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Day Two
Sept 30, 2007 23:53:23 GMT -5
Post by ui on Sept 30, 2007 23:53:23 GMT -5
Hey Roosh, Panamajack, Cookie, atarus, dotchan, zeriel, dnooman, Dio, CaerieD, mhaye and Storyteller, why do you all want to no-lynch? I don't. I just don't want to lynch Roosh anymore. Then vote someone. There's something like 20 hours left. That's barely enough time to get something done, and I guarantee that it won't be if people don't vote.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 0:05:39 GMT -5
Well. I don't know who to vote for really in terms of scumminess from the majority. Because Cookies, well I'm not really sure of the slip. however, there is one person who i KNOW has been clamoring for the death of a townie since this day began.... And if that person turns out to be Scum, then I'll will def. be taking a closer look at the person who i felt was covered up by all the crazy banter.
So since, yeah, I dislike No-lynches, but I also have no other true person to vote for, I will vote for who I feel is the scummiest from my Scum pool of Sinjin, Capt. Klutz, and Ui (reasons outlined in previous posts all thruout Day 2).
Vote Ui. Yeah, you knew it was coming at some point. This is the only place i can feel confident in placing my vote because I know their actions were wrong. Until another case is built for another person, I can't say the same. So yeah. OMGUS! Though you have cooled off on the Anti-Roosh. Which is nice. But still, what gives, man?
And also, I'll try to check back in tomorrow afternoon EST to see what's going on, so that I can contribute better. But right now, this is all I got. I'll prolly be willing to move my vote if I'm around then, but since yeah, I don't wanna have a "no vote", i'll keep it here for posterity.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 0:14:26 GMT -5
Actually hmmm. I'm torn. For me it's a tossup between Klutz: for continueing the UiMadness since he's been here from Day 1 (though yes, he's claimed that he hasn't been reading as much, and missed a few parts) And for Ui because... well, Tunnel Visioning players are bad. And I know my role which pretty much nullifies your Anti-Roosh Theories. So you've contributed of worth besides the Anti-Roosh, pretty much nothing else for the last 40 posts. It's distracting, and well unhelpful. I understand your suspicions of me. That's fine. But your manner of going about it had pretty much derailed all other conversation from your showing up onwards to being about me and Day 1 ideas again. I don't know if you have a hidden agenda or what, but it certainly seems like it.
So consider my vote .5 between them pretty much. As I'd vote for either of them over Sinjin, who simply hasn't posted enough for me to consider.
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 0:14:27 GMT -5
Vote Ui. Yeah, you knew it was coming at some point. This is the only place i can feel confident in placing my vote because I know their actions were wrong. Until another case is built for another person, I can't say the same. So yeah. OMGUS! Though you have cooled off on the Anti-Roosh. Which is nice. But still, what gives, man? Don't vote someone because of what they did. Vote them because why they did it. Seriously you're saying that only scum vote for townies, which is SO VERY DUMB. And I've said that I'm holding back more because I was pissing people off. Oh and you're scum. Now I'm about 70% sure, which is an EXCELLENT lynch.
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 0:16:15 GMT -5
So consider my vote .5 'twixt them pretty much. As I'd vote for either of them over Sinjin, who simply hasn't posted enough for me to consider. Spends some large amount of day 2 voting for a lurker. Says that there's not enough posting to consider someone as scum. HAY KIDS, can you play spot the contradiction?
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Oct 1, 2007 0:16:59 GMT -5
I'm way too tired to cook up a case against someone new, so I'll go back to a case I made earlier today. Nothing like the familiar, eh? vote: sinjin
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 1, 2007 0:20:59 GMT -5
Can the people who claimed fill in the italics (denoting less than 100% confidence) on the claiming spreadsheet? I've tried to slog through and confirm some of them, but have had no luck. Be honest. I know there are people out there with better memories than I who will catch you if you try to pull a sly one.
Here you go, ui:
Vote ui
I've had my vote off of wtf for a few hours, I might very well be in the lead for votes again, and you have the gall to accuse me of striving for a no-lynch? Shut up and let people pick another candidate or two besides me, and I'll consider unvoting you in favor of whoever that might be. In case you might've missed it, people aren't particularly inclined to go along much with anything I say right now, so voting for someone other than another potential candidate on the block is actually more likely to contribute to a no-lynch than waiting to see if another candidate besides me solidifies. And I'm not inclined to re-vote wtf because I'm not yet convinced if he's the scummiest of all of those who have claimed.
So it satisfies me at some juvenile level to hold my vote on you until then, so I'll exercise one of the few perks I get for having my head in the noose.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 0:22:37 GMT -5
Spends some large amount of day 2 voting for a lurker. Says that there's not enough posting to consider someone as scum. HAY KIDS, can you play spot the contradiction? Because with 12=15 hours left, playing "lets lynch the lurker" is futile, it's the equivalent of a NonVote in my eyes. I've already explained actually for the Tragic vote. She's a friend of mine, and I know her, but she wasn't posting. And that made me suspicious. So I was prodding Her. Had she posted AT ALL I would have unvoted her, and been happy once she started posting (because She's the perfect sort of person who WOULD lurk in these sorts of games, but that's meta-gaming on a Real Life Level). The Lurker one was the get activity levels up. She left though and you showed up. And many of the lurkers have started posting. Enough to where at least Scum can't hide by lurker, except unless Sinjin is the only one who's lurking and hiding as scum. But I'm a patient man, I'll give it time to see what happens on Day 3 with her. But I'll still (O_<) her. I've got my "Eye on her" as Atarus likes to say
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 1, 2007 0:23:55 GMT -5
And now of course during posting delays, you're not a one-off anymore. But the rest of the above still stands.
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 0:24:26 GMT -5
Cookie, I'm now convinced that you're town. That post feels really genuine to me, but if you'll notice I just listed everyone who wasn't voting.
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Oct 1, 2007 0:26:28 GMT -5
Don't vote someone because of what they did. Vote them because why they did it. Seriously you're saying that only scum vote for townies, which is SO VERY DUMB. He thinks you voted for a townie because he thinks you're scum, ui. We don't know why people do things, we can only surmise from their actions. And yeah, that includes you. You don't know why people are doing things. You just make these wild leaps without full analysis or consideration, and then assume that by harping on it over and over again, you'll bully your way forward. I'm not joining roosh and Yattara in voting for you because at this point, I'm thinking you're not scum... you're just a twit, who has minimal understanding of how one insinuates oneself into a new social situation. Se.. you have to come to our environment on our terms, we're not going to change for you. Have you noticed that only the new folks (myself included) have leapt onto your bandwagon at all? It's because you're not playing by the rules of the Dope Mafia games. So, yeah, you're a twit. In addition to being a prick, of course.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 0:26:46 GMT -5
Can the people who claimed fill in the italics (denoting less than 100% confidence) on the claiming spreadsheet? Yes. For Me I claim CREW. Not Alliance-Town or some shit like that, as I've been bread-crumbing since day 1. I don't know what the hell Alliance Town is, but I'm not on it. I'm pure Crew 100%. Which is why I believe there is a group of people out there who must ALSO have the role of PURE Crew. Therefore, use some logic, and you can extrapolate my ideas on who would be the likeliest to fulfill the roles of "CREW" and not alliance-Town (which i still don't trust, but i'm giving them the benefit of the ModClarification).
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Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Oct 1, 2007 0:31:37 GMT -5
Can the people who claimed fill in the italics (denoting less than 100% confidence) on the claiming spreadsheet? Yes. For Me I claim CREW. Not Alliance-Town or some gos se like that, as I've been bread-crumbing since day 1. I don't know what the guay Alliance Town is, but I'm not on it. I'm pure Crew 100%. Which is why I believe there is a group of people out there who must ALSO have the role of PURE Crew. Therefore, use some logic, and you can extrapolate my ideas on who would be the likeliest to fulfill the roles of "CREW" and not alliance-Town (which i still don't trust, but i'm giving them the benefit of the ModClarification). I think the Alliance Town must be their Role, while Crew is the alignment. I don't know what your PM says, but mine notes that my Role is "Watcher", while my Alignment is "Crew". I'm guessing that the vanilla Role is "Alliance-Town" I should add that my PM says Crew, despite the fact that Mr. Universe wasn't a member of the Serenity's crew.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 1, 2007 0:34:22 GMT -5
It's okay, Ui, I'm Mr Fucker. So it's not so bad to be a prick to Dio.
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Post by Parzival on Oct 1, 2007 0:35:11 GMT -5
I don't have a vote on right now because I'm not sure whether we can get another candidate up or just force Cookies to claim.
The problem I see with Cookies is that if not enough people really want to lynch her soon enough, when we get a claim it may be too late to pull up someone else. Plus, it's the loss of role information again if we get a claim from a townie.
Eventually we will either have to lynch somebody who claims, I fear, but there still may be time.
As for Idle Thoughts, a closer reading has led me to think he's less scummy than I previously thought. I don't think there many people will jump on this, but at the moment I do honestly find him the most suspicious, so
vote Idle Thoughts
But ... I'll put the hammer on Cookies if it comes to it. See what happens in the morning.
To UI - Roosh has potential value in the endgame, only if he can be confirmed.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 0:38:31 GMT -5
As for Idle Thoughts, a closer reading has led me to think he's less scummy than I previously thought. I don't think there many people will jump on this, but at the moment I do honestly find him the most suspicious, so vote Idle Thoughts Que? That seems like a non-sequitor of Dotchan proportions. I mean i think i know what you're saying. But what are You saying rather than me thinking it, i'd rather just know?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 1, 2007 0:45:33 GMT -5
While y'all sort that out, I'm going to bed. I should be back online by 6:30am (Pacific) tomorrow. Try not to hammer me until then at least.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 1:03:48 GMT -5
Tragic, It really looks like you are running interference by going after Roosh to prevent Cookies from getting lynched. You are Patience won't work. If the town doesn't kill members of Serenity's crew and the scum does, there will never be a dead scum crewmember, no matter how many of them exist. Then the town will never kill a member of Serenity's crew as all the dead ones are town. Then we will lose the game. If this is not a call to lynch members of the Firefly crew, I'm not sure what is. And more ad-hom. Do you have a reason to make sure my opinion doesn't become popular? Only if you didn't read the rules. You did read the rules, right?!
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 1:13:31 GMT -5
To UI - Roosh has potential value in the endgame, only if he can be confirmed. The scum do not need to kill him to win, right? So why is his ability such a specter to them?
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 1:16:35 GMT -5
If this is not a call to lynch members of the Firefly crew, I'm not sure what is. It's a call to not refuse to lynch members of Serenity's crew. There's a VITAL difference there. And more ad-hom. Do you have a reason to make sure my opinion doesn't become popular? Only if you didn't read the rules. You did read the rules, right?! I'm voting in blue, aren't I?
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Oct 1, 2007 1:17:57 GMT -5
Eventually we will either have to lynch somebody who claims, I fear, but there still may be time. As for Idle Thoughts, a closer reading has led me to think he's less scummy than I previously thought. You mind saying what or are you just blowing wind? What, exactly, have I done or said that was soooo scummy on a "closer" reading?
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 1:22:24 GMT -5
Tragic, It really looks like you are running interference by going after Roosh to prevent Cookies from getting lynched. You are quite right, you did not suggest killing off crew members until we hit scum. You said we should kill off all crew members because one of them would be scum ( JSexton told you so, didn't he ) Patience won't work. If the town doesn't kill members of Serenity's crew and the scum does, there will never be a dead scum crewmember, no matter how many of them exist. Then the town will never kill a member of Serenity's crew as all the dead ones are town. Then we will lose the game. If this is not a call to lynch members of the Firefly crew, I'm not sure what is. And you are still yet to refute my argument, instead referring to it as a straw man. If you cannot refute my argument, say so, but dismissing it out of hand as a straw man is quite scummy. And more ad-hom. Do you have a reason to make sure my opinion doesn't become popular? Only if you didn't read the rules. You did read the rules, right?! Recruitment in game is fun and scary, and it means you have to think a lot harder on how people have played. With the added bonus of trying to second guess the scum. What is more interesting is that you are determined to lynch Roosh, but you are absolutely convinced that he is not worth anything in the end game. Also, Roosh has no value in the endgame. The scum gets to leave one role alive for each member of the mafia that's alive. If Roosh survives until the end and is town, they can keep him alive and kill him in the endgame. I disagree, as a known crewmember, he is one less person the town has to consider when in the end game. Wrong. Passive towns lose games. When the townies aren't willing to stir up shit, they cannot win. Remember that all the scum needs to do is maintain the status quo. It's the town that needs to actively push the thread in order to even have a chance. I love aggressive townies. So you go after one of the more aggressive townies claiming he is scum. Are you serious?
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 1:26:19 GMT -5
That was weird. I hadn't realised I had only partially posted.
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 1, 2007 1:35:21 GMT -5
"I disagree, as a known crewmember, he is one less person the town has to consider when in the end game. " -CatinaSuit.
IF I'M Verified that Is. I know my role/alignment, but you guys don't. You shouldn't just give me a free pass on that, though I'd appreciate it but still. If we had a stronger investigatory role or something, it'd be nice. Or if we just waited and see what turns up among the crew members if there is or isn't a pattern.
Be suspicious of me, that's fine. Question me at any time, that's fine. But don't be Tunnel Visioned by it. Or stupid about it.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 1:41:41 GMT -5
"I disagree, as a known crewmember, he is one less person the town has to consider when in the end game. " -CatinaSuit. IF I'M Verified that Is. I know my role/alignment, but you guys don't. You shouldn't just give me a free pass on that, though I'd appreciate it but still. If we had a stronger investigatory role or something, it'd be nice. Or if we just waited and see what turns up among the crew members if there is or isn't a pattern. Be suspicious of me, that's fine. Question me at any time, that's fine. But don't be Tunnel Visioned by it. Or stupid about it. Fair point Roosh. I'm just surprised by how sure ui is that you are scum, when he hasn't looked at any other the other possibilities. Also if he is scum, then his claim that we must lynch crew members begins to look really interesting. <meta-game> Besides if any crew was going to be a traitor, we know it would be Jayne ) </meta-game>
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 1:41:42 GMT -5
Tragic, It really looks like you are running interference by going after Roosh to prevent Cookies from getting lynched. You are quite right, you did not suggest killing off crew members until we hit scum. You said we should kill off all crew members because one of them would be scum ( JSexton told you so, didn't he ) Link and argue or STFU. I never said that all of Serenity's crew had to die and I defy you to show me where. Patience won't work. If the town doesn't kill members of Serenity's crew and the scum does, there will never be a dead scum crewmember, no matter how many of them exist. Then the town will never kill a member of Serenity's crew as all the dead ones are town. Then we will lose the game. If this is not a call to lynch members of the Firefly crew, I'm not sure what is. And you are still yet to refute my argument, instead referring to it as a straw man. If you cannot refute my argument, say so, but dismissing it out of hand as a straw man is quite scummy. "You want to lynch the Firefly crew!" "Um, no. I want to not assume that all members of the Firefly crew are town because that'll bite us in the ass." "OMG you're not answering my argument!" (If I show that it's a straw man, I don't need to answer it because it's not arguing against my point. It's arguing against something entirely different.) Only if you didn't read the rules. You did read the rules, right?! Recruitment in game is fun and scary, and it means you have to think a lot harder on how people have played. With the added bonus of trying to second guess the scum. What is more interesting is that you are determined to lynch Roosh, but you are absolutely convinced that he is not worth anything in the end game. His role is worth nothing. Maybe I wasn't clear on that, I don't know. But he's nothing special in that sense. I disagree, as a known crewmember, he is one less person the town has to consider when in the end game. So your argument is that confirmed townies are not scum? Because that isn't very compelling. Wrong. Passive towns lose games. When the townies aren't willing to stir up shit, they cannot win. Remember that all the scum needs to do is maintain the status quo. It's the town that needs to actively push the thread in order to even have a chance. I love aggressive townies. So you go after one of the more aggressive townies claiming he is scum. Are you serious? Uh... yeah? I'm not voting him because he's aggressive. I'm voting him because he's scum. There IS no better vote then scum.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 1:53:01 GMT -5
Patience won't work. If the town doesn't kill members of Serenity's crew and the scum does, there will never be a dead scum crewmember, no matter how many of them exist. Then the town will never kill a member of Serenity's crew as all the dead ones are town. Then we will lose the game. Ok. You read it one way as, we should not be afraid to lynch known crew members. Let me reverse your sentence to clear this up slightly. The town will lose the game.A nice absolute that the town will lose if they don't follow your course of action. Then the town will never kill a member of Serenity's crew as all the dead ones are town. So, in other words, after a few nights the only remaining members of serenity's crew will be scum, because the town would never lynch them. If the town doesn't kill members of Serenity's crew and the scum does, there will never be a dead scum crewmember, no matter how many of them exist.So, the only way to kill a dead scum crewmember is to lynch the crew. But from the point above, you are certain that at least one of the crew is scum. So we should lynch the crew. This requires the assumption that one or more of the Serenity's crew are scum. It is also concerning because after a while your assumption will be that any of the crew left is scum and you will want to lynch them regardless because obviously you are right. Sorry, not buying it, ui. Whatever you intended to write, I have interpreted differently. But then, that's part of what this game is about isn't it.
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 1:59:19 GMT -5
This requires the assumption that one or more of the Serenity's crew are scum. It is also concerning because after a while your assumption will be that any of the crew left is scum and you will want to lynch them regardless because obviously you are right. Tell me you see the difference between "Let's go lynch the whole crew" and "Scum are almost certain to be hiding in the crew, so we're going to need to lynch the scummy ones." I have never advocated playing on autopilot because of role. Because that's a very easy way for the town to lose. I am not calling for Roosh's death BECAUSE he is a member of Serenity's crew. I am calling for his death because I BELIEVE HIM TO BE SCUM. Do you see the vital difference there?
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 1, 2007 2:26:34 GMT -5
This requires the assumption that one or more of the Serenity's crew are scum. It is also concerning because after a while your assumption will be that any of the crew left is scum and you will want to lynch them regardless because obviously you are right. Tell me you see the difference 'twixt "Let's go lynch the whole crew" and "Scum are almost certain to be hiding in the crew, so we're going to need to lynch the scummy ones." I have never advocated playing on autopilot because of role. Because that's a very easy way for the town to lose. I am not calling for Roosh's death BECAUSE he is a member of Serenity's crew. I am calling for his death because I BELIEVE HIM TO BE SCUM. Do you see the vital difference there? Yes, I can see the difference in the two statements. But that was not how I interpreted your original statement. Thank you for the clarification. Simple question, why do you think I am not scum instead of Roosh?. That is the argument I wanted you to explain. You argument against him appears to be, in a nutshell, he suggested that all Serenity Crew members were not scum, so he must be scum. Could you clarify further please? Roosh is not going to get counterclaimed. Therefore he is either Inara or the scum were given Inara as a fake-claim. However, there is no reason to suspect that Inara is town. There is no 9 person flavor masonry. I guarantee it. (And it looks like you're claiming that everyone who's claimed so far is town. Why's that? I mean, they were seen as scummy enough to get driven to a claim...) By the way how can you guarantee this. Unless you have extra knowledge the rest of the vanilla town does not. You say that the scum was given Inara as a fake claim. What does this mean? Assuming all the Serenity crew are not scum. If we all role name claimed. Everyone would say their name. As stated earlier it means nothing. Then the scum could pick off the Serenity crew night after night leaving a larger pool of unknown vanilla townies to choose from.
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Post by ui on Oct 1, 2007 2:40:38 GMT -5
Tell me you see the difference 'twixt "Let's go lynch the whole crew" and "Scum are almost certain to be hiding in the crew, so we're going to need to lynch the scummy ones." I have never advocated playing on autopilot because of role. Because that's a very easy way for the town to lose. I am not calling for Roosh's death BECAUSE he is a member of Serenity's crew. I am calling for his death because I BELIEVE HIM TO BE SCUM. Do you see the vital difference there? Yes, I can see the difference in the two statements. But that was not how I interpreted your original statement. Thank you for the clarification. Simple question, why do you think I am not scum instead of Roosh?. That is the argument I wanted you to explain. You argument against him appears to be, in a nutshell, he suggested that all Serenity Crew members were not scum, so he must be scum. Could you clarify further please? I didn't like the way in which he did it, I also had problems with his mathod of continuing to argue in favor of it while trying to appear that he didn't, and there were a few other times when he did similar things. For example, when I began asking questions about yesterday's lynch, he was very quick to point out that he was only one vote and that he was one of the earlier votes, so it's not him I should look at. Also extremely blatant OMGUS saying that I'm wrong and therefore scum for accusing him. Roosh is not going to get counterclaimed. Therefore he is either Inara or the scum were given Inara as a fake-claim. However, there is no reason to suspect that Inara is town. There is no 9 person flavor masonry. I guarantee it. (And it looks like you're claiming that everyone who's claimed so far is town. Why's that? I mean, they were seen as scummy enough to get driven to a claim...) By the way how can you guarantee this. Unless you have extra knowledge the rest of the vanilla town does not. You say that the scum was given Inara as a fake claim. What does this mean? Assuming all the Serenity crew are not scum. If we all role name claimed. Everyone would say their name. As stated earlier it means nothing. Then the scum could pick off the Serenity crew night after night leaving a larger pool of unknown vanilla townies to choose from. If all of the crew of Serenity were not scum and we could KNOW that, there would be a minimum of 12 people that are known town due to role. 11 of them would be essentially modfirmed. I can't guarantee that there's scum in Serenity's crew. I am, however, over 99% sure that it's the case. (A fakeclaim is when the mafia is given the information that there is no townie with a certain name. Basically they know that they can claim it without getting counterclaimed.)
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