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Post by Gadarene on Mar 7, 2012 10:05:56 GMT -5
I object to the acrostic tactic as I feel it is basically identical to mass claiming to win a game, except the townies also risk nothing in the process. As such, I feel it is not sporting, entirely uninteresting, and sapping of any enjoyment I'd have trying to use my gut instincts to hunt mafia when there's a metagaming strategy to out them regardless of how good they are. As a conscientious objector, and given that everyone else has decided to condone this course of action, I accept being lynched as a consequence to my objection. I simply refuse to play the game this way, with my apologies. If you'd prefer to sub me out, please do so. I agree with you Pizza, I have been reading with my mouth getting more and more turned down. I think it's tantamount to posting your role PM. Why does everyone believe Chronos all of a sudden. I think he's trying to make a fun game rather dull and boring and the only people that have any work to do are scum making up fake PM's or whatever they have to do. The point of the game has become about winning at all costs and forget the fun part, I for one, am very disappointed. I agree with this completely. It's not my idea of fun. But what're you gonna do? It's clearly allowed by the rules.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 10:15:18 GMT -5
I object to the acrostic tactic as I feel it is basically identical to mass claiming to win a game, except the townies also risk nothing in the process. As such, I feel it is not sporting, entirely uninteresting, and sapping of any enjoyment I'd have trying to use my gut instincts to hunt mafia when there's a metagaming strategy to out them regardless of how good they are. As a conscientious objector, and given that everyone else has decided to condone this course of action, I accept being lynched as a consequence to my objection. I simply refuse to play the game this way, with my apologies. If you'd prefer to sub me out, please do so. I agree with you Pizza, I have been reading with my mouth getting more and more turned down. I think it's tantamount to posting your role PM. Why does everyone believe Chronos all of a sudden. I think he's trying to make a fun game rather dull and boring and the only people that have any work to do are scum making up fake PM's or whatever they have to do. The point of the game has become about winning at all costs and forget the fun part, I for one, am very disappointed. No, I think I believe Chronos. I myself have whenever I've been townie attempted to use any and all avenues available to me to gain victory. As scum too. I've watched people's profiles and tried to pattern when they were online. If they showed up at night, didn't post anything, and there wasn't much to read, I'd consider them potentially a powerful role, or a scum role. If someone wasn't invisible and never showed up for days at a time, they likely weren't scum sending in kills. But then I saw that others found that tactic to be quite meta-gamey. In all my excitement in pursuing the scum, and thinking to myself how awesomely pro-town I was being, I forgot to check myself. It might not be against the rules but it could be against the spirit of the game. If it's not against the rules, for example, people could simply just post screenshots of their role PM and whoever doesn't do it is mafia. But it's not mafia to play the game that way. It's "the game host didn't say it was illegal, we win!" which is a different and much less fun game with a lot less nuance and subtlety. As exciting as it might be for the person who thought of the idea, and as technically pro-town as it is, it's also ruinous to the fun of the game for some. Yes, especially the mafia. But for folks like myself, who pride themselves on being able to spot legitimately scummy behavior, particularly the kind folks are unaware they are exhibiting, which is the hardest kind of behavior to cover up, it turns the game into something else entirely and my particular talents are no longer required. I could just sit back and watch you guys solve the game without any input from me at all. Which gets a resounding "meh" from me... I remember a game hosted on Civilization Fanatics Forums, called Gangland Wars. What happened in that game is one of the scum team's members outed every single one of his own teammates early on in the game, in an attempt to look pro-townie. Miserable player, for sure. He was the FIRST one we lynched, out of disgust. And every day we simply mass-bandwagoned the mafia that were outed. I refused to vote for those guys because during that whole mess nobody was talking about the other mafia team, which had not been outed, or the serial killer. Since I figured mafia team A was doomed, I felt obliged to focus on actual scum hunting, meaning talking about the dudes that hadn't been handed to us on a silver platter. And I even offered to work with everyone on scum team A that had been outed in the effort of finding and eliminating scum team B, to give them something fun and interesting to do besides get slaughtered one by one. That lead to scum team B and the serial killer getting beat, mostly through actual detective work. That happened before scum team A was finished off, too. I'm not disappointed in anyone who is pursuing the scum to the best of their abilities and to their maximum advantage. If, for example, it was agreed we all revealed our role PMs, according to what I've read so far, I'd agree that we could probably lynch a scumbag on round one. Certainly a better outcome than lynching the outed PFK or a townie, because we can always follow up on lynching the PFK later when he's killed off some scumbags too. It's like killing 4 birds with one stone. That said, the risk involved with that strategy is that the scum team may be able to absorb that loss easily and then our entire pro-town establishment has their dangly bits all exposed. That's a trade-off which seems within the realm of fairness. It does take a lot of the mystery out of the game for me though, I like having to deduce and guess. But all that seems legit as a tactic. Chronos' idea takes the risk out of it for the town side and still achieves the outcome desired. He's to be commended for his cleverness. It's quite the loophole to find. That said, I think I'm good enough not to need that loophole. I think you guys are very experienced players and don't need to use it either. And I also think if we use that loophole, we won't be playing a mafia game anymore, and it won't be as fun. No biggie... I see I'm in the minority on the point. And I won't beat it to death either. Please continue play as you see fit. As in the Gangland Wars game, I personally won't be playing for the "gimme" nabs of scumbags, even as others do. I objected in that game and it didn't stop half the scums in team A from going down in flames one by one. While others are playing for the "gimmes" I will be playing for the diamonds in the rough. Hunting for gold nuggets in the mountain, if you will. Or crap nuggets in the rhetoric. In much the same way I refuse to vote for Pleonast here, because we didn't do any work to nab him, he simply claimed, and I feel it would be more in the spirit of the game, more fun, if we attempted to play the game with/against him by pressuring him to try to destroy folks we think are mafia, and trying to get the mafia to focus on him... it leaves more of the tension in the game. Puts more pressure on the scums and indeed, the townies. It's added complication, which I believe was the entire point of having a PFK in the game in the first place. I don't think he should have claimed, because he is liable to get lynched now, at any time. And I don't really blame folks who want to play the "gimme" game and lynch him now. But for me, I like to live dangerously and I want to see what Pleonast is capable of. Can he wreck the scums? If he can, gosh, leave him alive for a few... then kill him anyway! ;D Because that shit is an even better move. And it takes BALLS. But, we can be boring and lynch Pleonast. Then we can mass-breadcrumb our roles and out another scum in the process. Hell, maybe we have true detectives and we can nail a third scum, and lynch nothing but non-townies one, two, three. And as good for the town as that will be, somewhere in my heart, I'll be weeping for the game itself. And trying to hunt the scums without the crutches given to us, like a stubborn, old-timey purist, ranting about the good ole days when folks had to try to win. Also, I do love the bunnies. I'm a big fan of small, furry creatures because they're absolutely yummy.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 10:22:01 GMT -5
I agree with this completely. It's not my idea of fun. But what're you gonna do? It's clearly allowed by the rules. Me? Well obviously I'm not going to do much beyond lodge a protest. It's been done already, most people have already posted their thingy. I'm just going to ignore any post related to that tactic, that's all I can do. And also encourage folks to, even if they want to use that strategy, to go ahead and continue playing as if they're not using it. In other words, keep discussing votes, behavioral oddities, and using classic scum-hunting techniques. The biggest danger with being able to out a scum a certain way, say via mass claim or detective result, is that it gets people distracted from finding them other ways. And when the crutch is gone, will we have any leads whatsoever? I will be working to make sure there are other kinds of leads. Even for folks who favor the acrostic move, I'd encourage them to continue play as if it's not even happening and use their brains to hunt scums. That way you get the best of both worlds, and I don't get bored out of my mind playing the game by myself.
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Post by Mahaloth on Mar 7, 2012 10:22:28 GMT -5
I hate to be a pain, but can we add a player list to the setup thread or something? If there is one there, I seem to not be seeing it. I pulled up a post count and here is what I see.
astralrejection 4 Rysto 4 Merestil Haye 3 Idle Thoughts 2 Høøpy Frøød 1
If all these folks are in the game, where did they go? Rysto, who has my vote, has disappeared. When someone quiets up(without telling us they are unavailable), I find it hard to remove my vote. Perhaps he's scum and is trying to slide through un-noticed.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 10:29:13 GMT -5
I know Pleonast is a shiny target, but I don't understand why more people aren't voting for you right now. Said to TexCat. Which brings up an interesting point for the sake of discussion- Who would the Pleonast voters be voting for, if not for the gimme Pleo? So we get a head start on tomorrow's likely more productive discussion. If we didn't have Pleo's claim, who is acting scummy?Talk about this please.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 10:33:49 GMT -5
I hate to be a pain, but can we add a player list to the setup thread or something? If there is one there, I seem to not be seeing it. I pulled up a post count and here is what I see. astralrejection 4 Rysto 4 Merestil Haye 3 Idle Thoughts 2 Høøpy Frøød 1 If all these folks are in the game, where did they go? Rysto, who has my vote, has disappeared. When someone quiets up(without telling us they are unavailable), I find it hard to remove my vote. Perhaps he's scum and is trying to slide through un-noticed. Games/Arkham/administrative/player list www.idlemafia.com/index.cgi?board=administrate&action=display&thread=18841. peekercpa 2. Pollux Oil 3. Nanook 4. Merestil Haye 5. scathach 6. Special Ed 7. sinjin 8. Total Ullz 9. SBrOwn 10. gnarlycharly 11. Suburban Plankton 12. Rysto 13. Gadarene 14. Drain Bead 15. Pleonast 16. Cometothe...Cookies 17. Idle Thoughts 18. BillMc 19. texcat 20. guiri 21. Silver Jan 22. Meeko 23. askthepizzaguy 24. Lightfoot 25. Mahaloth 26. astral rejection 27. Archangel 28. Hal Briston 29. dirx 30. Chronos 31. Inner Stickler Unvote peekercpa Vote Astral Rejection[/color] Hoopy isn't even in the game, and I find that when scums do the lurking strategy, they don't necessarily go dead silent because then if they get voted for it and pipe up, it looks worse. So, Astral could be contributing more. Especially since he dropped out of my game to play this one... wink wink nudge nudge no grudge just scummy behavior there Astral mah boy.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 10:34:16 GMT -5
I hate to be a pain, but can we add a player list to the setup thread or something? If there is one there, I seem to not be seeing it. I pulled up a post count and here is what I see. astralrejection 4 Rysto 4 Merestil Haye 3 Idle Thoughts 2 Høøpy Frøød 1 If all these folks are in the game, where did they go? Rysto, who has my vote, has disappeared. When someone quiets up(without telling us they are unavailable), I find it hard to remove my vote. Perhaps he's scum and is trying to slide through un-noticed. Vote hoopy!!!!!!
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 10:44:00 GMT -5
Vote Special Ed for encouraging people to waste their vote!!!!! ;D
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 7, 2012 10:55:54 GMT -5
Said to TexCat. Which brings up an interesting point for the sake of discussion- Who would the Pleonast voters be voting for, if not for the gimme Pleo? So we get a head start on tomorrow's likely more productive discussion. If we didn't have Pleo's claim, who is acting scummy?Talk about this please. For my money (and my vote, natch) that would be TexCat. From a personal standpoint, I've figured out more scum from picking out PIS than any other method. His PIS about knowing I'm not scum is what did it for me. I also (gut) think Silver Jan is likely scum, and that the rush to lynch Pleo is nonsensical.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 10:56:54 GMT -5
Vote Special Ed for encouraging people to waste their vote!!!!! ;D Sorry, it's a bit of a meme over here. On numerous occasions he's been voted or even recruited in games in which he isn't even playing.
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Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
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Post by Total Ullz on Mar 7, 2012 10:57:52 GMT -5
My favorite part is still the game where Almost Human tried to recruit Høøpy Frøød and he wasn't even in the game Also I like the idea of talking about who people would vote for if not Pleo. My vote on TexCat feels very good and I am a bit surprised so few seem to agree.
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 7, 2012 11:05:01 GMT -5
If I was not voting Pleo, I would be voting either TexCat or possibly Hal.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 11:16:54 GMT -5
If I was not voting Pleo, I would be voting either TexCat or possibly Hal. I'm not yet willing to post my suspicions, though reading my posts should allow you to figure out at least 1. I will say I'm unwilling to lynch Chronos. That claim just doesn't make sense as Scum. And only fits as PFK if he has 2 fake claims to use. Ok maybe scum have an extra 1, but still the timing of the claim really points to Town. I also understand the unwillingness to play any type of "role PM" game. I am a reformed handshaker myself. Though, in all fairness, my actions hurt Town more than helped in most cases.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 7, 2012 11:18:52 GMT -5
If we didn't have Pleo's claim, who is acting scummy? I answered this a while back ( Meeko and Chronos). I'll add to that list texcat - for the same reason as everyone else Cookies - for pointing out that "It does seem fairly trivial for scum to side-step whatever trap we're trying to lay"...but proceeding to play along anyway. Of course, she's not side-stepping anything, she's just being honest, right? As an aside, I've just now noticed that Cookies' user name here does not contain the word 'The'...it's just 'ComeToDarkSide...' I'm pretty sure the missing article isn't in and of itself a Scum Tell, but it has rather shaken my entire World View this morning. Perhaps I need another cup of coffee.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 11:20:23 GMT -5
For my money (and my vote, natch) that would be TexCat. From a personal standpoint, I've figured out more scum from picking out PIS than any other method. His PIS about knowing I'm not scum is what did it for me. I also (gut) think Silver Jan is likely scum, and that the rush to lynch Pleo is nonsensical. Looking at this post: this is really weird. how can an admitted PFK/3rd party be scummy? based on the number of your posts here it seems you are new to the board. but your posts say you aren't new to mafia. so i can't understand your comment. FOS SBrown I haven't read far enough in the last game to get to the recruiting serial killer. My first reaction was that if you added recruitment to Pleo's other claimed powers that it would be over the top. Considering it a little longer, it might make sense if it was not an additional power, just a choice after death for the victim. Clearly, Pleo is not the scummiest, but he is arguably the most dangerous. One of more of the Pleo voters are probably going to die with him. Total Ullz, do you really think that's the easy vote for scum? Wouldn't it be easier for scum to vote for Hal? My reactions: Scum will likely be among those advocating for Pleo's lynch, since it removes one of the most dangerous threats in the game that they cannot counter in the slightest. You can remove townies from the game who suspect you, even talk them out of it. You can't stop a serial killer from killing you for no damned reason. Townies should fear a serial killer. Mafia should be wetting their beds at the idea of town leaving the serial killer alive. Mafia will want the Joker dead, period. So, Tex fits that category. But that's just one thing, and townies will also want a SK dead too. Where Tex loses me is where she says that she disagrees that it is the easy vote for scums. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, but it could indicate overthinking the situation or just plain being too honest while scummy, i.e. nobody on my scum team is stupid enough to vote for the Joker. I didn't read all the Joker's claimed powers very closely, can he kill someone who votes for him? In any case, I'd agree there's something to the case on TexCat. I'd like to hear TexCat respond.And a follow-up q for Hal: What did Silver Jan do that caused your visceral reaction?
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 11:21:48 GMT -5
Crap! She meant "come to A dark side"!!!!!!!
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 7, 2012 11:23:28 GMT -5
I agree with you Pizza, I have been reading with my mouth getting more and more turned down. I think it's tantamount to posting your role PM. Why does everyone believe Chronos all of a sudden. I think he's trying to make a fun game rather dull and boring and the only people that have any work to do are scum making up fake PM's or whatever they have to do. The point of the game has become about winning at all costs and forget the fun part, I for one, am very disappointed. I agree with this completely. It's not my idea of fun. But what're you gonna do? It's clearly allowed by the rules. I agree as well...but as to "what're you gonna do?" It's quite simple: just express your displeasure, and then get on with the game. I think pizza's "sub me out of this game if it's a problem" was rather over-dramatic, but I think that's just the way he is sometimes.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 11:24:30 GMT -5
Crap! She meant "come to A dark side"!!!!!!! I think my pointing out past memes is turning out to be quite a debacle.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 7, 2012 11:25:01 GMT -5
Pleo could be telling the truth ( or he could pop out of the closet as a PFK once he meets his win-con) Hal may have had another motive with his ‘red button event’ (also I think he’s a hair trigger scum with a sense of humour that didn’t think it through= I think if he wasn’t Scum he would have more votes) chronos might have another motive for his letters game ( for good/evil or his own set I don’t know) ( the wacky ones badied about might twart or at the least confuse that ) Seriously? Is that all you have to say? You could agree/disagree/see my point/ or call me full of shite. But you choose to do none of the above? Why waste the finger movements to quote the post?
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 11:25:19 GMT -5
*~drama queen~*
I thought my opinion would be so unpopular that peeps wouldn't even want to play with me. Did not expect any backing at all.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 7, 2012 11:36:40 GMT -5
Players who have not voted so far:
Archangel - 0 Posts Dirx - 20 Posts Idle Thoughts - 2 Posts Merestil Haye - 3 Posts Rysto - 4 Posts
Idle did post in the 'Going to be away thread' that his availability would be limited until Friday, so it's possible he hasn't had enough time to read through the thread, since it has moved along a quite a pace.
Rysto hasn't posted for almost 3 days now.
MHaye's last post was yesterday morning.
Archangel is of course completely AWOL
Dirx is the outlier here. He's been participating; he's in the top third of posters by post count, but he doesn't have any opinions strong enough to warrant a vote?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 7, 2012 11:41:43 GMT -5
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies is too long to use as a login credential, but you can choose whatever display name that you want. So you think this is a bullet proof plan then, Suburban? As I said, I can see no harm in us sharing bits of alphabet soup out of our PM. They mean nothing to anyone until an actual claim is made. But it also seems like something that would not be that difficult for scum to craft a way around. Just calling it as I see it. In other words, I think you're full of it with suspecting me for that statement and I'm again not the only person, nor the first person, to have posted the thought. Are you suspecting me for the idea? If so, why not the others who have said something similar? Or are you suspecting me for my tone of voice, or how I said it, in which case .
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 7, 2012 11:42:23 GMT -5
Ah I see that I did leave out the The when I switched back from my Coconut alias. All fixed.
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 7, 2012 11:47:12 GMT -5
And a follow-up q for Hal: What did Silver Jan do that caused your visceral reaction?Nothing at all. My mistake -- with apologies to Silver Jan, I mixed her up with LightFoot. As for my reason for that suspicion, I think I'm going to have to admit to myself that it might be a dose of OMGUS. I know I called it "gut", but in reading back I can't even find much to justify even that bit of weak sauce. I don't like her reasoning for voting for me, finding it a little too "Ooo, there's a bunch of nothing that we can latch on to", but I'll admit it only works if I force her into a scum role. Not saying she's not, but force-reading it that way can lead to bad decisions. I'm still as certain as I can be (which is, say, 10%) on TexCat though.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 7, 2012 11:48:58 GMT -5
I'm a late voter, and I thought that was pretty common knowledge. With the deadline tomorrow, you can likely expect a vote from me tonight some time. I'm leaning toward TexCat, but there are one or two other leads I want to look into again to see if I still see what I thought I saw (I do a fair amount of reading when I don't have a lot of time to process it, so I just scribble notes for me to go back and look again to doublecheck).
Also, Pizzaguy: I don't think your vote change counts, because your unvote of peeker wasn't properly formatted.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 7, 2012 11:55:11 GMT -5
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies is too long to use as a login credential, but you can choose whatever display name that you want. So you think this is a bullet proof plan then, Suburban? As I said, I can see no harm in us sharing bits of alphabet soup out of our PM. They mean nothing to anyone until an actual claim is made. But it also seems like something that would not be that difficult for scum to craft a way around. Just calling it as I see it. In other words, I think you're full of it with suspecting me for that statement and I'm again not the only person, nor the first person, to have posted the thought. Are you suspecting me for the idea? If so, why not the others who have said something similar? Or are you suspecting me for my tone of voice, or how I said it, in which case . I don't think it's a bulletproof plan at all. I happen to agree that I think it will be easy enough for Scum to 'work around' the restriction. It's one of the reasons I'm not participating in this scheme (though not the primary one; that would be 'on principle'). You are the only person I noticed who said basically "this is easy enough to fake" but went ahead and did it anyway. To me, it kind of invalidates your action, since you've just told us that we shouldn't believe you in the first palce. If I missed someone else expressing the same sentiment, then please point them out and I will point my suspicious finger at them as well if it makes you feel better. On the lighter side, my World is making more sense now that you've re-added the 'The' to your name. Or it could just be the coffee...
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Post by Mahaloth on Mar 7, 2012 11:55:45 GMT -5
Idle did post in the 'Going to be away thread' that his availability would be limited until Friday, so it's possible he hasn't had enough time to read through the thread, since it has moved along a quite a pace. Thanks, I missed that.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 7, 2012 11:57:53 GMT -5
Crap! She meant "come to A dark side"!!!!!!! ;D
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 7, 2012 12:22:00 GMT -5
I agree with this completely. It's not my idea of fun. But what're you gonna do? It's clearly allowed by the rules. It's not particularly fun for me, either. Vanilla handshakes and stuff like this I don't see as in the spirit of the game. It's another way to try and outthink the mod. While I posted my letters, I'm not going to pay attention to whether other people decide to post theirs or not, or even use references to them as scum tells. There are so many problems with this idea that I think all tells are null. A game with possible recruitment or alignment shifting means people can post their actual role PM now and switch sides later, but still match their acrostic. I honestly don't think this plan is going to go anywhere and I'm perfectly fine with people refusing to do it. My two cents. Scum will likely be among those advocating for Pleo's lynch, since it removes one of the most dangerous threats in the game that they cannot counter in the slightest. You can remove townies from the game who suspect you, even talk them out of it. You can't stop a serial killer from killing you for no damned reason. Townies should fear a serial killer. Mafia should be wetting their beds at the idea of town leaving the serial killer alive. Mafia will want the Joker dead, period. So, Tex fits that category. But that's just one thing, and townies will also want a SK dead too. I'm going to go ahead and reiterate something I've said before: in the original Arkham between a townie lynch and a possible SK lynch, all the town voted for the townie and all the scum/PFKs/third-parties voted for the possible SK. Whichever side gets the other side to waste one of their lynches/kills on a third-party SK wins. By removing Pleo through the lynch, scum now have freedom to kill whoever they want toNight. If we leave Pleo alive, we now force the scum to juggle thoughts. Do they kill Pleo because he may hurt them later? Will there be a vig, and will they target Pleo? We put a lot more burden on the scum by leaving that person alive, and as a bonus if they decide to do it, we get a third-party removed for free. Right now, I'd assume there are at least two scum and probably a PFK voting for Pleo. Any town voting for Pleo should think to reconsider their options. We turned a possible pro-town situation (a double lynch of our highest and second highest targets) into lynching a possible PFK/possible third-party and losing a probable townie due to Pleo's strict no-editing philosophy. If Pleo turns up PFK and takes out a town, that's a good win for town. Not a great or fantastic win, just a good win, leaning towards okay. If Pleo turns up third-party and takes out a town, that's not a victory for town, that's a victory for scum.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 12:25:35 GMT -5
Unvoting will use red text. Okay...
Unvote peekercpa Vote Astral Rejection[/color]
Also please note, the spellchecker suggests "peacekeeper" when you type out peeker's name.
That made me laugh and laugh.
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