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Post by zlw on May 17, 2009 21:40:09 GMT -5
And while I agree with getting Pleo I think the person who is the scummiest is the one trying her hardest to lynch me for Days. It is clear either me and Inner Stickler are lying which in that case town does not have any investigator roles, or we are telling the truth and in that case sinjin has been proven to be anti-town no less than Pleonast. Since I think Pleonast is a third party we can just ignore right now, I clearly see sinjin as scum. So OMGUS whatever be damned I want to hit scum.
vote sinjin
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 17, 2009 21:54:49 GMT -5
Real life has been particularly intrusive these last few days. I thought with summer I'd have more time but it's not looking that way. The upshot of all this was that I completely missed the Night and never investigated anyone. I screwed up and I'm sorry.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 17, 2009 21:55:41 GMT -5
Well my downfall is I check the board even when I cannot stick around, so in the future so you can properly deduce what I am up to I will use the idlemafia login when I am unable to type so I won't appear to be on. That should clear that up, still doesn't explain how you think the tandem of town investigative journalists are scum when clearly if we were lying the towns would have counter claimed long ago. You are smudging shit worse than a two year old with a diaper full of "play dough". Your roles aren't traditional town roles. It is possible that there are no roles townside to counter you. It's also possible that one or both of you are telling the truth about your powers and that you are both scum and one of you really can do what you say you can do... but not for town.
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Post by sinjin on May 17, 2009 22:06:37 GMT -5
Well my downfall is I check the board even when I cannot stick around, so in the future so you can properly deduce what I am up to I will use the idlemafia login when I am unable to type so I won't appear to be on. That should clear that up, still doesn't explain how you think the tandem of town investigative journalists are scum when clearly if we were lying the towns would have counter claimed long ago. You are smudging shit worse than a two year old with a diaper full of "play dough". Ok, this is just silly. You admit coming on line to check the board and don't think it's worth, what 30 seconds, to quote your Dawn Pm to let us know the result of your investigation? Even after it's asked for? And to prevent this from happening in the future your going to lurk. Cool. My vote stands.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on May 18, 2009 3:02:42 GMT -5
The Sinjin/zlw-exchange is a bit over my head. I often have a browser open with me logged in - even thought I'm doing something else and not really reading/writing. A null-tell to me...
I know Sinjin can play agressiv - but I don't think she has played scummy in this game. But if zlw thinks so - I would prefer to see a "case" based on her posts before I consider to change my mind.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 18, 2009 7:01:14 GMT -5
And while I agree with getting Pleo I think the person who is the scummiest is the one trying her hardest to lynch me for Days. It is clear either me and Inner Stickler are lying which in that case town does not have any investigator roles, or we are telling the truth and in that case sinjin has been proven to be anti-town no less than Pleonast. Since I think Pleonast is a third party we can just ignore right now, I clearly see sinjin as scum. So OMGUS whatever be damned I want to hit scum. vote sinjinThe above simply does not make sense. Even if I stipulate for the sake of argument that you and Inner Stickler are both telling the truth, it does not follow that "sinjin has been proven to be anti-town." It just follows that sinjin is wrong, which is not necessarily (though of course it might be) the same as anti-Town. Nothing has been "proven" vis-a-vis sinjin's alignment (nor indeed has anything in particular been proven regarding Pleonast, though the evidence that he is anti-Town is overwhelming).
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 18, 2009 7:02:17 GMT -5
Meanwhile, zlw, are you a tracker or a watcher? IE, can you tell: (1) what your target does; (2) what is done to your target; or (3) both?
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 7:04:24 GMT -5
Oh believe me if he was doing something interesting it would have been more important but as it stood he did absolutely nothing. My case is solid against sinjin and that is town has no investigators if you believe her. She can stay aggressive, but in this case since Day 1 Night 1 she has been on my ass, her refusal to use any intelligence when in fact I am certain she has loads makes her scum mucking up the joint. Just laying the groundwork for if something is found out she and her buddies can use this and weaken the case against them.
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 7:07:37 GMT -5
Your roles aren't traditional town roles. It is possible that there are no roles townside to counter you. It's also possible that one or both of you are telling the truth about your powers and that you are both scum and one of you really can do what you say you can do... but not for town. Yes they traditional are tracker and cop. Both standard roles, only tweak I know of is when we both choose the same target we get more goods.
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 7:11:21 GMT -5
Meanwhile, zlw, are you a tracker or a watcher? IE, can you tell: (1) what your target does; (2) what is done to your target; or (3) both? Female News Anchor You are one half of the town's news team. Your in-depth reports always seem to captivate your viewers, and your ratings are topped by no-one. However, you need your co-anchor to realize your maximum potential. Alignment: Town Win Condition: You win when all non-Town roles are dead. Powers: 1) Every Night, submit a target to follow. Using your keen journalism skills, you will learn who, if anyone, your target targeted that Night. 2) Your co-anchor is out there somewhere. (snipped)
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 18, 2009 7:12:05 GMT -5
So let me ask again: do you learn what Pleo does, what is done to Pleo, or both?
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 18, 2009 7:12:46 GMT -5
Gotcha. Thanks.
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 7:16:22 GMT -5
Here is what he did.
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 7:21:21 GMT -5
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Post by sinjin on May 18, 2009 9:05:11 GMT -5
Sorry if I'm playing too aggressively. zlw, I've never said I thought both you and IS are scum. I've suggested that it's possible that while one of you is town one of you may be scum. I actually think this would be a very cool game mechanic especially with the mysterious option two that optimizes your results if you work together. I think it's pretty clear that you are the one I think may be scum. BTW, you had this to say about your Night one investigation: When I first read that I assumed that your investigation failed. Can you clarify your results?
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 9:19:49 GMT -5
The reason I didn't clarify is because I wanted to keep the scum guessing on what either IS or I did. I realize that may be a mistake but I thought it would be best. Since that is out of the bag NAF sat around doing nothing out of the ordinary. How about toNight IS pick me. Sound good IS? Be a waste of an investigation but sinjin apparently thinks my PM is fraudulent. Maybe an easier way would be Inner Stickler was your PM along the lines of mine? If not investigate me, if so I think we can rest assured we are both town. I can read it no other way than both of us being town.
And you're right on option 2, it basically allows us more power if we can ever get together on a target we both get more results. I was trying to arrange that but Inner Stickler had real life demands (which I totally understand) we cannot talk off board, we had to find one another in here, but now nothing is stopping us from picking a target together to mine whatever we can from them.
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Post by BillMc on May 18, 2009 9:25:08 GMT -5
At least you did manage to watch Pleo, unlike the spooky mini where I kept being redirected to watch NAF snoring every night.
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Post by zlw on May 18, 2009 9:27:31 GMT -5
To clarify a bit more, I wanted to keep the scum guessing if they find out I am the weaker party (female news co-anchor = weaker = FCoH is sexist ) they would concentrate on taking out Inner Stickler, which would be bad since he all by himself can find alignment. I was hoping to have them coin flip on who to take out and possibly take me out which would be better for town than IS. Since me by myself cannot do much unless I follow someone that actually does something that is. '
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Post by Pleonast on May 18, 2009 10:16:53 GMT -5
Well, looks like I'm frozen: Just to test the voting part, vote Ro0sh
It'll be interesting to see if this condition kills me (or not), or if sach's death was unrelated to his condition.
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Post by The Real FCOD on May 18, 2009 10:23:38 GMT -5
Vote count:
Pleonast (5) - Storyteller, KidVermicious, BillMc, Almost Human, Paul zlw (1) - sinjin sinjin (1) - zlw
--FCOD
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 18, 2009 11:19:05 GMT -5
I'm also wondering if we have normal NKs. Perhaps sachertorte's death was the previous Night's scum kill but it's delayed till dusk for some reason. He was also unable to vote yesterday, wasn't he? I wonder if that's related to this in some fashion. I was wondering the same thing for a while; we've just seen a role that imposes a vote block as a side-effect of their action. The idea that Pleo had chosen Sach as a surrogate lynchee did cross my mind (after the Dusk scene) but Pleo is the player who's vote will not count Today (already confirmed by his posting a vote that FCoH ignored) so either it's not Pleo, or Pleo targeted himself with his second use of the power. If the latter is true, why did he not target himself with the first use? The simplest hypothesis is that it's another player's power that is causing this.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 18, 2009 11:32:22 GMT -5
This is a frustrating game. Why is it frustrating if no one dies in the morning? If anything that just gives us another day before LyLo. Unless of course people are being recruited or something like that, but still. No deaths usually is a good thing. Roosh, I'm surprised at you., but only a little. For a townsperson, no deaths on Night 1 or 2 means reduced information yields. The vote analysis you ask for? Won't tell us as much as it would if we knew the alignment of four people. Really we know as much now (corporately) as we would at the dawn of Day 2 if the ELE had succeeded in the Nightkill. We have to wait longer for the own to emerge from the mob mentality stage and start actually thinking. Storyteller (if Town) is finding his inability to get to grips with the game and its players frustrating. If he's an ELE member, of course, his frustration is that his side (apparently) failed twice. Or (knowing Storyteller) he got recruited last Night, and this is as close as he can come to telling us so.
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Post by sinjin on May 18, 2009 13:32:50 GMT -5
He was also unable to vote yesterday, wasn't he? I wonder if that's related to this in some fashion. I was wondering the same thing for a while; we've just seen a role that imposes a vote block as a side-effect of their action. The idea that Pleo had chosen Sach as a surrogate lynchee did cross my mind (after the Dusk scene) but Pleo is the player who's vote will not count Today (already confirmed by his posting a vote that FCoH ignored) so either it's not Pleo, or Pleo targeted himself with his second use of the power. If the latter is true, why did he not target himself with the first use? The simplest hypothesis is that it's another player's power that is causing this. Well, Pleo could have targeted sachertorte with a freeze-ray Night 1 and then when sache conveniently ended up dead at dusk yesterDay decided to target himself Night 2 in the hope that we would not waste a lynch on him again today. Meaning two actors, Pleo with the freeze-ray and some one else taking out sachertorte. Pleo being frozen toDay by another player only makes sense if the freezing and dusk death are tied together. Really, who cares who Pleo votes for toDay? The other player cannot be town because there was no town reason to freeze/kill sachertorte. So it would have to be a scum action meaning scum are not interested in recruiting Pleo after all. Bleh, this game is confusing me.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on May 18, 2009 13:38:57 GMT -5
Since that is out of the bag NAF sat around doing nothing out of the ordinary. How about toNight IS pick me. Sound good IS? Be a waste of an investigation but sinjin apparently thinks my PM is fraudulent. Maybe an easier way would be Inner Stickler was your PM along the lines of mine? If not investigate me, if so I think we can rest assured we are both town. I can read it no other way than both of us being town. Your posted PM does seem to indicate you both are town, but I not sure it is a good idea to do a public handshake of the details. Nor is Inner Stickler investigating you, I think it would be better to investigate an unclaimed. While it's nice to know Pleonast didn't do anything nasty, if the lynch succeeds Today, it is irrelevant information Tomorrow. If town, you're both high profile targets for scum (but evidently also for a doctor), thus probably confirmed by death sooner rather than later. So is it worth it to publicly discuss a joint target? Pro: -more information gain on one person Con: -could have two data points on two different persons instead. In the extreme: IS finds a scum and you find another who targeted the Night kill. -scum can adjusted their target accordingly when publicly announced. Do nothing or target pro-town if they got powers besides the kill (strongman indicates they have to pick a killer). -if IS does find scum, is knowing who he targeted still important? It can help decide whether to trust investigation, but also depends also on the extra data. And with Pleonast situation if we decide to lynch the target data isn't that useful anymore. BTW, if you do find someone targeting some, it could be a town power you don't out right away. If you really think you need to convince us that you both are town, I think doing the reverse of your suggestion could help (you targeting IS to see if he really targets his investigation). IMO, it's not needed - I think two data points on two unknowns is better than 2+ data on one. And if you do accidentally target the same person, you still get the bonus info. Of course, I don't know what extra data you get (role seems an option, but no need to share), so you both have to decide what is best yourselves.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on May 18, 2009 13:55:12 GMT -5
Pleo being frozen toDay by another player only makes sense if the freezing and dusk death are tied together. To be honest, since the freeze ray thing comes from Pleonast I take it with large amounts of salt (lowers the freezing point as well I think). sachertorte didn't mention anything about it and Pleonast is subtly suggesting someone else is Dr. Horrible with a freeze ray. Possible, but him as a PFK Dr. Horrible does still seem likely to me. Since there are enough votes to lynch Pleonast, I won't be voting him in case it powers him. On the other hand, maybe he needs a majority vote to actually die (but that seems a bit to unbalanced as scum could sabotage that easily). And something not directly about Pleonast: if I had the vote block, I would have targeted Pleonast. So it seems a town action to me, besides it not being a likely scum power (as was mentioned earlier IIRC).
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on May 18, 2009 15:01:31 GMT -5
Well, Pleo could have targeted sachertorte with a freeze-ray Night 1 and then when sache conveniently ended up dead at dusk yesterDay decided to target himself Night 2 in the hope that we would not waste a lynch on him again today. Meaning two actors, Pleo with the freeze-ray and some one else taking out sachertorte.
Pleo being frozen toDay by another player only makes sense if the freezing and dusk death are tied together. Really, who cares who Pleo votes for toDay? The other player cannot be town because there was no town reason to freeze/kill sachertorte. So it would have to be a scum action meaning scum are not interested in recruiting Pleo after all.
Bleh, this game is confusing me. This makes sense only if it is assumed that the vote-blocking is a side effect of a power which causes the lynching of the condemned to fail and the vote-blocked player to be Daykilled. i made no such assumption. We can test that easily. All we have to do is lynch a third party - someone who is not blocked from voting - and see if they or Pleo die at Dusk. If it's wrong, then the nominally condemned will die, and we'll still have Pleo to deal with. Or it might be two entirely separate powers. We've just had a game where one player had an investigative power that, as a side-effect, caused players not in the killing group to lose their vote the following Day.
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Post by Inner Stickler on May 18, 2009 16:14:58 GMT -5
I like the idea of the two of us picking separate targets. I do think you, zlw, should keep it under your hat so as not to scare any scum from making an action. I have no problem announcing my targets before hand as you can't hide your alignment.
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Post by sinjin on May 18, 2009 16:31:55 GMT -5
This makes sense only if it is assumed that the vote-blocking is a side effect of a power which causes the lynching of the condemned to fail and the vote-blocked player to be Daykilled. i made no such assumption. Neither did I. Which benefits Pleo, my scenario 1. [Dr. Pangloss]In the best of all possible worlds[/DP] both would die. Scenario 2 with daykill substituted for investigation. Like I said, I can't get a handle on this game. There are too many permutations.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on May 18, 2009 17:28:39 GMT -5
I like the idea of the two of us picking separate targets. I do think you, zlw, should keep it under your hat so as not to scare any scum from making an action. I have no problem announcing my targets before hand as you can't hide your alignment. Announcing your target ahead of time is a bad idea. It makes it incredibly easy for a potential scum bus driver to swap your target to someone you have already checked... or kill off the person you target making the reveal useless... or kill you if you say you are going to target one of them.... or kill you when you are going to target town to make everyone else think that person is scum.... It's just a bad idea and doesn't really gain us anything. All it does is provide scum with more potential ways to make things harder on us.
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Post by Pollux Oil on May 18, 2009 19:33:40 GMT -5
Okay, beginning of Day Two, Inner Stickler says: Now zlw says: So...uh. Am I missing something here? Are you assuming sinjin the Godfather, or are you just not paying much attention.
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