Post by NAF1138 on May 22, 2007 10:13:32 GMT -5
I am going to try to post a digest version of the day we already had.
Hope this works.
Malacandra View profile
The sun rises over the balmy mid-Atlantic to reveal a scene of bloody horror. The ship's owner, Squire Trelawney; her commander, Captain Smollett; and her ship's surgeon, Doctor Livesey, have all been foully murdered in the night. Or have they? Rumour spreads quicker than fire through a small ship - that all three officers were really imposters, and the real Squire, Captain and Doctor are hiding out anonymously among the crew. Also missing is the ship's cook, honest John Silver. The culprits must be found before the murderers strike again! This Day is beginning at 12 noon UK time (GMT+1). It will end 72 hours from now, on Thursday 24th May at 12 noon my time. Twelve votes for a single player will start a 6-hour countdown (as long as I see it).
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:06:36 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 5:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Cool. Anyone have suggestions on how to begin? I'm training a couple of
interns this morning, but I should be able to weigh in with some general
thoughts, observations, and cautions gleaned from the other games I've
witnessed (and am witnessing) later in the day.
The biggest thing to remember, I think, is that every damn thing is pretty
random at this point...I'm assuming the pirates haven't even had a chance to
confer (Mal, is this right?), although I'm sure they know who each other
are, as do the Squire/Captain/Doctor trio. So there's probably not going to
be any overt or sophisticated strategy in play just yet by the baddies or
the goodies. The most we can say, I think, is that if the pirates see one
of their own in danger of heading to the yardarm, they'll likely take steps
to subtly prevent that from happening. But since odds are against our
alighting on a pirate on our first hanging (plank-walking?) attempt anyway,
it probably won't be necessary for them to show themselves even to that
extent.
Which, hey, gives me an idea (damn it...I started this as a short note, and
now I'm late for the bus): since, statistically speaking, any random lynch
target is much more likely to be crew than pirate at this point (assuming
standard-ish distribution of roles, yadda yadda), and since we're pretty
much operating on nothing but randomness right now, at least until we start
poking people with sticks and seeing how they (and others) respond, maybe
the best thing to do for at least the first part of this Day is to pick
three or four possible lynch targets (or, hell, make everyone post a defense
of why they shouldn't be today's essentially random lynch), the better to
hit at least one scum in the crosshairs and thus draw out the rest of the,
um, scurvy bastards. (I'm still getting the hang of pirate-speak.)
Does that make sense, or is my tardiness rendering me incomprehensible?
Gad
Malacandra View profile
More options May 21, 6:06 am
From: Malacandra <Master.Malacan...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:06:57 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Just to confirm, the pirates and the "officers" (I'll make that the
approved term for Livesey, Smollett and Trelawney) do all know the
other members of their respective groups. However, I did instruct the
pirates that, while socialising on their board was OK as it has been
on this one, strategising before the end of Day One was right out; and
they have abided by this.
The officers have no channel of communications outside this board.
Blaster Master View profile
More options May 21, 6:35 am
From: Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:35:07 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:35 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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The obvious suggestion on how to begin is with random voting, or
nearly random voting. I do not suggest that everyone use random.org
and stick with it, I DO, however, suggest using random.org to pick a
target to prod and, when somewhat satisfied with his/her defense,
picking another one. After a bit has gone by (say, the day is half
over or more), I don't think that random.org is particularly useful
anymore. So, in sticking with my MO, I'll use random.org: Mad The
Swine!
Pirate defend thyself! ++Vote Mad The Swine++
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoÂokies View profile
More options May 21, 6:58 am
From: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies <dew...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:58:31 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:58 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I'm onboard (heh) with some initial random selections to get the
conversation started, but I'm going to stop short of casting a random
vote.
So, a random FOS on MHaye, says I. I shan't be trustin' nary a soul
on this ship, but I be trustin' yer foul breath and anything said with
it even less.
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 7:00 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:00:39 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:00 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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This is gonna be so hard to follow... :-)
Pleonast View profile
More options May 21, 7:16 am
From: Pleonast <Pleonastic...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:16:24 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:16 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 6:35 am, Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu> wrote:
10 demerits for not following proper voting procedure.
> Malacandra said:
> Please indicate your vote by putting it on a line by itself enclosed in plus marks, thus:
> ++Vote Somebody++
> Indicate that you are retracting your previous vote thus:
> --Unvote Somebody--
My random vote is
++Vote capybara++
Obviously the rodent is close enough to a rat.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:22 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:22:26 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:22 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Ok, what is an FOS?
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:32 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:32:48 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:32 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Aw, how could a simple farm lad who had to lie about his age to get on
board be scum? I'm just innocently swabbing decks and trying to suck
vitamin C from kelp!
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:40 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:40:50 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:40 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Oh, I think I lost a reply.
1) How could a poor wee farm lad who had to lie about his age to get
on board be scum? I'm just swabbing decks and trying to suck enough
vitamin C from kelp!
2) Is there any way to get new post at the top? To reverse the order
of appearance in the thread?
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 7:43 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:43:12 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:43 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Finger of Suspicion. Also known as the Finger of Shame, the Finger of
Scum, and (for this game, anyway) the Finger o' Scurvy Bastard!
Gad
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:50 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:50:44 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:50 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Idiot me. Ok, so there's a bit of a lag for new posts. You learn
something new every day.
And rodents can also be gerbils! And hamsters! And chinchillas!
Rodents are cute and fuzzy and innocent!
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 8:01 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:01:40 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I wrote several posts in M3 about why I think this type of random
voting is bad, so at this point I am not going to reiterate myself. I
think most people in this game read the first couple of days of M3 and
know how I feel about this.
I am strongly suspicious of Gad and BM, one for suggesting the idea
and the other for actually placing a random vote.
RANDOM VOTING WILL GET US NOWHERE. You want to see evidence? Fine,
look at M2 and M3.
We should be spending this time talking about strategy and ideas and
let the conversation create our votes. Right now the conversation is
leading me to:
FOS Gad and BM
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 8:08 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:08:50 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:08 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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NAF, I didn't suggest random voting. I simply said that all voting at
this point is going to be essentially random, so we should make our
line of fire as broad as possible on this Day in order to maximize our
chances of getting some scum in our crosshairs. (Mixed metaphors are
fun.) That's why I suggested requiring *everyone* to post a defense
of why they shouldn't be what amounts to a sacrificial Day One lamb.
That way we can maybe get some lead on actual suspicious behavior (as
delineated from just "town playing sloppily," which we saw a ton of in
M2 and M3) or at least lay the groundwork down the line to see who
defends who, however subtly, when push comes to shove.
I agree that random voting isn't likely to yield many useful nuggets,
and is overwhelmingly likely to result in the lynching of a
crewmember. I disagree with your characterization of my post. :-)
And I'm *still* harried at work, so more later!
Gad
panamajack View profile
More options May 21, 8:26 am
From: panamajack <pjack...@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:26:11 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:26 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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This is one thing I've noticed in the games I've observed so far:
The information at the start is not random. The pirates start with
way more knowledge - namely, they know who they have to kill. This
game's slightly different in that there may be a few on the 'crew'
list that are pro-pirate, but it doesn't change it a whole lot. The
pirates know more than we do. They probably need to find out who the
officers & Steele to help them, but right now they have a big
advantage.
They're going to thrive on either lack of knowledge or a profusion of
false knowledge, and we need to strike a balance. I see randomness
only as so much noise, but the bigger problem I see is that we can't
necessarily trust the pirates to be using random, which skews it
towards them.
If we really want randomness, why not pick two names, and say "X is
voting for Y"? I haven't thought that entirely through, but I think it
has a slightly better shot of being less skewed by pirates.
My vote/FOS will be withheld until later today.
Also, Malacandra, I assume since we're a bloodthirsty lot, like the US
Congress, there's no 'no confidence' vote?
Blaster Master View profile
More options May 21, 8:31 am
From: Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:31:10 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:31 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Bah... there's plenty to be learned from M2 and M3, but I don't think
that's it. The thing I learned about day one is that our probability
of getting scum on day one is quite low, even less than the ratio of
scum to us all. Thus, as I said before, I intend to pick people at
random and make them defend themselves. I'm not going to let another
person whom I don't trust select my targets for me because, for all I
know, he could be scum deliberately leaning my targets toward pro-crew
players.
Another thing I learned, your play on day one in M3 got you killed
because you were to ostentatiously pro-town. I'll be watching you
closely as well.
Regardless of how much FOS I may or may not get, my vote on
MadTheSwine will stand until he defends himself in a manner in which
I'm satisfied enough to go after another.
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 8:32 am From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:44 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:32 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 8:08 am, Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> NAF, I didn't suggest random voting. I simply said that all voting at
> this point is going to be essentially random, so we should make our
> line of fire as broad as possible on this Day in order to maximize our
> chances of getting some scum in our crosshairs.
Ok, I will admit that maybe my trigger finger was a little itchy on
this one. The randomness of day one is a bit of a pet topic of mine.
I really believe that if we don't resign ourselves to the idea that
day one is random...it doesn't have to be. If there is even the
smallest chance that we are making an informed rather than a random
decision, the town does better. The closer it is to random, the more
we are doing the scums work for them.
> That's why I suggested requiring *everyone* to post a defense
> of why they shouldn't be what amounts to a sacrificial Day One lamb.
> That way we can maybe get some lead on actual suspicious behavior (as
> delineated from just "town playing sloppily," which we saw a ton of in
> M2 and M3) or at least lay the groundwork down the line to see who
> defends who, however subtly, when push comes to shove.
But what are peopl going to defend themselves against if the voting is
random? Talking like this is a good thing. I think the things people
say in this discussion of strategy could very well lead to a scum
lynch...maybe today maybe a few days down the line. But the more we
talk like this the more chance there is for scum to slip up.
> I agree that random voting isn't likely to yield many useful nuggets,
> and is overwhelmingly likely to result in the lynching of a
> crewmember. I disagree with your characterization of my post. :-)
Sorry if I misrepresented your intentions. Like I said, I really
dislike playing to the idea of a random day 1.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 8:37 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:37:03 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:37 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Pleonast also cast a random vote early on.
But NAF1138 is protesting too much, too!
And Gadarene is so carefully trying to sound like a rational innocent
crew member with so much unsolicited advice, like a mole trying to
ingratiate himself early on into a leader role so that he can have his
way. . . and the calculated dropping of "the pirates haven't met,
isn't that right, Mal?" is just a little. . .
(sorry if my tone is too jolly, but I haven't been involved in the old
games and so I'm not squinty-eyed suspicious and ragingly emotionally-
damaged, yet.)
DiggitCamara View profile
More options May 21, 8:46 am
From: DiggitCamara <DigCam...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:46:13 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:46 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Actually, NAF, from M3 I have come to the idea that not only the first
day is basically a random vote, but that day two and maybe even day
three will STILL be random (for crew-type players). After that, some
patterns may emerge, and Captain Steele will have (if we're lucky)
enough information to start leaving breadcrumbs around.
And, to be honest, I STILL prefer the voting option to the non-voting
options available. Otherwise, how can the patterns we need start to
appear?
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 8:47 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:47:42 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think it's less "a mole trying to ingratiate himself early on into a
leader role," and more someone who's still getting used to the fact
that he's not leader (and on-high supreme arbiter!) of this game like
I am in the other one. :-)
Also, I've been bursting at the seams with observations about the
other game for a while now; damned if I'm not going to apply them (and
give everyone the dubious benefit of my knowledge) as quick as I damn
well can. Heh.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 8:54 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:54:29 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:54 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think PanamaJack has a good point-- it's not EXACTLY random. The
pirates are at an initial advantage. For the crew,yes, random, unless
we're very careful and vigilant in which case some clues may appear to
help.
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 9:01 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:01:45 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:01 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 8:46 am, DiggitCamara <DigCam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, NAF, from M3 I have come to the idea that not only the first
> day is basically a random vote, but that day two and maybe even day
> three will STILL be random (for crew-type players). After that, some
> patterns may emerge, and Captain Steele will have (if we're lucky)
> enough information to start leaving breadcrumbs around.
Here is the point that I think I may have articulated poorly. I am
not saying that the first day, maybe even the first two days, will be
incorrect (this is not the same as random). What I am saying is that
if we resign ourselves to thinking about them as random, we are
lost.
Go back and look at Fluiddruids lynch in the other game again. You
can follow the thread of suspicion that built up around her through
the discussions in the first few days. What I am suggesting is that
if we focus more on the discussion and less on the idea that today is
random we can unearth some real clues.
And again, random voting gets us nowhere.
FlyingCowOfDoom View profile
More options May 21, 9:05 am
From: FlyingCowOfDoom <chris.barra...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:05:47 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:05 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think it's pretty obvious that we should kill panamajack. Let's
break it down, shall we?
Panama: famous for the Panama Canal.
A canal: full of water.
Water: where pirates live.
Jack: the same name as Jack Sparrow.
Jack Sparrow: pirate!
QED.
++Vote panamajack++
--FCOD
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 9:06 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:06:21 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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> And, to be honest, I STILL prefer the voting option to the non-voting
> options available. Otherwise, how can the patterns we need start to
> appear?
Sorry, I didn't respond to this bit.
We should vote, but when we vote we should have real reasons for the
vote (even if they are a bit thin) and we should post those reasons.
The two things that will kill us are voting without analysis, and
speed lynching.
We have a really short day which doesn't help, but we still have at
least 24 hours to talk and start forming and posting opinions.
And if you have a good reason to vote for someone, you should vote.
But you can't defend against a random vote, so random votes don't
generate discussion and they provide a shield for the scum to hide
behind.
ArizonaTeach View profile
More options May 21, 9:06 am
From: ArizonaTeach <arizonate...@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:06:22 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Ok, so we have two opposing viewpoints from a previous and current
Dungeon Master. Seeing the meltdown in the early days of M2, I am
very, very, very leery of out of the blue votes, and I have to say I
just don't understand how people are expected to "defend" themselves
at this point other than saying, "I'm an innocent shipmate." I have
less discomfort about Gadarene's "cattle prod" FOS'ing, but Blaster
Master's "I'll vote for random people until they defend themselves to
me" attitude strikes me as extremely scummy.
Hope this works.
Malacandra View profile
The sun rises over the balmy mid-Atlantic to reveal a scene of bloody horror. The ship's owner, Squire Trelawney; her commander, Captain Smollett; and her ship's surgeon, Doctor Livesey, have all been foully murdered in the night. Or have they? Rumour spreads quicker than fire through a small ship - that all three officers were really imposters, and the real Squire, Captain and Doctor are hiding out anonymously among the crew. Also missing is the ship's cook, honest John Silver. The culprits must be found before the murderers strike again! This Day is beginning at 12 noon UK time (GMT+1). It will end 72 hours from now, on Thursday 24th May at 12 noon my time. Twelve votes for a single player will start a 6-hour countdown (as long as I see it).
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:06:36 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 5:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Cool. Anyone have suggestions on how to begin? I'm training a couple of
interns this morning, but I should be able to weigh in with some general
thoughts, observations, and cautions gleaned from the other games I've
witnessed (and am witnessing) later in the day.
The biggest thing to remember, I think, is that every damn thing is pretty
random at this point...I'm assuming the pirates haven't even had a chance to
confer (Mal, is this right?), although I'm sure they know who each other
are, as do the Squire/Captain/Doctor trio. So there's probably not going to
be any overt or sophisticated strategy in play just yet by the baddies or
the goodies. The most we can say, I think, is that if the pirates see one
of their own in danger of heading to the yardarm, they'll likely take steps
to subtly prevent that from happening. But since odds are against our
alighting on a pirate on our first hanging (plank-walking?) attempt anyway,
it probably won't be necessary for them to show themselves even to that
extent.
Which, hey, gives me an idea (damn it...I started this as a short note, and
now I'm late for the bus): since, statistically speaking, any random lynch
target is much more likely to be crew than pirate at this point (assuming
standard-ish distribution of roles, yadda yadda), and since we're pretty
much operating on nothing but randomness right now, at least until we start
poking people with sticks and seeing how they (and others) respond, maybe
the best thing to do for at least the first part of this Day is to pick
three or four possible lynch targets (or, hell, make everyone post a defense
of why they shouldn't be today's essentially random lynch), the better to
hit at least one scum in the crosshairs and thus draw out the rest of the,
um, scurvy bastards. (I'm still getting the hang of pirate-speak.)
Does that make sense, or is my tardiness rendering me incomprehensible?
Gad
Malacandra View profile
More options May 21, 6:06 am
From: Malacandra <Master.Malacan...@googlemail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:06:57 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Just to confirm, the pirates and the "officers" (I'll make that the
approved term for Livesey, Smollett and Trelawney) do all know the
other members of their respective groups. However, I did instruct the
pirates that, while socialising on their board was OK as it has been
on this one, strategising before the end of Day One was right out; and
they have abided by this.
The officers have no channel of communications outside this board.
Blaster Master View profile
More options May 21, 6:35 am
From: Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:35:07 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:35 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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The obvious suggestion on how to begin is with random voting, or
nearly random voting. I do not suggest that everyone use random.org
and stick with it, I DO, however, suggest using random.org to pick a
target to prod and, when somewhat satisfied with his/her defense,
picking another one. After a bit has gone by (say, the day is half
over or more), I don't think that random.org is particularly useful
anymore. So, in sticking with my MO, I'll use random.org: Mad The
Swine!
Pirate defend thyself! ++Vote Mad The Swine++
ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCoÂokies View profile
More options May 21, 6:58 am
From: ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies <dew...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 13:58:31 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 6:58 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I'm onboard (heh) with some initial random selections to get the
conversation started, but I'm going to stop short of casting a random
vote.
So, a random FOS on MHaye, says I. I shan't be trustin' nary a soul
on this ship, but I be trustin' yer foul breath and anything said with
it even less.
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 7:00 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:00:39 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:00 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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This is gonna be so hard to follow... :-)
Pleonast View profile
More options May 21, 7:16 am
From: Pleonast <Pleonastic...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:16:24 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:16 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 6:35 am, Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu> wrote:
10 demerits for not following proper voting procedure.
> Malacandra said:
> Please indicate your vote by putting it on a line by itself enclosed in plus marks, thus:
> ++Vote Somebody++
> Indicate that you are retracting your previous vote thus:
> --Unvote Somebody--
My random vote is
++Vote capybara++
Obviously the rodent is close enough to a rat.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:22 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:22:26 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:22 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Ok, what is an FOS?
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:32 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:32:48 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:32 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Aw, how could a simple farm lad who had to lie about his age to get on
board be scum? I'm just innocently swabbing decks and trying to suck
vitamin C from kelp!
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:40 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:40:50 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:40 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Oh, I think I lost a reply.
1) How could a poor wee farm lad who had to lie about his age to get
on board be scum? I'm just swabbing decks and trying to suck enough
vitamin C from kelp!
2) Is there any way to get new post at the top? To reverse the order
of appearance in the thread?
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 7:43 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 10:43:12 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:43 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Finger of Suspicion. Also known as the Finger of Shame, the Finger of
Scum, and (for this game, anyway) the Finger o' Scurvy Bastard!
Gad
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 7:50 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 07:50:44 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 7:50 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Idiot me. Ok, so there's a bit of a lag for new posts. You learn
something new every day.
And rodents can also be gerbils! And hamsters! And chinchillas!
Rodents are cute and fuzzy and innocent!
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 8:01 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:01:40 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:01 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I wrote several posts in M3 about why I think this type of random
voting is bad, so at this point I am not going to reiterate myself. I
think most people in this game read the first couple of days of M3 and
know how I feel about this.
I am strongly suspicious of Gad and BM, one for suggesting the idea
and the other for actually placing a random vote.
RANDOM VOTING WILL GET US NOWHERE. You want to see evidence? Fine,
look at M2 and M3.
We should be spending this time talking about strategy and ideas and
let the conversation create our votes. Right now the conversation is
leading me to:
FOS Gad and BM
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 8:08 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:08:50 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:08 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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NAF, I didn't suggest random voting. I simply said that all voting at
this point is going to be essentially random, so we should make our
line of fire as broad as possible on this Day in order to maximize our
chances of getting some scum in our crosshairs. (Mixed metaphors are
fun.) That's why I suggested requiring *everyone* to post a defense
of why they shouldn't be what amounts to a sacrificial Day One lamb.
That way we can maybe get some lead on actual suspicious behavior (as
delineated from just "town playing sloppily," which we saw a ton of in
M2 and M3) or at least lay the groundwork down the line to see who
defends who, however subtly, when push comes to shove.
I agree that random voting isn't likely to yield many useful nuggets,
and is overwhelmingly likely to result in the lynching of a
crewmember. I disagree with your characterization of my post. :-)
And I'm *still* harried at work, so more later!
Gad
panamajack View profile
More options May 21, 8:26 am
From: panamajack <pjack...@mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:26:11 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:26 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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This is one thing I've noticed in the games I've observed so far:
The information at the start is not random. The pirates start with
way more knowledge - namely, they know who they have to kill. This
game's slightly different in that there may be a few on the 'crew'
list that are pro-pirate, but it doesn't change it a whole lot. The
pirates know more than we do. They probably need to find out who the
officers & Steele to help them, but right now they have a big
advantage.
They're going to thrive on either lack of knowledge or a profusion of
false knowledge, and we need to strike a balance. I see randomness
only as so much noise, but the bigger problem I see is that we can't
necessarily trust the pirates to be using random, which skews it
towards them.
If we really want randomness, why not pick two names, and say "X is
voting for Y"? I haven't thought that entirely through, but I think it
has a slightly better shot of being less skewed by pirates.
My vote/FOS will be withheld until later today.
Also, Malacandra, I assume since we're a bloodthirsty lot, like the US
Congress, there's no 'no confidence' vote?
Blaster Master View profile
More options May 21, 8:31 am
From: Blaster Master <kdaff...@gmu.edu>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:31:10 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:31 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Bah... there's plenty to be learned from M2 and M3, but I don't think
that's it. The thing I learned about day one is that our probability
of getting scum on day one is quite low, even less than the ratio of
scum to us all. Thus, as I said before, I intend to pick people at
random and make them defend themselves. I'm not going to let another
person whom I don't trust select my targets for me because, for all I
know, he could be scum deliberately leaning my targets toward pro-crew
players.
Another thing I learned, your play on day one in M3 got you killed
because you were to ostentatiously pro-town. I'll be watching you
closely as well.
Regardless of how much FOS I may or may not get, my vote on
MadTheSwine will stand until he defends himself in a manner in which
I'm satisfied enough to go after another.
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 8:32 am From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:32:44 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:32 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 8:08 am, Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com> wrote:
> NAF, I didn't suggest random voting. I simply said that all voting at
> this point is going to be essentially random, so we should make our
> line of fire as broad as possible on this Day in order to maximize our
> chances of getting some scum in our crosshairs.
Ok, I will admit that maybe my trigger finger was a little itchy on
this one. The randomness of day one is a bit of a pet topic of mine.
I really believe that if we don't resign ourselves to the idea that
day one is random...it doesn't have to be. If there is even the
smallest chance that we are making an informed rather than a random
decision, the town does better. The closer it is to random, the more
we are doing the scums work for them.
> That's why I suggested requiring *everyone* to post a defense
> of why they shouldn't be what amounts to a sacrificial Day One lamb.
> That way we can maybe get some lead on actual suspicious behavior (as
> delineated from just "town playing sloppily," which we saw a ton of in
> M2 and M3) or at least lay the groundwork down the line to see who
> defends who, however subtly, when push comes to shove.
But what are peopl going to defend themselves against if the voting is
random? Talking like this is a good thing. I think the things people
say in this discussion of strategy could very well lead to a scum
lynch...maybe today maybe a few days down the line. But the more we
talk like this the more chance there is for scum to slip up.
> I agree that random voting isn't likely to yield many useful nuggets,
> and is overwhelmingly likely to result in the lynching of a
> crewmember. I disagree with your characterization of my post. :-)
Sorry if I misrepresented your intentions. Like I said, I really
dislike playing to the idea of a random day 1.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 8:37 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:37:03 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:37 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Pleonast also cast a random vote early on.
But NAF1138 is protesting too much, too!
And Gadarene is so carefully trying to sound like a rational innocent
crew member with so much unsolicited advice, like a mole trying to
ingratiate himself early on into a leader role so that he can have his
way. . . and the calculated dropping of "the pirates haven't met,
isn't that right, Mal?" is just a little. . .
(sorry if my tone is too jolly, but I haven't been involved in the old
games and so I'm not squinty-eyed suspicious and ragingly emotionally-
damaged, yet.)
DiggitCamara View profile
More options May 21, 8:46 am
From: DiggitCamara <DigCam...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 15:46:13 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:46 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Actually, NAF, from M3 I have come to the idea that not only the first
day is basically a random vote, but that day two and maybe even day
three will STILL be random (for crew-type players). After that, some
patterns may emerge, and Captain Steele will have (if we're lucky)
enough information to start leaving breadcrumbs around.
And, to be honest, I STILL prefer the voting option to the non-voting
options available. Otherwise, how can the patterns we need start to
appear?
Gadarene View profile
More options May 21, 8:47 am
From: Gadarene <gadar...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:47:42 -0400
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:47 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think it's less "a mole trying to ingratiate himself early on into a
leader role," and more someone who's still getting used to the fact
that he's not leader (and on-high supreme arbiter!) of this game like
I am in the other one. :-)
Also, I've been bursting at the seams with observations about the
other game for a while now; damned if I'm not going to apply them (and
give everyone the dubious benefit of my knowledge) as quick as I damn
well can. Heh.
Capybara View profile
More options May 21, 8:54 am
From: Capybara <mkirk...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 08:54:29 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 8:54 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think PanamaJack has a good point-- it's not EXACTLY random. The
pirates are at an initial advantage. For the crew,yes, random, unless
we're very careful and vigilant in which case some clues may appear to
help.
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 9:01 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:01:45 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:01 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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On May 21, 8:46 am, DiggitCamara <DigCam...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Actually, NAF, from M3 I have come to the idea that not only the first
> day is basically a random vote, but that day two and maybe even day
> three will STILL be random (for crew-type players). After that, some
> patterns may emerge, and Captain Steele will have (if we're lucky)
> enough information to start leaving breadcrumbs around.
Here is the point that I think I may have articulated poorly. I am
not saying that the first day, maybe even the first two days, will be
incorrect (this is not the same as random). What I am saying is that
if we resign ourselves to thinking about them as random, we are
lost.
Go back and look at Fluiddruids lynch in the other game again. You
can follow the thread of suspicion that built up around her through
the discussions in the first few days. What I am suggesting is that
if we focus more on the discussion and less on the idea that today is
random we can unearth some real clues.
And again, random voting gets us nowhere.
FlyingCowOfDoom View profile
More options May 21, 9:05 am
From: FlyingCowOfDoom <chris.barra...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:05:47 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:05 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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I think it's pretty obvious that we should kill panamajack. Let's
break it down, shall we?
Panama: famous for the Panama Canal.
A canal: full of water.
Water: where pirates live.
Jack: the same name as Jack Sparrow.
Jack Sparrow: pirate!
QED.
++Vote panamajack++
--FCOD
NAF1138 View profile
More options May 21, 9:06 am
From: NAF1138 <NAFrum...@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 16:06:21 -0000
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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> And, to be honest, I STILL prefer the voting option to the non-voting
> options available. Otherwise, how can the patterns we need start to
> appear?
Sorry, I didn't respond to this bit.
We should vote, but when we vote we should have real reasons for the
vote (even if they are a bit thin) and we should post those reasons.
The two things that will kill us are voting without analysis, and
speed lynching.
We have a really short day which doesn't help, but we still have at
least 24 hours to talk and start forming and posting opinions.
And if you have a good reason to vote for someone, you should vote.
But you can't defend against a random vote, so random votes don't
generate discussion and they provide a shield for the scum to hide
behind.
ArizonaTeach View profile
More options May 21, 9:06 am
From: ArizonaTeach <arizonate...@aol.com>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:06:22 -0700
Local: Mon, May 21 2007 9:06 am
Subject: Re: Day One
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Ok, so we have two opposing viewpoints from a previous and current
Dungeon Master. Seeing the meltdown in the early days of M2, I am
very, very, very leery of out of the blue votes, and I have to say I
just don't understand how people are expected to "defend" themselves
at this point other than saying, "I'm an innocent shipmate." I have
less discomfort about Gadarene's "cattle prod" FOS'ing, but Blaster
Master's "I'll vote for random people until they defend themselves to
me" attitude strikes me as extremely scummy.