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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 18:43:29 GMT -5
Wait, so you throw a huge breadcrumb, crouton, loaf, whatever out there. And you accuse me of fishing? I threw out a breadcrumb? never mind. I failed at understanding you apparently.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 6, 2012 18:46:27 GMT -5
NETA : So one of the Scum picks that fake claim, and posts "ymndmbygasitmoasakpffim". Then, after everyone has posted their acrostics, I come back and say "The traffic cone is a fake claim". Now that scum is screwed:
This is the section I intended [and thought that I did] bold from Chronos' . Again, I don't understand how Chronos would ..... know .... that scum would do this. If I understand Chronos correctly, the plan is this: Everyone submits their acrostic, each of which corresponds to some identifying section of their PM. Later in the game, whenever anyone claims, we can go over their PM to see if it matches the acrostic that they submitted. If it doesn't match, then they are Scum and we lynch them. If it does match, then Chronos compares the name that they claimed to see if it's the one that story told him was 'probably false', and if it is, then they are Scum we lynch them. It's a cunning plan which cannot fail. As long as Chronos is telling us the truth, he is Town, and nobody makes a typo.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 6, 2012 18:55:49 GMT -5
I think the implication is this: 1. Storyteller has provided Scum (and probably PFK) with cover roles. 2. Chronos knows that one of the cover roles that storyteller has provided is not a role in the game. 3. If the Scum use an acronym from the role that Chronos knows isn't present, they will be hard-pressed to come up with a new sentence to cover for whatever new role they want to claim. I understand number 1 completely. I understand number 2 completely. I understand that "traffic cone" is a variable name. Why would the scum put forth an acronym from a FAKE role?
Wouldn't they put forth an acronym from the role they gave?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 6, 2012 18:56:28 GMT -5
Oh, please, Pleonast is arguing the use of the language. Yes, no one can prove their alignment. However, for everyone aside from Pleo, I can make the following statement: That player may be Town aligned. For Pleonast, I cannot make that statement. Who do you suspect the most of being Anti-Town? Anyone more than Pleonast? So yes, Pleonast has proven himself to be Not Town, so it does fall to him to demonstrate that we can reasonably assume that he falls in the likely small minority of those player who are not Anti-Town. it's a pity he has that higher burden of proof falling on him, but it's his fault. There is no one I suspect of being anti-Town than Pleonast, who has already claimed to be anti-Town (or at least non-Town). I still suspect Meeko for reasons I previously stated. I'm none too thrilled with Chronos, first for his "let's all vote for Ed, but don't anybody pile on" statement, and now for his "you all tell me who you are, and I'll tell you who's lying" idea. Beyond those three, I have no opinions that I feel like sharing at the moment.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 6, 2012 18:57:06 GMT -5
NETA : What is stopping scum from giving an Acrostic from their GIVEN role? Why do they have to do anything with a fake role in the first place?
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 19:04:01 GMT -5
I think the implication is this: 1. Storyteller has provided Scum (and probably PFK) with cover roles. 2. Chronos knows that one of the cover roles that storyteller has provided is not a role in the game. 3. If the Scum use an acronym from the role that Chronos knows isn't present, they will be hard-pressed to come up with a new sentence to cover for whatever new role they want to claim. I understand number 1 completely. I understand number 2 completely. I understand that "traffic cone" is a variable name. Why would the scum put forth an acronym from a FAKE role?
Wouldn't they put forth an acronym from the role they gave? Do you think they want to claim "Commissioner Gordon" or "Batman" or "Alfred" So, if they put forth an acronym from their real Role PM it would have to be: 1. Difficult to recreate for a different role 2. Innocuous and so, able to be applied to almost any role. For example, if I claimed "blhtnctp" and later my role claim has "but let's hope that never comes to pass." It really isn't a good sentence to indicate who I am, now is it? And that should earn me suspicion.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 6, 2012 19:04:30 GMT -5
NETA : What is stopping scum from giving an Acrostic from their GIVEN role? Why do they have to do anything with a fake role in the first place? I think the idea is that we might be able to glean something from their role. If someone has the role "Really Really Super Scummy Bad Guy", then he can't really claim that role, or we might suspect that he's not actually Town. So he needs to at the very least change his name to "Totally Awesome Helpful Nice Dude"...which may then make the flavor text of his PM not fit terribly well. And if Chronos knows that "TAHND" is the fake cover role, then the jig is up.
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 19:04:34 GMT -5
NETA : So one of the Scum picks that fake claim, and posts "ymndmbygasitmoasakpffim". Then, after everyone has posted their acrostics, I come back and say "The traffic cone is a fake claim". Now that scum is screwed:
This is the section I intended [and thought that I did] bold from Chronos' . Again, I don't understand how Chronos would ..... know .... that scum would do this. If I understand Chronos correctly, the plan is this: Everyone submits their acrostic, each of which corresponds to some identifying section of their PM. Later in the game, whenever anyone claims, we can go over their PM to see if it matches the acrostic that they submitted. If it doesn't match, then they are Scum and we lynch them. If it does match, then Chronos compares the name that they claimed to see if it's the one that story told him was 'probably false', and if it is, then they are Scum we lynch them. It's a cunning plan which cannot fail. As long as Chronos is telling us the truth, he is Town, and nobody makes a typo. and Chronos doesn't die.
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Post by sinjin on Mar 6, 2012 19:08:47 GMT -5
This Chronos thing reminds of Hal's role* in the original Batman where he had to get all the player's names. And wasn't Hal a non-malicious PFK** but we killed him anyway because we couldn't tell the diff between the evil and benign PFK's. I can't think of a malicious use of the info and I'm not sure what good it's going to do so: Tdhahoffhkbitdybafi Good luck on your third-party win Chronos. *I think *too lazy to look it up.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 6, 2012 19:20:08 GMT -5
<snipped> frankly with you being a teacher i am surprised at this statement. i am currently teaching two teenaged daughters to drive. i have admonished them to pay attention to all roadside warnings and information. so i think this is dangerous advice. now frankly, i take all roadside warnings and information as merely general guidelines and not real fast and hard rules. but i think young folks may not have the experience to make that determination.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 6, 2012 19:23:12 GMT -5
The flexability of choosing the sentence of our choice was one of the things that prompted me to comply. But now of course there's confusion about what sort of sentence or portion thereof that should be selected for this purpose, so we'll see if any innocents get lynched down the line for misunderstanding or getting confused. It does seem fairly trivial for scum to side-step whatever trap we're trying to lay though.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 6, 2012 19:24:50 GMT -5
It does seem fairly trivial for scum to side-step whatever trap we're trying to lay though. I can't parse this.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 6, 2012 19:28:07 GMT -5
neta: i mean seriously down here they leave the fucking signs up all year long about how the bridge might ice in cold weather. fuck, the only ice you see on a bridge in my neck of the woods is from someone emptying out their toddy on said bridge. and even then the window is only a couple of minutes. might as well put up signs suggesting something along the lines that hitting a cow at 70+ is going to fuck up your suspension or worse.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 6, 2012 19:52:07 GMT -5
Responding to these real quick: No, he doesn't have to kill anyone himself (assuming his wincon is true, which I don't), but he'll likely never reach his stated wincon that way. There's no way this game is balanced in a way that 10+ Days is a likely possibility. Players experience burnout way before then. Instead, there's very probably a whole lot of killing available, bringing the game down to a more manageable 4-7 or so Days, give or take. Original Arkham wasn't supposed to last 10 Days either, but it did, partly because all the third-party killers were offed so quickly. Just sayin'. Sorry, I probably should have said "intended possibility" instead. I know full well the game can go that long, but it's (very likely) not designed specifically to do so, and thus expecting a role to take the long way around to its win (Pleo relying only lynches) is a very unreasonable wincon. No, he doesn't have to kill anyone himself (assuming his wincon is true, which I don't), but he'll likely never reach his stated wincon that way. There's no way this game is balanced in a way that 10+ Days is a likely possibility. Players experience burnout way before then. Instead, there's very probably a whole lot of killing available, bringing the game down to a more manageable 4-7 or so Days, give or take. Where are you getting 10 Days from? I get credit for every lynch I vote on. I get credit for every death indirectly caused by one of powers. I could win in 5 Days/Nights if everything went my way. I was responding to Silver Jan, who seemed to be saying that you could cooperate by not using your kills and just relying on lynches to fulfil your kill quota. I wanted to point out why it would be unreasonable to expect you to do that. Okay, catching up now.
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Post by Nanook on Mar 6, 2012 20:00:11 GMT -5
I know this is Mafia, and paranoia is the name of the game, but this idea that Chronos can use acronyms(acrostics? Whatever the fuck) as some sort of master plan for him to win the game is silly.
Mine is from the middle of my color, just cuz.
tsogafosadpaowcbfasefapgaasuet
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 6, 2012 20:04:22 GMT -5
actually i used my acronym as a marketing technique for my current endeavor. except for the a2rp. that's legit.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 6, 2012 20:08:50 GMT -5
It does seem fairly trivial for scum to side-step whatever trap we're trying to lay though. I can't parse this. I don't think it would be too difficult for scum to provide an acrostic now and then edit whatever role PM they are going to use for a full claim such that it complies with the acrostic. Whether scum could do that and still avoid getting caught by Chronos' alleged perfect information about the role that is not in the game is less clear.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 6, 2012 20:10:22 GMT -5
Okay, I'm on board with the acrostic suggestion. Here's one from mine: Tolpsasarotmpttb.
To whomever asked why he didn't say he knew of a fake cover role the first time he suggested it (Meeko?), the answer seems pretty simple: stating you know information up front that you might have to/want to reveal on a later Day is a good way to risk your life and/or tie up any protective roles. When laying traps, it's usually best to not announce that it's a trap.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 6, 2012 20:14:45 GMT -5
I don't think it would be too difficult for scum to provide an acrostic now and then edit whatever role PM they are going to use for a full claim such that it complies with the acrostic. Whether scum could do that and still avoid getting caught by Chronos' alleged perfect information about the role that is not in the game is less clear. It would depend, I guess. I certainly don't see the plan as a magic bullet, but it's enough of a complication that it might yield some fruit. The longer/more the acrostics, the better, because that will make them even harder to fake.
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Post by texcat on Mar 6, 2012 20:37:31 GMT -5
FTR, I am still highly skeptical of Chronos, and think he must have some ulterior motive to asking for acronyms. But I fail to see any downside in providing my acronym: iayntathotdiatuhdya
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 20:38:36 GMT -5
As a fun side game, I think we should take other people letters and try to make fun sentences out of them:
Dirx: Tolpsasarotmpttb.
Two overcooked llamas provided some asshole another appetizer - reading obituaries to my penis thrills the batman.
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Post by Mahaloth on Mar 6, 2012 20:45:13 GMT -5
FTR, I am still highly skeptical of Chronos, and think he must have some ulterior motive to asking for acronyms. But I fail to see any downside in providing my acronym: iayntathotdiatuhdyaIf you are highly skeptical and think he must have an ulterior motive, why don't you see a downside? Honestly, I don't know what it is about this game, but I'm just believing people. I think Pleo's role is as stated. I think Chronos has been honest about his "knowing the fake role" thingy, too. Gut feelings on both.
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 20:48:58 GMT -5
I ate your nachos that another teacher had ordered to dissuade Incans and teach us how dogs yodel arias.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Mar 6, 2012 20:48:59 GMT -5
NETA: 4. Meekoi've only played with him one and he was scum. he was nailed for not having his usual verbose style. i believe that this is first game since then. unless he's been able to rein in his playstyle since then, i'm thinking he's town. As I stated earlier, I found work since my last Mafia game, as a player. I will participate when I can, but I don't know next week's schedule until tuesday. [ ]
uh, i was commenting about your alignment, not your absence. -------------------------- i'll play along with the anagram/acrostic idea. bygafaigwbywaykaysom
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Post by Dirx on Mar 6, 2012 20:50:59 GMT -5
As a fun side game, I think we should take other people letters and try to make fun sentences out of them: Dirx: Tolpsasarotmpttb. Two overcooked llamas provided some asshole another appetizer - reading obituaries to my penis thrills the batman. Special Ed: iwdbeflt I watched Dirx beat Ed forever, last time. ;D
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 20:56:48 GMT -5
As a fun side game, I think we should take other people letters and try to make fun sentences out of them: Dirx: Tolpsasarotmpttb. Two overcooked llamas provided some asshole another appetizer - reading obituaries to my penis thrills the batman. Special Ed: iwdbeflt I watched Dirx beat Ed forever, last time. ;D Times have changed, my little scumling. This is the new Ed. I have a winning streak against you (Hurrdurrburg). Well, we lost the one we were on the same side of, didn't we(Giligan)?
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Post by texcat on Mar 6, 2012 21:04:15 GMT -5
FTR, I am still highly skeptical of Chronos, and think he must have some ulterior motive to asking for acronyms. But I fail to see any downside in providing my acronym: iayntathotdiatuhdyaIf you are highly skeptical and think he must have an ulterior motive, why don't you see a downside? Honestly, I don't know what it is about this game, but I'm just believing people. I think Pleo's role is as stated. I think Chronos has been honest about his "knowing the fake role" thingy, too. Gut feelings on both.
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Post by texcat on Mar 6, 2012 21:05:37 GMT -5
Crap! Lost my reply...
My best guess is that Chronos is trying to identify a partner of some kind, or perhaps a victim of some kind. [/total wild ass guess] In either case, I don't suspect he's trying to find me. And if by chance, he's really looking for scum, then I know he's not trying to find me. So, I didn't see the downside. Or I just couldn't think of what the downside could be.
You know, in real life, I tend to believe everything at face value. In fact, I am the proud owner of 3 separate bridges and few acres of swamp. But in this game, I tend not to believe anyone ever.
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Post by special on Mar 6, 2012 21:12:28 GMT -5
Crap! Lost my reply... My best guess is that Chronos is trying to identify a partner of some kind, or perhaps a victim of some kind. [/total wild ass guess] In either case, I don't suspect he's trying to find me. And if by chance, he's really looking for scum, then I know he's not trying to find me. So, I didn't see the downside. Or I just couldn't think of what the downside could be. Hmm, so he might be looking for someone, but it's not you. So by removing yourself from his pool, doesn't it make his job easier? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here's what I don't like about this post. texcat gave a phrase. So did a lot of people. Why did she feel the need to be so defensive about it...even proactively defensive about it? so much so that she came up with a reason why she doesn't care....only it's the exact reason why she should care...
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Post by Dirx on Mar 6, 2012 21:18:57 GMT -5
Special Ed: iwdbeflt I watched Dirx beat Ed forever, last time. ;D Times have changed, my little scumling. This is the new Ed. I have a winning streak against you (Hurrdurrburg). Well, we lost the one we were on the same side of, didn't we(Giligan)? I won with/as town in Hurrdurburg. My only loss since Spaghetti Western was the Trick or Treat mini, which yes, we lost together.
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