Post by mtgman on Sept 6, 2007 13:24:04 GMT -5
So in case anyone hasn't seen it, check out NAF's rules post. I'll be going down the list and pointing out what I see as some potential rule implications and strategic behaviors of this particular ruleset. I'm going to play both sides of the fence here, both pro- and anti-town, discussing strategies and loopholes which lean in favor of both factions(assuming, of course, there are only two factions, which may be a poor assumption). NOTA BENE for this thread. Please pay strict attention to #4. No questions about the rules in this thread. This thread is dedicated to the last statement in the quoted section, about finding the loopholes.
#1-4, no significant strategic value that I can see. Just be very careful about your questions, this is very different from the SDMB based games(although the trend has been towards this setup).
#5, Here's your first place to trip people up and metagame. If you suspect someone is a role with secret information, odds are they've PMed NAF or Kat about it(one facet of closed games is everyone is desperate for info, even the normally informed minority). A seemingly innocuous question like "how do you know?" or "how does that work?" could get them to reveal info they otherwise could have kept close to their chests. Similarly, be on guard for people trying to draw info out of you, especially if you're not a vanilla role.
#6, may trip up new players, but probably not.
#7 may be a key rule. Remember in a closed game, that everyone's actions are suspect, even seemingly innocuous ones like vote counts. Why did that player want a vote count at that moment? Why did they want a mods attention, and more importantly, why right then? Odds are it was becuase some aspect of their character, either a strategic choice which may be available to them, or just some new facet just occurred to them and they're gathering the info they need to exercise it properly. This is a key point to be aware of if you're a power role because it gives you away. Let's not forget Hal's "Yo Oracle, over here!" comment from M5 which probably gave him away.
#8 is going to be tough, and very subtle to use to your advantage. Insinuating that someone is lurking too much can be a damaging accusation. Similarly you want to make sure you can't be accused of the same thing. Unfortunately the level of traffic in the game is something you can't control and lurking is judgement which is, by definition, relative. Even if you're posting every day, you could be considered a lurker if everyone else is posting twenty times a day. Posting once a Day, on the other hand, is probably fine if everyone else is only posting single-digit numbers per Day. It's a tricky thing to metagame to the point where you prod mods to examine someone's behavior, and rife with potential to backfire, but a "hey, anyone seen XXXX recently? I'm wanting to get some bunk time and want to make sure I don't get walked in on" can be a way to get the mods to notice them and call them on the carpet. Now that I've said this I fully expect a rule clarification to the effect of "prodding mods for strategic meta-game reasons is disallowed, violators will be mod-killed" ;D
#9, please, please, plese! If you're going to haunt the thread, do it while you're drunk off your ass. Nothing is more annoying than boring ghosts.
#10, there's a lot to this, but basically it means there are multiple factions on Day 1, so be on the lookout. Usually there's just two informed minorities(Masons and Scum). In this game the investigative roles(presuming there are any) will form at least a third(or fourth, or fifth, etc.) minority. Keep a close eye on anyone behaving in a manner inconsistent with publically available information. Similarly, if you're one of the informed minorities, for Og's sake, don't act on your information, especially not this early in the game!
#11, this is really just double exclamation points on #10. Don't give yourself away on Day 1, and be extra vigilant in case someone slips and gives themselves away on Day 1. It's going to be hard to post for ten real-time days without letting private information color the posts. Be wary of doing this if you have private info, and be on the lookout for it if you don't.
#12 and 13, these are the scum super-rules. This is where they can game the rules. They can vote for each other early in the day, and then one of them can have a change of heart right under the wire and bam, no lynch. Roleclaims can be used to throw off lynches too by getting people to back off at the last minute. A scum unvote of a scum about to swing does two things, it saves the nearly hung scum for at least a night, and it pulls the teeth of the town because the scum can still kill and pull ahead. The town should not waste lynches like this, it plays into the hands of the scum. The only thing the scum do is increase the suspicion of whoever unvoted, which may or may not be a significant penalty, depending on how the game is going. The same tactic works in reverse. For the cost of increasing the suspicion on one scum, you can swing the vote to lynch a townie by dropping the hammer.
Be extra dubious of last-minute roleclaims. Be suspicious of last minute voters/unvoters. Unless some new piece of information(such as a roleclaim) just came to light, odds are they voted/unvoted based on hidden information.
Vote counts are going to be critical here. I'd suggest making your own spreadsheet to track the votes. Don't trust someone else's "unofficial vote count" because they might have "missed someone" so when your vote comes down you're the hammer and suspicion of guilt in the case of the newly dead townie comes on you. Similarly, feel free to "miss someone" in your "unofficial vote count" if you think it's worth drawing some suspicion for leading a "fellow townie" astray. Beware of people throwing votes fast and furious, they could be establishing a track record of "just being an aggressive player" so they can be the hammer in later Days without as much suspicion.
#14 is, like #11, just a reminder that 12 and 13 are uber rules and you better watch your step when jacking around with them. You may be able to get people in trouble by bringing the hammer when someone has promised a "long analysis post in a few minutes" but it probably won't be worth it.
Enjoy,
Steven
Originally posted by NAF1138
1) We are going back to the traditional no strategy at Night. You can talk at Night, but no strategy may be discussed.
2) All votes must be posted in blue or they won’t count. If you can placing votes and unvotes at the bottom of a post separated from the rest of the text helps, but this is not mandatory.
3) You only get one vote. If you change your mind about who you want to vote for you must unvote in red or the change won’t count.
4) You may only ask questions about the mechanics of the game in PM form. Please PM both Kat and myself. One of us will answer and if it seems appropriate we will post to the thread.
5) You MAY NOT quote any PM’s from Kat or myself in the game thread
6) You may not edit your posts. We all know this one by now, so there won’t be any second chances. We will get creative with the punishment for this one because I don’t think mod killing is always fair. But don’t push it.
7) If you need to call Kat or myself our in the thread for some reason (a vote count request etc.) Please post the request in green and bold and slightly larger than normal text size so we can find it fast when scanning the thread.
8) No intentional lurking. If we see lurking is becoming a strategy we will force sub the player out. This will be done at the mods discretion.
9) Once you are dead, you are dead. You get a goodbye post, and you can haunt the thread at Night, but don’t get involved in game play.
Ok here is where things get interesting. Read these carefully
10) We will be having a night head start. All the non killing power roles will be able to use their power tonight. No one will die, but the town will have some info at daybreak.
11) Day One is going to be long. Really long. I am thinking 10 days long. The rest of the Days will be shorter, but still longer then we are used to at least to start. This is becuase we have a closed setup and the town needs a bit more time to figure things out in a closed set up. You will be told when the day ends in each Days dawn post.
12) The Day will end instantly once majority vote has been reached. I will be around and Kat will be around to watch the vote counts, but it is up to you guys to make sure you don’t hammer anyone accidentally. We will try to give you at least 2 vote updates every 24 hours, but no promises. You will be told the magic majority number in each Days dawn post.
13) If majority has not been reached by the deadline…there will be no lynch. This one is important so read it twice.
14) Dusk happens either at the deadline or when majority has been reached, it does not matter if Kat or I are around to post it. Treat it as though Night has started. No more strategy, no more role claims, no more votes.
Anything not listed in the above rules is fair game. Feel free to find loopholes in the rules and bend them to your own ends.
1) We are going back to the traditional no strategy at Night. You can talk at Night, but no strategy may be discussed.
2) All votes must be posted in blue or they won’t count. If you can placing votes and unvotes at the bottom of a post separated from the rest of the text helps, but this is not mandatory.
3) You only get one vote. If you change your mind about who you want to vote for you must unvote in red or the change won’t count.
4) You may only ask questions about the mechanics of the game in PM form. Please PM both Kat and myself. One of us will answer and if it seems appropriate we will post to the thread.
5) You MAY NOT quote any PM’s from Kat or myself in the game thread
6) You may not edit your posts. We all know this one by now, so there won’t be any second chances. We will get creative with the punishment for this one because I don’t think mod killing is always fair. But don’t push it.
7) If you need to call Kat or myself our in the thread for some reason (a vote count request etc.) Please post the request in green and bold and slightly larger than normal text size so we can find it fast when scanning the thread.
8) No intentional lurking. If we see lurking is becoming a strategy we will force sub the player out. This will be done at the mods discretion.
9) Once you are dead, you are dead. You get a goodbye post, and you can haunt the thread at Night, but don’t get involved in game play.
Ok here is where things get interesting. Read these carefully
10) We will be having a night head start. All the non killing power roles will be able to use their power tonight. No one will die, but the town will have some info at daybreak.
11) Day One is going to be long. Really long. I am thinking 10 days long. The rest of the Days will be shorter, but still longer then we are used to at least to start. This is becuase we have a closed setup and the town needs a bit more time to figure things out in a closed set up. You will be told when the day ends in each Days dawn post.
12) The Day will end instantly once majority vote has been reached. I will be around and Kat will be around to watch the vote counts, but it is up to you guys to make sure you don’t hammer anyone accidentally. We will try to give you at least 2 vote updates every 24 hours, but no promises. You will be told the magic majority number in each Days dawn post.
13) If majority has not been reached by the deadline…there will be no lynch. This one is important so read it twice.
14) Dusk happens either at the deadline or when majority has been reached, it does not matter if Kat or I are around to post it. Treat it as though Night has started. No more strategy, no more role claims, no more votes.
Anything not listed in the above rules is fair game. Feel free to find loopholes in the rules and bend them to your own ends.
#1-4, no significant strategic value that I can see. Just be very careful about your questions, this is very different from the SDMB based games(although the trend has been towards this setup).
#5, Here's your first place to trip people up and metagame. If you suspect someone is a role with secret information, odds are they've PMed NAF or Kat about it(one facet of closed games is everyone is desperate for info, even the normally informed minority). A seemingly innocuous question like "how do you know?" or "how does that work?" could get them to reveal info they otherwise could have kept close to their chests. Similarly, be on guard for people trying to draw info out of you, especially if you're not a vanilla role.
#6, may trip up new players, but probably not.
#7 may be a key rule. Remember in a closed game, that everyone's actions are suspect, even seemingly innocuous ones like vote counts. Why did that player want a vote count at that moment? Why did they want a mods attention, and more importantly, why right then? Odds are it was becuase some aspect of their character, either a strategic choice which may be available to them, or just some new facet just occurred to them and they're gathering the info they need to exercise it properly. This is a key point to be aware of if you're a power role because it gives you away. Let's not forget Hal's "Yo Oracle, over here!" comment from M5 which probably gave him away.
#8 is going to be tough, and very subtle to use to your advantage. Insinuating that someone is lurking too much can be a damaging accusation. Similarly you want to make sure you can't be accused of the same thing. Unfortunately the level of traffic in the game is something you can't control and lurking is judgement which is, by definition, relative. Even if you're posting every day, you could be considered a lurker if everyone else is posting twenty times a day. Posting once a Day, on the other hand, is probably fine if everyone else is only posting single-digit numbers per Day. It's a tricky thing to metagame to the point where you prod mods to examine someone's behavior, and rife with potential to backfire, but a "hey, anyone seen XXXX recently? I'm wanting to get some bunk time and want to make sure I don't get walked in on" can be a way to get the mods to notice them and call them on the carpet. Now that I've said this I fully expect a rule clarification to the effect of "prodding mods for strategic meta-game reasons is disallowed, violators will be mod-killed" ;D
#9, please, please, plese! If you're going to haunt the thread, do it while you're drunk off your ass. Nothing is more annoying than boring ghosts.
#10, there's a lot to this, but basically it means there are multiple factions on Day 1, so be on the lookout. Usually there's just two informed minorities(Masons and Scum). In this game the investigative roles(presuming there are any) will form at least a third(or fourth, or fifth, etc.) minority. Keep a close eye on anyone behaving in a manner inconsistent with publically available information. Similarly, if you're one of the informed minorities, for Og's sake, don't act on your information, especially not this early in the game!
#11, this is really just double exclamation points on #10. Don't give yourself away on Day 1, and be extra vigilant in case someone slips and gives themselves away on Day 1. It's going to be hard to post for ten real-time days without letting private information color the posts. Be wary of doing this if you have private info, and be on the lookout for it if you don't.
#12 and 13, these are the scum super-rules. This is where they can game the rules. They can vote for each other early in the day, and then one of them can have a change of heart right under the wire and bam, no lynch. Roleclaims can be used to throw off lynches too by getting people to back off at the last minute. A scum unvote of a scum about to swing does two things, it saves the nearly hung scum for at least a night, and it pulls the teeth of the town because the scum can still kill and pull ahead. The town should not waste lynches like this, it plays into the hands of the scum. The only thing the scum do is increase the suspicion of whoever unvoted, which may or may not be a significant penalty, depending on how the game is going. The same tactic works in reverse. For the cost of increasing the suspicion on one scum, you can swing the vote to lynch a townie by dropping the hammer.
Be extra dubious of last-minute roleclaims. Be suspicious of last minute voters/unvoters. Unless some new piece of information(such as a roleclaim) just came to light, odds are they voted/unvoted based on hidden information.
Vote counts are going to be critical here. I'd suggest making your own spreadsheet to track the votes. Don't trust someone else's "unofficial vote count" because they might have "missed someone" so when your vote comes down you're the hammer and suspicion of guilt in the case of the newly dead townie comes on you. Similarly, feel free to "miss someone" in your "unofficial vote count" if you think it's worth drawing some suspicion for leading a "fellow townie" astray. Beware of people throwing votes fast and furious, they could be establishing a track record of "just being an aggressive player" so they can be the hammer in later Days without as much suspicion.
#14 is, like #11, just a reminder that 12 and 13 are uber rules and you better watch your step when jacking around with them. You may be able to get people in trouble by bringing the hammer when someone has promised a "long analysis post in a few minutes" but it probably won't be worth it.
Enjoy,
Steven