avoid a disaster.
I said earlier that I would vote for Pleonast. I'm not sure whether there's any point in it now; having said that, the lynch is not only inevitable, but necessary in order to avoid most of Tomorrow (and maybe future days) being dominated by talking about the same old thing.
So with a heavy heart, Vote: Pleonast .
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 13:47:23 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 14, 2009 13:47:23 GMT -5
12 minutes!
Vote count:
Pleonast (10) - KidV, Roosh, Natlaw, Inner Stickler, NAF1138, Special Ed, Paul, Storyteller, sinjin, MHaye Roosh (2) - Pleonast, Kat! Paul (1) - Almost Human Kat! (1) - Pollux
--FCOD
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Day Two
May 14, 2009 14:00:51 GMT -5
Post by The Real FCOD on May 14, 2009 14:00:51 GMT -5
Okiedokie.
--FCOD
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