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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 4, 2007 5:00:07 GMT -5
Roosh 2.575
Roosh, I have never voted for you.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 4, 2007 5:04:45 GMT -5
Ui 2.582
I would still go after Cookies.
In fact, I will start toDay with vote Cookies.
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Post by Captain Klutz on Oct 4, 2007 5:15:22 GMT -5
Roosh 2.602
Okay, I'll explain a bit better what that was about.
I had re-read Day 1 looking specifically for people who seemed to know too much about how names were distributed. My thinking was that, since the scum had a chance to speak before Day 1, they would have lots more info about names. For example, if any one of them had a made up name then they would all know that made up names were possible. However, I didn't find anything (except Roosh, of course, but we all knew that one). I decided it wasn't worth making a post to say that I didn't find anything, so I left it.
During my re-read, I noticed that CatInASuit's name claim seemed to save him, and I wondered if it actually was just his name or the fact that he claimed vanilla crew that got him off the hook. Then Cat started Day 2 by making a list of "shiny people" and including himself on the list (2.27). I wasn't too happy with this, and in my first Day 2 post (2.32) I reminded people about the danger of automatically marking some names as "good" (yes, I brought up some name stuff, long before ui arrived).
Then ui arrived and stirred up some name discussion. I thought it seemed a reasonable place to ask Cat's unvoters about their action (2.456). This resulted in:
atarus 2.474 (underlining added)
I was bringing it up because I was trying to find out whether it was Cat's name or his claim of vanilla that saved him. There was already some name discussion happening, so it looked reasonable to ask. And I had earlier noted Cat's attempt to mark himself as "shiny", and to me that looked suspicious.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2007 6:14:11 GMT -5
Again, a COMPLETE misrepresentation of the facts. I won't even bother to address any of the points, save one, because the rest I've already addressed multiple times. Ah, yes, the roll-eyes. A compelling contribution to any debate. As I said, I'm not going to engage you on this. I've made my points, and I'll leave it to the rest of the town to examine them and decide whether they are accurate.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 4, 2007 6:26:13 GMT -5
Roosh, I have never voted for you. Ah, if that's the case then sorry. For you it was added to the whole Ui fiasco (I just presumed you voted somewhere in there for me), but yeah, it was mostly for bringing back the Day 1 stuff. And because you were one of the quiet Day 1 (hence in that tier of where scum could hide). But mostly it was your Day 2 stuff w/ Ui, just encouraging the guy I felt that was really unhelpful. You explained it a little (saying you hadn't really been reading on Day 1 that closely and might have missed it). And so I just left it there, and haven't revisited the issue.
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Post by Drain Bead on Oct 4, 2007 6:36:46 GMT -5
So the other people dinging my scum-o-meter, before WTF inexplicably started voting like a total psycho, were Cookies, BLAM, Idle, and hockey, pretty much in that order. I'll start my day off with a vote for Cookies.
There's something else jumping out at me too...I'm going to check on that and post again.
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Post by Drain Bead on Oct 4, 2007 6:42:42 GMT -5
So Why Did Zeriel Die? It's a WIFOM question, we all know that. But the man was vocal, he was pro-lynching, and he wasn't a "safe" kill in terms of no info being gathered by his death, as he left plenty of information on his thoughts. My guess is maybe they thought he was a power role? Unsure, and won't really pursue it further. This was just to provide a list of his major posts in case if others wanted a quick place to look at them and then be able to look them up. So do with this info as you will. Underlining mine. The one thing we learned yesterDay morning after the dust settled was that we had the potential for two remaining night kills. I think everyone assumed at that point that we had a SK (now dead), scum, and a potential Vig. There was only one kill last Night. If I had to guess, I'd say that the scum did NOT kill zeriel. There's a bodyguard and a watcher that are claimed now--why would they not roll the dice and try to kill one of those two? The assumption I would make is that the scum got their kill of either Dio or wtf blocked, and the Vig went for zeriel. So, Roosh...what is this "they"? How do you know that zeriel was killed by a group and not by a solo artist?
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 4, 2007 6:55:45 GMT -5
Morning all, Well Zeriel sorry to see you go, you will be missed (until the next sub is required of course ) So back to the scum hunt. I will refrain on doing a shiny character list as it seemed to cause more discussion that it should. Yes, I will agree that a few people on it probably should not be. However, I reserve the right to say I am shiny, if only because I know I am crew and it was my list For Day 2: It was interesting but it did not change a lot of my thoughts (apart from those about tragic/ui) A question for the town at large: Does it seem like Storyteller and Blaster Master are having their own private argument that everyone else can hear but is not paying too much attention to. I am beginning to wonder if it is a scum/scum ploy to ensure that one of them looks real shiny after the other is lynched. Neither of them spent much time (if at all) in analysis of other players yesterday and spent it arguing. How could two of the most experienced players so say much without saying so little. They certainly haven't been spending their time looking for scum amongst everyone else. But after that, we still have the matter of the town vs Cookies. Not a lot really changed on this and the slip still looks scummy. I'm not immediately going to vote, because I want to see what everyone else has to contribute. Finally, my name claim on Day 1. Yes, people did unvote me because of my name, not because of my claim. What was interesting was the reasoning behind people's vote/unvote for myself and dotchan given that we were both vanilla townies.
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Post by whatthefrak on Oct 4, 2007 7:09:50 GMT -5
That hurts. Just to clarify: My first vote of the whole game was for Diomedes. My second (that didn't count because I didn't unvote) was for the current group choice Cookies. Besides, she pretty much challenged me to vote for her. How could I not oblige? I didn't correct that, because by the time I returned, there was the start of a bandwagon against the other half of Diomedes and Roosh. So rather than unvote, revote, unvote, and vote, I unvoted and voted.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 4, 2007 8:25:57 GMT -5
Well, here we are.
As promised, here is my vote for Cookies. Last night's death doesn't give us a whole lot of information, so I'm comfortable resuming my vote for Cookies until someone else looks more scummy to me.
--FCOD
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 8:40:51 GMT -5
Blaster/Spiff/Batman/Picard, Is there any chance of you settling on one name? Well, at this point I'm just having soem fun. I'll be chaning it back to Spiff again sometime today for the rest of the Day.
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 8:47:46 GMT -5
A question to the Cookies voters:
Do you have anything else going against her besides the "slip"? I, for one, among others, it seems, find that slip less than spectacularly convincing.
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 9:02:24 GMT -5
So Why Did Zeriel Die? It's a WIFOM question, we all know that. But the man was vocal, he was pro-lynching, and he wasn't a "safe" kill in terms of no info being gathered by his death, as he left plenty of information on his thoughts. My guess is maybe they thought he was a power role? Unsure, and won't really pursue it further. This was just to provide a list of his major posts in case if others wanted a quick place to look at them and then be able to look them up. So do with this info as you will. Underlining mine. The one thing we learned yesterDay morning after the dust settled was that we had the potential for two remaining night kills. I think everyone assumed at that point that we had a SK (now dead), scum, and a potential Vig. There was only one kill last Night. If I had to guess, I'd say that the scum did NOT kill zeriel. There's a bodyguard and a watcher that are claimed now--why would they not roll the dice and try to kill one of those two? The assumption I would make is that the scum got their kill of either Dio or wtf blocked, and the Vig went for zeriel. So, Roosh...what is this "they"? How do you know that zeriel was killed by a group and not by a solo artist? First of all, this is WAY unnecessary grammar pickiness. "They" is often used when the gender and/or number of the object to which one is refering is unknown. Granted, this is generally considered poor grammar, but it is hardly any sort of a scum tell. In fact, your response seems mroe indicative of additional knowledge than the post to which you responded. In my mind, I had Zeriel down as a potential power role, and I didn't see any reason to suspect that he was scum... certainly not enough for the Vig to attack him when there were plenty of other people with ...Now, I'm not going to theorize further on the Vig's strategy, assuming there is one, because I think that it is fruitless to the town and potentially helpful to scum. However, I'm having trouble seeing any sort of pro-town motivation behind this sort of post, as it serves to both smudge Roosh and raise doubt about last Night without adding anything but pure unsubstantiable speculation to the equation to the town.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2007 9:03:11 GMT -5
I know this was directed to "the town at large," but may I respond to it anyway? YesterDay, by my very unofficial count I made around 25 posts. Of those, 10 were spent arguing with Blaster Master. Five were spent in ancillary discussions. Ten were spent arguing with, arguing against, and ultimately voting (and unvoting and voting and unvoting again) ui. So it's not really true that I didn't spend much time (if at all) in analysis of other players or looking for scum among other players - my actual VOTE yesterday was for a player other than Blaster Master. Now, I'd say that it IS true of Blaster Master - in fact, it's part of my argument against him.
Now, I don't know how what I've said on the subject seems to be not saying much to you. And I do wonder why, exactly, our argument has been so roundly ignored. Here's an honest question: regarding the points I've raised against BM, do you, personally, feel that they are: (1) Not true?; or (2) Not indicative of dishonest or scummy behavior?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 4, 2007 9:11:28 GMT -5
Underlining mine. The one thing we learned yesterDay morning after the dust settled was that we had the potential for two remaining night kills. I think everyone assumed at that point that we had a SK (now dead), scum, and a potential Vig. There was only one kill last Night. If I had to guess, I'd say that the scum did NOT kill zeriel. There's a bodyguard and a watcher that are claimed now--why would they not roll the dice and try to kill one of those two? The assumption I would make is that the scum got their kill of either Dio or wtf blocked, and the Vig went for zeriel. So, Roosh...what is this "they"? How do you know that zeriel was killed by a group and not by a solo artist? First of all, this is WAY unnecessary grammar pickiness. "They" is often used when the gender and/or number of the object to which one is refering is unknown. Granted, this is generally considered poor grammar, but it is hardly any sort of a scum tell. In fact, your response seems mroe indicative of additional knowledge than the post to which you responded. In my mind, I had Zeriel down as a potential power role, and I didn't see any reason to suspect that he was scum... certainly not enough for the Vig to attack him when there were plenty of other people with ...Now, I'm not going to theorize further on the Vig's strategy, assuming there is one, because I think that it is fruitless to the town and potentially helpful to scum. However, I'm having trouble seeing any sort of pro-town motivation behind this sort of post, as it serves to both smudge Roosh and raise doubt about last Night without adding anything but pure unsubstantiable speculation to the equation to the town. Heaven and Earth may crumble at these words, but I agree with Captain Jean Luc Batman. The "slip" attributed to Cookies is at least somewhat substantive, if less compelling than its proponents are trying ot make it; this "slip" is just grammar. Combined with the fact that your particular target has been under suspicion in the past, it looks to me like you're reaching - like you rolled out of bed this Morning intending to vote for Roosh and to find a reason to get others to do so, noticed that Cookies' linguistic troubles had earned her votes, and scoured Roosh's posts for anything at all you could use as a tell. It seems, in short, opportunistic. My vote's going to hang where it is right now, but in the interest of making a statement backed up by some color: FoS drainbead
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 4, 2007 9:24:33 GMT -5
A question to the Cookies voters: Do you have anything else going against her besides the "slip"? I, for one, among others, it seems, find that slip less than spectacularly convincing. Yup: something interesting in this post Day 2 #555 followed by Cookies in post #556 Now, Idle Thoughts was making the point that we could not keep backing off from people who were claiming names from Firefly. Cookies has applied this to dnooman who was the first to claim with a vanilla role. The problem is that I consider dnooman well cleared for reasons other than claiming a name within the FireFly universe. And if Cookies had had the same PM's as myself, Idle Thoughts and other vanilla crew members, she would know why he was cleared instead saying that some suspicion should be placed back on him. Sorry Cookies, that's slip no.2 Vote Cookies
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Post by The Real FCOD on Oct 4, 2007 9:37:54 GMT -5
Yup: something interesting in this post Day 2 #555 {snip} Cookies has applied this to dnooman who was the first to claim with a vanilla role. The problem is that I consider dnooman well cleared for reasons other than claiming a name within the FireFly universe. And if Cookies had had the same PM's as myself, Idle Thoughts and other vanilla crew members, she would know why he was cleared instead saying that some suspicion should be placed back on him. Captain Picard: What CatinaSuit said. Plus I have a general gut suspicion of her that is unexplainable. --FCOD
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Post by Drain Bead on Oct 4, 2007 9:53:32 GMT -5
In fact, your response seems mroe indicative of additional knowledge than the post to which you responded. In my mind, I had Zeriel down as a potential power role, and I didn't see any reason to suspect that he was scum... certainly not enough for the Vig to attack him when there were plenty of other people with But you can take that argument (at least where I'm assuming you're going with that) and turn it around on the scum. Why would the scum go for zeriel when there are two claimed power roles out there? Wouldn't it be better to role the dice and try to knock off the bodyguard or watcher role, rather than go for a complete unknown? Maybe we disagree because I hadn't gotten a read on zeriel at all, but I saw the events of last night unfolding in an entirely different way than it seems that Roosh did. And to me, "why was zeriel killed" is a much different question than "why did they kill zeriel," and I think one question is much more likely to be asked by scum than not. When you factor this out with the fact that Roosh's claimed power makes him less likely to be nightkilled, and that Roosh was the first person to come up with the name-claim idea (possibly because he had an idea it might give him cred!) it definitely makes me suspect Roosh more than I did before. He's now my second-leading scum candidate, behind Cookies.
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Post by CatInASuit on Oct 4, 2007 10:09:04 GMT -5
Wild speculative post about last nights killings.
The Vigilante (if that roles exists) did not try to kill anyone last night.
Zeriel was killed by the scum because of the likelyhood of the other roles being protected. Instead of taking a risk running into a blocker, they went for someone completely unobvious.
Kinda makes sense really.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 10:34:27 GMT -5
Cat & Cow, fair enough. As I stated back on Day one, I've been moderately suspicious of her for tone, but the "slip" didn't do anything for me. At least that is an articulable point.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 4, 2007 10:43:11 GMT -5
So CK chimes in to vote with me in a brief sentence, and then goes on to "explain" why Roosh's hunch that one of the two ( ui & CK) can't possibly be correct. drain chimes in with a "me too". Then FCoD chimes in with yet another "me too". The only one not to "me too" on the tired "slip" wagon was CatNow, Idle Thoughts was making the point that we could not keep backing off from people who were claiming names from Firefly. Cookies has applied this to dnooman who was the first to claim with a vanilla role. The problem is that I consider dnooman well cleared for reasons other than claiming a name within the FireFly universe. And if Cookies had had the same PM's as myself, Idle Thoughts and other vanilla crew members, she would know why he was cleared instead saying that some suspicion should be placed back on him. Sorry Cookies, that's slip no.2 Vote CookiesRight. That was me with a super-cool-ace-ninja-reverse-psychology move to pile onto dnooman . Let's revisit that statement, shall we? [I don't know if I'm remembering this reason as to why dnooman is less suspicious exactly right or not, so I'll admit that my memory is involved and slap a ? on the end] + [Anyway, I don't suspect him very much compared to the rest of of the pool of claimed people.] That's what him being somewhat "absolved of re-scrutiny" means in that sentence. Now you happen to be on the list of people who have name claimed with no counterclaim, and you've claimed to be vanilla. Welcome to the Pool of Scrutiny without the perk of being absolved. You're joined there by Roosh, Diomedes, and wtf. As far as I'm concerned, unless some sort of verifiable proof can be provided that your powers are what they say they are, and are being used with the alignment intent that you say they are being used, you are all very much back in circulation in the Pool of Scrutiny. FOS on all 4 of you.Diomedes especially has his work cut out for him, because I'm starting to get a bad feeling about these "They were just sleeping" reads that he's getting on people. The kind of bad feeling that may extend to those that he's been "watching". How convenient would it be if he were actually a scum factory for somewhat plausible alibis, while these "sleeping" individuals are actually out murdering Shepherds and Masons?
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Post by NAF1138 on Oct 4, 2007 10:49:09 GMT -5
Let's get a quick count of those votes!
4- ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies (Captain Klutz, drainbead, FCoD, CiaS)
1- BlasterMaster (storyteller) 1- Storyteller (Captain Spaceman Blam)
6 of 23 votes cast. With 23 alive it takes 12 to lynch.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 10:52:33 GMT -5
In fact, your response seems mroe indicative of additional knowledge than the post to which you responded. In my mind, I had Zeriel down as a potential power role, and I didn't see any reason to suspect that he was scum... certainly not enough for the Vig to attack him when there were plenty of other people with But you can take that argument (at least where I'm assuming you're going with that) and turn it around on the scum. Why would the scum go for zeriel when there are two claimed power roles out there? Wouldn't it be better to role the dice and try to knock off the bodyguard or watcher role, rather than go for a complete unknown? Maybe we disagree because I hadn't gotten a read on zeriel at all, but I saw the events of last night unfolding in an entirely different way than it seems that Roosh did. And to me, "why was zeriel killed" is a much different question than "why did they kill zeriel," and I think one question is much more likely to be asked by scum than not. When you factor this out with the fact that Roosh's claimed power makes him less likely to be nightkilled, and that Roosh was the first person to come up with the name-claim idea (possibly because he had an idea it might give him cred!) it definitely makes me suspect Roosh more than I did before. He's now my second-leading scum candidate, behind Cookies. Maybe they decided it wasn't worth it. The scum have no idea how many blocking type roles there were. If there's 1, they had a 50% chance, if there's 2 (which is entirely possible) then they had only a 25% chance. Maybe one or both of the claimed power roles is actually scum. Maybe they thought they had a good bead on Zeriel as a power role and were pretty sure he wasn't protected (unless he was a blocker and self-blocking). Maybe there isn't even a Vig at all. The only evidence we have to support that is what Panamajack said. Both Nights' death counts can be explained without a Vig. Maybe the Vig does exist, but he doesn't have to kill. Maybe the Vig exists and did try to kill and he was blocked instead of the scum. This is equally likely, probabilistically speaking and more likely IMO (because of the identity of the dead), if this is the case. IOW, you're now suspicious of Roosh because you're assuming the Vig exists, that the scum thought it was worth going after one of the power roles, that the Vig found Zeriel scummy (when you admit not having a read, and I thought I had a potential power role read on him)... all because he used "they" when the identity and number of the actor to which he was refering is unknown, which is a common grammatical construction? I also completely fail to see the difference between the questions "why was zeriel killed?" and "why did they kill zeriel?" This stinks of back-tracking, enough that I'm happy to leave my Storyteller convictions behind (also because they aren't getting any traction) and see you get lynched instead. Unvote StorytellerVote drainbead
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 4, 2007 10:57:03 GMT -5
*Ground Control to Major Tom Picard* Welcome back out of Math Vendetta orbit. It is good to see you playing the same game as the rest of us again.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 11:00:22 GMT -5
To substantiate my pre-existing suspicion a little bit. As I stated on Day One, I found your tone questionable. Further, I have yet to see any sort of vote from you besides a "me too" vote. Your behavior in my judgment has been to consistently push bandwagons, increase general suspicion, and I have not seen any real contribution in the way of analysis. It is merely this episode that I highlighted that gave me some real tangible action, for which I cannot determine a town motive, which puts you right up there with Storyteller on my suspiciometer.
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Blaster Master
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 11:01:48 GMT -5
*Ground Control to Major Tom Picard* Welcome back out of Math Vendetta orbit. It is good to see you playing the same game as the rest of us again. Haha... I like to play both aspects of the game. It's just unfortunate that there's no math involved here. BTW, do you have any comments on this?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 4, 2007 11:23:43 GMT -5
I have been looking at drain, but she seems to fall into a couple of my blindspots: "me too" votes and Night-killer profiling. All that can really be said about "me too" votes is to call them as you see them. We've both certainly done so in her case. I said earlier that I've seen both scum and town play the profiling game from many different directions, so I am hesitant to use such statements unless it is part of a bigger case against someone. Noticing that she is in two of my blindspots certainly doesn't make me me inclined to believe or trust her very much though.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Oct 4, 2007 11:25:48 GMT -5
I have said twice now, why I find Hockey suspicious. It was in Day Two and once in Day One. But mostly it's this: She has been on most of all the early bandwagons. She, in Day One, felt great about voting a one off vote. She, in Day One, seemed fine with jumping on yet another person just to get them to claim (her words). And if these things weren't enough, I just get a feeling of scum vibe from her. I could be totally off and wrong but I just can't ignore what I observe or feel and the combination of the two. Could it be possible that the person who would have been attacked by the one panama alledges he was attacked by had not failed this time, but was meant to be successful and was blocked by wtf? I've already explained why I voted the way I did. Don't even try to single me out for being on bandwagons. There were 5 Bandwagons on Day One - Zumachan, CIAS, Roosh, Dnooman, and Mad Idle Thoughts - 4/5 CIAS - 4/5 drainbead - 4/5 pygmyrugger - 4/5 FCOD - 4/5 hockeymonkey - 4/5 greedysmurf - 3/5 storyteller - 3/5 BlasterMaster - 3/5 dnooman - 3/5 Roosh - 3/5 I was hardly alone in my uncertainty was I? I didn't feel great about my one-off vote, but I didn't think zumachan was scum. I changed my mind on a position I had voiced earlier. If I had dropped the hammer on zumachan, you would be calling for my head over that. I was not fine with jumping on someone else to get them to claim. I can't find the post now, but I know I had a brief conversation with Cookies about what I meant. Unless you can bring up a post where I said that, which you can't, I'm chalking that up to a non-argument as well. As for your general vibe of scumminess you get from me...well I can't argue that with you. You feel how you feel. I get those general vibes from people as well, but you need to bring something else to the table to back up your assertion that I'm scummy or back off. That goes for BlasterBat, and Diomedes as well. Bring a valid arguement for my scumminess or stop with the drive by smudgings.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Oct 4, 2007 11:34:52 GMT -5
How do you know that zeriel was killed by a group and not by a solo artist? I don't. I just always learned when referring to groups or He/She/It scenarios it's proper english to just use "They" :shrug: I'll try to be more careful next time??? Or I'll just keep using They most likely. Me thinks it good grammer.
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Blaster Master
Mome Rath
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Post by Blaster Master on Oct 4, 2007 11:43:00 GMT -5
I didn't feel great about my one-off vote, but I didn't think zumachan was scum. I changed my mind on a position I had voiced earlier. If I had dropped the hammer on zumachan, you would be calling for my head over that. I was not fine with jumping on someone else to get them to claim. I can't find the post now, but I know I had a brief conversation with Cookies about what I meant. Unless you can bring up a post where I said that, which you can't, I'm chalking that up to a non-argument as well. As for your general vibe of scumminess you get from me...well I can't argue that with you. You feel how you feel. I get those general vibes from people as well, but you need to bring something else to the table to back up your assertion that I'm scummy or back off. That goes for BlasterBat, and Diomedes as well. Bring a valid arguement for my scumminess or stop with the drive by smudgings. I would not be calling for your head had you voted for Dotchan on Day One. In fact, if you recall, I had said that I was disinclined to vote for Dotchan, but I voted for her because there was still a non-zero chance she was scum, she was more likely to be scum than I thought the other was at the time (though I'm reconsidering my evaluation of Cat), and there was a ton of information to be gained. Meanwhile, you had offered to be the hammer, then changed your mind. FWIW, I don't consider anything I've said about you to be smudges because I've openly expressed suspicion of you. Would you feel better if I adopted the convention of using orange font and a big FOS? Smudging, IMO, is generally a more nuanced attempt to spread suspicion about someone without actually expressing suspicion. FTR, there could be townie reasons for your Day One vote, and that's exactly why you're not number one on my list. At least, I'm more inclined to see your vote as a townie than Storyteller's. However, if you want a more substantial case, I'll make it when I'm prepared to put my vote on you. Until then, I'll continue to simply point things out as I see them so that they can be referenced later in a collection For instance, I find your hyper-defensiveness suspicious. Why are you so worried about being able to defend yourself when you're clearly not the number-one target of those expressing the most suspicion in you? Why are you so defensive when you don't even have a vote?
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