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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 6, 2010 17:22:35 GMT -5
I'd actually be willing to try PaulWhoIsMeeko's idea. I don't happen to share BillMcBat's visceral assertion that there is no way that a power could function as described. SQUEEK! (So I'm sure I understand you correctly, you would be willing to try PaulwhoisaMeeko's idea despite Raj's arguments against despite BillMcBatman's argument that Zedd's power can't operate as described? I know he's made that argument against our homicidal maniac's power, but did he argue it against Zedd too?)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 6, 2010 17:41:16 GMT -5
I mis-attributed the visceral reaction to The Bat when I should have said Raj. But yes, even though other players have advocated against it, I'd be willing to give it a shot. If Zedd has described his power in a way that implies that the idea would not work, that changes things. Otherwise, I just haven't heard enough to convince me to share the perspective that it is a horrible idea. Even if Raj and Batman are indeed town, they can still be wrong about things and so far I just don't share their paranoia and caution with respect to how they are interpreting the proposal or the players that the proposal involve.
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Post by special on Oct 6, 2010 17:43:45 GMT -5
I mis-attributed the visceral reaction to The Bat when I should have said Raj. But yes, even though other players have advocated against it, I'd be willing to give it a shot. If Zedd has described his power in a way that implies that the idea would not work, that changes things. Otherwise, I just haven't heard enough to convince me to share the perspective that it is a horrible idea. Even if Raj and Batman are indeed town, they can still be wrong about things and so far I just don't share their paranoia and caution with respect to how they are interpreting the proposal or the players that the proposal involve. So, you are confident that Meeko/Paul can give us a result that will confirm Zedd's power (and not his alignment) without requiring us to believe Meeko/Paul himself? I don't know what to say about that. I don't see it as possible. How can it not matter if Meeko/Paul is telling the truth or not when he confirms or rejects Zedd's results? And, all of this aside from the fact that it does nothing to confirm Zedd's alignment.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 6, 2010 17:49:15 GMT -5
Confident? No, just willing to try things that apparently you're not willing to try. It sounds like you'd require PaulWhoIsMeeko to dump out the rest of his magic role bag before you'd even consider considering it further. I'd be willing to roll the dice.
Maybe there are non-traditional aspects to PaulWhoIsMeeko's role? Maybe there is a mechanism other than receiving results from the Mod and relaying those results. I don't know, but I would not be surprised.
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Post by special on Oct 6, 2010 18:04:50 GMT -5
Confident? No, just willing to try things that apparently you're not willing to try. It sounds like you'd require PaulWhoIsMeeko to dump out the rest of his magic role bag before you'd even consider considering it further. I'd be willing to roll the dice. Maybe there are non-traditional aspects to PaulWhoIsMeeko's role? Maybe there is a mechanism other than receiving results from the Mod and relaying those results. I don't know, but I would not be surprised. ONo, I'm not requiring him to dump out his magic bag. I'm just suprised that he's expecting me to accept his magic bag. If Meeko/paul isn't someone we can trust, mayb there's a reason why he wants Zedd's investigation and the mason/watchers controlled. You seem to be willing to allow Meeko/paul to control them based on his magic bag. I'm not convinced.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 6, 2010 18:17:13 GMT -5
Squeek! (A random thought: unless Paul/meeko is going to claim he's the one going around jailing people as a passive action and is trying to shut Zedd the hell up.)
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Oct 6, 2010 18:29:01 GMT -5
Squeek! (A random thought: unless Paul/meeko is going to claim he's the one going around jailing people as a passive action and is trying to shut Zedd the hell up.) Interesting you brought this up. Thought has crossed my mind. Not that the Raccoon is a jailer but that the jail might be a passive action. Wondering what sort of action might trigger it. We know by Batman's account that he tried to investigate Total but she was jailed. Wouldn't make sense for Cop to get someone jailed, defeats purpose of investigation. Maybe someone else targeted Total. Maybe someone targeted Elinor on Night 1 and she was jailed as a result.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Oct 6, 2010 18:30:16 GMT -5
Confident? No, just willing to try things that apparently you're not willing to try. It sounds like you'd require PaulWhoIsMeeko to dump out the rest of his magic role bag before you'd even consider considering it further. I'd be willing to roll the dice. Maybe there are non-traditional aspects to PaulWhoIsMeeko's role? Maybe there is a mechanism other than receiving results from the Mod and relaying those results. I don't know, but I would not be surprised. Chitter... Little Indian Girl: Which would make the whole thing pointless because then Zedd would know my role and wouldn't be able to prove that his power functions as stated.
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Oct 6, 2010 18:30:34 GMT -5
NETA: Elinor jailed Night 2, not 1.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Oct 6, 2010 18:32:24 GMT -5
chitter... Little Indian Girl: And this is all just an elaborate ruse right? In which one of the masons, myself, and zedd are all in cahoots to get town to do something terrible? In order to..... ? Accomplish what exactly? Not to mention that for that to be the case, all of the masons would have to be in on it... or for there to be at least one mason with a different alignment than the others. But you're right... it's more likely that than you just being overly paranoid. No, just you has to be in on it. Because Zedd and the Masons can do as you say, be Town, and what you report will decide how we react. And I have no reason to trust you. Or Zedd could be Scum and you and the Masons could be Town, and I won't be able to tell Or the Masons could be Scum or 3rd party and you and Zedd could be Town and I wouldn't be able to tell. Or all of you could be Town and a 3rd party of Scum manipulation would make all of this moot. Or just about any combination. Chitter Little Indian Girl: Like I said, this is a mason suggested plan. I just volunteered to be the guinea pig because I know that my power can be proven without anyone having to take my word for it.
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Post by special on Oct 6, 2010 18:38:00 GMT -5
No, just you has to be in on it. Because Zedd and the Masons can do as you say, be Town, and what you report will decide how we react. And I have no reason to trust you. Or Zedd could be Scum and you and the Masons could be Town, and I won't be able to tell Or the Masons could be Scum or 3rd party and you and Zedd could be Town and I wouldn't be able to tell. Or all of you could be Town and a 3rd party of Scum manipulation would make all of this moot. Or just about any combination. Chitter Little Indian Girl: Like I said, this is a mason suggested plan. I just volunteered to be the guinea pig because I know that my power can be proven without anyone having to take my word for it. And this may very well be true, but we have to take your word for it. Aside from all manipulations that might happen in the interim. I'm not sure I want the Scum knowing who is being targeted with eerything.
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Post by Renata on Oct 6, 2010 18:38:35 GMT -5
And, all of this aside from the fact that it does nothing to confirm Zedd's alignment. This is my point exactly. I'm going to bed. Sleep tight, and don't let the spiders bite.
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Oct 6, 2010 18:43:54 GMT -5
chitter! Little Indian Girl: Yes! DING DING DING!!! Tell the man what he's won! I find it difficult to believe that you can make me believe something without having to believe you. Chitter? Little Indian Girl: Why? There are plenty of roles that can be proven without us having to take the player's word for it. Here's an example (a bad one... but an example none the less: Day killer. Some one can claim Day killer... and you don't have to believe them. They can prove it by activating the day kill in thread. Often they have to post in thread something along the lines of "BANG! Kill Player X!" And shortly there after the mod announces that Player X died. The role proves itself. Example 2: Double Voter... you don't have to take a player's word for it... he can just cast two votes and upon a vote count you would see that he indeed is a double voter. Example 3: Politician... You don't have to take his word for it. He can just buy your vote and change it to whatever he wants. Example 4: Beloved Princess.... Upon their death the next day phase is skipped... again... no trust necessary. Example 5: Governer.... He can stop a lynch... you don't have to believe him... the prove comes as visible game mechanics. All of the above are examples of roles that can prove themselves. you don't have to believe me... I will show you...
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Post by special on Oct 6, 2010 18:48:38 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that you can make me believe something without having to believe you. Chitter? Little Indian Girl: Why? There are plenty of roles that can be proven without us having to take the player's word for it. Here's an example (a bad one... but an example none the less: Day killer. Some one can claim Day killer... and you don't have to believe them. They can prove it by activating the day kill in thread. Often they have to post in thread something along the lines of "BANG! Kill Player X!" And shortly there after the mod announces that Player X died. The role proves itself. Example 2: Double Voter... you don't have to take a player's word for it... he can just cast two votes and upon a vote count you would see that he indeed is a double voter. Example 3: Politician... You don't have to take his word for it. He can just buy your vote and change it to whatever he wants. Example 4: Beloved Princess.... Upon their death the next day phase is skipped... again... no trust necessary. Example 5: Governer.... He can stop a lynch... you don't have to believe him... the prove comes as visible game mechanics. All of the above are examples of roles that can prove themselves. you don't have to believe me... I will show you... Aside from example 4 being silly since the player is dead and revealed, In none of these examples do we learn a person's alignment. And, we still have to trust the person. In example 1. Scum may have a DayKiller, and someone else can post in the thread while the other Scum secretly PMs the moderator Example 2, a secret vote may be in place as well as a vote charger Exmple 3, I can easily fake having my vote. Example 5 can prove the power exists sure.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Oct 6, 2010 18:50:16 GMT -5
Now puft says he was redirected to me - so it's reasonable to assume that other killers were also redirected to me. So the killers were in the batcave. Galadriel and Gir, like Puft, say they weren't in the batcave, but the Mason's say they were. Galadriel is jailed -- now why jail her, she ddnt claim anything - this smells more like a scum ploy; which leaves Gir as the possible culprit. So this boils down to do I believe Story, in which case Gir is most likely the killer. Or are they both full of it? Gir and Galadriel were seen in the batcave - but deny being there. I trust the Masons - so Gir and Galadriel are liars.Why would they deny being there? docs or killers? with the lack of other deaths, it seems plausible, that all kills were directed to me.So I think Gir and Galadriel are quite possibly both killers. And one of the main reasons why I chose to investigate Galadriel. I still have my suspicions of Story, but since I cant vote Galadriel [eyes glow red]Inconsistent human, are you arguing that I'm lying about not having targeted the Bat, or that I was redirected because I'm a killer? It can't be both. *dramatic sigh* However, I will refute both accusations: 1) I am not lying. I did not target the Bat--or rather, I did not intend to target the Bat. I assume someone appropriated my guidance chip (i.e. redirected me). 2) I am not killing anyone. I will confirm that I do not get any sort of PM response from the mods for my Night Action. The mods are bastards. They even mocked me in my role PM.[/eyes glow red] I had something else I wanted to say, but I forgetted it. *wanders off in search of caffeine to boost brain activity*
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 6, 2010 18:51:54 GMT -5
I'm not sure I want the Scum knowing who is being targeted with eerything. SQUEEK! I wholeheartedly agree with this statement. Whether that last word is supposed to be everything or anything.)
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Oct 6, 2010 18:55:18 GMT -5
NETA: Bastards in the sense of being bastards, not bastards in the sense of bastard moddery.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 6, 2010 18:55:41 GMT -5
Interesting you brought this up. Thought has crossed my mind. Not that the Raccoon is a jailer but that the jail might be a passive action. Wondering what sort of action might trigger it. We know by Batman's account that he tried to investigate Total but she was jailed. Wouldn't make sense for Cop to get someone jailed, defeats purpose of investigation. Maybe someone else targeted Total. Maybe someone targeted Elinor on Night 1 and she was jailed as a result. SQUEEK! (I agree that it makes more sense that it would be a passive power; either that, or if it is an active power it can't be used on the same person two Days/Nights in a row. Both Elinor and Total appear to have Night actions they use on other people, so either could have tripped a passive defense.)
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Oct 6, 2010 18:58:21 GMT -5
Chitter...
Little Indian girl: Why are the masons so quiet?
I never claimed it would gain us the alignment of anyone... I thought I had even posted that to begin with... Although, there are certain roles that just don't make sense to have on townside... like poisoner... or corrupter... or mad bomber... etc.... so while his role investigations don't give us an exact alignment, they could tell us who is almost certainly anti-town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 6, 2010 19:06:46 GMT -5
I also agree that alignment is not the only information worth confirming. Ideal, yes, but not exclusive.
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Post by septimus on Oct 7, 2010 2:31:49 GMT -5
Chitter... Little Indian girl: Why are the masons so quiet? I never claimed it would gain us the alignment of anyone... I can't speak for the other Masons, but I see little to gain and much to lose from your plan. To begin with, it seems not unlikely you and Zedd are both scum and have concocted a plan to make us think both of you are Town! You're asking Zedd to waste his turn deriving a power you're willing to reveal anyway. You seem to assume Masons can pick their target and want us to waste that pick on a target others will therefore deliberately avoid, just to confirm Zedd's honesty and non-redirection ... which might all be deliberate scum honesty and non-redirection. Frankly, even if Zedd is Town, I'm not sure his power is so helpful. He attempted to investigate a Mason! (Though was redirected to Jack S., a redirection for which no logical explanation has been offered.) And Zedd is vote front-runner, so the whole proposal might just be scum's attempt to save one of their own. I'm not voting for Zedd, mainly because a few others also seem suspicious including, because of this inconsistent proposal, you PaulwhoisMeeko.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 7, 2010 2:53:36 GMT -5
Speaking only for myself, there are a variety of topics I'm interested in hearing from the Mason's about. Like oh...I dunno...yesterDay's clusterfuck maybe?
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Post by septimus on Oct 7, 2010 3:28:37 GMT -5
Speaking only for myself, there are a variety of topics I'm interested in hearing from the Mason's about. Like oh...I dunno...yesterDay's clusterfuck maybe? By the "clusterfuck" are you referring to the never-ending posts by Stay Puft that redirection was a possibility? This confused some of us Masons too, due to this disclaimer early on: In reply #110 in Day 3, The Corinthian wrote: After Corinthian explicitly acknowledging the possibility of redirection, another 6 or 7 messages on the topic by Stay Puft might have been amusing, but wasn't it more like 50 messages all saying the same thing ? Frankly, I was almost glad to get rid of this filibusterer even if he was Town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 7, 2010 3:44:02 GMT -5
Perhaps it just isn't possible for the three of you to see your play for anyone else's perspective.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Oct 7, 2010 6:22:50 GMT -5
Perhaps it just isn't possible for the three of you to see your play for anyone else's perspective. And perhaps it just isn't possible for you to see our play from any perspective other than your own. I've suggested a couple of things I wanted to hear about, but the only one that has actually generated any discussion is the zedd topic. I've been avoiding making any cases today since it's too easy for a mason to start a bandwagon. I'll be back after work to make my cases and vote.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 7, 2010 7:03:36 GMT -5
Bad timing probably, but I'll be offline most of the day today.
I'm a teacher and we have a field trip for most of the day, then cross country practice, and then I'm going out for dinner.
So, I won't be able to get here too often.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 7, 2010 7:03:40 GMT -5
Frankly, I was almost glad to get rid of this filibusterer even if he was Town. Wow. Just wow. Regardless of how you feel about him, he was town and his death brings the scum closer to winning. I mean, jesus, what a thing to say. Take a moment and think about this. Even with your super duper masonic powers you were wrong about stay puft. Does this help you understand why some of us are less than entranced with your fixation on zedd now? Frankly, I'm not interested in lynching zedd right now because I'm really not that sure he's scum.
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 7:17:27 GMT -5
Then find someone to vote for and place a vote. It's easy!
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 7, 2010 7:32:53 GMT -5
Yeah, I know. Unfortunately, today is busier than I anticipated. I may be able to do something in an hour or so, otherwise it will have to wait for this afternoon.
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Oct 7, 2010 7:54:13 GMT -5
Having difficulty wading through the pool of players. Some appear Scum but none I can muster an argument worth lynching. Not convinced Zedd is Scum, want to give him one more Day to work his claimed power.
Ehhh.
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