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Post by Pleonast on Sept 1, 2010 14:09:09 GMT -5
Perhaps the village entered the Night with some uncertainties, but there was no doubt about it by Dawn.
FlyingCowOfDoom dies. nphase and Idle Thought are Cabal. Honest Moley is a Detective.
It is now Day Eight. It will end at 12 noon PT (3pm ET) on Thu Sep 2.
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Post by Nanook on Sept 1, 2010 14:38:29 GMT -5
Apparently the Cabal did in fact have a recruitment.
2 zombies, 1 Necro, 2 wolves, 5 people that are in theory Town. I only see one way for Town to win this. I don't like it, but what must be done must be done.
Vote: duvsie
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:06:05 GMT -5
(1) How did stanislaus zombie get destroyed? I missed that entirely.
(2) I don't see the benefit of killing a Wolf. In fact, I'm very much against it.
(3) We have here a game where the necromancer cannot die. We have lynched him twice! Fuck this.
Vote: Pleonast
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Post by Nanook on Sept 1, 2010 15:11:46 GMT -5
Hmm no I guess it isn't strictly necessary. If we kill a zombie, and the wolves kill a Town, we then lynch them back to back. Tomorrow is 4/2/1/1, lynch wolf, 4/1/1/1, NK Town, 3/1/1/1, lynch last Wolf, 3/1/1, and then we can take forever to lynch the necro.
Unless of course they kill the Vicar. Then the necro can make more zombies and Undead win. Well you say, have the Witches protect him! Then they kill a Witch, and we can't protect him tomorrow Night and he dies then. At which point it's an ugly ass stalemate until we run out of corpses.
I dunno, someone convince me I'm wrong. And not by throwing up your hands and bitching about Pleo.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 1, 2010 15:11:55 GMT -5
Stanislaus was destroyed so that Red would survive his lynch. But we have to be careful, even still, about killing Out of that pool -- The Undead cannot outnumber the not-undead at Nightfall, or Red wins.
Vote: Red Skeezix
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:14:02 GMT -5
By the way, I'm going out of town. I will not be available to play for the next three days.
Vote: Red Skeezix
Also, in my opinion games get a bit tiresome after Day Six even under the best circumstances. This forced no-lynch certainly isn't helping my interest or the playability of the game itself.
On the one hand, I guess I won't care too much if the ridiculously overpowered Undead win. Personally, I would have preferred Pleonast simply telling us this in advance, awarding the undead with the win and allowing us to move on with our lives with a minimum of wasted time. But I'm weird that way.
On the other hand, I'd rather the Wolves win than the Undead.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Sept 1, 2010 15:14:17 GMT -5
Well, crap.
--FCOD
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:17:43 GMT -5
Stanislaus was destroyed so that Red would survive his lynch. No. On D6 we lynched red skeezix and zombie Hoopy Frood was destroyed. On D7 we lynched red skeezix and zombie MHaye was destroyed. There have been no notifications (that I'm aware of) where stanislaus was destroyed. (Personally, I think that if the Wolves have been trying to kill Red Skeezix, then THAT should be taking out zombies as well. Actually, I think Red Skeezix should just DIE, but I'm kind of a stickler for sane rules.)
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:28:30 GMT -5
Another, slightly less unbalanced approach would be to require increasing numbers of zombies to stop a lynch. In other words, needing one the first time, two the second, and three the third. While still remarkably frustrating and not particularly elegant gameplay, we would theoretically be able to lynch Red Skeezix Today (if this were to be true and Red needed 3 zombies to stop another lynch).
Otherwise, Town can't win. Town can't kill undead. Wolves can't (or won't) kill undead. What's the point?
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:31:57 GMT -5
I have sent Pleonast a PM about stanislaus asking how zombie stanislaus was destroyed and WHEN stanislaus was destroyed. I realize now that I might not be around to post the response. I suggest some one else also ask Pleonast about stanislaus. Note: the when is important. Pleonast might not answer HOW, but should answer WHEN.
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Post by Nanook on Sept 1, 2010 15:33:54 GMT -5
You're wrong Sach.
Lynch Wolf today. 5/1/1/2. NK of a Town member, Pinkies blocks Red, start tomorrow at 4/1/1/2. Lynch the last Wolf. 4/1/2. Necro has no NK ability, Pinkies can lock his zombie making indefinately. Then it's just 3 lynches, 2 for zombies and 1 for Red himself, and Town wins.
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:37:24 GMT -5
That looks correct.
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 15:40:38 GMT -5
The only weakness to Nanook's plan is the lack of MentalGuy.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 1, 2010 15:57:59 GMT -5
The wolves have nothing against killing the undead, we just can't. Red says he can't be killed at Night, which so far seems to be true, and we couldn't have killed the vamps, and Zombies, IIRC from the rules, don't really "count" except as bodies -- can't NK 'em, can't vote to lynch 'em.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Sept 1, 2010 15:58:50 GMT -5
On D7 we lynched red skeezix and zombie MHaye was destroyed. There have been no notifications (that I'm aware of) where stanislaus was destroyed. you are, of course, correct and I had memory fail.
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Post by Pleonast on Sept 1, 2010 16:31:02 GMT -5
Through moderator brain slippage, the fact that Zombie stanislaus is destroyed has become public knowledge. No comment on how, why etc, but it is true.
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Post by Nanook on Sept 1, 2010 16:33:29 GMT -5
Mentalguy isn't an issue. We don't need his vote for anything, all we need is his living body to count for the numbers.
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 16:45:03 GMT -5
Fine.
Unvote: red skeezix Vote: duvsie
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 16:50:00 GMT -5
Hey Wolves, Did you try and kill Red Skeezix or FlyingCowOfDoom?
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Post by Red Skeezix on Sept 1, 2010 17:14:08 GMT -5
(1) How did stanislaus zombie get destroyed? I missed that entirely. (2) I don't see the benefit of killing a Wolf. In fact, I'm very much against it. (3) We have here a game where the necromancer cannot die. We have lynched him twice! Fuck this. Vote: Pleonast [/color][/quote] The smallest violin ever is playing just for you, sach. I mean, how could I possibly compete against A Recruiting, Self Confirming, Vicar that my team cannot kill, and being alive benefits every other faction more than being dead? What's the antidote for that? @wolves: Offer is still open to help you win. Do you see what I'm saying so far? vote Nanook vote Sachertorte vote Captain Pinkies vote Mental Guy vote Septimus
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Post by Red Skeezix on Sept 1, 2010 17:14:52 GMT -5
vote Nanook vote Sachertorte vote Captain Pinkies vote Mental Guy vote Septimus
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 1, 2010 17:56:57 GMT -5
The smallest violin ever is playing just for you, sach. I mean, how could I possibly compete against A Recruiting, Self Confirming, Vicar that my team cannot kill, and being alive benefits every other faction more than being dead? What's the antidote for that? Town must kill the Necromancer to win. Period. There is no alternative. The Necromancer must be dead to fulfill the Town win condition. Town after two lynch attempts has not been able to do so. Town is incapable of reaching this condition that is absolutely required for the win condition. That is F-ed up. To a large extent I agree with the assessment that an unnightkillable Vicar sucks for Undead. But a dead Vicar is not an absolute necessity for an Undead Win. I could argue this point further, but overall I think we are more on the same page than not... The existence of fucked up frustrating elements does not preclude the existence of other fucked up frustrating elements. In fact, your points are further evidence that gameplay was destined to screech to a halt by design. The fact that one bizarre design decision 'balances' the other does not remove the glacially slow and bothersome game play. It is only by chance that Idle Thoughts ended up dead. He could have just as easily coasted to the end of the game and won with Cabal without anyone else being the wiser, or even being capable of knowing such a result was possible. Sure there could be guesses that Cabal could recruit, but there was no evidence of this fact being true or even possible. Furthermore, I don't see how rational game play could even warrant lynching Idle Thoughts in any way. It simply isn't in the cards. At least in C1 there existed a mechanism to know what types of recruitment were possible, and not some void from which everyone gets to be surprised with an unknowable gotcha. So really, the only Faction I see that didn't have a F-U power was Wolves. Maybe they did and it just didn't pan out. Or maybe they do and we'll see it spring up randomly. Overall, my point is the game has boiled down to being far more random and devoid of gameplay, and now it is destined to stretch out ever longer... for what?
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Post by Nanook on Sept 1, 2010 23:00:33 GMT -5
Pinkies, Septimus, Mental, you guys want to get in here and vote?
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Post by Duvsie on Sept 2, 2010 3:27:55 GMT -5
Apparently the Cabal did in fact have a recruitment. 2 zombies, 1 Necro, 2 wolves, 5 people that are in theory Town. I only see one way for Town to win this. I don't like it, but what must be done must be done. Vote: duvsie bolded and bleached. How do you know this? How do you know for a fact they had only one? I killed FcoD. I took a gamble to see whether pinkies was telling the truth, as I didn’t feel it mattered at that point whether he was or not, it’s a guaranteed town win one way or another really. So, Idle flipped Cabal, well well, who else have they secretly recruited. At this point I don’t trust any of the so called town to not be what they say. All this time and Idle was playing so pro town, as are the rest of you, a well thought out ploy to win, especially as they could and can all still talk Day or Night. Who did the witches protect last night then? Obv not FCoD meaning they distrusted Pinkies word on everything. Interesting that you didn't protect FCoD, as he wouldn't have furthered the cabal wincon at all, is that why? Maybe one of you has been recruited by the cabal and has been insistent in self protecting since Day 1 or whenever the recruitment happened. My guess would be Nanook, especially with his factual statement from above. With FCOD dying, it proves Pinkies is the Vicar and Town. A Cabal Vicar would not have wanted to give the Town a Vig. At this moment in time, I really don't trust any of so called ‘town’, except Pinkies, to be actually Town and not Cabal. Vote: Nanook Vote: Septimus Vote: Mental Guy Vote: Sachertorte
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Post by septimus on Sept 2, 2010 9:30:36 GMT -5
My Internet was unable to access this board until a moment ago, so let me place a vote quick before I lose Internet again. Vote: Red SkeezixI confess to utter confusion. Every time red is Lynched, a Zombie is destroyed? Every time he is NK'ed a Cabalist dies instead? I suppose we should just keep trying to kill him if a bad guy dies each time. What's up with the Wolfesses? Are you helping Town without any quid pro quo? Or up to some trickery?
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Post by Nanook on Sept 2, 2010 11:10:48 GMT -5
Why would we protect FCOD? What possible use would that have? He was irrelevent for anything. Idle could not have started out Cabal and had to be recruited, because on Day 1 when he was lynched Pleo stated he was the Scotsman, which is a Town role. If you think Witches could be recruited, then you think the game is broken. Witches are in the game as the counter to the Cabal. We have to be dead for their win condition to be met remember.
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Post by sachertorte on Sept 2, 2010 11:40:04 GMT -5
Hey boltbus has wifi.
Looks like we are headed to a no lynch due to the short day. Oh well. We wouldn't be lynching a wolf without pleonasts mistake anyway. Though I question why that would ne secret
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Post by septimus on Sept 2, 2010 13:31:05 GMT -5
Vote: Red SkeezixI confess to utter confusion.... Checking the Votes/Roster thread, I see Pleonast recorded this as a vote for Duvsie! I'll assume he knows what's in Town's interests and subconsciously corrected my blunder for me. ;D Vote: Duvsie
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Post by MentalGuy on Sept 2, 2010 13:34:17 GMT -5
Vote: Duvsie Vote: Redskeezix
I apologize for my absence and frankly I don't know how much I will be around for the next few days. If I miss a Day entirely, I am sorry. I promise not to sign up for another mafia game during my son's football season (though that is not the only problem). I will probably have some time to read tonight, but unfortunately that will be Night and I won't be able to post my thoughts. Hopefully, I can be more involved toMorrow, but I don't really know.
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Post by septimus on Sept 2, 2010 13:54:10 GMT -5
If we're not careful, the "bad guys" can cause a tie vote and thus No Lynch. Therefore:
Unvote: red skeezix [/color]
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