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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 2:15:31 GMT -5
And I got from the previous posts that there's some sort of clever "bastard mod" twist to the game which changes it up on a fundamental level? But it doesn't involve the host lying? Does anyone have any idea what that might involve via their game PM? Mine doesn't offer any clues. Mine gives me the nasty horrible suspicion that we can't rely on investigative roles. I hope this is countered by some nice town power roles, or weak mafia roles. I claim the Town Miller role (yay me....). This roles gives me the amazing ability to investigate as scum. I am claiming early to avoid the detective (if we have one) wasting an investigation on me on the first night. Also this role is useless to claim if I am up for the noose. Considering this is a gastard game, I would fully expect there to be a godfather or similar role. It is all the more important for us to decide on behaviour rather than rely on investigations. Though I would hope there is only one mafia counterpart to me (or for that matter no more millers) so investigation should help, just don't consider it to be the final word.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 25, 2009 4:34:41 GMT -5
Mine gives me the nasty horrible suspicion that we can't rely on investigative roles. I hope this is countered by some nice town power roles, or weak mafia roles. I claim the Town Miller role (yay me....). This roles gives me the amazing ability to investigate as scum. I am claiming early to avoid the detective (if we have one) wasting an investigation on me on the first night. Also this role is useless to claim if I am up for the noose. Considering this is a gastard game, I would fully expect there to be a godfather or similar role. It is all the more important for us to decide on behaviour rather than rely on investigations. Though I would hope there is only one mafia counterpart to me (or for that matter no more millers) so investigation should help, just don't consider it to be the final word. This is indeed a Gastrad-game. I'm a Town Miller as well and my claim makes little sense comming like this after your claim. I just hope we arn't all Millers This IS a quick game. I'm going to Vote: Total Lost [/color] because she's been posting less and less in games and I want to encourage her to participate.[/quote] Though I agree with you about me not saying as much as I usually do - you right. But you really think I should be lynched based on the way I've played in other games?? Surprise - but I disagree with you there. I can see the vote on Texcat as being a vote for an anti-town move. But again - it talking about a "No lynch" or even wanting it something I think Scum would do? No, not really. What I kind of think might be a good vote is to lynch one of the claiming Millers. That way we will at least have some indication that the role is in the game (and really is Town). It would not prove anything about the other Miller(s) - but it might be information Town can use later in the game.
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 4:36:09 GMT -5
Vote: No lynch for now. Maybe we should try not lynching a townie on the first day. Town has numbers, scum has information. The town needs information - a no-lynch yields no information for the town and gives the scum essentially a free kill as it will still most likely yield a mis-lynch on Day 2 rather than Day 1 Admittedly, I am curious as to by Hoopy felt the need to clarify the no-lynch mechanic. There are no 3rd parties, so no Jester, and no anti-Jester that would win by no-lynch, so I'm going to assume is just a gastardly mod trying to confuse us. But it's tempting to give Ed my vote for finding what must be one of the most boring wikipedia entries ever. Don't tempt him - he can do a lot worse! But it doesn't involve the host lying? Things can be warped in a gastard game, but there is some semblance of reason, and the mod generally doesn't lie. To quote Hoopy: Also, I should probably mention that this setup is a bit gastard, which is why I've made a 9 person game closed. However, the gastardness only comes in to play in how the powers interact with each other. There are definitely scum; there are definitely town; and there are definitely no third parties. And everything I announce in the game thread and scum thread will be truth. There also are no vote manipulation powers, so if something doesn't add up with the votes, that's mod error and should be brought to my attention. Does anyone have any idea what that might involve via their game PM? Mine doesn't offer any clues. I'd normally read a comment like that as someone trying to role fish. Mine gives me the nasty horrible suspicion that we can't rely on investigative roles. I hope this is countered by some nice town power roles, or weak mafia roles. I claim the Town Miller role (yay me....). This roles gives me the amazing ability to investigate as scum. I am claiming early to avoid the detective (if we have one) wasting an investigation on me on the first night. Also this role is useless to claim if I am up for the noose. Considering this is a gastard game, I would fully expect there to be a godfather or similar role. It is all the more important for us to decide on behaviour rather than rely on investigations. Though I would hope there is only one mafia counterpart to me (or for that matter no more millers) so investigation should help, just don't consider it to be the final word. Interesting post - you indicate that you believe you can't trust any investigative roles, you then make an unprovoked Day1 claim of a role that will always investigate as scum (yet you just said you think you can't trust investigative results), then speculate about their being a godfather - who would always investigate as town (but again, you've already cast doubt on the validity of any investigative results). And your reason for claiming is to avoid someone wasting an investigation on you? but you say you have reason to believe to doubt the results of an investigation. That's a mighty big glass of wifom to digest.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 25, 2009 4:42:03 GMT -5
Interesting post - you indicate that you believe you can't trust any investigative roles, you then make an unprovoked Day1 claim of a role that will always investigate as scum (yet you just said you think you can't trust investigative results), then speculate about their being a godfather - who would always investigate as town (but again, you've already cast doubt on the validity of any investigative results). And your reason for claiming is to avoid someone wasting an investigation on you? but you say you have reason to believe to doubt the results of an investigation. That's a mighty big glass of wifom to digest. We must have posted almost at the same time - because you clearly didn't see my post above yours
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 5:04:59 GMT -5
@BillMC
You are quite right in the reading of my post. Considering my role, I do think investigations are not to be treated as the final word, even from a confirmed detective.
As this was my first game I made sure to read plenty of strategy and what not, along with a heap of SMDB games. I feel I am a reasonable understanding of how the game works, and a Town Miller in a game like this rings alarm bells. Most games I have read has the town feeling like they are in a strong position once they have a confirmed detective. After I got my role and thought about the implications to me (i.e I am toast) I thought further about what sort of bastard thing you could do with this role (as a bastard mod). A bit of research and I find a godfather role.
A healthy touch of paranoia and you have my post above.
If Total Lost is telling the truth (sorry, but I read a game where you were scum, and I was seriously impressed by your ability) then my fears are founded. Even without a godfather role then everyone(most?) appears as scum, actually in this case once we had determined the rules then the godfather is a give away. I suppose then we just reverse the investigations?
Though, Bill, you are obviously not a Town Miller. Maybe my theory needs work.
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Post by sirsam972 on Aug 25, 2009 5:13:23 GMT -5
Unvote special ed
Vote MiteyMouse
Voting a non-poster.
1. texcat posted 2. FCOD 3. sirsam972 posted, claimed miller 4. BillMC posted 5. MiteyMouse 6. hockeyguy8435 7. Special Ed posted 8. gryff posted, claimed miller 9. Total Lost posted, claimed miller
I'm a town miller as well, so I think we've got our first clue there! (or maybe the whole thing) With half the posters claiming miller that's a good chunk.
I thought town miller was just a normal part of forum mafia, admittedly I'm not as familiar with it. As an entirely unrelated and unimportant note, personally I'm not a fan of fake cops and godfathers/millers and junk. I understand it's a way to reduce the power of an inherently overpowered role, but there are other ways (or just not use the role at all). I also personally (this is of course debatable) think that this falls under the category of a host lying to the players; if someone is a scum and you tell a cop they are a citizen, that's a lie imo. Regardless if it's according to some sort of prescribed rule set.
I also would almost never vote no lynch ever, especially not on day one. I guess sometimes there are crazy interactions of night roles but other than that my bloodlust knows no bounds!
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 5:13:38 GMT -5
Interesting post - you indicate that you believe you can't trust any investigative roles, you then make an unprovoked Day1 claim of a role that will always investigate as scum (yet you just said you think you can't trust investigative results), then speculate about their being a godfather - who would always investigate as town (but again, you've already cast doubt on the validity of any investigative results). You know, rereading this, I find this paragraph strange. You profess confusion at my stance on investigation in this game and at the same time express confusion one me doing an "unprovoked" claim to back up my reasoning. I didn't, and still don't, think my logic is hard to follow. It may not be correct but I think it fits the available facts. Texcat was a weak vote. Unvote: texcat I am changing it to; Vote: BILLMC Bills other point is probably valid, as much as I hate to say it. A Town Miller can only be confirmed by lynching. Possibly lynching myself or Total Lost would help the town. Personally I would prefer you test on her if you decided to go this route.
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 5:18:33 GMT -5
Ok, three town millers, it appears my theory may hold water yet!
We must have a detective or cop in town otherwise the town miller role is just flavour. He/she must try to determine if it is a simple reversal (all scum godfathers or similar) or if the ability is useless.
In light of that it is probably not worth any more millers coming out of the shadows, as it will show the scum who is a town power role. I think..?
I have to admit I am finding it difficult to think of ways to use this information.
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 5:22:08 GMT -5
Doh, Earlier I mentioned the lynching of a town miller as BillMC's idea. After rereading (again) I see it is Total Lost's idea. Apologies
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Post by special on Aug 25, 2009 6:38:24 GMT -5
Vote: texcat [/color]
With no lynch, we give up our kill. We gain no information. We allow the Scum to start the game with a kill instead of Town.
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Post by special on Aug 25, 2009 6:38:54 GMT -5
oops
Unvote: Total Lost Vote: texcat
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 25, 2009 6:51:46 GMT -5
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
Mitey Mouse (1): sirsam972 BillMC (1): gryff texcat(1): Special Ed No Lynch (1): texcat
Currently Not Voting: FCOD, BillMC, MiteyMouse, hockeyguy8435, Total Lost
As of now, Mitey Mouse will be lynched at Dusk.
One more thing about voting I forgot to mention (no this isn't me being gastard, this is me being forgetful): Although the first person to get maximum number of votes gets lynched in case of a tie, if someone else in the tie got there because of unvoting, they will be lynched. In other words, say BillMC got an extra vote and then an unvote, even though MiteyMouse got voted to 1 first, since BillMC was actually ahead of MiteyMouse for a while, he would be the lynch candidate. So the priority of lynch goes:
1) Most votes if no tie 2) If tie, votee involved in tie who was the last person who held a higher vote count that day. 3) If tie, and no one has exceeded tie count that day, votee who reached tie count first. 4) No Lynch if and only if it has the most votes at Day end
Clear as mud, no?
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Post by special on Aug 25, 2009 6:58:25 GMT -5
Unvote: texcat [bote] Bill [/b][/color]
because he's not a Miller.
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Post by special on Aug 25, 2009 6:58:57 GMT -5
Vote: Bill because spelling is important.
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Post by Høøpy Frøød on Aug 25, 2009 7:10:22 GMT -5
Updated vote count:
Current Votes:
BillMC (2): gryff, Special Ed Mitey Mouse (1): sirsam972 No Lynch (1): texcat
Currently Not Voting: FCOD, BillMC, MiteyMouse, hockeyguy8435, Total Lost
As of now, BillMC will be lynched at Dusk.
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 8:25:06 GMT -5
[/color] [bote] Bill [/b][/color] because he's not a Miller.[/quote] And neither are you I suspect since you didn't claim it. As for me....Town Cop.
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 8:26:16 GMT -5
We must have posted almost at the same time - because you clearly didn't see my post above yours Aye - don't get preview on the blackberry
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 8:30:06 GMT -5
Well given the number of millers - i'm going to hazard a guess that there is at least one more cop, and everyone else is a miller - so its cops and millers.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Aug 25, 2009 10:36:30 GMT -5
Sorry for my absence. I had been working on passing a kidney stone and have been in quite a bit of pain...my brain doesn't function well under those conditions.
Now, this is pretty interesting. I too am a Miller. So, an investigator might be all but useless if we are all Millers.
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Post by MiteyMouse on Aug 25, 2009 10:38:07 GMT -5
oops...I was reading as posting...sorry for coming out.
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 10:43:12 GMT -5
Well given the number of millers - i'm going to hazard a guess that there is at least one more cop, and everyone else is a miller - so its cops and millers. Why two cops? I don't think I have ever seen two cops in one game, cept for one of those games with lots of major power roles. If anything I would expect a doc or similar. Are you pre-empting a counter claim? You still seem off to me, the standard wisdom is to let you off and look for more low hanging fruit for a day 1 lynch. However your first post was an attack with dodgy logic, followed by a role claim with a built in clause for a counter claim. As a cop is less useful than normal I feel safe in letting my vote ride for a bit
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 10:46:32 GMT -5
Now, this is pretty interesting. I too am a Miller. So, an investigator might be all but useless if we are all Millers. Well, I have hope that it is merely reversed and all the scum are godfathers or something. Otherwise things are heavily weighted towards the scum. The only thing that concerns me now is that any scum has had time to see what is on the horizon and start claiming miller.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 25, 2009 12:21:47 GMT -5
Hm, that's odd. I'm also a town cop. Bill, what are the 10th and 11th words of the second line of your PM?
Vote: BillMc until I can confirm we received the same PM.
--FCOD
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 12:32:26 GMT -5
Hm, that's odd. I'm also a town cop. Bill, what are the 10th and 11th words of the second line of your PM? Vote: BillMc until I can confirm we received the same PM. --FCOD I'm on the crackberry, so the lines are wrapped. I'll assume by the second line you mean the one starting "Power" (coz technically speaking it looks like the second line is a blank on my bb) - so taking "Power" as the first word, "Upon dawn," is 10 and 11
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 25, 2009 12:51:37 GMT -5
Ok. Unvote: BillMc .
Looks like we have two Town Cops. Not sure what to make of that.
I will Vote: texcat for suggesting we have vote for a no lynch, which is a terribly anti-town action.
--FCOD
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 25, 2009 12:52:45 GMT -5
Also, BillMc: why don't you ask me a couple of words that you think are unique to your PM so you can also verify that I have the same PM as you.
--FCOD
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Post by BillMc on Aug 25, 2009 12:52:50 GMT -5
Why two cops? I don't think I have ever seen two cops in one game, cept for one of those games with lots of major power roles. If anything I would expect a doc or similar. Are you pre-empting a counter claim? Multiple investigative roles are not unheard off; hence my original viewpoint on your claim: Mine gives me the nasty horrible suspicion that we can't rely on investigative roles. I hope this is countered by some nice town power roles, or weak mafia roles. Underline/bolding mine - ROLES plural - you seemed to expect multiple investigative roles - yet you later cast suspicion on me when I suggest multiple cops. I claim the Town Miller role (yay me....). This roles gives me the amazing ability to investigate as scum. I am claiming early to avoid the detective (if we have one) wasting an investigation on me on the first night. Also this role is useless to claim if I am up for the noose. Considering this is a gastard game, I would fully expect there to be a godfather or similar role. It is all the more important for us to decide on behaviour rather than rely on investigations. Though I would hope there is only one mafia counterpart to me ( or for that matter no more millers) so investigation should help, just don't consider it to be the final word. Prior to Total's claim, the underlined part is plausible - I've played 25+ games and only one has had a Miller in it, so the thought of multiple Millers in a game would be an edge case. But given we seem have quite a few, re-reading it does seem like you were expecting there to be multiple millers. However your first post was an attack with dodgy logic, followed by a role claim with a built in clause for a counter claim. As a cop is less useful than normal I feel safe in letting my vote ride for a bit It is your logic that is questionable - you have already said you dont think multiple Cops are a reality -- yet I see FCOD has now also claimed Cop -- but you have decided that Cop's are useless. While a Cop would not be able to confirm whether you are actually a town miller or scum, Cops would be able to confirm each other. So for that reason: Vote: gryff
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Post by texcat on Aug 25, 2009 13:09:29 GMT -5
Unvote: No lynch
I too am a miller and will return as scum.
So we have gryff, total lost, sirsam, miteymouse, and me all claiming miller. And it seems likely that we might have a scum in this group. FCOD and BillMc are claiming cop.
That only leaves Ed and hockeyguy.
Vote: hockeyguy for lack of posts and claims.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Aug 25, 2009 13:10:56 GMT -5
So am I to understand that we have two town cops, but all of the players are millers? I suppose that would qualify as Gastard, lol.
--FCOD
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Post by gryff on Aug 25, 2009 13:29:24 GMT -5
[/color]. Looks like we have two Town Cops. Not sure what to make of that. I will Vote: texcat [/color] for suggesting we have vote for a no lynch, which is a terribly anti-town action. --FCOD[/quote] That's odd, It would be a bold move for scum to get together on a handshake like this so I had best take this as it appears. Unvote: BillMC I agree with Texcat on it is likely a scum jumped on the miller bandwagon once it started, but I hate to arbitrarily choose the 3rd or 4th at this stage. Will ponder further.
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