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Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 7, 2012 12:25:47 GMT -5
VOTE COUNT - OFFICIAL - WEDNESDAY PM
Pleonast (10 votes) - Cookies (357), Nanook (359), texcat (382), astralrejection (407), SBrOwn (419), Gadarene (436), sinjin (448), BillMc (449), Suburban Plankton (455), Special Ed (469)
Hal Briston (4 votes) - Pollux Oil (271), Lightfoot (283), Silver Jan (300), Meeko (345)
texcat (4 votes) - Total Ullz (411), Hal Briston (458), Drain Bead (501), scathach (621)
Mahaloth (1 vote) - Inner Stickler (11)
Chronos (1 vote) - peekercpa (87)
Drain Bead (1 vote) - guiri (140)
Rysto (1 vote) - Mahaloth (196)
Special Ed (1 vote) - Pleonast (237)
Gadarene (1 vote) - Chronos (406)
Cookies (1 vote) – gnarlycharly (432)
astral rejection (1 vote) - askthepizzaguy (659)
------------------------------------
Day Ends - Thursday, March 8, @5:00PM EST
(in roughly 29 hours)
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Post by sinjin on Mar 7, 2012 12:25:59 GMT -5
If I was not voting Pleo, I would be voting either TexCat or possibly Hal. I can understand TexCat but why or Hal? If you think TexCat is scum for her PIS wouldn't that mean that Hal is non-scum? For me it would be TexCat for PIS. Or by MHaye for starting all the how should we handle potential vig kills debate then completely disappearing from the conversation. Or peeks because, well just because. I was starting to come around on my Pleo vote after Story said the generic thing was meant for role reveals only. However, then Pleo announced he was using his day kill power to off Ed instead of the lynch runner up. Again a unilateral decision and again one I don't agree with. I don't get a scummy vibe off of Ed at this point at all. Which given the efficacy of my scum-dar means Ed's probably scum.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 12:33:51 GMT -5
I'm going to go ahead and reiterate something I've said before: in the original Arkham between a townie lynch and a possible SK lynch, all the town voted for the townie and all the scum/PFKs/third-parties voted for the possible SK. Whichever side gets the other side to waste one of their lynches/kills on a third-party SK wins. By removing Pleo through the lynch, scum now have freedom to kill whoever they want toNight. If we leave Pleo alive, we now force the scum to juggle thoughts. Do they kill Pleo because he may hurt them later? Will there be a vig, and will they target Pleo? We put a lot more burden on the scum by leaving that person alive, and as a bonus if they decide to do it, we get a third-party removed for free. Right now, I'd assume there are at least two scum and probably a PFK voting for Pleo. Any town voting for Pleo should think to reconsider their options. We turned a possible pro-town situation (a double lynch of our highest and second highest targets) into lynching a possible PFK/possible third-party and losing a probable townie due to Pleo's strict no-editing philosophy. If Pleo turns up PFK and takes out a town, that's a good win for town. Not a great or fantastic win, just a good win, leaning towards okay. If Pleo turns up third-party and takes out a town, that's not a victory for town, that's a victory for scum. Ah Pollux Oil. I can see your strategic ideas are quite refined. ;D
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 7, 2012 12:40:14 GMT -5
Vote Astral Rejection<vote bleached> <snip> So, Astral could be contributing more. Especially since he dropped out of my game to play this one... wink wink nudge nudge no grudge just scummy behavior there Astral mah boy. So, "lynch the lurker" is the best you've got right now? I mean, if that's how you want to go, so be it -- I know my personal bias against LTL (lurkers are 99% townies with crappy roles, not scum) is coloring this -- but you don't have any read on any of the current candidates?
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 7, 2012 12:40:15 GMT -5
~~snipped~~ If Pleo turns up PFK and takes out a town, that's a good win for town. Not a great or fantastic win, just a good win, leaning towards okay. If Pleo turns up third-party and takes out a town, that's not a victory for town, that's a victory for scum. Am I reading this wrong or did you type it back-asswards?
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 7, 2012 12:41:33 GMT -5
If I was not voting Pleo, I would be voting either TexCat or possibly Hal. I can understand TexCat but why or Hal? If you think TexCat is scum for her PIS wouldn't that mean that Hal is non-scum? For me it would be TexCat for PIS. Or by MHaye for starting all the how should we handle potential vig kills debate then completely disappearing from the conversation. Or peeks because, well just because. I was starting to come around on my Pleo vote after Story said the generic thing was meant for role reveals only. However, then Pleo announced he was using his day kill power to off Ed instead of the lynch runner up. Again a unilateral decision and again one I don't agree with. I don't get a scummy vibe off of Ed at this point at all. Which given the efficacy of my scum-dar means Ed's probably scum. I think Hal activating the Killing Joke like that is affirmatively anti-town, in that it is more likely than not to lead to the death of a townie. On a separate note, I have Pollux, Dirx, and Rysto (when he was around) as strong Town leans for generally having the same thought processes as me. Every time I read one of their posts, I feel like I could have written it myself.
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Post by sinjin on Mar 7, 2012 12:45:50 GMT -5
I would be more than happy to move m vote off Pleo toDay if he would promise not to use his DayKill power toDay. Let the scums take him out.
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Post by texcat on Mar 7, 2012 12:46:36 GMT -5
My reactions: Scum will likely be among those advocating for Pleo's lynch, since it removes one of the most dangerous threats in the game that they cannot counter in the slightest. You can remove townies from the game who suspect you, even talk them out of it. You can't stop a serial killer from killing you for no damned reason. Townies should fear a serial killer. Mafia should be wetting their beds at the idea of town leaving the serial killer alive. Mafia will want the Joker dead, period. So, Tex fits that category. But that's just one thing, and townies will also want a SK dead too. Where Tex loses me is where she says that she disagrees that it is the easy vote for scums. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning, but it could indicate overthinking the situation or just plain being too honest while scummy, i.e. nobody on my scum team is stupid enough to vote for the Joker. I didn't read all the Joker's claimed powers very closely, can he kill someone who votes for him? In any case, I'd agree there's something to the case on TexCat. I'd like to hear TexCat respond.First, you seem awfully sure of your opinion on who wants Pleo killed, for someone who then turns around and says that you didn't bother reading his claimed powers very closely. Why is that? You would agree that there's something to the case? What exactly is there to the case? Total Ullz voted me for making what she called an easy vote for Pleo. I found that strange since I had actually worried a little bit about being killed by Pleo in self-defense, if not retaliation. I also spent some time considering whether Pleo was setting some sort of trap for us. I personally did NOT find it easy to place that vote, and so I thought it odd that Total Ullz did. Pleo and Hal were the vote leaders at the time. I thought that the vote for Hal would have been easier, and said so. I didn't say anything about Hal being town. I didn't say anything about Hal being scum. I said I thought he was an easier vote than voting for Pleo. That would very much depend on Hal's alignment - wouldn't it? Your last question has me going It would be pretty damn hard for scum to vote for Hal if Hal is scum. Your question seems to indicate pretty clearly that you strongly believe that Hal is not scum. That's real strange this early in the game. I assumed here that the last question puzzling Sinjin was the one about whether Hal wouldn't be an easier vote. I don't think that statement in anyway whatsoever indicates that I believe that Hal is not scum. It simply means that out of the two vote leaders at the time, I thought Hal would be more likely to attract scum looking for an easy place to put their vote, and not be killed by Pleo in the process. Total is correct when she states that it would depend on Hal's alignment, but I don't think it depends on alignment nearly as much as these two think. Scum vote for scum all of the time. In partial answer your other question, Pizza, who would I be looking at if I weren't convinced that Pleo needs to die and die sooner rather than later? I would take another look at Sinjin. Why did she assume this was some PIS? Is she so sure of Hal's alignment? I would take another look at DrainBead for not voting Sinjin on this alone. I would take another look at the bandwagon voters on me. And I still have this note to myself to look at the Hal voters.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 12:48:24 GMT -5
Vote Astral Rejection<vote bleached> <snip> So, Astral could be contributing more. Especially since he dropped out of my game to play this one... wink wink nudge nudge no grudge just scummy behavior there Astral mah boy. So, "lynch the lurker" is the best you've got right now? I mean, if that's how you want to go, so be it -- I know my personal bias against LTL (lurkers are 99% townies with crappy roles, not scum) is coloring this -- but you don't have any read on any of the current candidates? Yes I do. I already stated that I think peekercpa is full of the baloney. I'm getting town reads on some folks' posts, but I'd prefer not to shout from the rooftops who I don't intend to vote for as that just helps the scum pick who to murder. I have also stated, kinda explicitly, that I think there are some actual scums on the Pleo wagon, in the generic. Specifically, I'm voting for Astral Rejection who is also not posting a whole lot, ducking the radar, who with 4 posts is not inactive, but definitely ducking discussion, which is where I feel most scums will hide if they choose to hide at all. Now, I can only assume you're not reading, or not comprehending, my posts or you would have gleaned all this already. Is this an accurate assessment?
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 13:02:22 GMT -5
First, you seem awfully sure of your opinion on who wants Pleo killed, for someone who then turns around and says that you didn't bother reading his claimed powers very closely. Why is that? Why what? Didn't I read his claimed powers closely? Because I had exactly 10 minutes to catch up on this thread before work the other day and I was skimming like a mofo. I also have a severe dose of too lazy to go back and find it. My opinion on who wants Pleo killed is that folks who vote for him want him dead. Call me crazy. Well, here we go: You seem to be more worried and threatened by Pleo's role than anyone else in the game, including the others voting for him. That piques my interest, because in my mind, the people who are most threatened by an essentially random killer are the factions with the fewest members. I.e., scumbags. This much I agree with. Not just for being on the Pleo wagon, but posts 661 and 666 ping me. If I'm looking at the Pleo voters and putting them in a hastily assembled most to least scummy, Sinjin is in the topmost section. The reasons are mostly generic and could apply to others in that same section. Differentiating between those candidates will require specifics, and those will have to come when I can tell them apart. That will take observation and therefore more time.
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 7, 2012 13:11:05 GMT -5
We can certainly negotiate without ironclad proof, and indeed without trust. But what exactly are the terms? You want Town to offer you 'continued existence for the remainder of the game'. And in return you are offering to 'not kill too many of us'. And we just have to take your word for it that when you achieve your win condition, that we don't suffer immediate defeat. You're not really paying attention, are you? But are simply taking the position "I don't like Pleonast's playstyle so I'm going to lynch them". Multiple times I've made my offer. ToDay, if I'm not lynched, I will target with my one-shot Day-kill whoever has the secondmost votes. ToMorrow, if I'm not lynched, I will use another power, and report on it the next Day. And we can continue like that, one Day at time. There doesn't need to be any trust beyond the current Day. If you are willing to allow me to play with my objection to the tactic I will. Otherwise sub me. What is it with this "play the way I think you should" attitude that some players have? If it's not against the rules, it's valid play. Be tolerant of other's approaches to the game; it's the differences that make it fun. I was starting to come around on my Pleo vote after Story said the generic thing was meant for role reveals only. However, then Pleo announced he was using his day kill power to off Ed instead of the lynch runner up. Again a unilateral decision and again one I don't agree with. I don't get a scummy vibe off of Ed at this point at all. Which given the efficacy of my scum-dar means Ed's probably scum. My Day-kill of the runner-up is contingent on me not being lynched. I can't cooperate with the town if the town doesn't cooperate with me. If someone else is lynched, I will use my Day-kill on the runner-up. About Ed, I'm not sure why you think they're not scummy. The way the vote count is now, Ed is set to die. They don't seem to care. Does that apathy seem townie to you?
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 13:14:18 GMT -5
@ Pleo- that was essentially my point. I am tolerant of others' approach to the game and am willing to play with those who use a different tactic. Myself, I'm not going to use that tactic, and I'd ask that people respect my difference in the matter.
So I agree with you on that. you've got me backwards, I think.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 7, 2012 13:17:00 GMT -5
Multiple times I've made my offer. ToDay, if I'm not lynched, I will target with my one-shot Day-kill whoever has the secondmost votes. ToMorrow, if I'm not lynched, I will use another power, and report on it the next Day. And we can continue like that, one Day at time. There doesn't need to be any trust beyond the current Day. <snipped> i thought at some point you said you were going to kill ed. i don't think he is in second place.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 7, 2012 13:17:32 GMT -5
Why is Ed set to die? He has only one vote, while Hal and Texcat are tied in 2nd with 4 votes each.
And heck, here's a question: If those players are still tied for 2nd at the end of the Day, which would you kill and why?
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 7, 2012 13:18:32 GMT -5
@ Pleo- that was essentially my point. I am tolerant of others' approach to the game and am willing to play with those who use a different tactic. Myself, I'm not going to use that tactic, and I'd ask that people respect my difference in the matter. So I agree with you on that. you've got me backwards, I think. Thanks for clarifying. I thought you were saying you'd quit rather than play because of others' choices. Multiple times I've made my offer. ToDay, if I'm not lynched, I will target with my one-shot Day-kill whoever has the secondmost votes. ToMorrow, if I'm not lynched, I will use another power, and report on it the next Day. And we can continue like that, one Day at time. There doesn't need to be any trust beyond the current Day. <snipped> i thought at some point you said you were going to kill ed. i don't think he is in second place. Try reading for comprehension.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 7, 2012 13:20:31 GMT -5
neta: whoops. i get it you will kill the second place vote getter if you are not lynched, if you get lynched you kill ed, right? but you win no matter if you are dead or not depending on other conditions. seems to me like you would want to eliminate those that stand in the way of your wincon. or does ed meet that criteria? if so, how?
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 13:22:20 GMT -5
I would. E willing to switch from Pleo to texcat. I've already expressed my dislike of the defensiveness.
I don't want it to appear like I'm doing so to appease Pleo who is directly threatening me. And Pleo does need to die at some point if not investigated as 3rd party by someone confirmed. Which I see as unlikely. I also don't want an investigator to waste time on him.
I can also see the case for leaving him alive. But he has to be chained to act as the consensus wants him to, not as he wants to. So far he's offered one course of action and doesn't seem willing to negotiate. While refusing to negotiate is certainly his choice, it doesn't make me feel like I can trust him even now.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 7, 2012 13:23:29 GMT -5
You're not really paying attention, are you? But are simply taking the position "I don't like Pleonast's playstyle so I'm going to lynch them". I'm paying attention just fine, thanks. True, I don't care for your play-style (speaking of this game this game specifically, not as a blanket statement), but that is not why I'm voting to lynch you. I am actually capable of differentiating between someone who 'plays in a way that I personally disagree with' and 'is likely a threat to Town'. I don't trust that you're being honest about your role. I don't think we can afford to have you alive at End Game, so we must somehow get rid of you at some point between 'now' and 'then'. Since I don't trust you, and you are claiming a variety of powers that can both directly and indirectly kill Town, some of which you have no personal control over even if you are being completely honest, I think that best thing is to eliminate you 'now'. There isn't any trust Today; that's the point. If i trusted you, I might be less likely to be trying to lynch you.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 13:30:06 GMT -5
I don't want it to appear like I'm doing so to appease Pleo who is directly threatening me. Do I detect the pungent scent of cold nervous sweat, Oh specialest of eds?
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Post by Mahaloth on Mar 7, 2012 13:31:14 GMT -5
Unvote Rysto
I really dislike that rysto has disappeared and I hate to reward any kind of lurking, but my case is based on some early stuff that really isn't relevant. Rysto has dropped to #2 on my list, but I am still suspicious.
Vote Texcat
Texcat was #2 for me ever since post #589, which was very odd(it's the one where he is suspicious of Chronos acronym thing, but posts anyway).
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Post by Mahaloth on Mar 7, 2012 13:32:18 GMT -5
Oh, and I find it incredibly, incredibly, lame that Stickler has kept the joke vote on me, having slapped together a quick little list of other stuff to justify not removing what was obviously just a goofy, fun vote.
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Post by Askthepizzaguy on Mar 7, 2012 13:41:21 GMT -5
As someone reminded me, your unvote needs to be bold and red to count, Maha.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 13:41:58 GMT -5
I don't want it to appear like I'm doing so to appease Pleo who is directly threatening me. Do I detect the pungent scent of cold nervous sweat, Oh specialest of eds? Well, I'd rather live than die. But I still believe Pleo must be dealt with
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Post by sinjin on Mar 7, 2012 13:42:34 GMT -5
Multiple times I've made my offer. ToDay, if I'm not lynched, I will target with my one-shot Day-kill whoever has the secondmost votes. ToMorrow, if I'm not lynched, I will use another power, and report on it the next Day. And we can continue like that, one Day at time. There doesn't need to be any trust beyond the current Day. I was starting to come around on my Pleo vote after Story said the generic thing was meant for role reveals only. However, then Pleo announced he was using his day kill power to off Ed instead of the lynch runner up. Again a unilateral decision and again one I don't agree with. I don't get a scummy vibe off of Ed at this point at all. Which given the efficacy of my scum-dar means Ed's probably scum. My Day-kill of the runner-up is contingent on me not being lynched. I can't cooperate with the town if the town doesn't cooperate with me. If someone else is lynched, I will use my Day-kill on the runner-up. About Ed, I'm not sure why you think they're not scummy. The way the vote count is now, Ed is set to die. They don't seem to care. Does that apathy seem townie to you? See here's the problem, I don't see why you are so all fired ready to use your day kill power. I and at least one other don't think you should. I never agreed with the lynch runner up thing, which you announced UNILATERLY. And I most certainly don't agree with the Ed day kill, which you announced UNILATERLY because I am not getting scum vibes off him. What exactly do you expect Ed to do when you just decide that you're going to off him toDay. Beg you not to do it? Would that help? I've played several games with the new Ed and find him quite funny. And several of the things he's posted this game when he's not being silly have seemed townish to me. I personally like the silly because the more I play this game the less seriously I take it. I'm playing for fun and if it's not fun any more I'm not going to play. @pizzaguy: Why are you suspicious of me for being willing to take my vote off of Pleo if he does as I ask and the majority of the rest of town agrees too? One of my strongest points against him originally, aside from the generic thing, was his UNILATERAL decisions about how to use his power. If your trying to make a deal with town you don't get to call the shots, IMHO.
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 7, 2012 13:42:51 GMT -5
Why is Ed set to die? He has only one vote, while Hal and Texcat are tied in 2nd with 4 votes each. And heck, here's a question: If those players are still tied for 2nd at the end of the Day, which would you kill and why? Ed is set to die because they will be my Day-kill target if I'm lynched. My offer of a second lynch depends on me not being lynched. Avoid making a tie for second and there won't be an issue. neta: whoops. i get it you will kill the second place vote getter if you are not lynched, if you get lynched you kill ed, right? but you win no matter if you are dead or not depending on other conditions. seems to me like you would want to eliminate those that stand in the way of your wincon. or does ed meet that criteria? if so, how? My criteria for my Day-kill if given the freedom to use it as I will, is to take out the player I think should be lynched. Right now, that's Ed. I can also see the case for leaving him alive. But he has to be chained to act as the consensus wants him to, not as he wants to. So far he's offered one course of action and doesn't seem willing to negotiate. While refusing to negotiate is certainly his choice, it doesn't make me feel like I can trust him even now. That's a fair complaint, but there's really no other practical way for me to negotiate with an inchoate mass of players. It's easiest for me to make an offer, and the mass either refuses it or not, by lynching me or not. If we get to a point where there's a confirmed townie, I'll let them direct me. I'm paying attention just fine, thanks. Then why were you asking what my offer was, after I had already made it several times?
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 13:51:35 GMT -5
Offer no day kill toDay. It lengthens the time you need to win, yes. But it also just might lengthen the time you get to live to achieve your win condition.
I am certain that we can find a suitable second target toMorrow
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Post by Dirx on Mar 7, 2012 13:52:23 GMT -5
You know, for someone who said he wanted to work with town, you sure as fuck aren't acting very cooperative.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 7, 2012 13:52:43 GMT -5
NETA: That was directed at Pleo, not Ed.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 7, 2012 13:53:54 GMT -5
Ah Pollux Oil. I can see your strategic ideas are quite refined. ;D Ba-dmp-psh! Am I reading this wrong or did you type it back-asswards? Might be reading it wrong, but I'll clarify: Pleo is either third-party or PFK, this is agreed on by most people. People that are lynching him think he is too dangerous to live. But third-party is not an obstruction to the town win condition; only PFK is. Also, Pleo is going to use his Killing Joke power today. He is primed to use it on Ed, who I believe is most likely a town player. If we lynch Pleo and he is PFK, but he kills a townie (Ed, maybe, unconfirmed until death) it's a victory for town but at a cost. We've gotten rid of an obstruction to our win, but it's also a victory for scum because we got rid of an obstruction for them as well. If we lynch Pleo and he is third-party, and he kills a townie (still Ed, still unconfirmed) it's a loss for the town because we eliminated someone who isn't against our win condition AND we lost a town. Essentially we've mislynched and knocked the total living players down by two, moving forward the scum win condition. That's a victory for the scum. The essential problem right now is we'll never know if Pleo is third-party or PFK until he's dead. I'd much rather force the scum to kill him so we know, or let a vig kill him. Hell, Batman may have his own way of dealing with the Joker if Batman isn't scum this time around.
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Post by special on Mar 7, 2012 13:56:56 GMT -5
Offer no day kill toDay. It lengthens the time you need to win, yes. But it also just might lengthen the time you get to live to achieve your win condition. I am certain that we can find a suitable second target toMorrow You know, after reading what I wrote....I have to disagree with myself. Resolving our top 2 lynch candidates is a good thing. The only drawback is potentially creating 2 claims and a last minute vote change rush
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