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Post by Drain Bead on Mar 8, 2012 10:49:56 GMT -5
What I wanted to ask you (but failed a bit was) why you switched your vote? What do you expect to gain from it? A Sinjin-vote at this time if the Day seem like a cast-a-way vote. Does this mean you firmly believe TexCat's claim? Texcat's claim is verifiable and testable. I'd rather not lynch a claimed Town Vig; we have ways of seeing whether the claim is true. At best, if she's lying she gets a momentary reprieve, and if she's telling the truth we have a living Vig. At worst, we lose the Vig, which is highly ironic given what dominated a great deal of our early conversation in this game. I am not a fan of the Pleonast wagon; I never have been. I am also not a fan of voting for Hal. My best option is to vote the person who I find the most suspicious, and hope others go along with it.
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 10:58:21 GMT -5
There's no way in the world that we should be lynching TexCat today. But Vig? Almost anything but Vig is easier to handle. It makes the most sense for a killer to claim in case they get watched or tracked. Of course if that was the role she got.... I guess with 30 people multiple killing is possible. Killing is one of the things I can do, though not unlimited (and not powered by secret breadcrumbs, my votes, anyone else's votes or anything like that Meeko, don't flip out.) Can someone find what ra al guhl was in game one?
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 10:59:51 GMT -5
i'm going to get all contrary now. lynching a town vig is kind of silly. but if pleo is indeed telling the truth then she gets it in the neck toDay since he most likely goes down toNight if not. so i guess those folks that are all trusting of pleo will immediately switch to tex to allow pleo to use his 3rd party Day kill in a pro town manner by killing hal rather than lynching pleo and losing ed to boot.
sheesh
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 11:00:56 GMT -5
Can someone also check on texcat's contributions to the Vig conversation. I'm sorry but I won't be able to access from a computer until after DayEnd
I also need to look back over her discussion of pleo's claim
Wouldn't it be very ironic if the two of them were dueling serial killers like in evil dead
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 11:03:05 GMT -5
i'm going to get all contrary now. lynching a town vig is kind of silly. but if pleo is indeed telling the truth then she gets it in the neck toDay since he most likely goes down toNight if not. so i guess those folks that are all trusting of pleo will immediately switch to tex to allow pleo to use his 3rd party Day kill in a pro town manner by killing hal rather than lynching pleo and losing ed to boot. sheesh Scum bus drivers role blockers protectors or redirectors could mess with texcat killing Pleo.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:05:51 GMT -5
i'm going to get all contrary now. lynching a town vig is kind of silly. but if pleo is indeed telling the truth then she gets it in the neck toDay since he most likely goes down toNight if not. so i guess those folks that are all trusting of pleo will immediately switch to tex to allow pleo to use his 3rd party Day kill in a pro town manner by killing hal rather than lynching pleo and losing ed to boot. sheesh Scum bus drivers role blockers protectors or redirectors could mess with texcat killing Pleo. so now you think pleo is scum or working for them.
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 11:10:58 GMT -5
Scum bus drivers role blockers protectors or redirectors could mess with texcat killing Pleo. so now you think pleo is scum or working for them. No but the scum might want Pleo alive so we waste a lynch on him. And they might want to redirect texcat to a juicier target for them
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Mar 8, 2012 11:16:47 GMT -5
Can someone find what ra al guhl was in game one? Vote charger. Iirc, if I voted for the lynchee one Day, then the next Day I could power up another player's vote somehow. (No, I can't remember exactly what limits I had, but that was the gist of it.)
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:19:37 GMT -5
so now you think pleo is scum or working for them. No but the scum might want Pleo alive so we waste a lynch on him. And they might want to redirect texcat to a juicier target for them but i thought you were in the crowd that is kind of taking the tack that sure we need to lynch him. just not toDay since we can harness him and have him do our bidding to our advantage. we'll just take care of him later, right? and i make a dangerous assumption that you don't want to lynch a claimed town discretionary vig - one of the strongest town roles. which means hal is in the noose and pleo looks to have about a choice of six second place folks on who to DK. this is working out swimmingly.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:20:48 GMT -5
neta: six is actually four.
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 11:24:15 GMT -5
No but the scum might want Pleo alive so we waste a lynch on him. And they might want to redirect texcat to a juicier target for them but i thought you were in the crowd that is kind of taking the tack that sure we need to lynch him. just not toDay since we can harness him and have him do our bidding to our advantage. we'll just take care of him later, right? and i make a dangerous assumption that you don't want to lynch a claimed town discretionary vig - one of the strongest town roles. which means hal is in the noose and pleo looks to have about a choice of six second place folks on who to DK. this is working out swimmingly. Yes but I'm hopeful that the scum are unable to block redirect or otherwise interfere with pleo's day kill. I'm not so confident the same could be said about a vigilante's night kill. It also would provide great cover for texcat on why her kill didn't go where it should. I don't trust texcat yet. It's a convenient claim at a late hour. And it might have come after Pleo put in his day kill order anyway
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 8, 2012 11:26:53 GMT -5
I have a vote on Hal and I am not sure it's on the right person. If I was sure then I would be scum. I do know that he activated another of Pleos' powers which I would certainly not have done. He already has enough power. I know Peeks was thinking of doing the same thing but either he couldn't be arsed or he knew that it could be bad for Town, either way he didn't do it and Hal did.
I'm not too happy with the votes on the top 2 people, I think scum might be manipulating things a wee bit.
I probably won't be around at EOD as it is Midnight here but I still have a few hours left in which to change my vote should I wish to do so.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:27:33 GMT -5
so yeh. we lynch someone not pleo which means that second place not pleo gets killed. or most likely tex regardless where they rank and we lose our discretionary vig (did i mention this is a pretty sweet town role). or we lynch pleo and lose ed or maybe pleo just goes all vindictive and shit and takes out tex anyways just out of spite. in which case he wasn't to be trusted in the first place and should have been lynched anyways.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 8, 2012 11:28:02 GMT -5
Just a nitpick: "Whoever said a picture was worth a thousand words... is about to see just how badly he miscounted." is what Wikiquotes (which is where you can find the Joker's Quote) attributes the actual quote to Ra's Al Ghul, not the one you just used TexCat. So either boo to you, or Boo on Storyteller for getting the quote wrong. But even if you are faking it, I think the risk of lynching a possible claimed townie is worse than the risk of lynching a claimed non-Townie. I'm still happier with my vote on Pleo, and feel that TextCat should get a nice through looking over on Day 2 rather than trying to re-hash stuff for dealing with Pleo again another Day. We'll have more data, and we'll have more time to go through with seeing what TexCat has said. Plus, if there's a Townie Vig out there who feels TexCat is lying... well, he hasn't claimed any extra NK weirdness. So FOS TexCat for toMorrow, vote Pleo now is where I think I'll be sticking with. Especially since we're so close to the day ending and I know I'll be trying to apply for jobs this afternoon and will miss the NightFall.
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 8, 2012 11:28:57 GMT -5
What is IIRC, in my head I have it as "If I Recall Correctly"?
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 11:38:46 GMT -5
If texcat is honest, it is probably better to lynch Pleo and lose me. While my powers are not insignificant, I can't say it will be easy to use correctly. I also don't think we can get a third bandwagon up there to enough votes.
However, if texcat is lying, that all changes. Better to lynch her and chain Pleo and lose Hal whose alignment is unknown.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:46:13 GMT -5
Yes but I'm hopeful that the scum are unable to block redirect or otherwise interfere with pleo's day kill. I'm not so confident the same could be said about a vigilante's night kill. It also would provide great cover for texcat on why her kill didn't go where it should. I don't trust texcat yet. It's a convenient claim at a late hour. And it might have come after Pleo put in his day kill order anyway if pleo has already submitted his Day Kill (assuming he is telling the truth depending on timing) that means that you, hal or tex already has a shot out at you. and sure if scum have a redirector that makes tex problematic. but since the claim is discretionary i'd just as soon have scum using a Night action on someone that sits on their hands than creating havoc elsewhere. and maybe this is too meta gamey and i certainly don't want to piss anyone off but .... tex seems to be a damn cautious type player. also seems to tend to play way conservative. i can see a tex wringing their hands over oh noes should i claim should i not type of decision. plus the votes have just been slowly piling up. additionally, i can see tex kind of thinking that no way is town going to let a 3rd party that can hurt them get away. and even if i come in second ed is in the cross hairs not me.
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 8, 2012 11:47:07 GMT -5
I'm not going to be held hostage by Pleo. I'd rather get him now, and if it means that he has to take Ed with him, then (1) I hope Ed isn't Town; and (2) if Ed is Town, then as far as I'm concerned we're still limiting the damage that Pleo is capable of doing.
I do think it's sort of silly and spiteful for Pleo to take someone out as he dies, but whatever.
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Post by Pleonast on Mar 8, 2012 11:48:45 GMT -5
There's a lot of posts, so I'm just skimming through for now. Sorry if I miss something important. but does town really want to be held hostage by someone that is almost certainly not town? just seems odd that town wants to put trust in a player that is not on their side. I think you're confused about who's holding who hostage. I surrendered to town, making myself easy to lynch or be Night-killed. I'm the hostage. If I don't do what the town says, I die. And you'll note that I can't kill players directly, except for the one-shot power I'm using ToDay (and giving Town the option to choose the target). All of my other powers are reactive or depend on someone else to choose the target. A short digression on Mahaloth's "case" against me: it's crap. Voting for somebody because you disagree with them on a matter of strategy is just ridiculous, especially when you haven't even bothered arguing the merits of the proposal. Where's the discussion of scum motivation? Where's any evidence that he thought about that vote at all? It's completely absent. I agree with this completely, and if I hadn't been distracted by other things, I'd be complaining a lot about it. The underlined part sorta wierded me out. Batman might not be scum??? If that's the case, then I don't know what to believe anymore. This statement feels like the sort of feigned surprise that scum use to appear town. Whether or not Chronos is lying about some or part of what he has disclosed about himself, there are potential unseen risks to Town. Assuming that he is lying is a part of doing a risk assessment that is worth a damn, imho. So is assuming that he is telling the truth, and there are potential benefits to the Town from the gambit if so as well. I think I know why we always grate each other every game. Our basic game philosophies are different. Your focus is risk minimization. Mine is opportunity maximization. The Town require any PFK's to be dead. The Scum require any malicious third parties to be dead. "PFK" and "malicious third party" are the same thing in this game. Note that I only have one power to directly kill. Alright. I still don't like Pleo's actions. I think that the offer to kill the runner-up is a good start, but I would have liked to see a little more cooperation. At the very least, some consideration in case of ties or scenarios where the runner-up is poor target (based on claims or behaviour) but got stuck there anyway for whatever reason. Essentially saying "Not my problem, you figure it out" is not what he should be saying if he's going to rely on us to let him work toward his wincon. I also think his reasoning for targetting Ed in the case of his own lynch is flat-out ridiculous. If you don't trust me, why should you give me any discretion by allowing a tie for second place? Either trust me to choose wisely in case of a tie, or don't give me a choice. Texcat's claim is verifiable and testable. I'd rather not lynch a claimed Town Vig; we have ways of seeing whether the claim is true. At best, if she's lying she gets a momentary reprieve, and if she's telling the truth we have a living Vig. At worst, we lose the Vig, which is highly ironic given what dominated a great deal of our early conversation in this game. No, texcat's power is verifiable. But their alignment claim is as verifiable as mine. Which is to say not very. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ So we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to be able to kill someone of their own choice every Night. And we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to have a grabbag of powers that can kill indirectly. Which is a more direct threat to town? ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I'll be on again around my lunchtime.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:51:48 GMT -5
Just a nitpick: "Whoever said a picture was worth a thousand words... is about to see just how badly he miscounted." is what Wikiquotes (which is where you can find the Joker's Quote) attributes the actual quote to Ra's Al Ghul, not the one you just used TexCat. So either boo to you, or Boo on Storyteller for getting the quote wrong. <snipped> oh ffs. are we going to have go through the whole punctuation thing again?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 8, 2012 11:53:07 GMT -5
I trust that he's truthful about his powers and truthful about what he's going to do. I don't trust that he's third-party and not PFK, and I don't trust the number of kills needed to reach his wincon. Your ridiculous overreaction aside, I note you didn't address the meat of my comment: scum most likely will not try to kill Pleonast, at least in the forseeable short term. It is therefore incumbent on us to get rid of him before he can start racking up kills, if we want to. I accept that there are disagreements about this, and I find Texcat a lovely lynch choice. I've stated my position. Just because we disagree, doesn't mean I'm unconditionally wrong. My reaction wasn't ridiculous, and I noticed you completely ignored the fact that I wasn't skimming and you were overexaggerating his Nightkill immunity, so we're even. Scum want to control the killing. Sure, they may not want Pleo dead immediately, but the longer they leave him alive the better chances there are that he'll hit one of them with his powers. Wincon aside, scum will want Pleo dead eventually. I'm aware the chances of them trying to kill him toNight are slim, but I was more focused on him being available to the vig. I was trying to subtly hint to the vig to go after Pleo toNight. --- Speaking of Vig! Hey texcat! What a convenient claim! I don't really know what to make of this. It's pretty much the exact claim a non-town agent would want to use in this situation. The lateness of it doesn't surprise me as texcat pulled the same thing when claiming in Conspiracy (although she was scum then). My problems with the texcat wagon is that texcat is always scummy to me. I don't think I've ever been in a game where I wasn't suspicious of her. She gets an inordinate amount of attention nearly every game. I think it's just her playstyle. Although now that I'm thinking about it, I think she's always been scum in any game I've played previously with her. That...would explain things. Huh. What I find interesting about her role PM as quoted is that, unlike the Joker's PM, there's no direct mention of Batman. Instead it's people "taking up his work." If she is pro-town as she claims, that's another point in favor of Batman not being scum-aligned this time. I'm going to hesitantly believe texcat's claim. If it comes down to it, I'd rather see Pleo lynched over her, although I still disagree with not using Pleo to our full advantage first.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 11:57:21 GMT -5
So we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to be able to kill someone of their own choice every Night. And we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to have a grabbag of powers that can kill indirectly. Which is a more direct threat to town? nope. we have a player with a claimed town alignment that has a discretionary ability to act in town's best interest and we have a player of claimed not town alignment with an ability that will be used in town's interest as long as we do what they say.
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 12:20:12 GMT -5
So we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to be able to kill someone of their own choice every Night. And we have a player of unknown alignment who claims to have a grabbag of powers that can kill indirectly. Which is a more direct threat to town? nope. we have a player with a claimed town alignment that has a discretionary ability to act in town's best interest and we have a player of claimed not town alignment with an ability that will be used in town's interest as long as we do what they say. What would you say the odds are that texcat is Town? What claim would you make if you were Scum or SK and facing a lynch?
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Post by special on Mar 8, 2012 12:21:37 GMT -5
Where does texcat's claimed name fall on the good to evil scale in this universe?
And Chronos, that's not the name you know isn't in the game, is it?
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Post by Chronos on Mar 8, 2012 12:23:06 GMT -5
Y'know, I would have expected an honest claim of Vigilante to have come with some discussion on how that person might use her powers, and how, if at all, she might coordinate with Town (especially considering the topic that dominated discussion before Pleo's claim). I also would have expected such a claim to come early enough to give us time to discuss such. And no, ten hours isn't enough time for that discussion, if the principle person involved isn't going to be able to be a part of it-- She says that she won't be around for the end of Day, and that she's off to work as of the only post she made after that.
Now, ordinarily, Vig is a risky false claim for Scum, since if there's a real vigilante, e's likely to just shoot the claimant that Night. But in this game, we expect to have a decent number of killers who all work a little differently, so Scum might have decided to risk it.
My vote remains on TexCat.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 8, 2012 12:24:56 GMT -5
VOTE COUNT - OFFICIAL - THURSDAY PM
Pleonast (10 votes) - Cookies (357), Nanook (359), texcat (382), astralrejection (407), SBrOwn (419), Gadarene (436), sinjin (448), BillMc (449), Suburban Plankton (455), peekercpa (738)
texcat (9 votes) - Total Ullz (411), Hal Briston (458), Special Ed (692), Mahaloth (702), Inner Stickler (705), Chronos (741), Rysto (749), askthepizzaguy (754), Dirx (757)
Hal Briston (4 votes) - Pollux Oil (271), Lightfoot (283), Silver Jan (300), Meeko (345)
Drain Bead (1 vote) - guiri (140)
Special Ed (1 vote) - Pleonast (237)
Cookies (1 vote) – gnarlycharly (432)
sinjin (1 vote) - Drain Bead (770)[/i]
------------------------------------
Day Ends - TODAY - Thursday, March 8, @5:00PM EST
In four and a half hours. Please be reminded that all Day actions must be received before 5:00PM EST or they will be lost.
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Also, because I've been asked: Please be advised that contingent power uses (ie, I'll do A if B, but I'll do X if Y) are permitted. It is required that B or Y be information that an online player with no special information would know at the time of submission. The moderator will make the final call on all such cases. [/b]
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Post by Chronos on Mar 8, 2012 12:26:39 GMT -5
Alas, no.
And in the Batman universe, Ra's al Gul is most definitely a villain (he was even the main villain in Batman Begins), and probably the most dangerous of Batman's usual rogues' gallery. Then again, he's the sort who, if he were in Arkham at all, it'd be in the front office running the place, not as an inmate, so I'm not sure how well he fits the flavor of this game.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 8, 2012 12:33:13 GMT -5
Quoted from texcat’s posted PM
In Arabic, your name translates, approximately, to "Head of the Demon;" if anything, this underestimates how dangerous you are. For longer than any citizen of Gotham city has been alive, you have commanded the League of Assassins - an international brotherhood dedicated to cleansing the sins of humanity, by any means necessary.
Nowhere on Earth are those sins placed into more stark relief than the place called Gotham City. There the worst of humanity runs free, and even those who fight against them have grown weak and helpless. Over the years, you crossed blades dozens of times with the chief protector of Gotham, the Detective - the Batman. Once you thought him a potential ally - perhaps even a successor - but it was long ago clear that you could never be anything but mortal enemies. Now he has gone, and others have picked up his work, trying to preserve what should not be preserved, trying to save what long ago chose to move beyond saving.
The would-be saviors of Gotham must be stopped. Permanently. Once they are, Gotham can be left to drown in its own vile excess. So must it be.
Good luck! ~~~~~~~~~~~~ ( bolding mine)
Wouldn’t Town be the “ would be survivors”? this could well be a doctored PM
or do you read it different?
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 8, 2012 12:34:30 GMT -5
nope. we have a player with a claimed town alignment that has a discretionary ability to act in town's best interest and we have a player of claimed not town alignment with an ability that will be used in town's interest as long as we do what they say. What would you say the odds are that texcat is Town? What claim would you make if you were Scum or SK and facing a lynch? north of 50 percent. either niller, watcher or tracker.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 8, 2012 12:35:18 GMT -5
NETA survivors=saviors
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