Merestil Haye
FGM
Grudge Keeper
[on:Slumming it in the Middle-Earth][of:In the halls of Manw
Posts: 1,077
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Day One
May 23, 2007 17:59:00 GMT -5
Post by Merestil Haye on May 23, 2007 17:59:00 GMT -5
Given that Day ends at (iirc) midday BST on Friday, or just over 36 hors from now, I'll probably be voting late Thursday night with a review Friday morning. Don't hold your breath though... Something else about me. My proofreading skills are not the greatest at the moment - and I have a sticky keyboard. For "hors" read "hours".
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:16:10 GMT -5
Post by diggitcamara on May 23, 2007 18:16:10 GMT -5
If the most experienced townies get disembowelled first, doesn't it make sense that pro-town townies would spend as much time as possible early on sharing strategy with the Noobs, who are on the same team and may be the ones to survive to make use of that wisdom? Is there any good pro-town reason for experienced players to hold their theoretical/ methodological cards to their chests, at least in abstract terms? Sharing strategy is not a bad idea... or rather, it wouldn't have been a bad idea in the second Mafia game. Here, not so much. There are several players who have a lot of experience (this is my second game). The experienced players will already have many ideas about the game and will assume others have their own style of play. The bad part about sharing your strategy is that you are sharing it with everyone. And any strategy, once it's widely shared becomes a double-edged sword: scurvy dogs [size=21(heh)[/size] can and will adapt their strategies to yours.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:18:15 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 23, 2007 18:18:15 GMT -5
But if we want to avoid that kind of tardy surge, we need to start voting in earnest much sooner...and while I appreciate the kind of poke-'em-with-a-stick votes that NAF and Pleonast are currently engaged in, I don't think they're gonna get us much of anywhere. So I think we need a gameplan, and I think we need it pretty quickly. Any ideas? As much as I hate to pick on a noob,I think I will let me vote for auntbeast stand. First,as I said earlier,I voted for ab originally to see if she was lurking.Sure enough,she was,(as an unregistered guest) as she says here: I did post on the previous board, but for some reason my posts did not ever go through. I thought I'd spend some time perusing the messages when I realized I was FOS'd for not posting. Notice in the above quote, she also defends her lurking on the previous ship by saying her posts didn't go through.Well, rutabaga breath most,if not all,of us had trouble with that ship,but managed to get a few posts to show up.Lurking is a noob scum tell(I know,I did it myself in the original werewolf game and it almost cost me),and she admits to it.TWICE! So, Mad, FOS to you for thinking evil of a clueless newbie I'm so confused! It's ok, I'll catch up. It's kind of unfair to start out completely clueless and be a pirate townie. Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Please remember this and think of me. In the above three posts, she practices the deceptive art of self humiliation,another scum tell. Those two scum tells are both discussed at mafiascum.net Add those two tells with her revenge vote on me and I think we got us a winner.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:23:01 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 23, 2007 18:23:01 GMT -5
But if we want to avoid that kind of tardy surge, we need to start voting in earnest much sooner...and while I appreciate the kind of poke-'em-with-a-stick votes that NAF and Pleonast are currently engaged in, I don't think they're gonna get us much of anywhere. So I think we need a gameplan, and I think we need it pretty quickly. Any ideas? As much as I hate to pick on a noob,I think I will let me vote for auntbeast stand. First,as I said earlier,I voted for ab originally to see if she was lurking.Sure enough,she was,(as an unregistered guest) as she says here: Notice in the above quote, she also defends her lurking on the previous ship by saying her posts didn't go through.Well, rutabaga breath most,if not all,of us had trouble with that ship,but managed to get a few posts to show up.Lurking is a noob scum tell(I know,I did it myself in the original werewolf game and it almost cost me),and she admits to it.TWICE! Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Please remember this and think of me. In the above three posts, she practices the deceptive art of self humiliation,another scum tell. Those two scum tells are both discussed at mafiascum.net Add those two tells with her revenge vote on me and I think we got us a winner. You make a compelling argument MtS. FOS AuntBeast(I am not changing my vote until BM at least comes into the forum and has a chance to see that I voted for him...or until tomorrow morning, whichever comes first.)
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:29:37 GMT -5
Post by Caerie on May 23, 2007 18:29:37 GMT -5
If the most experienced townies get disembowelled first, doesn't it make sense that pro-town townies would spend as much time as possible early on sharing strategy with the Noobs, who are on the same team and may be the ones to survive to make use of that wisdom? Is there any good pro-town reason for experienced players to hold their theoretical/ methodological cards to their chests, at least in abstract terms? If a player is experienced or is someone with good experience running games--such as NAF and Gadarene, for instance--I'd expect some strategy coming from them, since even if they get taken out they still win if the crew wins. Both of them have been fairly active, which seems to fit that so I'm not particularly suspicious of them yet. They aren't telling everyone else how to play, though, and I wouldn't really expect an experienced player to do so for the reasons that diggitcamara mentions. Holding onto what they know or think until it needs to be used will work best, since then they can avoid warning the scum and giving them a chance to adapt. On the other hand, an experienced player who isn't adding much to the conversation except for filler--or is giving input that sounds bad/contradicts useful strategy in previous games--would be suspect in my eyes.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:31:35 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 23, 2007 18:31:35 GMT -5
I don't see this "If you were a pirate, who would you hit tonight" being a good question that would help solve anything. After all, the real pirates will be reading this and it'd be really easy to kill off someone that a good crew member mentions and have the suspicion fall on them the next day. Seems to me it has the potental to garner more (and possibly misplaced) suspicion.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:40:05 GMT -5
Post by Caerie on May 23, 2007 18:40:05 GMT -5
I don't see this "If you were a pirate, who would you hit tonight" being a good question that would help solve anything. After all, the real pirates will be reading this and it'd be really easy to kill off someone that a good crew member mentions and have the suspicion fall on them the next day. Seems to me it has the potental to garner more (and possibly misplaced) suspicion. I'd considered that as well, which is why I refrained from answering that one in any detail. It seems like the kind of question that's good for framing the crew, while the scum specifically answer with people that they have no intention of killing.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:45:10 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 23, 2007 18:45:10 GMT -5
I think the scum and crew are both smarter than that, but fair enough. I withdraw the question.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:49:23 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 23, 2007 18:49:23 GMT -5
I don't see this "If you were a pirate, who would you hit tonight" being a good question that would help solve anything. After all, the real pirates will be reading this and it'd be really easy to kill off someone that a good crew member mentions and have the suspicion fall on them the next day. Seems to me it has the potental to garner more (and possibly misplaced) suspicion. I agree. Which raises another FOS on the question asker.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:57:52 GMT -5
Post by Kyrie Eleison on May 23, 2007 18:57:52 GMT -5
Lakai, what was cowgirl looking for? She said your assumption was that she was looking for something. If it was what she thinks you are assuming then it was not what she wanted to do. The only reason she said all three points were valid was to show that anything to think of her statements is valid at this point. So you examined this well enough to be comfortable voting, and yet (a) didn't realize that cowgirl was addressing Idle Thoughts and not me, and (b) came to the conclusion that cowgirl wasn't asking for discussion, despite the fact that this post was a follow-up to: Also I have another question (although I think it's what got me targetted last time): can we discuss the power roles a little? I find that very odd.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:59:21 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 18:59:21 GMT -5
Oh, not cool, auntbeast, stealing my avatar from the Google Boards...not cool at all...!
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Day One
May 23, 2007 18:59:47 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 23, 2007 18:59:47 GMT -5
I agree. Which raises another FOS on the question asker. I thought so too, so I went back and read her posts...I am either reading flawless scum play, or a newbie who really doesn't know what the bad conversations to have are. She is on my scum list, insomuch as everyone is, but right now AuntBeast and Blaster Master are much higher. If only they would actually say something that might change.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:01:19 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on May 23, 2007 19:01:19 GMT -5
But if we want to avoid that kind of tardy surge, we need to start voting in earnest much sooner...and while I appreciate the kind of poke-'em-with-a-stick votes that NAF and Pleonast are currently engaged in, I don't think they're gonna get us much of anywhere. So I think we need a gameplan, and I think we need it pretty quickly. Any ideas? As much as I hate to pick on a noob,I think I will let me vote for auntbeast stand. First,as I said earlier,I voted for ab originally to see if she was lurking.Sure enough,she was,(as an unregistered guest) as she says here: Notice in the above quote, she also defends her lurking on the previous ship by saying her posts didn't go through.Well, rutabaga breath most,if not all,of us had trouble with that ship,but managed to get a few posts to show up.Lurking is a noob scum tell(I know,I did it myself in the original werewolf game and it almost cost me),and she admits to it.TWICE! Never ascribe to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. Please remember this and think of me. In the above three posts, she practices the deceptive art of self humiliation,another scum tell. Those two scum tells are both discussed at mafiascum.net Add those two tells with her revenge vote on me and I think we got us a winner. Self-depreciation as a difinitive scum tell? Even in combination with "lurking" I find it to be far from difinitive, imho. It also happens to be a method of breaking the ice and expressing a sense of humor that does not require that humor being at another's expense, i.e. it is a trait that can be found in a significant population of the Dope, and it is they type of personality trait that I think lots of folks might find it difficult to shed for the sake of a game. So this gets a FOS for both MadTheSwine and NAF for tagging his vote onto the same logic.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:04:28 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 19:04:28 GMT -5
I don't get why ArizonaTeach is suspicious of early votes - I'm taking my time myself but I don't see early votes as particularly piratish or crewish. His suspicion makes me wonder a bit - FOS on ArizonaTeach. I explained that a bit(although maybe it was on the other board, and it was mostly random early voting I hate - and on day one and two, that's all there can possibly be...) that I only see how early votes benefit the pirates. But, to repeat and expand, it causes a lot of white noise, which was a serious issue in M2, plus it is far too easy for pirates to vote and unvote each other, confusing later patterns. I said I was really suspicious of people who bandwagoned early on, and people who were too sure and confident early on. So there.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:05:06 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 23, 2007 19:05:06 GMT -5
So this gets a FOS for both MadTheSwine and NAF for tagging his vote onto the same logic. The part of the post that resonated with me was the fact that she intentionally lurked as an unregistered guest. She followed along but contributed nothing, still hasn't actually, but when called on it say's "awww shucks, I don't know WHAT I was doing, teehee." Sorry, but this is scummy. I am mad at myself that I didn't see that sooner.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:11:02 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 19:11:02 GMT -5
I don't see this "If you were a pirate, who would you hit tonight" being a good question that would help solve anything. After all, the real pirates will be reading this and it'd be really easy to kill off someone that a good crew member mentions and have the suspicion fall on them the next day. Seems to me it has the potental to garner more (and possibly misplaced) suspicion. Seriously. I'm getting nightmares about the "trust/no trust" lists. ...and that needs to be the last time I mention the old game. But truly, people asking people what they would do if they were pirates? Who, besides a pirate, would ask that?!?
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:22:13 GMT -5
Post by Mad The Swine on May 23, 2007 19:22:13 GMT -5
Self-depreciation as a difinitive scum tell? Even in combination with "lurking" I find it to be far from difinitive, imho. It also happens to be a method of breaking the ice and expressing a sense of humor that does not require that humor being at another's expense, i.e. it is a trait that can be found in a significant population of the Dope, and it is they type of personality trait that I think lots of folks might find it difficult to shed for the sake of a game. First, I never said definitive,if it was definitve she would be dead already. One little "look what a fool I am" would barely ping,but three? She didn't break the ice,she fell through it.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:47:53 GMT -5
Post by zuma on May 23, 2007 19:47:53 GMT -5
I'm here, I'm here.
Pleonast, how could you!
I've been trying to get caught up in game III back at the dope, but I'll be back later tonight.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 19:57:10 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 23, 2007 19:57:10 GMT -5
"I thought so too, so I went back and read her posts...I am either reading flawless scum play, or a newbie who really doesn't know what the bad conversations to have are."
Now, really. Isn't that bad conversation so *obviously and fantastically* bad that it's not bad anymore and comes back out into the spectrum of 'conversational'? I think the players are smart enough to deal with hypothetical strategy. I can't imagine a pirate that would be dumb enough to ask this question gormlessly, and I can't imagine the town thinking I'm that gormless, so either you're jumping on weak non-tells or you think I'm Wile E. Coyote, Super-Genius. Maybe I'm suffering from that fallacy of false consensus or assumed mean or whatever, but if you were thinking I was terribly clever scum pretending to be town pretending to be a moron pirate. . . even that wouldn't be nuanced enough to make sense. So either I'm a moron scum, a townie who thought we were smarter than we are and this wasn't as obvious as I thought, or I'm an elite quadrupel-guessing überscum. Hell, FOS on me.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:07:33 GMT -5
Post by NAF1138 on May 23, 2007 20:07:33 GMT -5
"I thought so too, so I went back and read her posts...I am either reading flawless scum play, or a newbie who really doesn't know what the bad conversations to have are." Now, really. Isn't that bad conversation so *obviously and fantastically* bad that it's not bad anymore and comes back out into the spectrum of 'conversational'? I think the players are smart enough to deal with hypothetical strategy. I can't imagine a pirate that would be dumb enough to ask this question gormlessly, and I can't imagine the town thinking I'm that gormless, so either you're jumping on weak non-tells or you think I'm Wile E. Coyote, Super-Genius. Maybe I'm suffering from that fallacy of false consensus or assumed mean or whatever, but if you were thinking I was terribly clever scum pretending to be town pretending to be a moron pirate. . . even that wouldn't be nuanced enough to make sense. So either I'm a moron scum, a townie who thought we were smarter than we are and this wasn't as obvious as I thought, or I'm an elite quadrupel-guessing überscum. Hell, FOS on me. Um...maybe I phrased my post badly, but I was trying to say you don't look like scum to me. But now I wish I hadn't, because that was a really scummy post. Do you always react with such a guilty conscience?
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:10:47 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 23, 2007 20:10:47 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm defending myself suspiciously, but to continue. . . Arizona, "But truly, people asking people what they would do if they were pirates? Who, besides a pirate, would ask that?!? " Are you serious? If I were a pirate wouldn't I, like, be finding out at Night, or already know? Is trying to understand how pirates think now a 'tell'? For one, whoever is in the doctor/blocker role or whatever would certainly want to think about who the pirates might snuff, no? It's just another direction to analyze everyone's comments from.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:13:48 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 23, 2007 20:13:48 GMT -5
No, it's not a guilty conscience, I'm just surprised that after being reassured that everything was so clever that I was being taken for a surface dope, whether pirate or townie. (sorry. . . now I read all of this and I think I'm more touchy about being seen as a dope than being seen as scum)
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Parzival
Mome Rath
Let's all strive to do our best today![on:forgot to log out][of:forgot to log in]
Posts: 201
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:31:43 GMT -5
Post by Parzival on May 23, 2007 20:31:43 GMT -5
Something DiggitCamara said made me realize that whatever happens today is, in all likelihood, bogus. What I mean is that the pirates are more than likely to change strategy quickly, to adapt to conditions of the game. Especially after they meet tonight - they're more likely to have a plan (even if, as it may, involve some scum playing differently). I see less of a reason for an honest crewmember to vary strategy wildly, however. This is why some discussion of strategy makes sense to me - though I understand that since we are not discussing in private, we can't reveal our entire plans.
Something I don't expect to see today is a pirate bandwagon on a crew member. Even a last-minute switch off a pirate seems unlikely. I'm willing to believe that an apparent bandwagon is mostly town - especially as people try to find any reason to vote, and not read too much into it if it happens.
At the end of the Day, someone's gotta die. And it's about time some serious votes started getting in, even if it amounts to picking from a wide group with only a little to go on.
Pleonast started out with a whole lot of noise, random votes that accomplished nothing. Since then I haven't seen much good aside from backing off of that.
+Vote Pleonast
Hope we get a vote count in a few hours (when Mal wakes up, probably).
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:32:56 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 23, 2007 20:32:56 GMT -5
ArizonaTeach: I found that image on a google search for pirate, I'll find another one, I promise, I'm more of the big dog type anyway. While all you kind folks are pointing your BLFOS on me, you are not pointing at a pirate. My time can be allotted for, and since I work nights, I wake up late. I really only lurked until I saw that evidently, my absence so far had been noted. I immediately registered and posted. I had also been trying to read some of the threads on the other games, since I am, as previously stated, completely clueless. I'm still wading through the wiki article on it. One point you had not considered in your rather deep evaluation of me, is that I'm a pretty mouthy broad. And chatty. And I type about 110 wpm, so rambling on is rather my style, in life, in game and everywhere else. Now go pick on a pirate! Hey Capy: you can be a dope with me, as long as you are of the straight kind.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:39:23 GMT -5
Post by capybara on May 23, 2007 20:39:23 GMT -5
I think I'm just now learning why some people lurk instead of posting, hah. While I dig this hole, apparently, all I have to defend my honor is a straight, overt, good faith, consistent record of playing and a perhaps misguided mission to get people talking out in the open. I have nothing to hide. And now I will stop bleating.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:44:30 GMT -5
Post by Idle Thoughts on May 23, 2007 20:44:30 GMT -5
Something DiggitCamara said made me realize that whatever happens today is, in all likelihood, bogus. What I mean is that the pirates are more than likely to change strategy quickly, to adapt to conditions of the game. Yeah, that's true. I honestly am suspicious of capybara now for all these questions put forth and the quick and aggresstive voting styles (like on ME for example). I see I'm not the only one....
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:46:09 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 20:46:09 GMT -5
Perhaps I'm defending myself suspiciously, but to continue. . . Arizona, "But truly, people asking people what they would do if they were pirates? Who, besides a pirate, would ask that?!? " Are you serious? If I were a pirate wouldn't I, like, be finding out at Night, or already know? Is trying to understand how pirates think now a 'tell'? For one, whoever is in the doctor/blocker role or whatever would certainly want to think about who the pirates might snuff, no? It's just another direction to analyze everyone's comments from. I was under the impression that the pirates were told not to discuss strategy until Night. Are you saying you have some other knowledge? First-hand knowledge? My belief is that someone inexperienced, who has not talked about strategy with other pirates might very well ask the wrong questions on the Day board. I was trying to refrain from refering to M2 again, but since the situation has already been brought up, that's what killed the detective -- innocently asking the wrong questions. You also note I'm not the only person to think your question was inappropriate...
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:48:30 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 20:48:30 GMT -5
ArizonaTeach: I found that image on a google search for pirate, I'll find another one, I promise, I'm more of the big dog type anyway. Heh, no, I was just kidding. I was gonna use it again here, but I honestly didn't want to play with the (minor) hassle it takes to upload avatars here. I had done a search for "pirate dogs" myself - which I can't remember why I thought it was a good idea at the time...
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:49:41 GMT -5
Post by ArizonaTeach on May 23, 2007 20:49:41 GMT -5
I honestly am suspicious of capybara now for all these questions put forth and the quick and aggresstive voting styles (like on ME for example). I see I'm not the only one.... You are not.
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Day One
May 23, 2007 20:53:46 GMT -5
Post by auntbeast on May 23, 2007 20:53:46 GMT -5
I just checked when I registered, 11:03 am for the confirmation email. I woke up about 10:30. I got the private message about the new board being made at 3:45pm, I left for work at about 5:30pm. I figured I'd check the new board out in the morning, I wake up, and evidently, was fingered as a pirate for a. working nights b. sleeping in c. trying to figure out what is going on d. being a dork.
I do find it interesting that experienced players are so quick to jump on a newbie townie who doesn't have the sense god gave little green apples as far as deflecting suspicion, keeping alive or even figuring out who I think I should be suspicious of.
That being said, I'll be looking at MadTheSwine all that more intently. Even if my original vote for him was revenge/fun based. I won't go so far to label him "scum" but he's definitely got some algae growth.
Love, Rutabaga Breathe
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