Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 12, 2010 8:52:37 GMT -5
I have a bunch of ideas that span multiple games I want to Mod down the line.
[For starters, I wouldn't be in the game. For another thing, wouldn't you want to know how my brain works? - Take it on as a challenge, or at the very least, a triple dog dare.]
So, I have a few Ideas I want some preliminary feedback on :
A Voteless townie. I have seen this in the flash tutorial, but I wonder how popular it is, and how popular it is among our group.
For the game I am working on, the voteless townie has a chance of being able to vote later in the game from a certain point going forward.
A Half-Mason. This person would be able to Read, but not post to a masonry. He will be able to know all of the masons, by name, and know that they are Town. The full masons, however, will only know that a Town Half Mason is among them.
For the game I am working on, I will probably cut and paste masonry contents in a PM to the Half Mason.
There is a separate game that is looking to have twice as many players as the above game. This game will have powers that I believe can work, but again, want feedback.
Has there ever been a role that can sacrifice itself as a night action, to influence actions of others? [This would be very similar to the mechanic template in Magic The Gathering.]
Has there been a role that receives the NK if he himself is NK'd or if another player he is connected to would normally get the Nk?
This is how I want to work it :
---
You are Y. You are a ___________ for X.
If X were to be Night-Killed, you will be Night-Killed instead. If you are Night-Killed before X, this power will be removed.
---
You are X, a Vanilla Townie.
---
I would like to start off some power roles with a limited number of times to use their ability.
I would like also to be able to possibly increment that number as the result of a Night action by someone else, OR that they ""find"" missing items.
Has this been done?
--
Also, Have there been games that have had some of the "standard" roles, but not some of the other "standard" roles?
Also, in games with an established Color and Cannon, has there ever been a "Named" role with out powers?
I believe these games will be good, with the other parts I have in mind with them. Balancing is hard enough, we don't need someone to be a kid in the candy store over creation.
Thanks in advance.
|
|
|
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 12, 2010 9:19:50 GMT -5
In the House game, House himself appeared to be a Voteless Townie, but he had a behind the scenes vote.
In the Heroes game, I was Bodyguard to another character - I did not know who the player was (at least at first), but if that person had been NKed by a targeted attack, I would have died in his stead.
Both games are over on Giraffe.
|
|
|
Post by special on Feb 12, 2010 14:30:00 GMT -5
IA Half-Mason. This person would be able to Read, but not post to a masonry. He will be able to know all of the masons, by name, and know that they are Town. The full masons, however, will only know that a Town Half Mason is among them. in my first Disney game, I yhad a 4 person masonry. 3 of them had accesss to the Mason thread, but one didn't, because he was a dog (Pluto) and therefore not allowed into the temple
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Feb 12, 2010 15:08:36 GMT -5
A Voteless townie. I have seen this in the flash tutorial, but I wonder how popular it is, and how popular it is among our group.
I played one of these once and it is as boring as hell. Don't use it.
A Half-Mason. This person would be able to Read, but not post to a masonry. He will be able to know all of the masons, by name, and know that they are Town. The full masons, however, will only know that a Town Half Mason is among them.
Interesting. Definitely a worthwhile role. Note that Masons don't have to gave a secret board.
Has there ever been a role that can sacrifice itself as a night action, to influence actions of others?
In the original Conspiracy, one of the Witches had the ability to protect another player at the cost of her own life. In general, the problem with self-sacrifice (assuming you mean the death and not a lesser form of sacrifice) is balance. A power that costs the users life must be very useful or it's unlikely to be used. But very powerful ability can put a lot of "swing" into the game. That makes it much harder to balance.
Has there been a role that receives the NK if he himself is NK'd or if another player he is connected to would normally get the Nk? This is how I want to work it : --- You are Y. You are a ___________ for X. If X were to be Night-Killed, you will be Night-Killed instead. If you are Night-Killed before X, this power will be removed. --- You are X, a Vanilla Townie.
That sounds like a Half-Lover power. I'm not sure it would be fun to play.
I would like to start off some power roles with a limited number of times to use their ability. I would like also to be able to possibly increment that number as the result of a Night action by someone else, OR that they ""find"" missing items. Has this been done?
I had a "charges" mechanism in my Munchkin mini game. Limited-number-use powers are very useful in terms of game balancing, since it's easier to estimate how often they will be used.
Also, Have there been games that have had some of the "standard" roles, but not some of the other "standard" roles?
Yes. What roles are included is simply a matter of balance and fun.
Also, in games with an established Color and Cannon, has there ever been a "Named" role with out powers?
(Nitpick: it's "canon".) Probably. But I think most games of that sort will give at least a minor power to every role.
I believe these games will be good, with the other parts I have in mind with them. Balancing is hard enough, we don't need someone to be a kid in the candy store over creation.
From my point of view, the important thing is making the game fun, with balanced usually need for it to be fun. Don't worry about whether or not you're meeting players' expectations. Experienced players will trust the designer/moderator to be fair. (But please don't misuse that trust, unless you warn them in advance.)
|
|
|
Post by Red Skeezix on Feb 12, 2010 18:17:43 GMT -5
As far as a cool self-sacriface roles go, Heroes had one where the player (FCoD, I believe), could self-sacrifice to block a lynch. The player would recieve the role and alignment info before the lynch to make a decision. If he decided to block the lynch, the lynchee would have their role and alignment mod-confirmed.
How it played out in the game was a little breaking though. The town bomb was up for lynch, and the last player to place a vote on them was a un-night-killable town. So when FCoD, sacrificed himself to save them both, the game ended up with a Mod-Confirmed town bomb and a Mod-Confirmed town unkillable. Which was great for the town, add in the next day the mason's claimed which made for pretty much 5 confirmed town + 5 scum players + 6 others.
|
|
Trepa Mayfield
FGM
Does Not Follow Directions
The only kind of panda worth preserving.
Posts: 989
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Feb 12, 2010 19:25:53 GMT -5
I would like also to be able to possibly increment that number as the result of a Night action by someone else, OR that they ""find"" missing items. Has this been done? -- Interesting that you ask this, because I've been toying with an uber-complicated role that is pretty much that. It's proved...rather difficult to balance, naturally, but I may end up getting all the kinks worked out for it. We'll see, if I ever end up finishing the overall design.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 13, 2010 10:35:49 GMT -5
Interesting that you ask this, because I've been toying with an uber-complicated role that is pretty much that. It's proved...rather difficult to balance, naturally, but I may end up getting all the kinks worked out for it. We'll see, if I ever end up finishing the overall design. Another version I was thinking about, was to have one power role have his entire night choice being that he can [essentially] give any player a <whatever> and that <whatever> turns into an additional "item" specific to that role. That is, if he had a macguffin, he can give the macguffin to random player X. If Random player X is Vig, the macguffin becomes a bullet. If random player X is a doctor it becomes uh...... a popsicle stick. No no. But I think you get what I mean to say here. I will probably end up ditching that idea, and use the same role in a different way. Either way, I need to finish watching the series, to get the canon down.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 13, 2010 10:45:39 GMT -5
A Voteless townie. I have seen this in the flash tutorial, but I wonder how popular it is, and how popular it is among our group.I played one of these once and it is as boring as hell. Don't use it. The problem is, it fits the role perfectly. Any consideration on the fact that the voteless will have a chance to become a full voting townie? ------ Somewhat related [If not the oposite side of the coin] quesiton : What are the 5 most common town power roles?
|
|
|
Post by peekercpa on Feb 13, 2010 12:31:53 GMT -5
A Voteless townie. I have seen this in the flash tutorial, but I wonder how popular it is, and how popular it is among our group.I played one of these once and it is as boring as hell. Don't use it. The problem is, it fits the role perfectly. Any consideration on the fact that the voteless will have a chance to become a full voting townie? ------ Somewhat related [If not the oposite side of the coin] quesiton : What are the 5 most common town power roles? oooh oooh mr kotter pick me. dick doc vig rb hmmm, hmmm. fuck, crapped out again in sight of the finish line.
|
|
|
Post by tomscud on Feb 13, 2010 13:10:57 GMT -5
Also, in games with an established Color and Canon, has there ever been a "Named" role with out powers? You might recall Lost Mafia.
|
|
|
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 13, 2010 14:24:03 GMT -5
Also, in House I had several "named" characters who were strictly vanilla.
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Feb 13, 2010 15:27:23 GMT -5
A Voteless townie. I have seen this in the flash tutorial, but I wonder how popular it is, and how popular it is among our group.I played one of these once and it is as boring as hell. Don't use it. The problem is, it fits the role perfectly. Any consideration on the fact that the voteless will have a chance to become a full voting townie? A non-voting role suffers from the problem that they have nothing to do. They're basically an observer inside the game. Maybe some players would get enough motivation from trying to earn their vote, but don't be surprised if many players would basically lurk with it. Another problem is the player with the non-voting role will have to explain to other players why they can't vote. And if they vote and it's not counted, you've basically mod-confirmed them. Which means they'll be waiting around to be Night-killed, because they won't be lynched and they have no vote to explain. Boring.
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 13, 2010 17:13:32 GMT -5
Another version I was thinking about, was to have one power role have his entire night choice being that he can [essentially] give any player a <whatever> and that <whatever> turns into an additional "item" specific to that role. That is, if he had a macguffin, he can give the macguffin to random player X. If Random player X is Vig, the macguffin becomes a bullet. If random player X is a doctor it becomes uh...... a popsicle stick. . Check out Super Smash Brothers. Donkey Kong, Jr. (played by Parzival, IIRC) was a "sidekick". He was a third party role that had to assist X number of unique players. His assistance boosted their powers for that night. Also, in Skrull Planet, Rysto, misterblockey, and I were masons playing the last of the Rasputin line (i.e. The X-Men Colossus and Magik, and their brother Mikhail). Rysto, who played Colossus would die in either of his siblings place should any of the Masons be attacked.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 13, 2010 19:57:44 GMT -5
Also, in games with an established Color and Canon, has there ever been a "Named" role with out powers? You might recall Lost Mafia. I probably repressed that. Good Call.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 13, 2010 20:07:52 GMT -5
I've got the Doc, I've got the Dick. Not sure that I could have a Vig role. Scum have no power, don't see a rb needed. Then again, currently, the game only has 3 scum. Certainly there is a curve where say 3 or 5 scum is more powerful than just 4 ?
|
|
|
Post by special on Feb 14, 2010 18:18:03 GMT -5
Certainly there is a curve where say 3 or 5 scum is more powerful than just 4 ? It's a pretty simple curve. Given no powers, 4 Scum are more powerful than 3, and 5 are more powerful than 4.
|
|
|
Post by Sister Coyote on Feb 15, 2010 11:57:30 GMT -5
I think one way to make a voteless townie playable is to give them a secondary "power".
|
|
Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
Posts: 740
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Natlaw on Feb 15, 2010 15:18:35 GMT -5
How about a Politician who really must buy his vote? Perhaps with actual stuff like an inventor, so he can trade an item for someone's vote. Probably not to o exciting stuff or it will be hard to balance I think.
Or perhaps a Yes-Man, who can make someone other player's vote count double but not pick someone to vote for himself?
The fifth most common town role is a Mason (before role blocker I think).
|
|
|
Post by Høøpy Frøød on Feb 15, 2010 20:46:47 GMT -5
The fifth most common town role is a Mason (before role blocker I think). I would put mason before both vig and roleblocker. It's rare you find a game with a vig but no masons. It's even rarer you find a game with an RB but no masons or vig.
|
|
Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Meeko on Feb 16, 2010 11:12:59 GMT -5
How about a Politician who really must buy his vote? Perhaps with actual stuff like an inventor, so he can trade an item for someone's vote. Probably not to o exciting stuff or it will be hard to balance I think. Or perhaps a Yes-Man, who can make someone other player's vote count double but not pick someone to vote for himself? I figure I need to determine what can work in the game, before I can even consider balance. For my game, the voteless will gain the abillity to vote, from the night the Politician in the game talks to him.* From that point, the Politician becomes a regular politican for the rest of the night. * I will ask the politician to give me X names of players, on night 0. I will proxy this list, one per night, to determine if the voteless will get votes or not. In this way, I think I circumvent the obvious :: Hey, I'm voteless!! Ok, stay up tonight, I'm coming over! How does Yes-man work? Is it possible to be the Yes-man to two different people at once? How does this not out the Yes-man?
|
|
Natlaw
Snark
Natlaw is a Modron short and stout.
Posts: 740
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Natlaw on Feb 18, 2010 15:15:28 GMT -5
However you want it to work . You could just give the restriction that he can't vote for someone first and must unvote if he is the last one. You could have him not vote and pm, but that would get noticed more quickly. Both are a bit bastardly though by taking away choice from a player.
|
|
|
Post by shaggy on Feb 22, 2010 17:47:11 GMT -5
Hey, I do want to put my 2 cents in here....
For voteless townies, one way you could play would be the tree stump role....basiaclly they are normal VT however anytime in the game they can choose to claim tree stump at which point they become a voteless townie, who also can not be killed...then that way as long as they are not taken out first, they can be still part of the game. The draw back to this is, then you are essentially telling the scum atleast one player who they have no choice but to make it to end game with, which boarders gasterd, a little. Probably why I have never actually seen tree stump being used.
I have seen lists of possible roles that contain lots and lots of roles never used. Though in most cases, it is cause I think both from a balance stand point and a playable stand point, they would be really hard to use.
|
|
|
Post by Chronos on Apr 21, 2010 23:16:04 GMT -5
Personally, I would never put a role in a game that's strictly worse than vanilla, since it's no fun for the person who draws that role. If I were ever to put in something like a Miller or a Voteless, I'd make sure to give that person some other power as well.
As for the half-mason, if there's a mason discussion area and the half-mason can read it, it's pretty much as good as a full mason. The full masons could just say something like "Hey, half-mason, use the word "lollipop" in your next post in the main thread", and thus be able to determine who the half-mason is. Half-mason knows who masons are, and masons know who half-mason is: Full masonry.
|
|
|
Post by HardlySanguine on Jul 8, 2010 16:30:13 GMT -5
I think a voteless townie could be fun if they didn't know themselves that they were voteless.
Like, their name would be on all the vote tallies but it wouldn't count towards anything.
If everyone knew there was a voteless among them, bandwagons would probably be larger. Which could be good or bad.
I think a half-mason would work better if they could write but not read on the masonry. It'd certainly be more frustrating for the other masons. ;D
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Jul 8, 2010 19:09:40 GMT -5
I think a voteless townie could be fun if they didn't know themselves that they were voteless. Like, their name would be on all the vote tallies but it wouldn't count towards anything. If everyone knew there was a voteless among them, bandwagons would probably be larger. Which could be good or bad. THAT is an interesting idea.
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jul 11, 2010 18:05:24 GMT -5
I think a voteless townie could be fun if they didn't know themselves that they were voteless. Like, their name would be on all the vote tallies but it wouldn't count towards anything. If everyone knew there was a voteless among them, bandwagons would probably be larger. Which could be good or bad. THAT is an interesting idea. That is something I could base a whole game around. IE having every role have something about it that they're not told, and maybe a role investigator that can just find out the secret part. The voteless townie would still need something extra, even when ignorant of the voteless part
|
|
|
Post by HardlySanguine on Jul 11, 2010 20:09:32 GMT -5
If anyone wants someone to bounce around ideas with (not in the open), let me know. Your thought has made me think of a couple other roles (though, they've probably been done before): - Ballot-box stuffer: Extra vote [unknowingly, or if known, getting two separate votes] (perhaps only while voteless townie is alive) - Night ballot-box stuffer: I guess this'd be a townie redirecting the scum's NK (perhaps only after a scum or two has been lynched. Dunno how desirable speeding up the end game would be) - Scum day-power to negate a vote - Voting requirements, a) perhaps forcing everyone to have a vote in by the end of the day, or b)voting for who they think is *least* scummy as well as most scummy where the winner of the least scummy vote gains either NK or lynch prevention for a day or two. Hmm. Possibilities, possibilities...
|
|
|
Post by Pleonast on Jul 12, 2010 11:30:39 GMT -5
When you include vote-affecting powers of any sort, don't forget that voting is one of the critical powers of the Town. Not only does the Town lynch via voting, they can also infer player alignments from the vote record. Vote powers can make it harder for the Town to do either or both.
Please balance the game accordingly.
|
|
|
Post by Pollux Oil on Jul 13, 2010 22:00:44 GMT -5
That is something I could base a whole game around. IE having every role have something about it that they're not told, and maybe a role investigator that can just find out the secret part. The voteless townie would still need something extra, even when ignorant of the voteless part You want help designing that game?
|
|
|
Post by Mister Blockey on Jul 13, 2010 23:57:15 GMT -5
That is something I could base a whole game around. IE having every role have something about it that they're not told, and maybe a role investigator that can just find out the secret part. The voteless townie would still need something extra, even when ignorant of the voteless part You want help designing that game? If it's a mini, hell yeah. I already have three good ideas if I get a main though. If you get the main and want to do this I'd still go for it.
|
|