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Post by BillMc on Jul 16, 2010 8:33:59 GMT -5
If Mhaye was telling the truth, we move into the same position we are in now, tomorrow: 1. Should MHaye be telling the truth, we should have an investigation result on either billmc OR NAF, I'd leave it up to him to decide the target for the sake of wifom, or a dead cop or dead doc or no deaths. 2a (MHaye is alive). we lynch either BillMc or NAF depending on what MHaye has to say about it. Interesting that you think NAF or I *MUST* be lying - and that your proposed course of action focusses entirely on NAF and I for the next Night/Day letting everyone else have a free ride
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jul 16, 2010 8:53:52 GMT -5
If Mhaye was telling the truth, we move into the same position we are in now, tomorrow: 1. Should MHaye be telling the truth, we should have an investigation result on either billmc OR NAF, I'd leave it up to him to decide the target for the sake of wifom, or a dead cop or dead doc or no deaths. 2a (MHaye is alive). we lynch either BillMc or NAF depending on what MHaye has to say about it. Interesting that you think NAF or I *MUST* be lying - and that your proposed course of action focusses entirely on NAF and I for the next Night/Day letting everyone else have a free rideWell, I've seen nothing to indicate that this game would have two doctors. So I assume that one of you is lying. It's not a far leap if you think about it. So yeah, I'm focusing my gaze where it's most likely to lead to a scum lynch. Why is that interesting to you, BillMc?
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 16, 2010 9:23:52 GMT -5
I guess a "mad bomber" is kinda consistent with "soul stainer" and the fact that folk are changing color -- so I guess Total, Pollux and I have been tagged/stained - maybe all the soul stainers are mad bombers? I still don't get it. If we're supposed to have 3 stealers - then why did you and I start of being white and then turn green/red. But Pollux came later and started red (not white). The fact that boozy was blue would indicate some color-scheme... And why on earth did we change color?
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 16, 2010 9:29:17 GMT -5
Well, I've seen nothing to indicate that this game would have two doctors. So I assume that one of you is lying. It's not a far leap if you think about it. So yeah, I'm focusing my gaze where it's most likely to lead to a scum lynch. Why is that interesting to you, BillMc? I think we should leave NAF/Bill for a Day or so while we figure out what exactly they have claimed. Based on the number of players in the game, I'd say we have more than one scum left in the game. So it would be throwing a Day away if we only dealt with them toMorrow. I've seen to many games where scum took advantage of the player X >< player Y... only to have it turn out they were both town.
Better to let it rest and see if we can get other discussions going as well (IMO)
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 16, 2010 9:35:57 GMT -5
If Mhaye was telling the truth, we move into the same position we are in now, tomorrow: 1. Should MHaye be telling the truth, we should have an investigation result on either billmc OR NAF, I'd leave it up to him to decide the target for the sake of wifom, or a dead cop or dead doc or no deaths. 2a (MHaye is alive). we lynch either BillMc or NAF depending on what MHaye has to say about it. Wait a minute!! I just thought of something:
Didn't you see the theory about Archangle being the one to kill MentalGuy? How can you be so sure we'll have a death toNight? We didn't last Night...
And I just had another crazy idea. If Boozy WAS mad bomber, maybe there isn't "scum" in this game. Maybe the stealers take a soul and leave the player with "their" color. So when they have marked all players they win? So we might have a stealer marking people with white, another with red and the last with green... If we lynch them first they can't mark any more and if we don't then we lose the game. If this is the case then we should consider lynching the souls stolen... me, BillMc and Pollux
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jul 16, 2010 10:44:58 GMT -5
Well, I've seen nothing to indicate that this game would have two doctors. So I assume that one of you is lying. It's not a far leap if you think about it. So yeah, I'm focusing my gaze where it's most likely to lead to a scum lynch. Why is that interesting to you, BillMc? I think we should leave NAF/Bill for a Day or so while we figure out what exactly they have claimed. Based on the number of players in the game, I'd say we have more than one scum left in the game. So it would be throwing a Day away if we only dealt with them toMorrow. I've seen to many games where scum took advantage of the player X >< player Y... only to have it turn out they were both town.
Better to let it rest and see if we can get other discussions going as well (IMO)Sorry, but how many times have you seen a player counterclaim an identical power role, where both players were town? I have never seen it, I'm not stating that it is impossible, but in a game that started out with 12 people, I argue that it is a dubious proposition. I feel it's more likely, and less speculative, that after boozy slipped, he and NAF cooked up a scheme whereby NAF could manufacture some credit for boozy, since he had not been counterclaimed before. Note, he came in and said he protected boozy, it's not much of a stretch to think that scum might have decided not to kill as to create cover for boozy while simultaneously pushing the mass role claim agenda. NAF has been pushing hard for it, despite the fact that if his claim is to be believed he's a doctor out in the open.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jul 16, 2010 11:01:14 GMT -5
If Mhaye was telling the truth, we move into the same position we are in now, tomorrow: 1. Should MHaye be telling the truth, we should have an investigation result on either billmc OR NAF, I'd leave it up to him to decide the target for the sake of wifom, or a dead cop or dead doc or no deaths. 2a (MHaye is alive). we lynch either BillMc or NAF depending on what MHaye has to say about it. Wait a minute!! I just thought of something:
Didn't you see the theory about Archangle being the one to kill MentalGuy? How can you be so sure we'll have a death toNight? We didn't last Night...
As one murder is not a killing spree, one night with no death is not enough for me to consider it a trend.
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Post by BillMc on Jul 16, 2010 12:47:12 GMT -5
Sorry, but how many times have you seen a player counterclaim an identical power role, where both players were town? I have never seen it, I'm not stating that it is impossible, but in a game that started out with 12 people, I argue that it is a dubious proposition. I feel it's more likely, and less speculative, that after boozy slipped, he and NAF cooked up a scheme whereby NAF could manufacture some credit for boozy, since he had not been counterclaimed before. Note, he came in and said he protected boozy, it's not much of a stretch to think that scum might have decided not to kill as to create cover for boozy while simultaneously pushing the mass role claim agenda. NAF has been pushing hard for it, despite the fact that if his claim is to be believed he's a doctor out in the open. Interesting theory - but NAF and I are not claiming identical roles. NAF also claimed before Boozy's slip, and I pulled Boozy up on his slip.
My initial distrust of NAF was from his claim of "Doctor" it didn't fit with the roles of the dead. However, MHaye has proven his claim of "Detective" true, so I'm willing to accept NAF's claim of Doctor. It would be a stupid claim to make if not true.
You've also given no reason as to why you are against a mass claim - your previous comments are lynch then decide on a claim when we will most probably be at lylo
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 16, 2010 13:22:29 GMT -5
Interesting that you think NAF or I *MUST* be lying - and that your proposed course of action focusses entirely on NAF and I for the next Night/Day letting everyone else have a free ride Well, I've seen nothing to indicate that this game would have two doctors. So I assume that one of you is lying. It's not a far leap if you think about it. So yeah, I'm focusing my gaze where it's most likely to lead to a scum lynch. Why is that interesting to you, BillMc? I actually believe Bill now. Here's why. MHaye is more or less golden in my eyes. 1) he outed scum 2) his very generic style of role matches mine. Here is why you should believe me. MHaye's generic role stlye matched mine and came out a long time after my claim. Here's why you should believe Bill, he protected MHaye and there wasn't a kill. I protected Boozy, who was scum. The most logical explanation is there is a second doc who is not me. Now I know, you have to sort of take on faith that I am a doctor for the case for Bill being a Doctor to work out, but knowing what we know now, I think this makes more sense than other theories.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jul 16, 2010 13:50:38 GMT -5
<font style="font-size: 12px;"> <font style="font-size: 12px;">
Interesting that you think NAF or I *MUST* be lying - and that your proposed course of action focusses entirely on NAF and I for the next Night/Day letting everyone else have a free ride
Well, I've seen nothing to indicate that this game would have two doctors. So I assume that one of you is lying. It's not a far leap if you think about it. So yeah, I'm focusing my gaze where it's most likely to lead to a scum lynch. Why is that interesting to you, BillMc?I actually believe Bill now. Here's why. MHaye is more or less golden in my eyes. 1) he outed scum 2) his very generic style of role matches mine. Here is why you should believe me. MHaye's generic role stlye matched mine and came out a long time after my claim. Here's why you should believe Bill, he protected MHaye and there wasn't a kill. I protected Boozy, who was scum. The most logical explanation is there is a second doc who is not me. Now I know, you have to sort of take on faith that I am a doctor for the case for Bill being a Doctor to work out, but knowing what we know now, I think this makes more sense than other theories. NAF, the generic role name that you have claimed is more of a null than anything. I agree that it does not indict you but simultaneously it does not acquit you. The reasons to believe billmc are greater at this point than the reasons to believe you. The reasoning to believe both of you flies in the face of the fact that so far there is nothing to indicate this game actually has two doctors, and that this is not a manipulation attempt to shift focus away from yourself. Although, after reading both of your statements believing that the other is also a doctor, I cannot help but wonder why you both are so willing to accept the other's claim, it seems to be the opposite of scrutiny that I would expect.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 16, 2010 17:06:11 GMT -5
I didn't believe his claim at first. I spent much of the Day voting for him. But as I learned more about what was going on in the game, my opinion change.
As for me not being scum...I have never actually been able to make a good case for why I am not scum. It's always clouded by the knowledge of my role no matter what. I know that I am town in this game, I know that I am the doctor. Knowing what I know I find it plausible and in fact likely, that MHaye and Bill are both town. Their being town makes things make sense, their being scum makes things go fuzzy.
With one scum down we are no longer in a desperate lylo situation, though we are still not in great shape unless the scum whiff again toNight,.
Tell me this Red.
Take away the Doctor angle, why do I seem scummy outside of that?
I can, and have at length*, tell you why I think you are scummy.
*Despite your protestations to the contrary. But repeatedly saying that I have never made a case against you doesn't make it so.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 16, 2010 17:13:49 GMT -5
To break things down further. I have given my reason for being against a mass claim at this point, largely because at this time it seems to be a distraction tactic to shift the focus away from a claim v counterclaim scenario. I don't know how you can honestly believe this. Do you think there is anyone in the game that doesn't know that both Bill and I have claimed Doctor roles? Did you fail to notice that the majority of the Day yesterday was taken up with that topic? I don't see any distracting happening. Information is always good. Giving the Cop solid information to lead his investigations is always good. Catching people in lies is always good. Tell me this, what is bad about a mass claim (other than the distraction angle which I don't understand at all) Then again I am almost always pro mass claim. There are really few downsides and a large number of benefits if it is done at the right time. That time was yesterDay. Mass claiming at Night is stupid and I won't advocate it. Mass claiming tomorrow is likely a waste of time considering how many people will be dead, but it won't hurt if done quickly. Is skimming still considered a scum tell? Probably not, but still, it's bad form to start making a case when you haven't actually been reading for comprehension. BTW, for those of you who are following my ongoing campaign to keep mafia lingo meaning what it is supposed to mean, that last paragraph of Red's, and to some extent the whole post, that's smudging. Note that he actually doesn't think Bill is most likely to be scum, he thinks I am, and yet he sheds negative light on him for almost the whole post without ever accusing him of anything.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jul 16, 2010 23:15:06 GMT -5
We definitely have multiple roles in this game. I am pretty sure that peoples color change when an action happens to them at night.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 17, 2010 10:34:53 GMT -5
We definitely have multiple roles in this game. Definitely? That's a BIG word in the world of mafia...
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Post by Red Skeezix on Jul 17, 2010 11:27:55 GMT -5
Why do I think your scum (sans the doctor business)? Your case against pedescribe, then opportunistic vote on me. They were both weak (admittedly it was day one and your day two case resided on assumptions you were making from your day one case). You went from assuming that pedescribe's highlighting was scummy, to thinking me questioning about pedescribe's highlighting was also scummy. You then proceeded to argue that scum would have voted on day one (I consider this to be null there were six voters and it's not likely that we had 6 scum at any point in the day). To break things down further. I have given my reason for being against a mass claim at this point, largely because at this time it seems to be a distraction tactic to shift the focus away from a claim v counterclaim scenario. I don't know how you can honestly believe this. Do you think there is anyone in the game that doesn't know that both Bill and I have claimed Doctor roles? Did you fail to notice that the majority of the Day yesterday was taken up with that topic? I don't see any distracting happening. That's just sophistry. Just because you were unable to derail the train yesterday doesn't mean you weren't trying to. Result does not negate intent. Information is always good. Giving the Cop solid information to lead his investigations is always good. Catching people in lies is always good. Tell me this, what is bad about a mass claim (other than the distraction angle which I don't understand at all) Then again I am almost always pro mass claim. There are really few downsides and a large number of benefits if it is done at the right time. That time was yesterDay. Mass claiming at Night is stupid and I won't advocate it. Mass claiming tomorrow is likely a waste of time considering how many people will be dead, but it won't hurt if done quickly. What is bad about a mass claim? It gives scum a full picture of the game. Information is a double edged sword. When scum is prepared for a mass claim, as it appears they are/were it reveals almost nothing. Is skimming still considered a scum tell? Probably not, but still, it's bad form to start making a case when you haven't actually been reading for comprehension. Skimming? where did I skim, what fact have I missed? BTW, for those of you who are following my ongoing campaign to keep mafia lingo meaning what it is supposed to mean, that last paragraph of Red's, and to some extent the whole post, that's smudging. Note that he actually doesn't think Bill is most likely to be scum, he thinks I am, and yet he sheds negative light on him for almost the whole post without ever accusing him of anything. You can call it what ever you want but that doesn't make it so NAF. It's only smudging if you read the post out of context. I believe I have established that I found it likely that one of you was lying. (Based on capn's post afterwards, i'd like to hear more from him before i proceed further down that road.) I was addressing both of your posts, and further clarifying my suspicions for both of you. You see NAF, unlike you, I am not blessed with the clairvoyance required to discern which of you is telling the truth and which is not. I only have suspicions, and I've been wrong in the past, so in an effort to not leave a stone unturned, I'm not going to blindly pursue you and ignore bill's statements. I see no need to not be critical of his statements, when the historical record would show that that is unwise. Plus by illuminating my position, I am able to provide the ability for you and bill to defend yours. Perhaps there is a point I am missing, or some presumption that i've made, that is mistaken. I would be loathe to lynch you or bill, without providing you with my full reasoning, so that it can be viewed under the critical lens, to find faults. Too often town is too rigid about their conclusions. You can call it smudging if you want, NAF, but in reality it was me highlighting the reasons why either of you could be the lying party. But this may all be for nothing anyways, depending on how the capn elaborates.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jul 17, 2010 19:54:08 GMT -5
At first it seems that the sun has risen twice, but then it becomes obvious that it's just BillMC coming from behind a bush, glowing yellow this time. At little ways away redskeezix is found dead on the ground, makeup washed away to reveal the spiraling yellow tatoos of a Yellow Soul Stainer.
Redskeezix is dead. He was the Yellow Soul Stainer, a mad bomber.
It is now Day 4. Day 4 will end at midnight eastern on Wednesday.
The Living:
1) MHaye 4) BillMC 6) Pedescribe / Sinjin 7) Total Lost 9) Captain Pinkies 11) Pollux Oil 12) NAF
The Dead:
5) FCOD : Town Necromancer 8) Mental Guy: Town Chromamancer 10) Archangel : Town Black Chromamancer 2) Boozahol Squid: Blue Soul Stainer (Mad Bomber) 3) redskeezix : Yellow Soul Stainer (Mad Bomber)
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 17, 2010 22:12:14 GMT -5
Booya. Is it ok for me to brag as long as I am posting in all white when no one can see?
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 17, 2010 22:18:53 GMT -5
Also, I have a theory. So until MHaye gives us an investigation, vote Sinjin for not having been attacked by the soul stainers and for being in a game when I am town. While I know that mathematically it is impossible for there to be a true correlation (random being random and all), in my gut I know that we have never and will never be on the same team.
Oh and for those who don't get the joke above, I could have picked anyone who hadn't been attacked yet, I just picked sinjin because she fit the bill and we have history. It gave her the edge. If my theory is right then there is an equal chance that it is her or the Cap'n. So my vote may move to him depending on how the Day goes.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jul 17, 2010 23:22:40 GMT -5
The reason why I believe NAF and BILLMC both can be doctors is that I have a role similar to some one else (dead) in this game. I killed Red last Night.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jul 18, 2010 2:06:07 GMT -5
Way to go TL!
I can see colors.... You see what I see... Based on colors I say we have more at least 3 more mad bombers left, if my theory is correct.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jul 18, 2010 3:32:35 GMT -5
Morning all.
So, the "primary colour" theory of Soul Staining gets a verification. Also, I don't think the SS are killing people, it looks like they're a group of mad bombers.
In other news, NAF is Town-aligned.
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Post by BillMc on Jul 18, 2010 7:13:10 GMT -5
Well that saves me voting Red today.
Aint I the popular one with a new trendy colour outfit every day!!
Tho something isn't adding up.
Boozy said there were three scum. Cap is implying that there are 5...in a game of 12?
Folk I'm inclined to trust: 1) MHaye 4) BillMC 11) Pollux Oil 7) Total Lost 12) NAF - I'm assuming that despite NAF's name not being in white on the player list, that he has been told to post in white.
The others: 6) Pedescribe / Sinjin 9) Captain Pinkies
If we follow the primary colour idea - then we are still looking for the Red stainer; and we still need to explain the white stain.
So Sinjin and Cap - let's hear your story.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jul 18, 2010 11:47:11 GMT -5
What would you like to know BILL? I am a Chromamancer, I show people the color of their soul. I have targeted:
TL pollux NAF
Based on that we have more than 3 colors showing up I say we have more than 3 mad bombers total.
White = means you were investigated and your soul is pure.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jul 18, 2010 14:00:27 GMT -5
What else means what? Give us as many details as you are allowed Cap.
Fun that I now have 2 cops confirming me, and no cops telling us anything about the people I want to know about.
Sinjin, feel like claiming? Might as well, all the cool kids are doing it. How about anyone else. I am starting to feel like the mass claim isn't a waste of time after all
And yes, I have to post this way. It blows.
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Post by BillMc on Jul 18, 2010 14:41:46 GMT -5
What would you like to know BILL? I am a Chromamancer, I show people the color of their soul. I have targeted: TL pollux NAF Based on that we have more than 3 colors showing up I say we have more than 3 mad bombers total. White = means you were investigated and your soul is pure. Hmm, I'm a little confused.
We're being explicitly told by Blockey in what color to post.
So how does your power tell you, or anyone else, something that isn't already public knowledge?
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Post by sinjin on Jul 18, 2010 14:42:34 GMT -5
Bleh, makes no never mind I guess. I have the worst role possible, probably why pede bailed out. I'm the backup SK with no SK ability until I find the original SK* or the original SK is killed.
*I get to search for him/her every night, woot the fuckin' woot as peeks would say. NAF is not the SK.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jul 18, 2010 17:54:28 GMT -5
What would you like to know BILL? I am a Chromamancer, I show people the color of their soul. I have targeted: TL pollux NAF Based on that we have more than 3 colors showing up I say we have more than 3 mad bombers total. White = means you were investigated and your soul is pure. <color=yellow>Hmm, I'm a little confused. We're being explicitly told by Blockey in what color to post. So how does your power tell you, or anyone else, something that isn't already public knowledge?</color> You are not told to post in a color until you are investigated. night 1 I investigated TL night 2 pollux, night 3 NAF. Mental guy must have investigated you on night 1. Colors we have seen are red, yellow, green, white We have taken out blue and yellow stainers. So that leaves green and red stainers alive. I am going to vote VOTE POLLUXBecause he was RED on night 2 and odds are he is the red stainer. With unstained people I got a PM back with Pollux I got nothing back, when I enquired about it I got told he was stained red.
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Post by BillMc on Jul 18, 2010 18:10:05 GMT -5
Bleh, makes no never mind I guess. I have the worst role possible, probably why pede bailed out. I'm the backup SK with no SK ability until I find the original SK* or the original SK is killed. *I get to search for him/her every night, woot the fuckin' woot as peeks would say. NAF is not the SK. MHaye is the Detective, NAF is the Doc, and I have a protective role.
So if you are telling the truth, in the remaining pool of 4 we have left we supposedly have: - a soul colour detective (as claimed by Cap) - 3 more stainers (according to Cap) - tho Boozy's "slip" was that there were 3 - a second Vig (as claimed by Total) - and a SK and back up SK as claimed by Sinjin
So: -Cap is basically saying Total, Sinjin and Pollux are stainers. -Total is claiming to be a second Vig -Sinjin is a backup SK -Sinjin is saying Cap, Total or Pollux is the current SK
Sorry Cap, I don't buy your 3 more stainer theory - Boozy was caught by a slip, no reason why his slip was a lie.
I also don't buy the second town Vig. That would give the town two kills, plus the lynch, and the scum with no killing roles - totally imbalanced no matter how you cut the custard.
So Total - me thinks you are a Serial Killer, not the Vig (and there she goes killing me again!)
If Sinjin is being truthful, then we also need to remove her Tomorrow as she will be a threat to the town once Total is dead. I'm inclined to believe Sinjin at the moment as why would she claim a role that says she needs to be killed - SK is a town threat.
Which leaves with the quandry - is Cap or Pollux the remaining SS, and will they reach their wincon before we take them out.
Cap's claim, while unsubstantied, is better than no-claim by Pollux - and his waltz in vote boozy waltz out routine is scummy. So I'd say Pollux is the red SS - which is supported by Cap's claim.
Having no kill tonight favours the Town, so Total needs to go first.
Vote Total /
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Post by BillMc on Jul 18, 2010 18:10:46 GMT -5
epic format fail
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Jul 18, 2010 18:37:42 GMT -5
@bill
I am going by the colors we are seeing... If my theory is wrong then it is wrong.... Personally I don't trust "slips" especially from a expereinced player... So I am choosing to beleive we have 4 stainers total and not 3.. I may switch over to TL as the day moves on... But if SINJIN is telling the truth then she will be the SK once TL is lynched, so..... I need to ponder this a bit more....
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