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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 10, 2008 12:02:29 GMT -5
Molefan:
So far we have killed a Demon Lord and a vanilla town. I think we are doing just fine. Sure yesterday lynch was crappy, but most last minute lynches are. Kat and others were able to analyze posts and find scum day 1. That is not an easy task, and I take umbrage with considering it pure luck. Just because you don't like the reasoning, doesn't make the reasoning invalid.
Roosh:
I'm not accepting milk until you convince me that helping you is a pro-town action. In the meantime, care to try to find some scum?
My goal for the rest of the day is to take a closer look at our Smurfy friend.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 12:02:48 GMT -5
NAF, You've been talkative- May I offer you a nice refreshing Bottle of Ice Cold Milk? What the hell, it didn't hurt Cowman too much. Shoot it on over.
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Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
Posts: 18
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Jun 10, 2008 12:09:16 GMT -5
Milk me too.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 10, 2008 12:21:26 GMT -5
Okay, I know I've offered a lot of you milk already people! I NEED more of you guys to start accepting the Milk! The day is halfway through and I still have quite a bit of deliveries to make! If I can't deliver the milk, I'm going to be in trouble once again! PLEASE for my sake- will you take the Milk? I'm just going to chime in here to say: did I go crazy and miss something here? Why is everyone just doing what Roosh asks, without any real explanation or indication of what it might do? Roosh, I'm not taking jack from you without a damn good reason, and the free pass you've been getting from everyone on this incredible weirdness does not, I'm afraid, extend to me.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 10, 2008 12:30:34 GMT -5
Okay, I know I've offered a lot of you milk already people! I NEED more of you guys to start accepting the Milk! The day is halfway through and I still have quite a bit of deliveries to make! If I can't deliver the milk, I'm going to be in trouble once again! PLEASE for my sake- will you take the Milk? I'm just going to chime in here to say: did I go crazy and miss something here? Why is everyone just doing what Roosh asks, without any real explanation or indication of what it might do? Roosh, I'm not taking jack from you without a damn good reason, and the free pass you've been getting from everyone on this incredible weirdness does not, I'm afraid, extend to me. Not everyone is, but I'm suprised too at the nonchalantness that a lot of people are just taking the milk with. What if he's handing you bombs that go boom at dusk? I would have thought at the very least the Parnoid Flying Bovine would have refused. I'm just flabberghasted.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 12:36:12 GMT -5
If he is handing everyone bombs then we were fucked and Ataurs made a bad game. I have more faith in him than that.
Speaking of hockey:
In going over the first two Days I can actually kind of see where buff is coming from with her suspicion of you and her case against you is surprisingly good.
I want to get a vote out there early, but on re-read you jumped to the top of my scum list...and that is added to by the fact that no one was really on you BUT buff.
Just seems wrong to me.
vote HockeyMonkey
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 10, 2008 12:37:33 GMT -5
1) Scum might vote one another, but they won't target one another unless there's either a compelling strategic reason (eg one of them is confirmed by an investigator, not applicable in this case) or a personal one (eg the votor has an agenda that overrides loyalty to his fellow team mates, which as far as I know isn't applicable here either), and Sure, I can't imagine Scum targeting other Scum. Right FCoD? Santo? molefan, you and I had this same discussion in the Batman game. Your blanket pronouncements about what Scum will and won't do simply don't take into account the incredible individual variety in how players will behave. And it leads you to this: Everyone alludes to it all the time, but I'll just reiterate it. In my very first Mafia game, I was scum along with (among others) FCoD and Santo Rugger. On Day Two, I targeted and voted for FCoD. I hounded him for Days. When he was lynched, I did the same thing to Santo. By endgame, the remaining Townies - who were thinking exactly like you are right now - never even considered the possibility that I was Scum. The HUGE hint is only a HUGE hint because it turned out not to be misleading. Here we agree. I still don't quite understand it, and once I get caught up in the SDMB game that's where I'll be headed next. I hate it when people say that. Honestly, this need you have to lecture everyone about how much better you are than they are at this game is going, ultimately, to hurt your ability to communicate. Take that for what it's worth.
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Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 10, 2008 12:40:19 GMT -5
If he is handing everyone bombs then we were fucked and Ataurs made a bad game. I have more faith in him than that. Speaking of hockey: In going over the first two Days I can actually kind of see where buff is coming from with her suspicion of you and her case against you is surprisingly good. I want to get a vote out there early, but on re-read you jumped to the top of my scum list...and that is added to by the fact that no one was really on you BUT buff. Just seems wrong to me. vote HockeyMonkeyI'm just saying that we have no idea what the milk will do and everybody is all "OK, I'll have some", and it's just wierd. And how did I jump to the top of your scum list on the basis that only one person was hounding me? That makes no sense. Please rephrase into something coherent.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 10, 2008 12:56:03 GMT -5
I'm just saying that we have no idea what the milk will do and everybody is all "OK, I'll have some", and it's just wierd. It isn't even just that. Even the milk has no effect on the taker, it at least helps Roosh (or has no effect). Why is everyone convinced we should be helping Roosh? Roosh seems to be more concerned with his agenda than the town's even if he doesn't quite know what his agenda is. Instead of revealing what he knew early in the day yesterday to give the town a chance to interpret the information, he made a last minute claim that resulted in a mislynch. He still seems like he holding back information. Why are we trusting him?
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 12:56:53 GMT -5
If he is handing everyone bombs then we were fucked and Ataurs[sic] made a bad game. I have more faith in him than that. Ditto this. Sure, I can't imagine Scum targeting other Scum. Right FCoD? Santo? molefan, you and I had this same discussion in the Batman game. Your blanket pronouncements about what Scum will and won't do simply don't take into account the incredible individual variety in how players will behave. And it leads you to this: [...] Everyone alludes to it all the time, but I'll just reiterate it. In my very first Mafia game, I was scum along with (among others) FCoD and Santo Rugger. On Day Two, I targeted and voted for FCoD. I hounded him for Days. When he was lynched, I did the same thing to Santo. By endgame, the remaining Townies - who were thinking exactly like you are right now - never even considered the possibility that I was Scum. And this. This is also the reason I am nervous about believing you will use your zombarmy for good. At any rate, we're running out of time and don't have much to go on. I'm still comfortable with a tdpatriots lynch, but I am getting more suspicious of hockeymonkey's pursuit of bufftabby. I am tempted to think that the two of them are both scum trying to pull something like storyteller did, but then again buff is an un-counterclaimed mason. We've got WIFOM coming out the ass. --FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 12:59:05 GMT -5
hockeymonkey's pursuit of bufftabby. Scratch that. Reverse it. [/willywonka] --FCOD
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 13:19:34 GMT -5
If he is handing everyone bombs then we were fucked and Ataurs[sic] made a bad game. I have more faith in him than that. Ditto this. Can I just call him Pollux like I do on the dope so I don't have to check the spelling of his name everytime I wish to bring him up? (Don't know why, but I always misspell your name A man. Sorry about that)
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 13:22:50 GMT -5
And how did I jump to the top of your scum list on the basis that only one person was hounding me? That makes no sense. Please rephrase into something coherent. You didn't. You jumped to the top of my list because I did a re-read with a clear head, and came to (what seems to be) the opposite conclusion as FCoD. I think buff actually has a decent case against you, and I think the fact that no one has picked up on any of it is indicitive of scum not helping to push that case forward as they probably are doing with all the other cases. So buff's case + you otherwise being ignored = HM as most likely scum in my book.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 13:24:49 GMT -5
And how did I jump to the top of your scum list on the basis that only one person was hounding me? That makes no sense. Please rephrase into something coherent. You didn't. You jumped to the top of my list because I did a re-read with a clear head, and came to (what seems to be) the opposite conclusion as FCoD. I think buff actually has a decent case against you, and I think the fact that no one has picked up on any of it is indicitive of scum not helping to push that case forward as they probably are doing with all the other cases. So buff's case + you otherwise being ignored = HM as most likely scum in my book. Perhaps you could summarize your and buff's case for those that haven't yet had a chance to re-read... --FCOD
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 13:50:09 GMT -5
You didn't. You jumped to the top of my list because I did a re-read with a clear head, and came to (what seems to be) the opposite conclusion as FCoD. I think buff actually has a decent case against you, and I think the fact that no one has picked up on any of it is indicitive of scum not helping to push that case forward as they probably are doing with all the other cases. So buff's case + you otherwise being ignored = HM as most likely scum in my book. Perhaps you could summarize your and buff's case for those that haven't yet had a chance to re-read... --FCOD Sure, and I will do you one better. I will give you post numbers so you can go read for yourself. Now this is with the caveat that I don't trust buff as far as I can throw her. I think there is something SERIOUSLY funky going on there, but I don't think she is a demon so... What first caught my attention was this: from buff. Because she is right. It makes no sense to have that particular list. Then the back and forth between her and HM BT post D2 #89 HM post D2 P95 HM post D2 P104 BT post D2 P114 and HM post D2 P133 going back and forth over why the list. Is it gut, is it not. (sorry no more quotes or links just post numbers. The coding is too much of a bitch) Then Hockey's explination toDay. Which I don't like. Buff bought it, but I don't really. Add that in with the fact that no one paid attention yesterDay...just seems odd to me. Odd enough for a vote. I suppose you could be right Cowman, it could be something else entierly. But right now this is the only thing in the game that is really feeling like it makes sense. (Maybe that is a bad sign? )
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 14:31:22 GMT -5
1) Scum might vote one another, but they won't target one another unless there's either a compelling strategic reason (eg one of them is confirmed by an investigator, not applicable in this case) or a personal one (eg the votor has an agenda that overrides loyalty to his fellow team mates, which as far as I know isn't applicable here either), and Sure, I can't imagine Scum targeting other Scum. Right FCoD? Santo? molefan, you and I had this same discussion in the Batman game. Your blanket pronouncements about what Scum will and won't do simply don't take into account the incredible individual variety in how players will behave. And it leads you to this: Everyone alludes to it all the time, but I'll just reiterate it. In my very first Mafia game, I was scum along with (among others) FCoD and Santo Rugger. On Day Two, I targeted and voted for FCoD. I hounded him for Days. When he was lynched, I did the same thing to Santo. By endgame, the remaining Townies - who were thinking exactly like you are right now - never even considered the possibility that I was Scum. The HUGE hint is only a HUGE hint because it turned out not to be misleading. Here we agree. I still don't quite understand it, and once I get caught up in the SDMB game that's where I'll be headed next. I hate it when people say that. Honestly, this need you have to lecture everyone about how much better you are than they are at this game is going, ultimately, to hurt your ability to communicate. Take that for what it's worth. My comparison wasn't with my personal performance. If it was with my performance in the Batman game, I would probably come out just as badly, because I think I played appallingly until the last few rounds or so. (In fact, as you'll remember, I screwed up pretty badly myself at around about this point in the game with the lynch of - amusingly - Atarus, the host of this game.) My comparison was with the general townies in the Batman game. I still think there was a far more active, involved town element in that game than in this one. No - strike that - I KNOW there was a far more active, involved town element in that game than in this one. It doesn't take in-depth analysis to see that one; just reading a few pages of both day threads is enough. Hell, it took two separate day threads to complete the early days of "Arkham", and a far higher proportion of those threads were meaningful strategy or opinions or something that might actually help the town catch the scum! Now maybe I've been a bit harsh with calling the hockeyguy lynch "lucky", the first lynch in "Arkham" seemed somewhat haphazard as well (at least before the end, where the scum in question made a roleclaim that nobody believed and it made the last few votes much easier). As I recall, in the previous game there were townies attacking Diggit, who was the one person who'd actually (correctly) accused the scum who was lynched first off. But that doesn't change my point which is that - at least for the first two days - the town hasn't been working together anything like as effectively as it had in the previous game with regards to simply getting information out there. And I'm not just talking about roleclaims (after all, this isn't a no-vanilla game). I'm talking about simple things along the lines of "where does X stand?" without which the town simply will not be able to win IMO. As to me: I've come into this game with a determined attitude of "win or die". My karma's already low enough as it is, so if I have to push a few people to get results, it really doesn't bother me any. Last game, I made a few really bad decisions at the start and lost confidence in myself. So when Darth kept surviving and surviving, I said nothing, even though I was sure it was a bad idea to let him survive until the end. When DBI was lynched, I went along with it, even though I thought that there was a far greater need to get rid of the likes of BlaM first. And earlier on, even though I was pretty sure when Atarus went that DrainBead was scum instead, it took an investigation to get him out. I didn't push his name at all. Each time I was right, but I did nothing. Sorry, but this isn't going to happen again. I'm not going to be the guy who survives to the very end because he's no threat whatsoever to the scum, like last time; and I'm sure as hell going to do all I can to make sure the SDM fiasco isn't repeated on my watch. I wouldn't harp on about that just for the sake of criticism, except that it needs talking about. I mean, look at it from my POV. I come into this game having basically read the first few pages, the start of day two's colour, and pretty much nothing else. I have to go through the whole damn lot to catch up and the very first thing that I think when I read about SDM's penalty votes is: "Well, there's a good target for the scum to get a free lynch." And whaddya know, before I can even finish reading the day forums logs, it's a case of hey presto, SDM is lynched, despite what appears to me (despite your comment about my HUGE hint) to be excellent evidence for presuming that he's a harmless townie - or at least, given your comments about your actions with Santo, enough reason to put him very low down on my hitlist. So given all of that, given that it was practically inevitable that a group of scared scum who'd already lost one guy would see SDM as an easy target, do you not think it might be worth looking at SDM's lynch to see just who was encouraging it? Who was really responsible? Because I am willing to bet quite a lot of money that it'll eventually be traced back to a demon or two. I'd just rather make those connections now, instead of saying after the game: "Oh, it was so obvious X was responsible for SDM's lynch, how didn't notice that?" A LOT more coming up later. A few people are posting the kind of stuff I think will help. Roosh - I haven't ignored your analysis, far from it. I still have to sort out my own though. More later.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 14:53:02 GMT -5
So I'm alive. Didn't see that one coming.
Anyway, yesterday I took a complete break from the internet and went and did other stuff. Why? Well, because as RoOsh said, I tend to be on all the time - and frankly I needed a respite.
Six pages? Didn't see that one coming either. Anyway, briefly on the stuff that's been covered Today. If I missed something please point it out to me.
* On story. Put me in the 'if he's PFK, we can wait' camp. * On RoOsh. I will take some milk.
As far as molefan's upcoming investigation, I am annoyed by the self-referential nature of the post, but then - I did a lot of that myself on Day Two so who am I to talk? Anyway, I am curious as to how he will show that any of the SDM votes were definitively scummy. I mean, there were only three.
RoOsh's, if he's telling the truth (a possibility) was a self defense vote. tdpatriots12's, if he's telling the truth (a certainty, well, you can label it a possibility) was a self defense vote. NAF's, regardless of whether or not he is town, is such an incredibly risky vote that (warning) I don't see scum doing it. It puts him way out there, for no gain unless I'm a particularly important scum or something.
For my own part...
As far as how we got to the lynch, it seems like you'll be doing the legwork on that so I'll wait for your post before I go into any specific responses. Needless to say, for my own part, I spent the vast majority of Day Two explaining myself and saying SDM is probably town. I also said that my death would result in possibly more information for the town than SDM. I was convinced that my reasoning regarding my non-vote was flawed, and that's how my vote got on SDM
As far as the votes on me, the only one I didn't like was hockeymonkey's (yeah, was a smudge, but I was near death, didn't like it, but didn't have anything in particular to say about it - what can I say about a "Well, he's a better choice than SDM" in a post where she's also suspicious of ryjae?) Throw in bufftabby's interesting suspicions about HM and that means I have some rereading to do.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 10, 2008 14:58:20 GMT -5
Can I just call him Pollux like I do on the dope so I don't have to check the spelling of his name everytime I wish to bring him up? (Don't know why, but I always misspell your name A man. Sorry about that) Heh. To be fair, I'm probably going to change my name to Pollux over here once this game is done to make things easier.
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 10, 2008 15:27:55 GMT -5
Perhaps you could summarize your and buff's case for those that haven't yet had a chance to re-read... --FCOD Sure, and I will do you one better. I will give you post numbers so you can go read for yourself. Now this is with the caveat that I don't trust buff as far as I can throw her. I think there is something SERIOUSLY funky going on there, but I don't think she is a demon so... What first caught my attention was this: from buff. Because she is right. It makes no sense to have that particular list. Then the back and forth between her and HM BT post D2 #89 HM post D2 P95 HM post D2 P104 BT post D2 P114 and HM post D2 P133 going back and forth over why the list. Is it gut, is it not. (sorry no more quotes or links just post numbers. The coding is too much of a bitch) Then Hockey's explination toDay. Which I don't like. Buff bought it, but I don't really. Add that in with the fact that no one paid attention yesterDay...just seems odd to me. Odd enough for a vote. I suppose you could be right Cowman, it could be something else entierly. But right now this is the only thing in the game that is really feeling like it makes sense. (Maybe that is a bad sign? ) Buff didn't buy it one bit. This is what I said: Buff, I'm sorry if you felt I was being pissy with you. Not my intention at all. I see now that your issue is with the word solely. That was pretty much tounge in cheek, and I think I even included a to go with it. At that point in time, (and good lord, it was way back on day one!) I put my suspicions out there based mostly on my gut feelings. 98% gut feeling, 1% analysis from my brain, 1% analysis from other people's brains. I don't like absolutes, and I didn't want to say I 100% based my suspicions on my gut, but it was mostly that. So yeah, I thought I had answered your question (you can't divine my intent from my thoughts)...I see now that I didn't. There are bigger issues at hand today. I've had this window open trying to respond for at least an hour now, and have been interrupted by work the whole time. I'm about to leave and go home for the day. I'm sure more posts have been made in the meantime, and I'll read them when I get home. I'm not sure why you didn't explain this before. I thought I made it pretty clear that I'd grokked the bit on the gut, and where my remaining questions were coming from. I'm still feeling like you might have been engaging in some scummy avoidance behavior, but I'm now done questioning you on the subject, at least. I'm done questioning her on the subject because I don't have any more questions. I've laid my evidence out there, and you're the only one I've seen take any interest in it, NAF. I can see how that statement might be misinterpreted, but I didn't remove my vote from her or anything. FCOD, I think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that HM and I are involved in some tricky scum plot together. I understand considering that as a possibility, as I am certainly far from confirmed for most players, but it just seems silly to assert that it must be the case. OMGUS much?
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 15:31:46 GMT -5
Sure, and I will do you one better. I will give you post numbers so you can go read for yourself. Now this is with the caveat that I don't trust buff as far as I can throw her. I think there is something SERIOUSLY funky going on there, but I don't think she is a demon so... What first caught my attention was this: from buff. Because she is right. It makes no sense to have that particular list. Then the back and forth between her and HM BT post D2 #89 HM post D2 P95 HM post D2 P104 BT post D2 P114 and HM post D2 P133 going back and forth over why the list. Is it gut, is it not. (sorry no more quotes or links just post numbers. The coding is too much of a bitch) Then Hockey's explination toDay. Which I don't like. Buff bought it, but I don't really. Add that in with the fact that no one paid attention yesterDay...just seems odd to me. Odd enough for a vote. I suppose you could be right Cowman, it could be something else entierly. But right now this is the only thing in the game that is really feeling like it makes sense. (Maybe that is a bad sign? ) Buff didn't buy it one bit. This is what I said: I'm not sure why you didn't explain this before. I thought I made it pretty clear that I'd grokked the bit on the gut, and where my remaining questions were coming from. I'm still feeling like you might have been engaging in some scummy avoidance behavior, but I'm now done questioning you on the subject, at least. I'm done questioning her on the subject because I don't have any more questions. I've laid my evidence out there, and you're the only one I've seen take any interest in it, NAF. I can see how that statement might be misinterpreted, but I didn't remove my vote from her or anything. FCOD, I think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that HM and I are involved in some tricky scum plot together. I understand considering that as a possibility, as I am certainly far from confirmed for most players, but it just seems silly to assert that it must be the case. OMGUS much? Fair point that you didn't remove your vote. The comment made it sound like you were less suspicious, but I can see it as being more of a "maybe if you said that sooner I wouldn't be voting for you, but saying it now means you are probably still lying scum." In which case, I am sorry if I mischaracterized what you said. Did I do a decent job on the summary?
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 15:48:40 GMT -5
FCOD, I think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that HM and I are involved in some tricky scum plot together. I understand considering that as a possibility, as I am certainly far from confirmed for most players, but it just seems silly to assert that it must be the case. OMGUS much? OMFG you are NOT going to twist my words around AGAIN. WHERE did I assert that you and HG were involved in a scum plot? This is the THIRD time you've said I did something I didn't, and frankly, it's pissing me off. Here's the relevant part of the only post I've made that mentions both of you: At any rate, we're running out of time and don't have much to go on. I'm still comfortable with a tdpatriots lynch, but I am getting more suspicious of hockeymonkey's pursuit of bufftabby. I am tempted to think that the two of them are both scum trying to pull something like storyteller did, but then again buff is an un-counterclaimed mason. We've got WIFOM coming out the ass. Show me where I "jumped to a conclusion". Show me where I "asserted" that it "must be the case". If you can't, then please stop making shit up. Since you've done this to me THREE times, I have to assume that either you're on a mission to make me look bad or you're posting without actually reading what other people are saying. Which is it? --FCOD p.s. I realize that my tone in this post is hostile, but I am damn sick of bufftabby's gross exaggerations of my words. I can look up the other two times she's done it for anyone that thinks I'm going a little over the top.
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 10, 2008 16:30:29 GMT -5
FCOD, I think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that HM and I are involved in some tricky scum plot together. I understand considering that as a possibility, as I am certainly far from confirmed for most players, but it just seems silly to assert that it must be the case. OMGUS much? OMFG you are NOT going to twist my words around AGAIN. WHERE did I assert that you and HG were involved in a scum plot? This is the THIRD time you've said I did something I didn't, and frankly, it's pissing me off. Here's the relevant part of the only post I've made that mentions both of you: At any rate, we're running out of time and don't have much to go on. I'm still comfortable with a tdpatriots lynch, but I am getting more suspicious of hockeymonkey's pursuit of bufftabby. I am tempted to think that the two of them are both scum trying to pull something like storyteller did, but then again buff is an un-counterclaimed mason. We've got WIFOM coming out the ass. Show me where I "jumped to a conclusion". Show me where I "asserted" that it "must be the case". If you can't, then please stop making shit up. Since you've done this to me THREE times, I have to assume that either you're on a mission to make me look bad or you're posting without actually reading what other people are saying. Which is it? --FCOD p.s. I realize that my tone in this post is hostile, but I am damn sick of bufftabby's gross exaggerations of my words. I can look up the other two times she's done it for anyone that thinks I'm going a little over the top. Please do pull up my other "gross exaggerations" if you really feel like justifying your hostile-ass tone, but it doesn't make much difference to me. What's really funny about your accusation that I'm not reading people's posts, is that you referred to Hockey Monkey's pursuit of me, when clearly it's been the other way around. I realize that you corrected yourself right afterward, but that's really some pot-kettle-black business. To be fair, you're right on this one, in that you didn't assert it. I misremembered your stance as being much stronger on the subject, and I apologize for misreading it. <<Hands FCOD some vice grips>> Here, you're gonna need these to pull your panties out of your ass.
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 10, 2008 16:38:28 GMT -5
Buff didn't buy it one bit. This is what I said: I'm done questioning her on the subject because I don't have any more questions. I've laid my evidence out there, and you're the only one I've seen take any interest in it, NAF. I can see how that statement might be misinterpreted, but I didn't remove my vote from her or anything. FCOD, I think it's funny that you've jumped to the conclusion that HM and I are involved in some tricky scum plot together. I understand considering that as a possibility, as I am certainly far from confirmed for most players, but it just seems silly to assert that it must be the case. OMGUS much? Fair point that you didn't remove your vote. The comment made it sound like you were less suspicious, but I can see it as being more of a "maybe if you said that sooner I wouldn't be voting for you, but saying it now means you are probably still lying scum." In which case, I am sorry if I mischaracterized what you said. Did I do a decent job on the summary? The only thing I would add to the summary is that after the first few bits of back and forth, she stopped answering me until I posted again, twice, telling me she'd already answered my question. I made it clear as well that I wanted to know what else besides her gut was driving that list. Her eventual response after I made my case again toDay, seems like scum trying to wiggle out of the failed strategy of ignoring me. But yes, your summary was pretty accurate, and I appreciate the post numbers.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 17:00:26 GMT -5
So I'm alive. Didn't see that one coming. Anyway, yesterday I took a complete break from the internet and went and did other stuff. Why? Well, because as RoOsh said, I tend to be on all the time - and frankly I needed a respite. Six pages? Didn't see that one coming either. Anyway, briefly on the stuff that's been covered Today. If I missed something please point it out to me. * On story. Put me in the 'if he's PFK, we can wait' camp. * On RoOsh. I will take some milk. As far as molefan's upcoming investigation, I am annoyed by the self-referential nature of the post, but then - I did a lot of that myself on Day Two so who am I to talk? Anyway, I am curious as to how he will show that any of the SDM votes were definitively scummy. I mean, there were only three. RoOsh's, if he's telling the truth (a possibility) was a self defense vote. tdpatriots12's, if he's telling the truth (a certainty, well, you can label it a possibility) was a self defense vote. NAF's, regardless of whether or not he is town, is such an incredibly risky vote that (warning) I don't see scum doing it. It puts him way out there, for no gain unless I'm a particularly important scum or something. For my own part... As far as how we got to the lynch, it seems like you'll be doing the legwork on that so I'll wait for your post before I go into any specific responses. Needless to say, for my own part, I spent the vast majority of Day Two explaining myself and saying SDM is probably town. I also said that my death would result in possibly more information for the town than SDM. I was convinced that my reasoning regarding my non-vote was flawed, and that's how my vote got on SDMAs far as the votes on me, the only one I didn't like was hockeymonkey's (yeah, was a smudge, but I was near death, didn't like it, but didn't have anything in particular to say about it - what can I say about a "Well, he's a better choice than SDM" in a post where she's also suspicious of ryjae?) Throw in bufftabby's interesting suspicions about HM and that means I have some rereading to do. Right now I'm more interested in the fact that everyone seemed to resign themselves, far too early for my liking, to the fact that you and SDM were the only two possible lynches. While some people questioned this, nobody who proposed an alternative seemed to be taken seriously. You see, I see two likely explanations for what happened in day two. One, which I've already proposed, is that you're scum and so are the people who either voted SDM or encouraged others to vote him. Of course, you might possibly have a few problems with that one. Don't worry though, I have another. The alternative explanation to the "TDPats = Scum" theory is that the scum could see that this was heading towards a town vs. town situation, and wanted to keep it that way if possible. If true, that would suggest that at some point a real scum could have been targeted by someone, but the idea never got caught up into a bandwagon (unlike the HockeyGuy situation). I like this one because it kinda fits in with my feeling that what we're dealing now is a scum group that's more fearful than vengeful. They're not making big aggressive plays, they're staying quiet and feeling their way around. (This BTW is also why I'm very much in two minds about Story... zombie-summoning seems scummy, but it's a bloody odd thing to claim if it's a secret demon power. Why admit to it, unless it benefits the town more than the scum?) BTW Story, if you are town-aligned, I would be very careful with those zombies of yours. I don't know if anybody remembers the initial debate about the opening "color". I've just re-read it, and it specifically mentions that dead bodies can be possessed by demons. This current crop of zombies seems benign enough, but the last thing I personally want to see is a rampaging demon zombie serial-killer with its own night kills! Story, have you been told that something like this - a demon-possessed zombie - can't happen?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 17:06:10 GMT -5
I'm sorry, I just re-read my own post and noticed this:
And I wondered whether it could get any more bizarre than shark-repellant bat-spray... Question answered methinks!
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 18:21:18 GMT -5
So given all of that, given that it was practically inevitable that a group of scared scum who'd already lost one guy would see SDM as an easy target, do you not think it might be worth looking at SDM's lynch to see just who was encouraging it? Who was really responsible? Because I am willing to bet quite a lot of money that it'll eventually be traced back to a demon or two. I'd just rather make those connections now, instead of saying after the game: "Oh, it was so obvious X was responsible for SDM's lynch, how didn't notice that?" A LOT more coming up later. A few people are posting the kind of stuff I think will help. Roosh - I haven't ignored your analysis, far from it. I still have to sort out my own though. More later. This is actually a very good observation and one I'd never put together(penalty + lynch = opportunism) so I shall be having another look at the votes yesterday. Hockey Monkey probably is not our best lynch for today. More coming as I catch up.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 18:51:38 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey probably is not our best lynch for today. Cool, cool. I am picking up what you are laying down. I can dig... No, wait, what? You have a reason for feeling that way or is this just a random thought you had? Sorry, just it just seemed like such a strange nonsequiter amongst all the other stuff you were saying.
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 19:09:26 GMT -5
Well I see her picking up votes(although I haven't taken a look at a recent VC) yet am not convinced she is the play for today, despite having my vote on her yesterday. Just a feeling so far and has potential to change.
For the record, proboards only letting me hit 'preview' once then locking up when I try to hit the button a second time is annoying. </3 Proboards/Firefox.
Storyteller, I am intrigued by your assumption that scum would not target one another.
Ro0sh, while I can't fathom you making up such a bizarre role, I do not see which of your first three results could be interpreted as WIFOM. Maybe it's me and I need to get more sleep. You tell me.
Tentatively Vote : NAF1138 for being the SDM voter I think has most potential to be scum(going by final vote count). Likely to change shortly.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 19:33:04 GMT -5
This is actually a very good observation and one I'd never put together(penalty + lynch = opportunism) so I shall be having another look at the votes yesterday. Eh, sure, it's a possibility. But I'm thinking that the scum would have wanted to stay as far away from SDM as possible. His +5 penalty votes mean that every vote that was actually placed on him is going to draw more attention than the average vote. I mean, even mathematically it works out. Only 3 people voted for him, and he was lynched with a total of 8. That means my vote, for example, was worth (in terms of pure value in pushing a lynch) more than twice as much as any vote on me. Meaning it stands out. Why would the scum go to such trouble? (Just to be even clearler, I mean that 8/3 = 2.67, and 7/7 = 1) * If I'm a powerful scum role. If I'm a goon, what's the value in RoOsh and/or NAF making as big of a scene as both of them did (Roosh by volume, NAF by timing) ? * If RoOsh and/or NAF are scum and they believed that SDM was more likely to be a power role than me. This strikes me as possible, but remotely. * If both SDM and myself are town, then RoOsh and/or NAF were each, in effect, trying to keep the most townies alive as possible. Or had their own reasons for their vote, especially RoOsh. * Other? Feel free. Option #1 you could always test by lynching or investigating me. Option #2, well, I'm not sure how that could be confirmed, but you'd think if either of us was a town power role, we probly woulda claimed. Option #3, well, that requires you to believe me (and not necessarily RoOsh or NAF), so I can understand how people would be hesitant to accept it based on my reasoning alone. Also note gratuitous use of and/or. I never got the impression RoOsh and NAF were working together at all. This is going to sound incredibly self-serving, but I don't think any scum voted SDM, for reasons stated above. It just isn't nearly as good of an "opportunity" as it appears initially, in my view.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 19:43:40 GMT -5
Please do pull up my other "gross exaggerations" if you really feel like justifying your hostile-ass tone, but it doesn't make much difference to me. What's really funny about your accusation that I'm not reading people's posts, is that you referred to Hockey Monkey's pursuit of me, when clearly it's been the other way around. I realize that you corrected yourself right afterward, but that's really some pot-kettle-black business. To be fair, you're right on this one, in that you didn't assert it. I misremembered your stance as being much stronger on the subject, and I apologize for misreading it. <<Hands FCOD some vice grips>> Here, you're gonna need these to pull your panties out of your ass. Wow, you really are something else aren't you? The reversal of your names (a simple typographical error that I corrected immediately), has nothing to do with exaggerating/mis-representing actions. It just goes to show even more that you are arguing without basis. Here's the post where I summed up the first time you said I did things I didn't: Day One #334. You said I had no belief in the possibility that Hal was town, and that I had a hard-on for voting for him, when I had explained exactly the opposite several times before your accusatory post. Even storyteller noticed your exaggeration: Day One #296. Here's the second time: Day Two # 253. You made it seem that I was trying to get people to lynch Hal, when I again I had done nothing of the sort. ToDay, I mentioned as a complete hypothetical the possibility that you are involved with a scum conspiracy (and then immediately refute it) but you make it seem as though I said it was the only possibility. So I ask again: are you trying to make me look bad on purpose, or do you not actually read my posts before making accusations based upon them? --FCOD
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