Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 3, 2010 6:07:16 GMT -5
I'm trying to figure out what I think of the Serial Killer-role. A part of me like it because when you have one in a game, often the SK will react in a way that makes the game less predictable. But I'm trying to figure out how to make the role fair to the player that has to play it and to figure out how to balance it. Mostly because I think when the wincon is to "win with the winning team" the SK often plays as a town vig. It's too easy to just claim and then work with town. However with the wincon "win on your own" I guess the game has to either be pretty small OR have a lot of other killing roles to make it fair to the SK. JSexton wrote (or so does the wiki say) "Serial Killer: I actually consider the SK a vanilla mafioso for purposes of game balance, with added points for abilities like being untargetable, investigating as innocents, etc.". But if the SK plays as Town Vig (and I can't even be sure of that) it seems a bit off balance to view the role as a "vanilla mafioso". Someone clever - please enlighten me
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Post by peekercpa on Aug 3, 2010 7:51:27 GMT -5
i think sk is a stinky role. especially if the wincon is solo. because most of the heavy lifters don't have a prayer of being last one standing. and letting them win with the winning team means they just fire away blindly or depending on their preference end up working with one side or the other, indirectly. in which case you kind of have to predict whether the person is more town or more scum inclined and weight appropriately. either that or it gets to close out time and then the sk just seals the deal for the team in the lead (does sis in ragnorak ring a bell) and i have no clue how one would weight that.
the only sk role i like was the one that story did in evil dead (i think). there were two of us and we got certain points for killing certain folks (like 3 for scum and 2 for a town power role and nothing for a vanilla townie or some such nonsense). then whoever had the most points at game over got a win as well even if they were dead or had been dead for quite a while. so it was kind of a game within a game between the two sks. plus he set up a board where we could "encourage" each other. so part of the fun was not only trying to kill folks but also converse, off board, in a manner that might allow you to suss the other fucker out.
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Post by peekercpa on Aug 3, 2010 8:00:04 GMT -5
neta: plus if the first dead sk had more points after the second sk dies a while later and the mod announces that the first sk has won would probably fuck with everyone's head.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Aug 4, 2010 3:36:00 GMT -5
Storyteller had a good SK in the Replicants game. The SK had to be alive when one side had achieved their win condition, but would only win if there were just a few players remaining alive. So for example if town won too quickly then there would be lots of living players and so the SK would lose.
This forced the SK to be a bit of a balancing role, choosing targets to help the side that was behind.
(Incidentally, in that game, the SK came within a whisker of winning)
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Post by Mister Blockey on Aug 4, 2010 11:47:02 GMT -5
In a small game I think the serial killer is perfectly fine just the way it is (as long as it's balanced properly with other roles). I have made several mini's with serial killers. Granted they didn't win in them, but they got fairly close. I recall spooooooky hit lylo twice without town even knowing. In a larger game it gets hinky, but I also have this feeling that serial killers, win or lose, are just plain fun to play.
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Post by sachertorte on Aug 4, 2010 14:35:33 GMT -5
Serial Killer is supposed to be fun because it is fun to play. I agree the the chance of winning is low, but you get to kill people! And you don't need to stress about their alignment. That's FUN!
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Post by Renata on Aug 4, 2010 19:55:49 GMT -5
That is indeed the only redeeming quality. You almost always lose.
Screamers Mafia had an interesting SK role -- he had a one-shot death immunity (NK or lynch) and IIRC was also susceptible only to the weaker detective, not the stronger one. The latter didn't come into play, but the former did. AllWalker played the role well, played the lynch survival even better, and almost won.
I think to give a SK a fighting chance in a larger game, you have to do something like that, or make them third party instead of PFK and use a points system, something.
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Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
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Post by Total Ullz on Aug 5, 2010 7:16:07 GMT -5
In a small game I think the serial killer is perfectly fine just the way it is (as long as it's balanced properly with other roles). I have made several mini's with serial killers. Granted town they didn't win in them, but they got fairly close. I recall spooooooky hit lylo twice without town even knowing. In a larger game it gets hinky, but I also have this feeling that serial killers, win or lose, are just plain fun to play. It really works well in the minis. That's why I was thinking about having it in a larger game. But I'm having a hard time figuring out how to balance it. (ohhh, but it IS a fun role, I agree)
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Post by Rysto on Aug 5, 2010 19:02:59 GMT -5
Serial Killer is supposed to be fun because it is fun to play. I agree the the chance of winning is low, but you get to kill people! And you don't need to stress about their alignment. That's FUN! It depends. If the SK's win condition requires the scum to be dead, you better believe that the SK is going to start caring about their target's alignment. Especially if the town isn't stressing out too much about the alignment of its lynch victims.
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Post by zuma on Aug 5, 2010 21:13:15 GMT -5
It depends. If the SK's win condition requires the scum to be dead, you better believe that the SK is going to start caring about their target's alignment. Especially if the town isn't stressing out too much about the alignment of its lynch victims. I fake-claimed SK with an investigative ability in a recent game. That may give him a bit of help, plus a decent roleclaim, in such situations.
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