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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 30, 2010 20:08:17 GMT -5
chitter?
Little Indian Girl: Meeko can't hold back anymore.... if Puffy was there.... then why is Batman alive? The doc was jailed. It doesn't add up.
An impersonator would make sense. What if someone has the power to disguise themselves as another player and then plant evidence or just visit someone? Then, if watched, the results would state that the player they disguised themselves as visited someone else.
Application: Player A disguises himself as Puffy. Player A visits Batman, he doesn't take any action that has any effect on Batman, but Player B (a watcher who was watching Batman) sees Puffy (actually Player A) there. Meanwhile the real Puffy is no where to be seen.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Sept 30, 2010 20:42:12 GMT -5
Little Indian Girl: Meeko can't hold back anymore.... if Puffy was there.... then why is Batman alive? The doc was jailed. It doesn't add up. Possible ways to complete the equation: 1. Eleanor was lying and isn't the Doc. 2. The jailing process starts at Dawn, so its target is not role-blocked on the Night (s)he is jailed but rather on the following Night. This is certainly possible, as it would be a neat cripple on a standard Scum role-blocker, but it doesn't really gibe that well with my power. 3. We have more than one protective role. Certainly this is possible, too.
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Post by Red Skeezix on Sept 30, 2010 20:44:59 GMT -5
Little Indian Girl: Meeko can't hold back anymore.... if Puffy was there.... then why is Batman alive? The doc was jailed. It doesn't add up. Possible ways to complete the equation: 1. Eleanor was lying and isn't the Doc. 2. The jailing process starts at Dawn, so its target is not role-blocked on the Night (s)he is jailed but rather on the following Night. This is certainly possible, as it would be a neat cripple on a standard Scum role-blocker, but it doesn't really gibe that well with my power. 3. We have more than one protective role. Certainly this is possible, too. Ahem. You left one out. Puffy is lying and is something other than a killing power.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 30, 2010 20:45:19 GMT -5
You are the only person who's talking about whether the Mods are lying to you or not. Nobody else has ever suggested the Mods might be lying except for you. Mister Blockey is lying to your face. actually you brought it up at the beginning of the Day.
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Post by special on Sept 30, 2010 20:51:27 GMT -5
So... if I may introduce the touchy subject... at what point do we talk about what sorts of folks might be likely to visit a declared Detective? hee hee story you are so funny and crack me up. we are supposed to continue talking about whether the mods are lying to us or not. fucking whippersnapper. Stop being an idiot. People aren't saying the mod is lying. People are asking if it's possible that the information that came from the moderator is not accurate. You've answered that it is. Now stop mischaracterizing what others are saying. If you are Town, you're not helping.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 20:53:06 GMT -5
You are the only person who's talking about whether the Mods are lying to you or not. Nobody else has ever suggested the Mods might be lying except for you. Mister Blockey is lying to your face. actually you brought it up at the beginning of the Day. Your buddy The Corinthian brought that up in Post 595. I answered him in Post 599. I don't feel like repeating myself right now, so you'll need to go find it yourself.
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 30, 2010 20:58:56 GMT -5
hee hee story you are so funny and crack me up. we are supposed to continue talking about whether the mods are lying to us or not. fucking whippersnapper. Stop being an idiot. People aren't saying the mod is lying. People are asking if it's possible that the information that came from the moderator is not accurate. You've answered that it is. Now stop mischaracterizing what others are saying. If you are Town, you're not helping. ok, you are cracking me up as well ed. the mod is not lying it's just that the information that we receive from the mod is not accurate, right? swear to og officer i only had a couple of beers and she really looked 18. i guess that's not a lie just inaccurate. jeebus pleebus.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 21:00:05 GMT -5
NETA: And can we talk about quoting things out of context...I'm not sure I've ever seen a finer example
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Post by special on Sept 30, 2010 21:01:51 GMT -5
Stop being an idiot. People aren't saying the mod is lying. People are asking if it's possible that the information that came from the moderator is not accurate. You've answered that it is. Now stop mischaracterizing what others are saying. If you are Town, you're not helping. ok, you are cracking me up as well ed. the mod is not lying it's just that the information that we receive from the mod is not accurate, right? swear to og officer i only had a couple of beers and she really looked 18. i guess that's not a lie just inaccurate. jeebus pleebus. Answer my question from post 565 George, Imagine: Scenario A: Stay Puft targeted Batman. Scenario B: Stay Puft targeted Dexter and was redirected to Batman. Would the results you've been given by the moderators be identical in these 2 Scenarios? I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. Please answer with a simple yes or no before going on to discuss the issue further. I also invite the other masons to answer. and then shut up
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Post by special on Sept 30, 2010 21:03:03 GMT -5
Stop being an idiot. People aren't saying the mod is lying. People are asking if it's possible that the information that came from the moderator is not accurate. You've answered that it is. Now stop mischaracterizing what others are saying. If you are Town, you're not helping. ok, you are cracking me up as well ed. the mod is not lying it's just that the information that we receive from the mod is not accurate, right? swear to og officer i only had a couple of beers and she really looked 18. i guess that's not a lie just inaccurate. jeebus pleebus. because, as I see it. it is possible that Stay Puft targeted Dexter and the moderator told you that Stay Puft targeted Batman. That is inaccurate.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 21:15:20 GMT -5
ok, you are cracking me up as well ed. the mod is not lying it's just that the information that we receive from the mod is not accurate, right? swear to og officer i only had a couple of beers and she really looked 18. i guess that's not a lie just inaccurate. jeebus pleebus. Yes, you've got it exactly right. The Mod is passing on to you information which is not accurate. Why do you have such a problem with that? It's an integral part of the game. I'm not sure why I'm still arguing this with you...I guess I just don't know when to stop... Just for a moment, pretend that I'm telling the truth. I targeted Dexter. But there is a redirector who targeted either me or Dexter (depending on the type of redirector), such that my action was instead taken on Batman. You are watching Batman to see who 'visits' him overnight. You saw me 'visit' him, because he is in fact the person that my action was taken against. Once more, this time with color: I snuck out of my room last Night and crept down the hall to Dexter's room. I cracked open the door, and took a shot at the sleeping figure under the covers. But unbeknownst to me, someone had changed the nameplates on the doors, so what I thought was Dexter's room was actually Batman's, and it was indeed the Caped Crusader that I shot at. The security camera pointed at Batman's door captured all of this activity. So who showed up on it? Yours truly. Because I did indeed 'visit' Batman last Night. I just didn't intend to, and didn't even know I had done so until you watched the tape and told all of us this Morning. Any of this getting through?
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Post by peekercpa on Sept 30, 2010 21:29:06 GMT -5
ok, you are cracking me up as well ed. the mod is not lying it's just that the information that we receive from the mod is not accurate, right? swear to og officer i only had a couple of beers and she really looked 18. i guess that's not a lie just inaccurate. jeebus pleebus. Answer my question from post 565 George, Imagine: Scenario A: Stay Puft targeted Batman. Scenario B: Stay Puft targeted Dexter and was redirected to Batman. Would the results you've been given by the moderators be identical in these 2 Scenarios? I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. Please answer with a simple yes or no before going on to discuss the issue further. I also invite the other masons to answer. and then shut up i have been very clear that i worry about a scum redirector with a claimed compulsive vig from the get go. and now either puffy is lying - needs to die. or scum have a redirector on puffy - needs to die. i don't know how much clearer i can be. and since i feel kind of strongly about this. unvotevote puffyand if puffy is truly town then he knows that i make this vote for the good of the town. matter of fact if puffy is truly town then he would be voting for himself (one of the few times that self destruction makes sense) because he would also believe what he says and would be playing for a town win rather than personal survival. and he would know that someone, not town is driving his potential kills. and that is not good.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 21:44:02 GMT -5
Answer my question from post 565 and then shut up i have been very clear that i worry about a scum redirector with a claimed compulsive vig from the get go. and now either puffy is lying - needs to die. or scum have a redirector on puffy - needs to die. i don't know how much clearer i can be. and since i feel kind of strongly about this. unvotevote puffyand if puffy is truly town then he knows that i make this vote for the good of the town. matter of fact if puffy is truly town then he would be voting for himself (one of the few times that self destruction makes sense) because he would also believe what he says and would be playing for a town win rather than personal survival. and he would know that someone, not town is driving his potential kills. and that is not good.I notice you still didn't answer Raj's question. And I told you a few pages ago that if the Town wants me dead tonight, I don't have a problem with it. But me voting for myself at this point will have just as much impact as me voting for you did. I'll tell you what, if it comes down to a tie between me and Buddy, I'll vote for myself to break it. How's that?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 21:46:23 GMT -5
And the 'nested quotes' bug strikes again. The question that is still unanswered was this one. George, Imagine: Scenario A: Stay Puft targeted Batman. Scenario B: Stay Puft targeted Dexter and was redirected to Batman. Would the results you've been given by the moderators be identical in these 2 Scenarios? I'm not sure how to make it any clearer. Please answer with a simple yes or no before going on to discuss the issue further. I also invite the other masons to answer. Care to take another swing at it?
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Post by Dirx on Sept 30, 2010 21:59:25 GMT -5
A potential argument in favour of lynching known scum over someone who can be anything from scum to SK to a redirected vig:
If scum need to designate a player to make the kill, then reducing their numbers also reduces the powers they're able to use in addition to their kill. If Christ is left to live--and especially if he's* used up his powers as he's claimed (not saying I believe it, but it doesn't make a big difference either way)--then he's a perfect candidate for performing the scum kill Tonight. Doesn't matter if anyone catches him in the act, he's already outed. This allows the other scum to use whatever powers they have at their disposal. If we lynch Buddy C, then the remaining scum have to decide which of them performs the kill. Hopefully, it forces them to forego using a potentially dangerous power.
There are currently at least two major powers that scum should want dead: Doc and Cop. If they're redirecting Stay Puft, then that makes three players they have to target Tonight, unless they want to leave Eleanor alone and play a guessing game as to who she'll try and protect. I can roleblock, and so can potentially throw a large wrench into their plans if they're redirecting Stay Puft. Can they afford to target yet another player in order to make sure things work, especially if they've lost a member? And this is to say nothing of the rest of the powers--claimed and not--we've got at our disposal. There may very well be another town roleblocker around, even.
Anyway, the argument has a few assumptions, but I think it's still pretty decent reasoning. Stay Puft can be dealt with later, and likely neutralized Tonight; I'd feel much better getting rid of an investigated and claimed scum player first.
*Yes, I know DB is a she, but as I've stated before, since I'm referring to players as their costumes, I'm going to use pronouns appropriate to the costumes' genders. Sorry if it bugs anyone.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 30, 2010 22:45:56 GMT -5
Really, no one ever suggested that the mod's were lying? ever? ever ever ever? Oh, please. You know damn well I was implying that 'Choice A' was true. Either George was mistaken, or the Mods were lying. And since we know the latter is false (for all the very correct reasons that George argued all Day long), then the former must be true. I know that is what I meant. You know that is what I meant. Don't try to argue otherwise now. ::: Looks to MarshMan, and points to George and Zedd ::: Given your "I was soooooooo going for choice A" stance above, how does Zedd wash with his Potatoes Au gratin?
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timmy
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In the frozen land of Nador they were forced to eat Robin's minstrels. And there was much rejoicing
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Post by timmy on Sept 30, 2010 22:49:19 GMT -5
Why would anyone not want confirmed Scum dead? Doesn't make sense. Even if he's telling the truth about not having any power left, letting him live toNight means letting him run around and causing possible damage. For all we know he could also be the Jailer.
We can still look for Scum among the unconfirmed, but take care of business first.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Sept 30, 2010 22:54:33 GMT -5
::: Points to the humble monk, and moves his finger across his open palm, as if reading.... and reading... and reading.... and reading... and reading... and reading. ::::
Tell me, what is the town motivation is rehashing a dozen or so posts amidst the confusion we already have?
Two confusions don't make it right. Otherwise Peeker and I would already be the unstoppable force* I feel we can become.
*I mean that Peeker and I together, or in part, still have dormant potential. I still think we have something, if only we can tap into it. When those powers combine look out.
Do not read into this statement that I am saying I am a mason in this game, or have any other known connection to peeker. I can not confirm nor deny any of his .... stuff.
Just pulling from experience, and from the experience of being confused, to illustrate through me, and through peeker that added confusion does not help in this, or any Mafia game, and I question the motivation of it.
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Gir!
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EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Post by Gir! on Sept 30, 2010 23:00:20 GMT -5
Cheese!
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 30, 2010 23:25:57 GMT -5
Oh, please. You know damn well I was implying that 'Choice A' was true. Either George was mistaken, or the Mods were lying. And since we know the latter is false (for all the very correct reasons that George argued all Day long), then the former must be true. I know that is what I meant. You know that is what I meant. Don't try to argue otherwise now. ::: Looks to MarshMan, and points to George and Zedd ::: Given your "I was soooooooo going for choice A" stance above, how does Zedd wash with his Potatoes Au gratin? I would gladly answer your question here, if only I was sure of what you were asking... If you want to know what I think of Zedd's claimed results from last night, I see no reason not to believe he's telling the truth. He came out with the "reading the clouds" thing Yesterday, pointing out if I recall that he found the wording somewhat strange. But given his 'invisibility' last Night, it seems to fit. The Masons didn't 'see' him in Batman's room because he wasn't actually there, his power being able to operate at a distance. If that wasn't what you were asking, please try asking your question again. I'm afraid that marshmallow and potatoes just don't seem to mix well
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 30, 2010 23:26:40 GMT -5
I'm attempting to put a mirror up to their faces so that they can see how frustrating it is to be playing with them. It is precisely because their posts have been confusing and frustrating as all hell, that I refreshed them. I got sick of watching the monkey selectively answer questions, he's been doing it all Day. I got sick of them pretending like they've been clear and reasonable this whole time, because they haven't been.
I'm calling them back out on the carpet for being confusing.
In short, don't blame the messenger. The words are all theirs.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 1, 2010 4:54:12 GMT -5
Heh. No, but seriously. Because I targeted Batman intentionally (and wasn't redirected, as far as I know). And I am reasonably confident that my action was successful. Since the action was a one-shot, I think it's probably time to share what I did. I used an item that would ensure that Batman's intended action, whatever it was, would be successful and correctly targeted. This suggests to me that: (1) There is probably an anti-Town role-blocker, else why give me this ability; and (2) There is almost certainly an anti-Town redirector, else why give me this ability. I may have additional devices with other powers; then again, I may not. I hope you understand that, for now at least, that's all you get to know about that. That's a pretty powerful box of tricks you have there. So you are saying that you made me unblockable last night. By contrast, you could have also made puff's kill unblockable if you so wished. Consider the alternative... that 3 people all target Batman and lie about it when the masons have revealed they know who did and did not target Batman? That's not likely... they'll all end up dead. 3 people were redirected from their targets onto Batman.... meaning there exists 3 anti-town redirectors? also unlikely. Agreed. I've seen "nexus" used in two ways - someone has the role and doesn't know it - and is very lucky to make it past night1. As an active power - which someone has been able to decide who all other actions are redirected to i.e. a mass redirect. Given the number of folk who were reportedly present in the batcave, this would seem that this is the most logical explanation - except - if it were a mass redirect, I would have investigated myself - unless my investigations are intrinsically unblockable - or the mass redirect did not apply to investigations.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Oct 1, 2010 6:25:54 GMT -5
So... if I may introduce the touchy subject... at what point do we talk about what sorts of folks might be likely to visit a declared Detective? Not today. That's for sure. Tomorrow would be a GREAT day for it though. Just in case I'm dead and not around to start the conversation. With two (claimed) vigilantes around I don't see the reason to post pone any discussion that can help them decide on a good target. So some points I mentioned earlier: -if Stay Puft was redirected by scum, it's unlikely scum tried to kill him themselves or visit him for other reasons (as he would be dead and unlikely town power would decide to redirect to Batman) -That last point also indicates that the were-there-but-didn't-mean-to-crowd are probably not scum. Why redirect unknowns to Batman with claimed vigilante around? That still leaves SK for Stay Puft and big questions for Gir! and Galadriel (if I got that right - a nice list from the masons is appreciated) - did you check if your powers are indirect like Zedd now claims? -Since Eleanor didn't visit Batman, the masons exposed a possible town protector (scum could also have been blocked or perhaps recruited instead of a kill) and Maniac narrowed that pool. -A mass redirect seems unlikely unless Columbo is lying (but seems risky because a town Death-of-Rats with active power would have counter claimed) and the jailer was immune (and assuming Maniac is telling the truth about boosting Batman).
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Oct 1, 2010 6:45:10 GMT -5
-That last point also indicates that the were-there-but-didn't-mean-to-crowd are probably not scum. Why redirect unknowns to Batman with claimed vigilante around? That still leaves SK for Stay Puft and big questions for Gir! and Galadriel (if I got that right - a nice list from the masons is appreciated) - did you check if your powers are indirect like Zedd now claims? I can only answer for myself. But it seems very strange that I was seen in the cave if my action was invisible. The point with Zedd is the fact that he says he can't be spotted while still having the action. I was seen in a place where I didn't know I was going. So no - I fairly sure you can rule that one out. -Since Eleanor didn't visit Batman, the masons exposed a possible town protector (scum could also have been blocked or perhaps recruited instead of a kill) and Maniac narrowed that pool. How do you know that Eleanor didn't visit Batman? Have I missed the Masons saying this? -A mass redirect seems unlikely unless Columbo is lying (but seems risky because a town Death-of-Rats with active power would have counter claimed) and the jailer was immune (and assuming Maniac is telling the truth about boosting Batman). I'm trying very hard to figure out why Town would mass-redirect all to the Cop. Knowing there was two vigs out there. So if we were to look at mass-redirect it - IMO - would have to be Scum motivated. However the doctor would then also have been redirected, right? But she apparently wasn't... So for this to be Scum, then they must have jailed the Doctor in order not to protect the Cop. BUT - if we had a mass redirect shouldn't the jailing then have hit the Cop also? Unless the jailing is a Day-power. But most powers so far in this game seem to happen at Night.
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Post by Renata on Oct 1, 2010 8:07:56 GMT -5
I'm in a speculating mood this morning. No guarantees about logic since I'm still sick. Tell me if I'm nuts. Are they looking at me like they want to say I'm insane even before I say the words? I expect not. Shadowthrone's the crazy one, not me.
Could Maniac's action account for Batman's survival? It was something about "guarantee the action goes through" -- does that imply protection? Batman can't receive the result if he's dead.
If so, then it makes the mafia's plans a bit more clear: jail Eleanor; and either kill Batman themselves (Zedd, Rorshach, Gir, Galadriel, whoever else I'm missing) or redirect Stay-Puft to do the deed for them. It occurs to me that the latter option exposes no mafia to a potential town watcher at Batman's house, though of course any of them could be a watcher of the scum's own, or some other more esoteric power role. It also would mean (this is for you, would-be MURDERERS) that none of those players is necessarily protective.
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Post by Renata on Oct 1, 2010 8:10:49 GMT -5
How do you know that Eleanor didn't visit Batman? Have I missed the Masons saying this? Yes, the bhok'arala brought it up somewhere. Mass redirect isn't a road worth following, since Eleanor clearly had an action taken on her.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Oct 1, 2010 8:11:45 GMT -5
That still leaves SK for Stay Puft and big questions for Gir! and Galadriel (if I got that right - a nice list from the masons is appreciated) - did you check if your powers are indirect like Zedd now claims? I can only answer for myself. But it seems very strange that I was seen in the cave if my action was invisible. The point with Zedd is the fact that he says he can't be spotted while still having the action. I was seen in a place where I didn't know I was going. So no - I fairly sure you can rule that one out.[/quote] That's why i asked for a list as I was going from memory (am at work). George claimed this afaik (I'll look it up later). A town would mass-direct to a single person with a doctor alive basically stops all kills (unless unblockable) and even prevents the doctor from being blocked. So I can see why town would use it but not scum (unless they have an unstoppable kill). But as said not all claims/power targeted Batman so it doesn't seem to be a total mass redirect.
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Post by special on Oct 1, 2010 8:18:30 GMT -5
I'm in a speculating mood this morning. No guarantees about logic since I'm still sick. Tell me if I'm nuts. Are they looking at me like they want to say I'm insane even before I say the words? I expect not. Shadowthrone's the crazy one, not me. Could Maniac's action account for Batman's survival? It was something about "guarantee the action goes through" -- does that imply protection? Batman can't receive the result if he's dead. If so, then it makes the mafia's plans a bit more clear: jail Eleanor; and either kill Batman themselves (Zedd, Rorshach, Gir, Galadriel, whoever else I'm missing) or redirect Stay-Puft to do the deed for them. It occurs to me that the latter option exposes no mafia to a potential town watcher at Batman's house, though of course any of them could be a watcher of the scum's own, or some other more esoteric power role. It also would mean (this is for you, would-be MURDERERS) that none of those players is necessarily protective. This post assumes that our Homicidal maniac is telling the truth.
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Post by special on Oct 1, 2010 8:19:04 GMT -5
How do you know that Eleanor didn't visit Batman? Have I missed the Masons saying this? Yes, the bhok'arala brought it up somewhere. Mass redirect isn't a road worth following, since Eleanor clearly had an action taken on her. This post assumes that Eleanor's jailing was caused by a Night action.
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Post by Renata on Oct 1, 2010 8:54:30 GMT -5
I'm in a speculating mood this morning. No guarantees about logic since I'm still sick. Tell me if I'm nuts. Are they looking at me like they want to say I'm insane even before I say the words? I expect not. Shadowthrone's the crazy one, not me. Could Maniac's action account for Batman's survival? It was something about "guarantee the action goes through" -- does that imply protection? Batman can't receive the result if he's dead. If so, then it makes the mafia's plans a bit more clear: jail Eleanor; and either kill Batman themselves (Zedd, Rorshach, Gir, Galadriel, whoever else I'm missing) or redirect Stay-Puft to do the deed for them. It occurs to me that the latter option exposes no mafia to a potential town watcher at Batman's house, though of course any of them could be a watcher of the scum's own, or some other more esoteric power role. It also would mean (this is for you, would-be MURDERERS) that none of those players is necessarily protective. This post assumes that our Homicidal maniac is telling the truth. I think he is -- as I implied last night, the only halfway-reasonable alternate explanation for Batman getting his intended result is that the people going around MURDERING PEOPLE AT NIGHT (bastards) actually wanted him to. And that's a Hood-damned mess to contemplate, if you follow all the implications through. The maniac's explanation is much simpler. Or am I the one making things too complicated? Jailing Eleanor and sending Stay-Puft (or one of their own, conversely; or heck, both) takes out Batman unless the town have a second protective role -- knowing that's possible, do they also make the effort to roleblock or redirect Batman himself, just to make sure? Maybe, maybe not -- so there is in fact no guarantee that Homicidal Maniac's claimed action had any effect. He should still be on my hook. Aargh. I shouldn't be trying to think when I'm sick.
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