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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 8:16:39 GMT -5
(If anything, it was the intersection of your multiple PFK idea plus Buddy Christ's thoughts about a second Scum team that provoked my question. Because I sure as hell have no idea if there are other PFK in the game besides The Narrator.) Having a second scum team is one line of thought, but saying that PFK's shared a wincon but didn't know it, is something entirely different. That doesn't follow from that line of thought. Given we know Buddy was scum, why would scum put forward a hypothesis about a second scum team unless there were actions that scum took on N2 that did not work out as planned - e.g. was the scum kill also redirected to me? I can't see a pro-town, or indeed a pro-scum reason for you to take Buddy's comment and jump to the hypothesis that there are PFK's sharing a unknown wincon. Which would suggest that you are possibly PFK and know something about another PFK's wincon.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 8:18:17 GMT -5
matter of fact if batty/bill doesn't post his results i will take that very poorly. once a town power role is outed it is not the time to try and be coy. It is exactly this type of post that is making us suspicious of the masonary. The way you dribbled information yesterDay made it look very dubious. I certainly don't blame Zed for investigating the masons - I seriously thought about it myself, tho decided that if you are all full of it, then it will come out in the wash. Your choice of watching Puft die was interesting - as logically the only thing it would confirm (if puft was truthful) was to confirm that Raj/Ed could kill. You havent confirmed whether Raj/Ed is town - tho I'm willing to accept that. Given that Raj's kill attempt was not redirected, it would appear that scum do not have a redirector (or maybe Galadriel is the scum redirector). If Galadriel is not a scum redirector, then the redirect of Puft on N2, was the result of a pfk/3rd party action.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 8:19:55 GMT -5
SQUEEK! (So I'm sure I understand you correctly, you would be willing to try PaulwhoisaMeeko's idea despite Raj's arguments against despite BillMcBatman's argument that Zedd's power can't operate as described? I know he's made that argument against our homicidal maniac's power, but did he argue it against Zedd too?) No - I actually believe Zedd. PaulwhoisMeeko's idea is confusing the hell out of me - he is playing the Meeko part too well!
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 8:23:20 GMT -5
(I looked at Columbo's suspicions from yesterday and found nothing to suggest he was killed for anything other than his role. He had roleblocked Death of Rats the previous night, but was clear that there was no direct suspicion behind that. He did express some suspicion of Zedd early on Yesterday, but that hardly singles him out.)
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 8:24:29 GMT -5
NETA: He was also very supportive of the masonry (or at least, very frustrated with some of its detractors), for whatever that's worth.
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 8:28:40 GMT -5
Given that Raj's kill attempt was not redirected, it would appear that scum do not have a redirector (or maybe Galadriel is the scum redirector). If Galadriel is not a scum redirector, then the redirect of Puft on N2, was the result of a pfk/3rd party action. Zedd said he was redirected to Skellington, Batboy.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 8:29:10 GMT -5
[eyes glow red]Inconsistent human, are you arguing that I'm lying about not having targeted the Bat, or that I was redirected because I'm a killer? It can't be both. *dramatic sigh* However, I will refute both accusations: 1) I am not lying. I did not target the Bat--or rather, I did not intend to target the Bat. I assume someone appropriated my guidance chip (i.e. redirected me). 2) I am not killing anyone. I will confirm that I do not get any sort of PM response from the mods for my Night Action. The mods are bastards. They even mocked me in my role PM.[/eyes glow red] I had something else I wanted to say, but I forgetted it. *wanders off in search of caffeine to boost brain activity* So you admit that were now redirected. So simple question, what/who were you doing to get redirected to me?
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 8:32:27 GMT -5
Given that Raj's kill attempt was not redirected, it would appear that scum do not have a redirector (or maybe Galadriel is the scum redirector). If Galadriel is not a scum redirector, then the redirect of Puft on N2, was the result of a pfk/3rd party action. Zedd said he was redirected to Skellington, Batboy. Yes, mulebreath. So if you believe Zedd was redirected to Skellington, then that lends to the argument that Zedd is town. But why would scum redirect an investigation rather than redirect a kill? So 3rd party redirect seems more likely.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 7, 2010 8:34:00 GMT -5
Frankly, I was almost glad to get rid of this filibusterer even if he was Town. Wow. Just wow. Regardless of how you feel about him, he was town and his death brings the scum closer to winning. I mean, jesus, what a thing to say. Take a moment and think about this. Even with your super duper masonic powers you were wrong about stay puft. Does this help you understand why some of us are less than entranced with your fixation on zedd now? Frankly, I'm not interested in lynching zedd right now because I'm really not that sure he's scum. of for fuck's sake. i was one of the folks inclined to leave puffy alive in order to see what was in scum's arsenal. once he indicated that he was not at the bat cave party i was pretty clear that he needed to go bye bye very quickly. he was either lying or he was being redirected. can you not see that? and even believing him as town i would have lynched his butt if we didn't have a confirmed scum in hand (one of the few instances where i, as town, would lynch a fellow townie. a redirectable compulsive vig - shit that is an extra scum kill). and i am positive that zed is scum, either. but either he is lying his ass off or there is a role that i have never seen before. one that can not be watched but can be re directed. i mean do you see that as plausible? plus investigating a mason. c'mon he already said he wasn't stupid. but sorry that's just stupid.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 7, 2010 8:43:33 GMT -5
matter of fact if batty/bill doesn't post his results i will take that very poorly. once a town power role is outed it is not the time to try and be coy. It is exactly this type of post that is making us suspicious of the masonary. The way you dribbled information yesterDay made it look very dubious. I certainly don't blame Zed for investigating the masons - I seriously thought about it myself, tho decided that if you are all full of it, then it will come out in the wash. Your choice of watching Puft die was interesting - as logically the only thing it would confirm (if puft was truthful) was to confirm that Raj/Ed could kill. You havent confirmed whether Raj/Ed is town - tho I'm willing to accept that. Given that Raj's kill attempt was not redirected, it would appear that scum do not have a redirector (or maybe Galadriel is the scum redirector). If Galadriel is not a scum redirector, then the redirect of Puft on N2, was the result of a pfk/3rd party action. oh heebus jeebus bill/batty. first, all we know is that raj and columbo chose to visit puffy as well as the whole shin dig previously. obviously we don't know alignment or we would have shared that as well. and sure we played it poorly yesterDay. believe me we have been kicking ourselves on our board over the way it played out. and i know excuses are like belly buttons but .... strangelove is apparantly on a total different cycle from us in the u.s. skeez actually has a job and a life. so if you want to castigate anyone for the way the information was released blame it on monkey boy.
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 7, 2010 8:53:11 GMT -5
ok, a serious no b.s. question.
if a killer fires at at someone and it goes elsewhere we know that it was redirected, right?
if a killer fires at the same someone and then is redirected to that same target what would be the effect?
would the killer get notification that they had been "redirected" to their original target? or would the target just end up dead?
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 9:18:31 GMT -5
and i am positive that zed is scum, either. but either he is lying his ass off or there is a role that i have never seen before. one that can not be watched but can be re directed. i mean do you see that as plausible? plus investigating a mason. c'mon he already said he wasn't stupid. but sorry that's just stupid. I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. For Zed to counterclaim me would have been a monumentally bad move by a scum. For a scum Zed to gain any town cred he would have had to have bussed a scumbuddy. He would have been better off accusing a townie of being scum, or sayng he was blocked, rather than stating he was redirected to skellington. I grant you, Zed's choices for investigation have been poor - cop and mason, but that in itself is not scummy.
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 9:24:42 GMT -5
Zedd said he was redirected to Skellington, Batboy. Yes, mulebreath. So if you believe Zedd was redirected to Skellington, then that lends to the argument that Zedd is town. I don't actually -- if Zedd is scum I expect that there was no redirection from scum at all. They did something else instead and used the previously-established potentiality of a redirector to support Zedd's story. If those nasty nasty scummy-scum are making him investigate Skellington, then he can't be a nasty-nasty scum, right? Right! Heehee. But you do believe Zedd is telling the truth. I thought maybe you'd forgotten a detail. Can't hardly blame him, those guano fumes would get to anyone. [/quote] Why wouldn't a third party redirect Ramesh just as easily as the mafia would? That possibility doesn't answer your question, no it doesn't.
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 9:28:03 GMT -5
ok, a serious no b.s. question. if a killer fires at at someone and it goes elsewhere we know that it was redirected, right? if a killer fires at the same someone and then is redirected to that same target what would be the effect? would the killer get notification that they had been "redirected" to their original target? or would the target just end up dead? (I think Ramesh said the killers get no notification at all. Either him or Stay-Puft.)
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 9:30:04 GMT -5
ok, a serious no b.s. question. if a killer fires at at someone and it goes elsewhere we know that it was redirected, right? if a killer fires at the same someone and then is redirected to that same target what would be the effect? would the killer get notification that they had been "redirected" to their original target? or would the target just end up dead? Given that I got no PM on N1/N3 - it would be reasonable to assume that the mods are only responding to action PM's when they are successful. They are not telling folk if they were blocked/redirected. If multiple killers were redirected to the same target - and the target was protected, then both would fail. And if the supposition above is correct, then neither killer would be told. From N2 - we know that puft's kill was redirected to me - we know that my investigation of buddy was not redirected So investigations were not redirected, but a kill was. Gir and Galadriel performed a night action that was redirected to me. It wasn't an investigation, unlikely it was a protection. Possibly they tried to kill someone else and were redirected. From N3 - puft was blocked by colombo - so puft's kill didnt go through - raj killed puft - so no kill direct on N2 - zed's investigation was redirected. - my investigation failed (galadriel was jailed)
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Post by BillMc on Oct 7, 2010 9:33:23 GMT -5
Why wouldn't a third party redirect Ramesh just as easily as the mafia would? That possibility doesn't answer your question, no it doesn't. Fair point, I stepped in mule dung and the stench temporarily distracted me. If the redirect were a scum power, you would expect it to be something they could use every night - so maybe it was a one off pfk power?
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 7, 2010 9:33:30 GMT -5
and i am positive that zed is scum, either. but either he is lying his ass off or there is a role that i have never seen before. one that can not be watched but can be re directed. i mean do you see that as plausible? plus investigating a mason. c'mon he already said he wasn't stupid. but sorry that's just stupid. I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. For Zed to counterclaim me would have been a monumentally bad move by a scum. For a scum Zed to gain any town cred he would have had to have bussed a scumbuddy. He would have been better off accusing a townie of being scum, or sayng he was blocked, rather than stating he was redirected to skellington. I grant you, Zed's choices for investigation have been poor - cop and mason, but that in itself is not scummy. but bill/batty he didn't "counter claim" you he merely claimed a different flavor of investigator. and to some extent he did bus a scum when he "confirmed" you and your results on buddy. and in my original post it was supposed to read "not totally convinced he is scum, either".
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Post by peekercpa on Oct 7, 2010 9:37:57 GMT -5
neta: fucking hell. "... i am not positive that zed is scum, either. but ....
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 10:22:17 GMT -5
If the redirect were a scum power, you would expect it to be something they could use every night - so maybe it was a one off pfk power? SQUEEK (I don't follow your reasoning here. Scum should be able to use the power every night, so a one-off power has to be PFK? Really? I think maybe you've got bats in your belfry -- either that, or there's something in your role PM that has you obsessed with PFKs, sheesh.) I can't see a pro-town, or indeed a pro-scum reason for you to take Buddy's comment and jump to the hypothesis that there are PFK's sharing a unknown wincon. Which would suggest that you are possibly PFK and know something about another PFK's wincon. SQUEEK (You know, this is the last time I'm going to say this: It's not that far of a jump, given my previous experiences in a blockey game. Also, I hereby definitively state that the only wincon I know is the one I share: Town.)
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 10:55:51 GMT -5
Why wouldn't a third party redirect Ramesh just as easily as the mafia would? That possibility doesn't answer your question, no it doesn't. Fair point, I stepped in mule dung and the stench temporarily distracted me. If the redirect were a scum power, you would expect it to be something they could use every night - so maybe it was a one off pfk power? But they did use it every night if you believe Zedd. *wanders off muttering about bats and rats and spiders and mules and headaches*
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 10:57:33 GMT -5
SQUEEK (You know, this is the last time I'm going to say this: It's not that far of a jump, given my previous experiences in a blockey game. Also, I hereby definitively state that the only wincon I know is the one I share: Town.) Which previous experience, oh Rat?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 11:25:44 GMT -5
SQUEEK (Mad scientist Mini. Also, I'd raise my eyebrow at you if I had eyebrows.)
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 11:33:01 GMT -5
Err, why?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 11:45:21 GMT -5
SQUEEK (Because I said I was done discussing it. Oh, wait. Can't wink, don't have skin. As I said yesterDay, in Mad Science Mini I was a PFK who was part of a team of two; to win, we had to find a third PFK (or, more accurately, create that third PFK through experimentation). )
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 11:45:56 GMT -5
SQUEEK. (Also, I hereby rescind the Bats in the Belfry comment.)
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 7, 2010 13:22:52 GMT -5
[ and i am positive that zed is scum, either. but either he is lying his ass off or there is a role that i have never seen before. one that can not be watched but can be re directed. i mean do you see that as plausible? plus investigating a mason. c'mon he already said he wasn't stupid. but sorry that's just stupid. It is stupid, but it isn't me that is stupid. It's: 1. My role. 2. The fact I did not know that my role was both invisible, yet redirectable. Fucking complain if you lynch me. Upon the reveal, you will learn I was telling the truth and realize the bad situation that has been placed upon me.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 7, 2010 13:27:39 GMT -5
neta: fucking hell. "... i am not positive that zed is scum, either. but .... Sorry, I just read this. I'm catching up super quickly. Thought you meant that you were positive.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 7, 2010 13:30:57 GMT -5
For Zed to counterclaim me would have been a monumentally bad move by a scum. For a scum Zed to gain any town cred he would have had to have bussed a scumbuddy. He would have been better off accusing a townie of being scum, or sayng he was blocked, rather than stating he was redirected to skellington. I grant you, Zed's choices for investigation have been poor - cop and mason, but that in itself is not scummy. Exactly. I would not have counterclaimed if I was scum. Heck, I would at least told you about the invisibility of it if I had known. I feel like the role and my lack of info. is what is making me look scummy. If I had known the "conditions" of my investigation, I would have been more hesitant to counterclaim you. I assumed that it was straightforward, so I just did it and investigated you to see if you were legit. As for Red, I still say the masonry seems fishy to me, but I get how people can disagree. Investigating Batman, though? Seemed obvious to me.
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Post by Renata on Oct 7, 2010 13:31:14 GMT -5
SQUEEK (Because I said I was done discussing it. Oh, wait. Can't wink, don't have skin. As I said yesterDay, in Mad Science Mini I was a PFK who was part of a team of two; to win, we had to find a third PFK (or, more accurately, create that third PFK through experimentation). ) OK, that makes sense. I missed your mention of the specific game.
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Post by Mahaloth on Oct 7, 2010 13:32:33 GMT -5
And folks, I'll say it again.
We have two investigators(at least, it looks). I assume the game is complex enough that the mods felt we needed two. I mean, that's kind of powerful for a regular game.
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