Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:03:47 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 12:03:47 GMT -5
Oh one final point: If we assume I am scum, you now know that I have the ability to change votes. I won't be able to get away with it anymore or I'll be detected. I really don't see how lynching me is worth the risk. Then again, I've been pretty frustrated with this game ever since the Special Ed incident. I blame bad parenting. This post sounds like "Scum wouldn't do that". In my mind, if you are scum, all you would have to do is not use your power until some critical game changing moment. I agree. But there a huge difference between lynch me now (with more information to be had) and in 2-3 days. I'm not saying that I shouldn't be lynched at some point - I just don't see the reason to do so on day one. But I'm sure scum is having a field day over you guys right now.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:11:44 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 4, 2009 12:11:44 GMT -5
I'd much rather see nphase dead, but that just doesn't appear to be in the cards. If you think nphase is scummier than Bill, and you think she should be lynched toDay, then you should be making your case and voting her toDay and not putting your vote on Bill.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:27:47 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 12:27:47 GMT -5
I'd much rather see nphase dead, but that just doesn't appear to be in the cards. If you think nphase is scummier than Bill, and you think she should be lynched toDay, then you should be making your case and voting her toDay and not putting your vote on Bill. I've been making the case of my innocense for almost a week now, but for deaf ears. Even if I had a strong case, there would be no point. Most of my suspicion on nphase is based on how my words have been misunderstood and how bad he/she wants to lynch me. I doubt anyone would be swayed in the last 3 hours. I have no further case to make, but reserve the right to say "I told you so"
|
|
Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:34:33 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 4, 2009 12:34:33 GMT -5
I want to try and put in my vote now.
Vote: Pedescribe
Why Pedescribe? Because, of the people who have come under pressure Today, he is the most likely (imo) to be a Pirate.
Chucara and Bill have, when pressed, come out with fairly coherent claims. It took some time for Chucara's to come clear. I will note that all the games I've ever seen with a Politician list the names of the players voting. CIAS is not doing this, for some (doubtless nefarious) reason. The requirement for a link to a post where Chucara places a vote may simply be a limitation on the Politician's power, forcing him to commit his own vote.
If he's Town-aligned, he's a threat to the Mafia in the long game. Neutralising a suspect Mafia's vote is worth about half a mislynch. In short, by leaving him alive we force the Mafia to waste time dealing with him.
Bill's claim is fairly straightforward. He claims to kill at Night, for us Passengers. Again, if true, he's a threat to the Mafia, and therefore they'll have to kill him.
Now Pedescribe. "An Investigator, of sorts," is not a claim. It's a smokescreen. Anyone can make that sort of claim, even Mafia.
Then there's what I shall call "the Pedescribe problem." Specifically, that he is known to lie, even when Town, for no real reason. Therefore why should I trust him when he says he's an investigator? Even the Pirates are "an investigator, of sorts." They kill a player, and find out what their role and alignment are.
The last instance did not even confuse the group it was aimed at for one minute. He claimed, in Day 4 of Conspiracy 3, to be a Seer. The Cabal had tested him on Night 2; since he got a reading with his Night 2 power, we concluded he was almost certainly a Witch. All his claim did was raise a few eyebrows.
I need to break for tea soon. When I get back, I'll review the Day (again).
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:35:25 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 4, 2009 12:35:25 GMT -5
I have no further case to make, but reserve the right to say "I told you so" Well, we all reserve the right to say that, at any time. Unofficial Vote CountChucara lynch: 5 - Chucara (dirx, natlaw, nphase, sinjin, skeezix) 4 - BillMc (BillMc [via Chucara], Chucara, Kat!, pedescribe) 3 - pedescribe (Special Ed, Pleonast, SisterCoyote) 2 - nphase (shaggy, Storyteller) 1 - Guy Incognito (Guy Incognito) - natlaw (Idle Thoughts) - sinjin [STEVE] (peekercpa)
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:36:24 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 4, 2009 12:36:24 GMT -5
/me shakes fist at mhaye for sneaking in there.
So pede has four votes, now.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:38:44 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 12:38:44 GMT -5
Technically, I could be a bastard and force a no lynch now. If you think I'm scum, either vote for me, or vote for someone else. I am town however, and I think town is better of with the information than with my power. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll switch.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:43:48 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 12:43:48 GMT -5
I'm saying that I to some degree understand why you think I am scum. I am also saying that you aren't sure. And that you are risking a town power role on your false assumptions. I'm just asking if the pros really outweight the cons. The cons being that in less than 4 hours you'll have a dead town vote switcher. The way I play the game (not saying that I'm right) is that if I'm voting for a claimed power role in a vanilla game, I want damn good reasons to do so. I really don't see any of those. It's been asked before, but what's your "damned good reason" as regards Bill? So far it seems to come down to one sentence he wrote. And his claimed power is a lot stronger for Town than yours is. Would you quit that? If you flip Town, people are going to be all over me with a fine-tooth comb whether you help them out or not. I'd much rather see nphase dead, but that just doesn't appear to be in the cards. Ridiculous. I'm only a couple of votes behind you. It'd be one less if you were voting for me instead of BillMc. You're making no sense. I'm about to put the fox amongst the chickens, because I'm going to do what I'm very, very opposed to without a Damn Good Reason (like, about to be lynched good). Something I've already argued against in this game. I'm going to claim. But I'm going to claim because Town needs to know that there is likely a third party among us. My name is Lucy, and I am a specialist in alien life forms. There was a protean entity on the ship who I was trying to track down before we were attacked. It is possible, but unlikely, that this entity died in the attack. I have the ability to track them down, but it may take a few Nights. Unfortunately, I have no way to prove my claim without dying or finding the alien. If I'm reading my role PM correctly, I, personally, am immune to being "controlled" by the alien. I'm partially making this claim now to ask Scum not to kill me. You need me to find the parasitic alien as badly as Town does. I am Town, but both sides need me just at the moment. I really, really think Town needs this information, but after my unprovoked claim in Alpha Centauri, and the fallout from that, I'm really, really skittish about it. Which is why I've waited this long. Well, all righty then. I assume if there's anyone (else) out there with the ability to detect parasitic aliens, they'll have a gander at SisC, just in case? I don't even want to think about the other implications. If you think nphase is scummier than Bill, and you think she should be lynched toDay, then you should be making your case and voting her toDay and not putting your vote on Bill. Quoted for truth, even if it is half suicidal. I'm also not a claimed Town power role.; Bill is. Chucara, you can erase your rationale for people looking at me based on post #340, because I retract it. I'm whole-heartedly for your lynch now, because you're acting in a fashion that I can't in the least account for, if you're Town. By every bit of your own logic, you should be voting for me right now, yet you're not.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:44:41 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 12:44:41 GMT -5
Technically, I could be a bastard and force a no lynch now. If you think I'm scum, either vote for me, or vote for someone else. I am town however, and I think town is better of with the information than with my power. Correct me if I'm wrong and I'll switch. Oh please. Threats now?
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:46:11 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 12:46:11 GMT -5
NETA to post 367: Whoops, chopped too much from my fancy multi-quotes. First three quotes were by Chucara; last two by SisterCoyote.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 12:57:11 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 12:57:11 GMT -5
nphase: I'm sorry if I'm voicing my suspicions before I go, but as you accuse me, am I not free to accuse you? I'm thinking your problem is that you know I will be confirmed town.
Also if you really are town, what would be the problem with you being under scrutiny? You have nothing to hide, do you?
However, your point is taken:
vote nphase
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:09:53 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 13:09:53 GMT -5
I already know I'll be under scrutiny if you flip Town and so does everyone else in this game -- you pointing out my uncertainties oh-so-helpfully is just gratuitous.
Of course you're free to accuse me. It adds to my suspicions that you did not do so, until your inconsistency was pointed out.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:10:18 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 13:10:18 GMT -5
Ok guys.. I were scum this would be pretty stupid right now.. I could easily force a no-lynch and have you wait another day to lynch me. Please vote for something
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:12:10 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Nov 4, 2009 13:12:10 GMT -5
2. Based on Bill's claim, and assuming he is being truthful (and I temporarily am at this point), we may well have a no-card-flip or delayed-card-flip scenario here, which is assuredly an anti-Town mechanism. Just to add to this, I did ask CAIS whether the results of my kills would be revealed to everyone....he declined to answer the question. What I *really* don’t like is this: Bill's a smart player. Even if he is an optional (town) vig, I'd expect him to be doing a fair amount of killing early on, so the difference in the early game may well be down to semantics. I don't see any point in pressing him on this issue. Above is after I said that his reasons for voting for me is semantics. Are you actually saying that BillMc should target me? And is BillMc a scum killer that can only target someone with a vote? That prospect kinda scares me. It might be a stretch, but I *really* don’t like what you’ve getting at. I think you are definitely putting words in Nphase's mouth here. Again, think about how seriously overpowered my role would be for scum in a 20 people game. Weigh that against "it must be scum becuase the role is secret". This is poor reasoning - I've played in a couple of games with similar numbers with a scum politician. Indeed, in my first game as scum, we had a scum politician, and we had great fun with the role.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:23:55 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 4, 2009 13:23:55 GMT -5
Just for the record, while I am opposed to the Chucara lynch, I can assure you that I, at least, will not allow a no-lynch and will move my vote however required to avoid one.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:24:43 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 13:24:43 GMT -5
I'm seriously pondering switching my vote here, but I am uncertain which is best..
Agree or not, let's just assume for a second that I am town, which is best for town:
1. I go down willingly, become confirmed as town. Town loses power role. 2. I force tie, remain unconfirmed, but town retains power role.
Problem with two is that atleast BillMc and nphase (if town) would probably vote me off tomorrow even if I showed up with the Holy Grail.
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:26:16 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 13:26:16 GMT -5
Just missed storys comment:
I'm inclined to agree, but I really looked forward to playing. I won't switch unless someone votes pedescribe or someone else that might take my place. But if I were town, I wouldn't take my word for it.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:30:12 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 4, 2009 13:30:12 GMT -5
Just missed storys comment: I'm inclined to agree, but I really looked forward to playing. I won't switch unless someone votes pedescribe or someone else that might take my place. But if I were town, I wouldn't take my word for it. You know, I get where you're coming from, especially if you're Town. But if you are, at this point at least by your death we will know it (well, I hope we will; if this is a true no-card-flip game we may have more trouble), and can analyze toDay's events one the basis of that knowledge. If there is a no-lynch, then we're back where we started from at Dawn, no wiser than before except for whatever information our enemies choose to supply (ie, who they choose to kill).
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:31:34 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 13:31:34 GMT -5
storyteller: Explain no-card-flip?
|
|
Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
Posts: 740
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:37:41 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 13:37:41 GMT -5
He's referring to BillMc's claim he gets to know the role of who he killed, which I was just writing this post about: Then there's what I shall call "the Pedescribe problem." Specifically, that he is known to lie, even when Town, for no real reason. Therefore why should I trust him when he says he's an investigator? Even the Pirates are "an investigator, of sorts." They kill a player, and find out what their role and alignment are. Not that I like with the pedescribe half-claim, but do the scum get to know the role/alignment of theirs kills in this game if what BillMc claims is true, thus indicating no public reveal? If they do, then a scum BillMc his claimed power also as scum and has used that tidbit of non-public information to strengthen his claim.
|
|
Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
Posts: 740
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:40:10 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 13:40:10 GMT -5
NETA: Ouch, sorry for that hasty post with bad grammar:
Not that I like pedescribe's half-claim, but do the scum get to know the role/alignment of their kills in this game if what BillMc claims is true (indicating no public reveal of the role at least)? If they do, then a scum BillMc could also have claimed power (getting to know the role of the scum killed player) and has used that tidbit of non-public information to strengthen his claim.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:46:32 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 4, 2009 13:46:32 GMT -5
storyteller: Explain no-card-flip? A no-card-flip game would be a game where there is no public reveal of the alignment or role of a player after his/her death. Pleonast's Conspiracy games have had delayed card flips, but I don't recall ever playing one where the alignment was literally never revealed.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:46:52 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 13:46:52 GMT -5
Yep, that's definitely possible. I still consider it a qualified positive for Town if it's true, though. He'd be in a position where he'd have to tell the truth much if not all of the time, lest he be called out as a liar by an investigator he doesn't know about.
|
|
Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:47:32 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 4, 2009 13:47:32 GMT -5
NETA: Ouch, sorry for that hasty post with bad grammar: Not that I like pedescribe's half-claim, but do the scum get to know the role/alignment of their kills in this game if what BillMc claims is true (indicating no public reveal of the role at least)? If they do, then a scum BillMc could also have claimed power (getting to know the role of the scum killed player) and has used that tidbit of non-public information to strengthen his claim. That's a good point. My comment about the Mafia kill holds true in a regular game, where alignment and/or role are revealed on death. It doesn't hold true if there is no cardflip. I'm going to have to look back at Bill's claim for something.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:47:45 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 13:47:45 GMT -5
NETA: Was talking about Bill maybe being Scum, complete with claimed role-determination ability. Damn crossposts.
|
|
Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:49:33 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on Nov 4, 2009 13:49:33 GMT -5
storyteller: Explain no-card-flip? A no-card-flip game would be a game where there is no public reveal of the alignment or role of a player after his/her death. Pleonast's Conspiracy games have had delayed card flips, but I don't recall ever playing one where the alignment was literally never revealed. Mr. Blockey's Three Clan mafia? You dropped out for some rl reason, just after I'd determined you were on our side.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:54:38 GMT -5
Post by BillMc on Nov 4, 2009 13:54:38 GMT -5
Problem with two is that atleast BillMc and nphase (if town) would probably vote me off tomorrow even if I showed up with the Holy Grail. Do you want a violin? Tomorrow I'll vote based on whoever I believe is scummiest.
|
|
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 13:55:24 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 4, 2009 13:55:24 GMT -5
Ok guys.. I were scum this would be pretty stupid right now.. I could easily force a no-lynch and have you wait another day to lynch me. Please vote for something That's a new variation on "Scum wouldn't do this...and I am, therefore I'm not Scum" saying. It's "Scum would do that....and I'm not, therefore I'm not Scum"
|
|
Chucara
Borogrove
Idleboard's Elite Coder Club
2009 Winner of Best Person in the Universe
Posts: 287
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 14:00:00 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 14:00:00 GMT -5
Ok guys.. I were scum this would be pretty stupid right now.. I could easily force a no-lynch and have you wait another day to lynch me. Please vote for something That's a new variation on "Scum wouldn't do this...and I am, therefore I'm not Scum" saying. It's "Scum would do that....and I'm not, therefore I'm not Scum" Keep twisting my words. I'm just saying that if you really believe I am scum, you are foolish to leave me with the possibility. Hell, one of my scum comrades would probably get await with "being persuaded" to move his vote away, and we could vote pedescribe. Now warning town of a mistake is scummy too? That's just.. well.. It explain why I have five votes.
|
|
Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
Posts: 740
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 14:05:12 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 14:05:12 GMT -5
Also, if he is scum he would wait until the last minute to tie it to minimize the chance for an untie.
So the warning should be: a scum in the lead with only one vote difference with someone he didn't vote for can delay his own execution. Which would be a nice opportunity for a vigilante - but a vigilante in that situation is also a prime target for block or redirect so a lynch is still better.
|
|