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Post by Renata on Apr 13, 2011 11:45:38 GMT -5
My case against Septimus, in #136, had three parts: - lots of scummy play - I believed his role is as claimed but couldn't see a Town use for it - his interpretation of his role as the Robin Hood of Scooby-Doo and the request to players who need snacks to identify themselves given his own concerns that they'd become juicy targets for scum The incorporation of the Town Advisor's nightly suggestion on who should receive the snacks partially addresses the second part of my vote, not the other two. However, doesn't it seem like a pretty extravagant method of giving a couple of snacks a Day to someone who may or may not need them and may or may not be scum? It really would require the Town Advisor to have some sort of investigative power (or to be an amazing player, which Bill is) to make it worthwhile, we won't know. Yes it would. Without that (and especially given how Septimus was at one point describing it, as a one-shot deal), it's an awkward fit for a town role. With advice from some sort of informed advisor, it makes perfect sense as a way to get snacks to whoever might need them without the recipient needing to be revealed publicly. This objection I don't understand, really. FCOD's mechanism issue was a real problem. For Septimus, the default assumption would be "PM the mod with your request", which doesn't really require to be spelled out. Maybe a teeny-tiny issue with him not confirming that he doesn't send them directly himself, but that's *very* teeny.
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 11:56:15 GMT -5
Bill's game related Day 1 posts: and another question. since we seem to have more than our usual number of first timers (at least to this board) do we spend the first day(s) going over the standard crap or assume that everyone read the syllabus? As the newbs have probably noticed, Peeker is our resident grump. He's harmless, unless he is scum of course. With 22, probably 4 or 5 scum. And of course the Butler did it, those pesky kids! Unless there is a caretaker, cook, fairground owner, or any other one the usual suspects in scooby doo And the most immediate question from the opening color - where's Daphne! yaknow these are are good questions, kind of. i would add: does everyone have them? how many do folks have? are they limited to a certain alignment? the name implies that they would be wanted by scooby (who i assume will be in this game) but is that necessarily true? do they power someone up? if so is this power an additional action or increased effectiveness of an allready possessed action (this would include voting)? are they consumable (i.e. they get used and then go away)? or does something happen when someone gets all/a majority/some number of snacks? are they a total red herring meant for us to go down the bunny hole by mods who seem to be increasingly measuring the success of their games by making the group engage in a whole bunch of botty* showing and by the degree that they accomplish a collective chain yank? Well from the rules.. Players will start the game with an allotment of Scooby Snacks. Scooby Snacks have various purposes and if players wish to give them to another player, the Snacks will be traded openly in the game threads by posting in bold purple. For example Give 2 Snacks to Julie. A tally of publicly traded Snacks so far in the Day will be reported with each official vote count (e.g. "Julie: +2 Snacks), though players are welcome to keep their own tallies. Each Day, players will be notified by the moderator via PM if new Snacks have been added to their accounts overNight. The supply of Snacks may end without warning. It would seem to imply that everyone has some snacks, or is capable of having snacks. Julie stated that everyone received a role msg and a scooby snacks msg. Obviously one or more players have a use for the snacks. Since exchanges are made in public, snacks that folk receive at night must be by some other method -- and that the supply of snacks may end. This may imply that through action or inaction, the supply will stop - or maybe the hotel chef is making them (since the opening color said the hotel made the best scooby snacks) Financial year end - so life is rather hectic. So Ed's performance stems from this: And the most immediate question from the opening color - where's Daphne! Good catch. I expect she's been kidnapped, tied up, gagged and left imprisoned yelling "Scooby-Doo! Where are you?!", as usual. So a comment on the color, and a typical scooby doo response (tho I was going to ask how she can be yelling while gagged!) So not even a discussion on whether color is just color, or whether color is meaningful. In most games where the color does have meaning, the Mod is kind enough to state this upfront. Yet, in addition to his meta-game assault on Pinkies he takes this as fishing trip. Should we then take Mental Guy's post as fishing for whether there is a butler or bellhop in the game? Checking in. Could someone get my luggage, please. Or double meanings in everything? As for Ed's meta-game assault on Pinkies, I'm in total agreement with Story (Yes I know I rarely agree with him :-) ) I am extremely uncomfortable with this approach to the game. I think there are people with playstyles that I find to be unhelpful and even unpleasant, and I'm sure there are people who feel the same of me. Basing votes, lynches, or Vig kills (as you have obliquely suggested) on that sort of thing - rather than on what's likely and happening in the current game - is both unlikely to generate a good outcome and very likely to be incredibly unfun. That said, Pinkies name claim seems out of place. A name claim in general means nothing - unless there is someone else looking for that particular character. Back to our damsel in distresss.. The comment I find curious is the following: 5. Regarding the location of Daphne. I think it's probably best not to comment because that way the Scum won't know if I know where she is or not." Ed, why do you think scum need to worry about whether you know where Daphne is or not? This comment just seems to me to possibly contain a bit too much knowledge about the scum team's operations. I think this is enough for an early Day 1 vote. Vote Special Ed
way to take things out of context. I was commenting on everything that has happened in the game. Some people spoke about the whereabouts of Daphne. I chose to note the comment and not add to it for I don't see it benefiting Town and potentially hurting Town. See, other people were talking about it. I was commenting on their comments. Actually, more to the point, I was pointing out that other people were commenting on it and indicating that such comments are not beneficial. So at this point, apart from my original comment, no one had made any comment about the location of Daphne, indeed, whether it was even important, yet you felt the need to call it out in #5 - your comment would appear to confirm color is not just color, and that Daphne not being in the color is important. So you are leaking PIS here. As echoed by MG The only discussion of Daphne before your comment was BillMc mentioning that she was not in the opening color and Guiri speculating that she had been kidnapped as she often is in the show. There had been no discussion of what this might mean in the game, and definitely no discussion about her location possibly being important. So what comments about Daphne were you trying to point out were not beneficial? And Ed's response: Just curious, why did I post that 15 point list of all the activity n the game up until then? Oh, yeah, it was because it was pointed out that I wasn't commenting on the happenings in the game. So I commented on every significant event that had happened in the game. Including the comments about Daphne. Vote: Special Ed A vote for me isn't bad. I am Daphne, and I'm a miller type of role. It appears that my only power is the ability to be kidnapped. I doubt that it's beneficial to Town anyway. Underlining mine - so a simple statement that Daphne was not in the color, and that Guiri quoted canon was a significant event? So Ed has a little bandwagon going on him at this point for his attack on Pinkies, he claims, then says he's not beneficial to town - "dont lynch me i'm down but useless" and even goes on to say later his power his anti-town. and to be clear, when I say I'm a miller type role, I doubt that I'll investigate as Scum. My intention was to point out that my 'power' is probably anti-Town, and as such, removing me from the game might not be a bad thing. A nice wifom statement- he may investigate as town, or he may not - and with the ever present possibility of a scum watcher, then the town cop would be making a high risk move to investigate him -- and even if the cop did, and found him scummy, he could wiggle and say it was part of his miller like role -- lots of wiggle room there. In your response to Guiri, again you make the assumption that color is not just color - egocentric indeed. In numerous games I have appeared in the color after I am dead - should folk take that as significant, that I've been resurrected? of course not. The only person that brought attention to Daphne was yourself with your #5 on your list. @ Special, given your claim and the additional knowledge, what do you make of Bill's question about Daphne's whereabouts, my response based on canon, and MentalGuy's PIS accusation? Bill's question surprised me. Probably it was an egocentric thing, but it reality, it was quite apparent that she was missing from the introduction. Now, it's possible that he was trying to get an indication of who Daphne was either for Scum or Town purposes. I certainly wouldn't put it past him. He does occasionally have posts related to game color though that really have no significance, but he's also very astute and her absence might be something that stuck out for him. When, you, guiri responded and brought up kidnapping, my intial thought was that it was a PIS leak and you were either Scum or Town with knowledge that my kidnapping was possible. Then, I realized that you would probably been too smart and catious of a player to let that slip. So, I began to think that you were jsut breadcrumbing to me that you were going to be able to intervene in my kidnapping. (I am aware that certain Town players can do that.) So I'm unsure of your knowledge at this point. I had been contemplating how to breadcrumb my role, but then just decided to claim before I had decided. Mental Guy's PIS accusation really rubbed me the wrong way. I think, someone unaware of the importance of my role would have just glossed over it, especially buried deep within all of my other comments. So I'm leaning towards Scum on his part. So...scummy slip or town foot in mouth? So MG indicates he has further knowledge about Daphne I don't know why, but I do know that Daphne can be kidnapped and I know that her location could be important. I will say that it is possible that once she has been kidnapped, she can be found. So I assume her kidnapping just removes her from the game for a while. This could be viewed as supporting Ed's townie claim, or it could be viewed as an elaborate handshake. Which brings me to this: 2. I will bet a shiny nickel on the following proposition: if Ed is Town, at least one of the players who have voted for Ed so far is Scum. An emerging theory that a given player should be lynched whether Town or Scum? A theory that ensures zero accountability for anyone voting for that player? A theory advanced by that player himself? No. No way do all the Scum stay away. And if Ed is Scum, I think it very likely that at least one among his voters is Scum, too. This action was too big, too pervasive, and too much of a clear storyline for the Scum to remain entirely uninvolved. So: my next project is to take a look at the bandwagon on Ed, and figure out what happened and who looks better/worse upon closer examination. If Ed is town, then one of his voters is likely scum. If Ed is scum, then one of his voters is likely scum. Thus someone voting for Ed is likely scum. As someone who often quotes the rules to other folk, this post seems out of place - such a tactic has been used in the past to buy time for writing fake claims yes, and it was quite apparent to me that they knew it beforehand. Can we post our role PMs? Can we post other PMs from the moderator?[/color][/quote] Romanic does seem to have a pre-occupation with getting scooby snacks - town or scum motivation? unclear. So where does that leave us? I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins But the post that sticks out most to me is this one: Just getting this on the record. If I weren't voting for Ed I'd be voting for Renata. I don't like the case against Paranoia because it seems pretty clear to me that his statement was illogical. In the early days of the game town is more likely to make inconsistencies like that because they are not watching every word they're saying, having nothing to hide. It seems like an excuse to make a vote. "I want to be known that if we mislynch Ed, Renata was my second choice" - don't like this at all Vote: Archangel [/color] [/quote]
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 11:57:52 GMT -5
For the record, it seems as if Bill really didn't trust me: "I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins"
So why would he advise septimus to transfer Scooby Snakcks to me?
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 12:10:29 GMT -5
that was a long post.
And it did take quite some time to get all the nested quotes in there by hand.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 12:20:53 GMT -5
Regarding septimus, the decision seems very simple. But septimus comes from Thailand, as everyone knows, and Thailand is entirely peopled Buddhist people, and Buddhists are used to having people not trust them (because really, who can be that gentle? c'mon...), as he is not trusted by me, so I can clearly not believe his claim. are you serious about this? this is irrelevant especially since he only retired to thailand. he worked in silicon valley so he may well be american. (N2.34) it seems to me that he is just frustrated with how he has played his role. it feels like he thinks he spoiled julie's scooby snack idea and wants out. i get the sense that those who voted for him are either frustrated with his method of answering questions or think he is a bumbling scum. does he make you wish he would just shut up? does what he say not really add up or is he just unable to articulate well? i don't get the feeling he's a badly-played scum. i'm willing to let this go one more Day and see what develops. furthermore, aren't cap, idle and joanie anti-town for hardly if at all contributing? i'm not convinced that septimus is scum. based on his post about thailand and his 'weak' reaction to FCOD's pronouncements, i Vote Suburban Plankton
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 12:25:06 GMT -5
are you serious about this? We need a new smiley for situations like this
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Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 13, 2011 12:26:03 GMT -5
Regarding septimus, the decision seems very simple.
But septimus comes from Thailand, as everyone knows, and Thailand is entirely peopled Buddhist people, and Buddhists are used to having people not trust them (because really, who can be that gentle? c'mon...), as he is not trusted by me, so I can clearly not believe his claim.
are you serious about this? this is irrelevant especially since he only retired to thailand. he worked in silicon valley so he may well be american. (N2.34) it seems to me that he is just frustrated with how he has played his role. it feels like he thinks he spoiled julie's scooby snack idea and wants out. i get the sense that those who voted for him are either frustrated with his method of answering questions or think he is a bumbling scum. does he make you wish he would just shut up? does what he say not really add up or is he just unable to articulate well? i don't get the feeling he's a badly-played scum. i'm willing to let this go one more Day and see what develops. furthermore, aren't cap, idle and joanie anti-town for hardly if at all contributing? i'm not convinced that septimus is scum. based on his post about thailand and his 'weak' reaction to FCOD's pronouncements, i Vote Suburban PlanktonHave you ever seen The Princess Bride? I am 100% certain that Plankton did not intend any of that quoted sentence seriously.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 13, 2011 12:26:29 GMT -5
are you serious about this? We need a new smiley for situations like this I think this one: is the appropriate one.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 12:28:35 GMT -5
are you serious about this? We need a new smiley for situations like this he was probably joking but my being suspicious about SP made this so not funny. OOG/ nice quotes by the way. i can imagine you had to open multiple windows to do this. i'm still getting an EDucation in this game. /OOG
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 12:29:40 GMT -5
We need a new smiley for situations like this I think this one: is the appropriate one. I was thinking more of an airplane flying high over the smiley
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Post by BobArrgh on Apr 13, 2011 12:39:37 GMT -5
@ Ed: I have to admit I'm impressed you did all that quoting correctly. Regarding Septimus, I just re-read all his posts from the time he claimed, and I couldn't find the reference to his power being a "one-shot" kind of thing, but I seem to recall that there was an implication that it was. Anyway, in regards to it being a one-shot kind of thing, it could be that he meant "being advised at Night" was the one-shot thing, given that the Town Adviser is out of the game. So far this game, we have had two elaborate claims: one from FCoD and one from Septimus. Even though I was wrong on a significant aspect of FCoD's claim, I still thought the whole thing smelled fishy. However, I don't get the same ping from Septimus' claim. I think Septimus is telling the truth. Give 1 Scooby Snack to SeptimusPersonally, I think that Suburban Plankton was really trying to spread the WIFOM, in the absolute truest sense of the phrase. I know he might have been joking, but it just seems too over-the-top, to me. Perhaps he might have needed a smiley face there. Regardless of whether or not Burby was joking, I'm not buying his case on Septimus. I'm also getting seriously pinged Guiri for the same case. Vote Suburban Plankton
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 12:40:54 GMT -5
We need a new smiley for situations like this I think this one: is the appropriate one. it doesn't affect the logic of my vote. SP's posts are more suspicious than Septimus' posts. oh, i have seen princess bride and monthy python and other stuff talked about here. i just don't memorize the lines. i have other things in RL to do.
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 12:44:44 GMT -5
i have other things in RL to do. what's RL?
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 12:50:23 GMT -5
i have other things in RL to do. what's RL? Real Life, as opposed to life online.
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 12:56:41 GMT -5
Real Life, as opposed to life online. I tried to go outside once, but nothing happened when I double clicked on my door
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Post by LightFoot on Apr 13, 2011 13:06:24 GMT -5
I don't see how it can hurt or help but I did "receive 1 Scooby Snack from a mysterious source. "
No way for me to tell if it helps anyone. OR where it came from. really? None of mine have come from a mysterious source After reading septimus being advised to pass you some and not doing so-- the comment above came back to me. Were you expecting someone to ? Do you have more information?
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 13:15:44 GMT -5
really? None of mine have come from a mysterious source After reading septimus being advised to pass you some and not doing so-- the comment above came back to me. Were you expecting someone to ? Do you have more information? no. I was confused at that point which should be apparent if you read all of my posts from around that time. I didn't realize you were discussing Scooby Snacks from septimus. I thought you were discussing them in general. My PM said nothing about mysterious sources, so I thought your claim of mysterious sources was odd. Then I realized that you were talking about getting them from septimus, and not in the ordinary 'be told how many you have' way.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 13:15:49 GMT -5
Real Life, as opposed to life online. I tried to go outside once, but nothing happened when I double clicked on my door maybe your door needed a password first.
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 13:17:58 GMT -5
I tried to go outside once, but nothing happened when I double clicked on my door maybe your door needed a password first. You know, someone did give me a security key, but it didn't have a code on it. It's just an irregularly shaped piece of metal. It wouldn't fit in a usb slot either.
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Post by LightFoot on Apr 13, 2011 13:24:04 GMT -5
@ Ed just checking. The comment came back to me. I recall your confusion, but sometimes confusion can cause slipped information too.
( grinning at the banter @ your door )
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Post by gnarlycharlie on Apr 13, 2011 13:30:50 GMT -5
maybe your door needed a password first. You know, someone did give me a security key, but it didn't have a code on it. It's just an irregularly shaped piece of metal. It wouldn't fit in a usb slot either. hmmm... you'll have to stay in there for a while then until you uncover the answer to the mystery. too bad you can't translate you're skills here to this problem.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Apr 13, 2011 13:32:38 GMT -5
And, for the moment, I am going to:
Unvote: Septimus Vote: Suburban Plankton
Not because I find the Princess Bride WiFoM thing completely over-the-top, because I think it's pretty in-character for SP, but for all the reasons discussed back on pages two and three, I think, of toDay. And yesterday's situation with FCOD. And basically all the reasons I voted him earlier toDay.
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Post by Renata on Apr 13, 2011 13:44:23 GMT -5
@ EdRegardless of whether or not Burby was joking, I'm not buying his case on Septimus. I'm also getting seriously pinged Guiri for the same case. What exactly about SP's post (besides the over-the-top silliness) pings you? What about Guiri's?
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Post by Renata on Apr 13, 2011 13:52:31 GMT -5
For the record, it seems as if Bill really didn't trust me: "I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins" So why would he advise septimus to transfer Scooby Snakcks to me? Don't ask me to understand Bill, please; I'm incapable. I think that advising snacks to be given to you would be the most sensible thing in the situation as implied by Septimus' PM; Bill's comments don't suggest any strong alternative; and that's as far as I can go. (You still haven't said why you are passing snacks as you are.) Though it's slightly speculative, note also that Bill bread-crumbed his role as Butler (twice, at that) and also mentioned that there must be a different mechanism for getting snacks at night. Rules: "Each Day, players will be notified by the moderator via PM if new Snacks have been added to their accounts overNight. The supply of Snacks may end without warning." Bill: "Since exchanges are made in public, snacks that folk receive at night must be by some other method -- and that the supply of snacks may end. " Does this, or does this not make sense for someone whose role is related to the passing of snacks in the night time, and who might reasonably wonder if his role is the only way by which such night passing might occur?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 13, 2011 13:55:50 GMT -5
I started typing this reply to Renata's Post 179 a coupe hours ago, then got interrupted by an impromptu meeting. I see that there have been quite a few posts in the meantime, but I'm going to post this reply here then go back and reread the subsequent posts... So, how did Bill know that Ed is Town? It doesn't make any sense that Bill could have discovered information about Ed and passed along his advice to septimus in the same Night. Was Bill given that information at the start of the game? That seems to make for an awfully powerful combination of Powers. This is just ridiculous, SP, and does not improve my opinion of you. By the end of day one, Mental Guy and Ed were the consensus townies, and MG the more likely of the two to be targeted by scum. Ergo -- Ed is left. There is no mystery here at all, and I think you are just stirring the pot. Let's for the moment assume that Ed and MentalGuy were in fact 'consensus Townies'. You're saying that Bill: a) went along with the consensus b) felt that Ed was the best candidate for receiving Scooby Snacks, even though nobody even knows what they were for c) felt strongly enough about b) that he felt compelled to advise septimus to transfer snaks to Ed Looking at Bill's posts on Day 1, I don't see anything that indicates he strongly agreed with a). The 'bottom line' from Bill was this I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. I'm not prepared to go from that statement to "septimus, you should give Scooby Snacks to Ed" And yet he's using Bill's 'advice' and the fact that Bill was town to support his own Towniness. And he did pass Snacks to both Ed and MentalGuy (the 'consensus Townies' on Day 2. You know, you're partially correct here. This has nothing directly to do with septimus; it's more an exploration of the connection between Bill and Ed. But because septimus claim is linked to both of those players ( D2-227) I think it's inaccurate to say there is no connection at all. "Exert some force"? If you want someone to kill me Tonight, why not just come straight out and say "will someone please Vig SP Tonight?"
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Post by Renata on Apr 13, 2011 13:57:48 GMT -5
And, for the moment, I am going to: Unvote: Septimus [/color] Vote: Suburban Plankton [/color] Not because I find the Princess Bride WiFoM thing completely over-the-top, because I think it's pretty in-character for SP, but for all the reasons discussed back on pages two and three, I think, of toDay. And yesterday's situation with FCOD. And basically all the reasons I voted him earlier toDay.[/quote] That explains voting SP the first time; it doesn't explain unvoting Septimus. What's persuasive to you that led you to do that?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 13, 2011 13:57:47 GMT -5
Posting as I catch up... For the record, it seems as if Bill really didn't trust me: "I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins" So why would he advise septimus to transfer Scooby Snakcks to me? I had this exact question written down. And since we can't ask Bill, the only person who can give insight into this is septimus, since he's the only living person who claims to have seen this correspondence.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 13, 2011 14:00:03 GMT -5
Regarding septimus, the decision seems very simple. But septimus comes from Thailand, as everyone knows, and Thailand is entirely peopled Buddhist people, and Buddhists are used to having people not trust them (because really, who can be that gentle? c'mon...), as he is not trusted by me, so I can clearly not believe his claim. are you serious about this? No, not in the slightest. I take it you haven't seen The Princess Bride, and specifically the scene from which we got the acronym WIFOM (Wine In front Of Me)?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Apr 13, 2011 14:01:47 GMT -5
oh, i have seen princess bride and monthy python and other stuff talked about here. i just don't memorize the lines. i have other things in RL to do. You need to get your priorities straight
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Post by special on Apr 13, 2011 14:07:35 GMT -5
For the record, it seems as if Bill really didn't trust me: "I'm inclined to believe Ed, but by only the smallest of margins" So why would he advise septimus to transfer Scooby Snakcks to me? Don't ask me to understand Bill, please; I'm incapable. I think that advising snacks to be given to you would be the most sensible thing in the situation as implied by Septimus' PM; Bill's comments don't suggest any strong alternative; and that's as far as I can go. (You still haven't said why you are passing snacks as you are.) Though it's slightly speculative, note also that Bill bread-crumbed his role as Butler (twice, at that) and also mentioned that there must be a different mechanism for getting snacks at night. Rules: "Each Day, players will be notified by the moderator via PM if new Snacks have been added to their accounts overNight. The supply of Snacks may end without warning." Bill: "Since exchanges are made in public, snacks that folk receive at night must be by some other method -- and that the supply of snacks may end. " Does this, or does this not make sense for someone whose role is related to the passing of snacks in the night time, and who might reasonably wonder if his role is the only way by which such night passing might occur? I agree with what you're saying here. Bill's discussion of the methods of snack distribution does lessen my suspicion of septimus. I will also note that I haven't given any explanation for my pattern of distributing snacks. I do not intend to at this time.
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