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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 8:49:59 GMT -5
And forgive me if I'm missing something re computer programming language. Would a lie detector be able to evaluate Cat's statement "$Alignment=Town" as a statement indicating Cat's alignment is town? (There's no pronoun there.)
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Post by CatInASuit on May 4, 2011 9:16:24 GMT -5
And forgive me if I'm missing something re computer programming language. Would a lie detector be able to evaluate Cat's statement "$Alignment=Town" as a statement indicating Cat's alignment is town? (There's no pronoun there.) Skimming is a scum tell Try #D1.104
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 4, 2011 9:24:53 GMT -5
As for Ace093, I actually agree in principle with his desire to remain silent on the matter. I tend to play the game close to the vest with regards to my own role, so I can sympathize with his reluctance to reveal information "just because everyone else is doing it". That being said, there is a time to stand on principle, and there is a time to 'give' a bit. With several days remaining before Dusk, I think it remains to be seen which sort of time this is. I'm bothered by your phrase "there is a time to stand on principle, and there is is a time to 'give' a bit." You seem to be discounting the possibility that ace just doesn't want to lie. In other words, you seem to know what ace would say (i.e., that he is town) and think he just doesn't want to go along with the crowd. vote Suburban PlanktonMe, I think ace's refusal to state that (s)he is Town is sufficient to warrant a Day One vote. If ace happened to draw Scum as a first-time player, being suddenly confronted with this lie detector thing and everyone shouting "I am Town" could well have made him/her nervous - to a first time Scum, it could seem like an impossible trap to escape. Declining with some vague language about "not revealing information" is a reasonable reaction for Scum in such a situation. Vote: Ace Though, if ace is indeed Town, squink's point regarding Plankton is compelling, too. You'll both note I said that I agree in principle, which implies (albeit silently) that I don't necessarily agree in practice with ace's play. I very much dislike being 'forced' to reveal information about my role before I am prepared to do so, so I can understand ace's reluctance in this situation. Nevertheless, I chose to reveal my alignment Today, because I don't think this is a case where it's beneficial to 'stand on principle'. As others have pointed out, nothing is actually 'revealed' by saying "I am Town"; this is the 'default claim' in every case. So I don't agree with ace's decision in this instance. But he hasn't posted since his refusal to 'play along', so I'm willing to wait until he does before I consider changing my vote.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 10:02:16 GMT -5
And forgive me if I'm missing something re computer programming language. Would a lie detector be able to evaluate Cat's statement "$Alignment=Town" as a statement indicating Cat's alignment is town? (There's no pronoun there.) Skimming is a scum tell Try #D1.104No, skimming is an Archangel tell. Thank you for the link, I did apparently miss the end of that post (probably because I didn't understand the beginning, which is a bad habit).
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 4, 2011 10:03:04 GMT -5
just for the record, Ace is female. she said so in Night 0. i don't know why her profile says male.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 4, 2011 10:06:53 GMT -5
Sex-changes are a Scum tell ;D
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 4, 2011 10:22:17 GMT -5
Good Morning Vote Count
ace093 (3,3): Special Ed [80], gnarlycharlie [97], storyteller0910 [115] BillMc (1,1): Suburban Plankton [93] CatInaSuit (1,1): colby11 [102] colby11 (1,1): CatInaSuit [110] Suburban Plankton (1,1): metallicsquink [111] gnarlycharlie (0,1): Suburban Plankton [79,93]
With these votes, ace093 will be lynched.
Breakdown: person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in, post unvoted]
In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 4, 2011 10:26:05 GMT -5
You'll both note I said that I agree in principle, which implies (albeit silently) that I don't necessarily agree in practice with ace's play. I very much dislike being 'forced' to reveal information about my role before I am prepared to do so, so I can understand ace's reluctance in this situation. Nevertheless, I chose to reveal my alignment Today, because I don't think this is a case where it's beneficial to 'stand on principle'. As others have pointed out, nothing is actually 'revealed' by saying "I am Town"; this is the 'default claim' in every case. So I don't agree with ace's decision in this instance. But he hasn't posted since his refusal to 'play along', so I'm willing to wait until he does before I consider changing my vote. The way I see it, there is no reason to excuse her hesitation which is why I am confused that you would do it. You are even saying yourself that you do not agree with her play in this case and yet are willing to wait and see what she does. To me the issue here is not whether or not she comes in and says "I am town", it's the hesitation in the first place (which you are defending). And given the phrasing of your initial post defending this play, it seemed to me that you are not accounting for the fact that she may not want to post "I am town" because it could be a lie. And just to be clear, I see a distinct difference between revealing your role and revealing your alignment. Obviously no one is asking ace to reveal her role. Making a statement about your alignment is not harmful to town in this case. Making a false statement about your alignment is harmful, but only to yourself and perhaps that is what she is contemplating. I think I've convinced myself that ace's play is scummier than yours, although I still think your defense of her is suspicious. unvote Suburban Planktonvote ace093
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 4, 2011 10:30:14 GMT -5
Sex-changes are a Scum tell ;D ha ha ha! agreed.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 10:32:35 GMT -5
Vote Storyteller
I feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. This is a third vote on a growing bandwagon for a statement that I believe is attributable to her being a new player.
(Ace, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is your third game? And in the first 2 you were scum?)
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Post by metallicsquink on May 4, 2011 10:37:23 GMT -5
Vote StorytellerI feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. This is a third vote on a growing bandwagon for a statement that I believe is attributable to her being a new player. (Ace, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is your third game? And in the first 2 you were scum?) I don't think we can say what we think the scum would or would not do. There is also the possibility that she is a third party. Again, I think these assumptions that ace doesn't want to say "I am town" because she is town is a slippery slope.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 10:44:04 GMT -5
Vote StorytellerI feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. This is a third vote on a growing bandwagon for a statement that I believe is attributable to her being a new player. (Ace, correct me if I'm wrong, but this is your third game? And in the first 2 you were scum?) I don't think we can say what we think the scum would or would not do. There is also the possibility that she is a third party. Again, I think these assumptions that ace doesn't want to say "I am town" because she is town is a slippery slope. Good point that she may be third party. That doesn't lessen my suspicion of Storyteller, however. If Storyteller is third party, scum wouldn't know that, and she'd be a safe bandwagon for them. (And I do believe that we can say scum would advise her how to answer that question without looking scummy if she's scum.) Your third party comment rings very true, though. Now I have to decide if I should vote possible (skewing towards likely) third party or possible (to me, skewing towards likely) scum.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 4, 2011 10:51:57 GMT -5
I feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. ... would they, now? How?
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 10:55:30 GMT -5
I feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. ... would they, now? How? On the scum boards? The existence of which is customary in these games and implied in the rules?
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 4, 2011 10:56:14 GMT -5
Can Scum talk during the Day in this game?
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Post by LightFoot on May 4, 2011 10:57:44 GMT -5
Was Peeker found? (He went missing in the last game and a lot of people were concerned.) I would really like to know too.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 10:58:03 GMT -5
Can Scum talk during the Day in this game? I have no idea, but I can't remember the last game I played/watched where scum was unable to talk during the day.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 4, 2011 10:59:05 GMT -5
Can Scum talk during the Day in this game? I have no idea, but I can't remember the last game I played/watched where scum was unable to talk during the day. ...fair enough. Many of the games I play have involved non-Day-talking Scum, and I default to that assumption in cases where it's not specified, but I can't really fault you for making the opposite assumption if your experience has been different. Carry on.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 4, 2011 10:59:55 GMT -5
But while we're on the subject:
Can the Scum talk (to one another, privately) during the Day?
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 4, 2011 11:13:20 GMT -5
But while we're on the subject: Can the Scum talk (to one another, privately) during the Day?the rules imply there is communication outside this thread but are silent as to when such communication is possible, ie Night, Day or both.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 4, 2011 11:24:47 GMT -5
<snip> If Storyteller is third party, scum wouldn't know that, and she'd be a safe bandwagon for them. <snip> I'm not sure I understand the above part of your post. How does storyteller being third party affect a bandwagon?
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 11:27:38 GMT -5
<snip> If Storyteller is third party, scum wouldn't know that, and she'd be a safe bandwagon for them. <snip> I'm not sure I understand the above part of your post. How does storyteller being third party affect a bandwagon? I'm sorry, that is just a typo. I meant if Ace is third party, scum wouldn't know that, and she'd be a safe bandwagon for them.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 4, 2011 11:29:09 GMT -5
I'm not sure I understand the above part of your post. How does storyteller being third party affect a bandwagon? I'm sorry, that is just a typo. I meant if Ace is third party, scum wouldn't know that, and she'd be a safe bandwagon for them. I see. Thanks.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 4, 2011 11:36:43 GMT -5
I think I've convinced myself that ace's play is scummier than yours, although I still think your defense of her is suspicious. unvote Suburban Planktonvote ace093I haven't defended ace's play. I've said that I understand her motivation (assuming she's being truthful), but I don't agree with her play in this case. I'm not voting for her at the moment because I'm voting for Bill, who is doing essentially the same thing as ace. ace has declined to make a statement about her alignment. Bill has said "My alignment is Town and I'll be away wed+thu". In neither case is there anything that our hypothetical lie-detector can draw from their 'statements'. ace has given us nothing to evaluate, and Bill has given us something which cannot be evaluated at this time. I find Bill's statement more suspicious than ace's non-statement because it looks like he's saying "My alignment is Town", but he's really not. Whereas ace is coming right out and saying "I'm not telling". I'll note that neither has posted again since making those 'claims'. Assuming that they do post again Today, and that they each address this issue, that will likely affect my final vote for the Day.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 11:43:53 GMT -5
Unvote Storyteller
on the grounds that he seems to have been genuinely trying to catch me in a scum slip, which is pro-town, and
Vote Ace
because out of the 3 possible scenarios
(her being town who is opposed to revealing too much on principle, her being scum who doesn't know what to do when everyone else is mass-claiming alignment, and her being 3rd party)
the latter seems the most likely to me.
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Post by fluiddruid on May 4, 2011 11:50:15 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't argue with a slam dunk.
vote Ace
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Post by fluiddruid on May 4, 2011 11:56:01 GMT -5
I feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. This is a third vote on a growing bandwagon for a statement that I believe is attributable to her being a new player. Why would scum push a bandwagon now? It's Day 1. Odds are, we're going to hit Town, and there's no real imminent threat of a lynch to anyone besides Ace. Plus, of course, you're assuming here that 1) day communication is happening and 2) that Ace consulted with anyone else. Sometimes a newbie is going to make newbie plays and I can see how, to a new player, it wouldn't seem like a big deal to lightly push back with a "hmm, I don't know, doesn't seem like a good idea, I won't for now" kind of post. Besides which, I read what Ace wrote. While I won't argue that Ace's lack of experience likely has a lot to do with what was posted, why would Ace decide to buck the trend of claims if a Townie? In my experience, newbie Town players are inclined to look agreeable, particularly early on, as the path of least resistance. I'm wagering Ace thought it would be easier to decline now (and hope for some agreement) than to not respond and be called to task for it later.
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Post by Rysto on May 4, 2011 12:07:56 GMT -5
Just checking in to say that am I following the game. Also, I am Town.
I should be back with substantive comments tonight.
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Post by Archangel on May 4, 2011 12:12:35 GMT -5
I feel his vote on Ace is disingenious. If she is scum she will have scum buddies telling her that not claiming town in this situation would make her look scummy. This is a third vote on a growing bandwagon for a statement that I believe is attributable to her being a new player. Why would scum push a bandwagon now? It's Day 1. Odds are, we're going to hit Town, and there's no real imminent threat of a lynch to anyone besides Ace. Plus, of course, you're assuming here that 1) day communication is happening and 2) that Ace consulted with anyone else. Sometimes a newbie is going to make newbie plays and I can see how, to a new player, it wouldn't seem like a big deal to lightly push back with a "hmm, I don't know, doesn't seem like a good idea, I won't for now" kind of post. Besides which, I read what Ace wrote. While I won't argue that Ace's lack of experience likely has a lot to do with what was posted, why would Ace decide to buck the trend of claims if a Townie? In my experience, newbie Town players are inclined to look agreeable, particularly early on, as the path of least resistance. I'm wagering Ace thought it would be easier to decline now (and hope for some agreement) than to not respond and be called to task for it later. Metagaming, but I just modded a game in which she was scum, and got lynched Day One for going along with the trend and looking agreeable.
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Post by metallicsquink on May 4, 2011 12:14:49 GMT -5
Yeah, I can't argue with a slam dunk. vote AceWhy would scum push a bandwagon now? It's Day 1. Odds are, we're going to hit Town, and there's no real imminent threat of a lynch to anyone besides Ace. <snip> These two posts seem contradictory to me. How can ace be a "slam dunk" if the odds are that she is town? Is a "slam dunk" an easy vote that you don't have to justify?
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