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Post by Rysto on Jun 10, 2008 20:22:56 GMT -5
I was working on a good long post presenting a case against Hockey Monkey, but it just wasn't working. My impression was that her vote on Day One was scummy, but a detailed analysis doesn't show much at all. The bandwagon against hockeyguy built up so fast that the scum wouldn't have had much time to try and derail it. If they were away for the short, critical period between bufftabby's claim and hockeyguy becoming the only viable candidate(there's like 5 hours -- from starting at 11:30 pm Eastern -- between bufftabby's claim and hockeyguy picking up 5 more votes to have a 8-5 lead over bufftabby, with a couple of one-off and two-off voters. How are we supposed to learn anything from that?). What I will say is this: - A couple times HM has made posts in which she throws out an casual reference to how she doesn't have an interesting role this go-around. I think that there's a possibility that she's deliberately trying to give this impression. - Her Day One( Tragic) and Day Three( Roosh) votes feel opportunistic. Tragic voted for a claimed Mason. Roosh is being very weird. I have a hard time seeing a scum motivation for either action, but both are the kind of thing that we've lynched Townies for before. I'm not sure if that's enough to throw a vote her way, but I thought I'd put that out there before I collapse into bed.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 21:12:55 GMT -5
Storyteller, I am intrigued by your assumption that scum would not target one another. I think Story was making the opposite point - he was saying that as a scum, he had targeted Santo himself, and therefore I shouldn't be assuming that StarDragonMan wasn't scum just because he was the first to vote HockeyGuy. (I wouldn't have.) My counterpoint is that it's not just his vote - his actions after that were pretty much the opposite of what I'd expect a scum to do in the situation he was in.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:17:12 GMT -5
I'm actually a big fan of milk. Go through quite a bit of it each week. There's always room for more. Of course, if this does something bad to me, I will hunt you down and kill you. Roosh Delivers Milk to Nanook.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:18:53 GMT -5
NAF, You've been talkative- May I offer you a nice refreshing Bottle of Ice Cold Milk? What the hell, it didn't hurt Cowman too much. Shoot it on over. Roosh delivers Milk to NAF1138
Thank You! And Thank you Nanook as well! I really do appreciate it from the bottom of my shoes to the top of my hat!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:20:44 GMT -5
Roosh Delivers Milk to Darth Sensitive
Thank you! And I hope your shoes will go away in due time!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:21:42 GMT -5
* On RoOsh. I will take some milk. Doesn't work like that. But I appreciate your enthusiasm! Tdpatriots, May I interest you in a Refreshing Bottle of Ice Cold Milk?
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 21:21:50 GMT -5
What the hell, it didn't hurt Cowman too much. Shoot it on over. Roosh delivers Milk to NAF1138
Thank You! And Thank you Nanook as well! I really do appreciate it from the bottom of my shoes to the top of my hat! Wait wait wait, is this to do with post counts? Do you get a reward based on the amount of posts that people make when they drink the milk? That is one seriously odd ability...?
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 21:25:53 GMT -5
* On RoOsh. I will take some milk. Doesn't work like that. But I appreciate your enthusiasm! Tdpatriots, May I interest you in a Refreshing Bottle of Ice Cold Milk?/sigh Sure, fine, whatever.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:29:06 GMT -5
Wait wait wait, is this to do with post counts? Do you get a reward based on the amount of posts that people make when they drink the milk? No. Not at all. that I know of. I think. There is a rhythm to delivering milk though. But it's not Post Counts. There isn't a reward for me delivering milk that I know of.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:31:03 GMT -5
Ro0sh, while I can't fathom you making up such a bizarre role, I do not see which of your first three results could be interpreted as WIFOM. Maybe it's me and I need to get more sleep. You tell me. On the WIFOM issue: I'm not sure what this means. Right now, I'm taking it to mean, it could be true or it couldn't be true, as that's what WIFOM usually is- it's a choice between two- though in the Original Wifom from Princess bride- it turned out both cups were poisoned. So maybe it means 2 statements are true and one false? I'm not sure. So I'll leave the heavier thinking to the Dopers that like that sort of thing, and I'm right now focusing on the one with the MOST dire consequences, and the one thats most likely to get me to not be around longer. Ie: the Lovers idea yesterDay, and toDay my damn bottles of Milk! If those are a lie, then the Jokes on me. But if they're true... well, I'd REALLY not like to find out the hard way. So i'm trying to complete my tasks before the Day ends in hopes of still getting to find out what's going on. Information is the Key to Mafia, and right now, I don't really possess a lot of it. So I'm just playing to maximize my information right now. *Though, I'm of the opinion that my Milk probably won't kill everyone at the end of the Day or have that fatal of a consequence. Because at this point, I've milked 8 people. So if its a Fatal thing, well then... we better hope I milked all the Scum. But I REALLY doubt that Atarus has built in a mechanism into his game that would cause EVERY person to have a chance of dying just like that. Because that is SERIOUS Bastard-Moddery, and one that I expect if in a game, sufficient warning to be told about.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 21:32:57 GMT -5
Roosh delivers Milk to tdpatriots12.Whoo! I appreciate everyone's love of milk and hope it continues! Just a wee bit more before I can finish with the Day's deliveries! Thank you ALL very much! Please Enjoy the Milk!
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 21:37:26 GMT -5
It seems to me two things from your first three did come true. - You were paranoid (about tdpatriots12 being your lover) - You are having to deliver milk (You might also still be paranoid)
...right?
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Post by Gir! on Jun 10, 2008 21:46:25 GMT -5
I'm going to hypothesize that the Milk Thing is likely to not be harmful to the players, based on the fact that atarus legitimized Roosh's delivery to me, even though, technically, I never agreed to it, being a smart-ass and all. (Well, more accurately, that Roosh reported atarus doing so, which, if that's not true, implies the whole Milk Thing is a hoax and would have no effect (or is that affect?) anyway.)
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 10, 2008 21:58:24 GMT -5
Please do pull up my other "gross exaggerations" if you really feel like justifying your hostile-ass tone, but it doesn't make much difference to me. What's really funny about your accusation that I'm not reading people's posts, is that you referred to Hockey Monkey's pursuit of me, when clearly it's been the other way around. I realize that you corrected yourself right afterward, but that's really some pot-kettle-black business. To be fair, you're right on this one, in that you didn't assert it. I misremembered your stance as being much stronger on the subject, and I apologize for misreading it. <<Hands FCOD some vice grips>> Here, you're gonna need these to pull your panties out of your ass. Wow, you really are something else aren't you? The reversal of your names (a simple typographical error that I corrected immediately), has nothing to do with exaggerating/mis-representing actions. It just goes to show even more that you are arguing without basis. Here's the post where I summed up the first time you said I did things I didn't: Day One #334. You said I had no belief in the possibility that Hal was town, and that I had a hard-on for voting for him, when I had explained exactly the opposite several times before your accusatory post. Even storyteller noticed your exaggeration: Day One #296. Here's the second time: Day Two # 253. You made it seem that I was trying to get people to lynch Hal, when I again I had done nothing of the sort. ToDay, I mentioned as a complete hypothetical the possibility that you are involved with a scum conspiracy (and then immediately refute it) but you make it seem as though I said it was the only possibility. So I ask again: are you trying to make me look bad on purpose, or do you not actually read my posts before making accusations based upon them? --FCOD No, and no, but thanks for asking. Me being suspicious of you, and you thinking I'm wrong, doesn't equal any sort of intentional mischaracterization of you. Since this game is about finding people's real motivations, I'm not going to take your word for it what your motivations are. I'm going to examine what you say, and draw my own conclusions. There's nothing insidious or ingenuous about that, but I do find it curious that you act like I've maligned you so greatly in doing so.
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Post by Gir! on Jun 10, 2008 22:04:51 GMT -5
So, being basically lazy today, I took a look back at Czech's posts, because he's only got 38 of them (counting posts not in the game) and because I've already called him out on not voting.
Two things (apart from the no-votes) caught my curiosity.
On May 31 at 11:57 AM, Czech posted the following (in response to mhaye saying "I could vote for Hockeyguy; the trouble is that his defence problems may be caused by honest new-guy confusion."):
Then at 1:03 PM of the same day, he asked hockeyguy:
This last exchange seems to imply that Czech still found hockeyguy's defense lacking, but he doesn't come out and say anything concrete about it one way or the other, and he never posts again that Day after HG's response to that question. As mentioned previously, Czech had no vote at Day's End on Day One. If he wasn't going to be back again before the end of the day (which was scheduled to end about 6 hours later), why didn't he vote while he was there?
The other is that Czech happened to pop up and post 4 times starting 10 minutes after I called him out for not voting. He's got an excuse of having had a busy week, but he also posted in the Night Two thread that he was all caught up; did he not have any opinions of Day Two happenings that could have gone up while he was here?
To a lesser extent, "At the moment, I can't really see Bufftabby's scumtells either, as much as I'd like to get people on that bandwagon and off mine." but I can see a Townie saying that, under the "I'm 100% sure I'm Town" principle.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Jun 10, 2008 22:16:12 GMT -5
Tentatively Vote : NAF1138 for being the SDM voter I think has most potential to be scum(going by final vote count). Likely to change shortly. I'm confused here. Are you asking for mod clarification on your vote? Because votes are supposed to be in blue, as per the rules they don't count if they're not in the right color. Oh hey, speaking of votes. Vote Counttdpatriots (2): Nanook, FlyingCowofDoom hockeymonkey (2): bufftabby, NAF1138 Roosh (1): hockeymonkey Nanook (1): Rysto Not Voting: 13 Hey let's do a friendly post count too. It looks like we're doing pretty good for the post counts, mostly. Remember, a little less than 48 hours until the end of the Day.
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 22:32:59 GMT -5
/smacks self
Vote : NAM
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 22:33:53 GMT -5
*sigh*
Let's try this one more time.
NAF1138
catching up on new stuff. Real post incoming.
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 22:41:13 GMT -5
FOR GOD SAKE I swear I am not a newb but I am proving to be one today. Vote : NAF1138Eh, sure, it's a possibility. But I'm thinking that the scum would have wanted to stay as far away from SDM as possible. WIFOM But, you have a point although it really depends on what you wind up being. If you're scum, I'd definitely urge everyone to take a much closer look to the votes(which would be obvious). But, just a placeholder. Storyteller, I am intrigued by your assumption that scum would not target one another. I think Story was making the opposite point - he was saying that as a scum, he had targeted Santo himself, and therefore I shouldn't be assuming that StarDragonMan wasn't scum just because he was the first to vote HockeyGuy. (I wouldn't have.) My counterpoint is that it's not just his vote - his actions after that were pretty much the opposite of what I'd expect a scum to do in the situation he was in. Gotcha. My sarcasm detector must not be working today.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 10, 2008 22:42:20 GMT -5
/smacks self Vote : NAM[/clor]Sometimes I love having a name that makes sense only to me. ;D
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 22:45:10 GMT -5
If that's WIFOM, then isn't "I'm thinking the scum would use SDM's penalty votes as an opportunity for a mislynch?" All I was saying is that it might be an incorrect assumption. Plus, it's not like I made that statement and left it to hang out there, I went through my reasons for thinking so.
Do you disagree with any of the 3 scenarios I suggested? Do you have any others?
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 23:00:13 GMT -5
Ro0sh, while I can't fathom you making up such a bizarre role, I do not see which of your first three results could be interpreted as WIFOM. Maybe it's me and I need to get more sleep. You tell me. On the WIFOM issue: I'm not sure what this means. Right now, I'm taking it to mean, it could be true or it couldn't be true, as that's what WIFOM usually is- it's a choice between two- though in the Original Wifom from Princess bride- it turned out both cups were poisoned. So maybe it means 2 statements are true and one false? I'm not sure. Hmm, never thought of it that way as WIFOM typically refers to circular logic. But this would leave you in a little ditch of one being true, one being false, one being 'maybe'. Which basically means you can't figure a whole lot out unless you confirm the validity of two to figure out the third. My head hurts just typing that out. If that's WIFOM, then isn't "I'm thinking the scum would use SDM's penalty votes as an opportunity for a mislynch?" All I was saying is that it might be an incorrect assumption. Plus, it's not like I made that statement and left it to hang out there, I went through my reasons for thinking so. Do you disagree with any of the 3 scenarios I suggested? Do you have any others? That's what makes this WIFOM. If even one is scum alongside you, then they could simply argue the very next day the way you are. "Why would I do that if I was scum? It makes me stand out." I'm typically not in favor of giving someone a get out of jail free card simply because they did something that seems to be 'too' scummy. Same goes with BUSing & clearing someone because of it. If you understand beforehand the way people may interpret your behavior the next day, you could always get around it. The thing that is most enlightening is more consistent behavior. Agree entirely on this one, aside from the fact I don't know how they would be able to gage whether or not he had a role any better than Town would. Yes. Which is why my vote is very tentative. I need to actually reread the end of the last day. I skimmed over really quickly and saw a hasty hammer, which is why I placed the vote on him rather than one of the other two. I know the logic is fragile here, obviously, because in part it relies on you actually being scum, which I have no way of knowing with any certainty. I just have not having a vote somewhere as I did when Day One ended.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 23:26:43 GMT -5
All right, I understand your point. My problem is I don't see any other method by which I can express my thoughts about the votes.
Since my role in Yesterday's votes can't be tossed aside, if I'm going to comment on it at all, I have to of course make arguments that in some way refer to my alignment. At least, in that post, I tried to analyze all the angles I could think of because I was trying to make a point about the SDM votes, not particularly to argue my innocence (although, as I admitted, it conveniently does both).
The goal of my post was only to show that it was unreasonable to assume that the SDM penalty votes led to a situation that scum opportunistically exploited, because there was nothing particularly opportunistic about it.
Ultimately though, if I don't post that, then what? I can't assume that someone else will raise the same issues. Mehhh.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:28:20 GMT -5
It seems to me two things from your first three did come true. - You were paranoid (about tdpatriots12 being your lover) - You are having to deliver milk (You might also still be paranoid) ...right? I'd think so, but the Paranoid thing makes NO sense to me if I'm NOT an investigative role? ie: Do i have random effects every night- in which case if it were investogative, are my results always paranoid? That's what I don't get.... The Milkman one seems to be the most realistically true one. Though I don't want to find out that BOTH the milkmen ones were lies, and that I AM your Lover. It's that sort of thing that kinda freaks me out. Because of the 3 choices I've gotten, I've had 1 each Day that I REALLY don't want to find out if its right/wrong.... Hence maybe THAT's the WIFOM one? That's why I'm thinking I just gather Data, and if I get as many pieces of the puzzle, eventually one of you guys will be able to logic out what the hell I am. It's fun, but it's REALLY tricky- as I basically CANNOT justify a proper defense against myself. Ie: Hawkeye- you keep asking me to try to give you a pro-town reason for keeping me alive. I can't give you a 100% answer to that one yet. And that's what sucks the most about it. That's why on Day 2, I didn't say anything. I REALLY REALLY did NOT want to talk about my role, as it really is a mess to try to explain it. But I relized today I kinda had to, because of my Day 2 actions, AND because toDay I'd be making a TON of posts (just see the post counts). But yeah sorry Hawkie, I don't have a DEFINITE reason for keeping me alive yet.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 10, 2008 23:32:03 GMT -5
No, RoOsh I mean you were (and still are) paranoid, not your role. Maybe that's the WIFOM part?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:33:54 GMT -5
No, RoOsh I mean you were (and still are) paranoid, not your role. Maybe that's the WIFOM part? I hate you, Atarus. I have no idea then. In which case... what's toDay's WIFOM? I'm a crazie townie in real life? I can't win if scum win in real life?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:36:44 GMT -5
FOR GOD SAKE I swear I am not a newb but I am proving to be one today. Perhaps Kison you need something for what ails you and your Newbieness*! Kison, Can I interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?*No promises of actually fixing newbieness guaranteed.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:38:53 GMT -5
Mhaye, I know you've always got a tendency to vote late, but you'll want to take advantage of this deal early!
Mhaye, can I interest you in a bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:41:11 GMT -5
Bufftabby, you know what's better than Pee Cakes?
MILK!
Bufftabby, can i interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?
Milk is good for the mind, body, and soul, and a beautiful female such as yourself totally knows and understands the value of a healthy mind, body, and soul!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:42:42 GMT -5
Rysto, I know you distrust it.
But can i please try an offer you a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?
You're a beautiful beautiful man, and know the value of a healthy mind, body, and soul!
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