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Post by CatInASuit on May 26, 2011 7:36:25 GMT -5
Archangel: The point about the scum not having both a cop and a watcher is a good point. We have a confirmed scum Watcher on one side. On the town side we have a confirmed Cop, confirned vigilante, a claimed gossip, a claimed one-shot NK protect, and whatever Sub Plank would like to claim. Not to mention one 3rd party politician/bomber and whatever BillMc is claiming. We also have a politican on one side or the other. Ok, let me ask you this why do you think septimus is town? What has he done that says to you he cannot be scum, because that is the way you are coming across.
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Post by septimus on May 26, 2011 8:50:02 GMT -5
I'll place a vote for the reasons I gave yesterDay: Vote: Metallic SquinkI'm still being asked about earlier votes. On Day 2, my vote on Pinkies was placed on his silence, despite questions about his Day 1 post. When he then showed up, he made another very peculiar post. (He was a victim of the Politician, but didn't come out and say so.) Perhaps he was playing anti-Town rather than pro-Scum, but when I have no Scum suspects, the choice is between voting the anti-Town player or not voting at all. On Day 3, I moved my vote from a one-off to the actual contender who seemed most likely to be Scum. I find it hard to believe that's not correct play. I don't know how to prove it was then my bedtime.  |
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Post by BillMc on May 26, 2011 8:51:53 GMT -5
I'm not sure if I'll be around for the rest of the Day, so time for some musings.
As Story likes to point out, my instincts are often right, but I have challenges in elaborating my arguments. My gut is telling me Squink and Lightfoot are scummy. So I'm going to leave my vote where it is.
I also have reason to believe that someone has a day vig power - so possibly the joat or someone else. I think it is highly unlikely that that person would be scum. The reason I think this is due to a comment SisC made in a PM to me
So we're currently at 11 v 4 - assuming 5 scum
For the sake of argument, lets accept claims at face value for now:
On the townside we:
- Delayed Vote (Plankton)
- Gossip(Moley)
- Vanilla(BillMc)
- Doc
- JOAT
- Possible Lie Detector(?)
- Possible Day Vig(?)
- Politician (? unlikely, but on the off chance)
I'm also strongly leaning towards Story and Ma'at being town.
And the Scummy scum:
- Squink
- Lightfoot
- Politican - I just can't see it being a Town role
With three town claims, there are eight unknown townies and possibly 4 town powers (5 IF the politican is Town)- so scum have a 50/50 chance, or better, of hitting a town power toNight.
The Lie Detector, if they exist, would have had 3 tests so far. I would guess they haven't found three scum, but confirming three town would be beneficial. Debatable whether the LD should claim, if they exist.
The interesting combination would be if there is a day vig and that the lie detector exists and has found scum
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Post by CatInASuit on May 26, 2011 9:16:15 GMT -5
I've been growing suspicious of septimus toDay. He seems to be putting up a voracious defence of Ma'at. But what's more important in my mind is how he's been going about this defence. I've made several points against Ma'at that I feel are quite strong ones, and I think that I've been quite clear as to what these points are. septimus, however, has chosen to focus on small details that are completely irrelevant to my case... Here's where you've misinterpreted my remarks. I wasn't trying to defend Ma'at voraciously or otherwise. I focused on using your comments to build a case against you. So many Scum candidates to choose from. So few vote(s) to cast. ;D I'll place a vote for the reasons I gave yesterDay: Vote: Metallic SquinkI'm still being asked about earlier votes. On Day 2, my vote on Pinkies was placed on his silence, despite questions about his Day 1 post. When he then showed up, he made another very peculiar post. (He was a victim of the Politician, but didn't come out and say so.) Perhaps he was playing anti-Town rather than pro-Scum, but when I have no Scum suspects, the choice is between voting the anti-Town player or not voting at all. Two things Septimus 1. Where did the case against Rysto go? 2. You voted CIAS despite Pinkies silence and Pinkies did not post in between the time you switched you votes to him. Never mind what happened with Pinkies afterwards, its the total lack of justification of your vote switch even before he turned up that is scummy. |
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Post by metallicsquink on May 26, 2011 9:31:19 GMT -5
This is from Archangel.
My comments/questions preceded by >>>
I don't see a scum cop as being likely in this game when they had a watcher and they appear to have a politician. (I know a politician could be town. I don't think s/he is, though, and even if s/he is, a politician is not a role that truly helps town because the politician can misuse his/her powers.)
>>> I'm not sure what you point is about the politician not helping town. Regardless of whether he/she is helping town, he/she could be town and therefore presumably acting in the best interests of town.
If Honest Moley is telling the truth, then that's another role that doesn't really help town either. I don't believe he is, I think a gossip as stated in his PM would be more useful to scum. But again, either way, if he's town, his role detracts from town, if he's scum, that detracts from town too.
>>> Again, what is the point here? Do you think Moley is scum? Do you think he's town with a crappy role? What is the point of saying this?
So, so far town has a dead-cop and someone who claims to have had a one-shot protection, and there are a bunch of roles claimed that, whether town or scum, hurt town. I don't see scum also having a role-investigating cop.
>>> More random thoughts that seem like non-sequiters to me. Where did we start talking about a role cop and why wouldn't the scum have one?
I don't know Septimus' alignment at all. I just think it's more likely that this was a coincidence. Cap was town and had his vote bought on me-- I'm town (I know you don't know this, but I do). Now I'm town and my vote was bought on Septimus (another townie, like me, who seems likely to be the target of a mislynch). Whether the politician is town or scum, I see a pattern here.
>>> Underlining mine. Am I really the only one who thinks this is yet another slip from Archangel? She has been making a bunch of definitive statements that just sound like PIS to me. If I am going to ignore all the classic scum tells (possible PIS, lurking, lame votes) then I should just quit playing altogether.
I can't win this argument with you, though. If he dies and flips scum, then I'll be scum trying to save a scum buddy. If he dies and flips town, then I must be scum who "knew" that and tried to get town cred for it.
So I will go on doing what I think is the right thing to do-- argue against the lynch of someone who I believe is town. Especially when I have a forced vote on him and it's a vote I don't believe in.
>>> You've told us who you think (know?) is town. How about telling us who you think is scum? Who would you vote for toDay if you could? Hopefully you come up with something better than a vote for me because you believe BillMc (again!).
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Post by CatInASuit on May 26, 2011 9:35:49 GMT -5
I also have reason to believe that someone has a day vig power - so possibly the joat or someone else. I think it is highly unlikely that that person would be scum. The reason I think this is due to a comment SisC made in a PM to me Do you want to share a little more from the PM? So we're currently at 11 v 4 - assuming 5 scum For the sake of argument, lets accept claims at face value for now: On the townside we: - Delayed Vote (Plankton) - Gossip(Moley) - Vanilla(BillMc) - Doc - JOAT - Possible Lie Detector(?) - Possible Day Vig(?) - Politician (? unlikely, but on the off chance) I'm also strongly leaning towards Story and Ma'at being town. And the Scummy scum: - Squink - Lightfoot - Politican - I just can't see it being a Town role With three town claims, there are eight unknown townies and possibly 4 town powers (5 IF the politican is Town)- so scum have a 50/50 chance, or better, of hitting a town power toNight. The Lie Detector, if they exist, would have had 3 tests so far. I would guess they haven't found three scum, but confirming three town would be beneficial. Debatable whether the LD should claim, if they exist. The interesting combination would be if there is a day vig and that the lie detector exists and has found scum Don't forget we are also missing a Strongman and a Scotsman as well, I mean they are also on the list.  |
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Post by Archangel on May 26, 2011 10:06:41 GMT -5
Archangel: The point about the scum not having both a cop and a watcher is a good point. We have a confirmed scum Watcher on one side. On the town side we have a confirmed Cop, confirned vigilante, a claimed gossip, a claimed one-shot NK protect, and whatever Sub Plank would like to claim. Not to mention one 3rd party politician/bomber and whatever BillMc is claiming. We also have a politican on one side or the other. Ok, let me ask you this why do you think septimus is town? What has he done that says to you he cannot be scum, because that is the way you are coming across. He hasn't done anything that says to me he cannot be scum. I just don't think that he is. If I am coming across as saying the former, I apologize. The main reasons I think he's town are: 1. The politician pattern. Pinkies was town (but likely to get lynched), and his vote was bought against me (town likely to get lynched). Now my vote (town likely to get lynched) is bought against Septimus...which leads me to believe he's town that's likely to get lynched. 2. His argument that scum are not the ones making mistakes, scum are the ones being careful with perfect, logical arguments. That's exactly how I see mafia in most cases. 3. Gut feeling. I may suck at finding scum but I'm usually pretty good at identifying town who are getting frustrated. That's the feel I get from him. 4. I don't agree with your argument that him calling Ed a cop was a possible scum slip. I know you say this isn't your only point on him, but this point I don't agree with at all for reasons stated above. 5. I understand that his voting record looks bad and that this is a reasonable cause for voting him. For me personally, it's not enough to sway my mind. I'm also annoyed that I'm forced to vote Septimus, who I don't think is scum, when I actually have someone I'm suspicious of now (Moley's claim has at least as many holes than my punk rock girl stockings). Doubly annoyed because I was pretty sure Ace was town on Day One and yet allowed myself to be talked into voting her by Metallic Squink. I'm fairly confident she's scum now. I admit I'm partially influenced by Bill's opinion, but also because she made an argument on me yesterday that hinged on my use of the word "believed" Bill. Granted, her argument on me was based on a post where a typo I made had me stating the opposite of what I was trying to say. So there is confusion there. But: 1. I think the argument that me using the word "believe" was pushing things even if I had meant what I stated erroneously due to the typo in my text, and 2. After my explaining that it was a typo, and probably more significantly, after I bone-headedly earned myself 2 permanent votes that are making me look "more likely town" to a bunch of people now, she dropped discussing me entirely. |
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Post by Archangel on May 26, 2011 10:08:54 GMT -5
Funny cross-posting. I retract my point about Metallic Squink dropping discussing me.
But I've already said who I think is scum. Honest Moley, and you.
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Post by Archangel on May 26, 2011 10:11:28 GMT -5
NETA: One of my first posts of today after the vote fiasco indicated that I would vote Honest Moley if I could. I still feel that way.
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 26, 2011 10:29:12 GMT -5
Current vote count:
Metallic Squink (3,3)* BillMc [8], HonestMoley [98], septimus [151]
Archangel (3,1) Metallic Squink [102]
Septimus (2,2) CatInASuit [17], Archangel [21]
Gnarlycharlie (1,1) JustBeingGinger [18]
Ma’at (1,1) Rysto [35]
Honest Moley (0,1): gnarlycharlie [123]
With these votes, Metallic Squink will be lynched.
ToDay will end in approximately one day, nine and one half hours assuming the mod has done her math correctly.[/color]
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Post by metallicsquink on May 26, 2011 10:50:12 GMT -5
Funny cross-posting. I retract my point about Metallic Squink dropping discussing me. But I've already said who I think is scum. Honest Moley, and you. My argument against you yesterDay was more than just your typo. Your vote on meeko was lazy and easy and lacks accountability and you've been making scummy statements since Day 1. meeko turned out to be scum but that doesn't mean you couldn't be scum along with him. And once again, you are assuming that septimus is town and that he is likely to be lynched toDay. septimus was the runner-up yesterDay so why is not as likely that he could be scum? And I really don't think it's fair to blame me for you voting Ace! |
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Post by guiri on May 26, 2011 11:04:51 GMT -5
LightFoot - D1-7th on Ace, D2-4th on Fluid, D3-1st on Rysto, In your D1 vote on Ace you posted a WoW without commentary. Your reason for voting was: I’m not sure if she understood what she was being asked to claim (at that time) but it has been explained and she has not been here since My gut is she is SCUM or A THIRD Party Role When she returned to the game, you said: I am not on a bandwagon my reasons are posted. IF you can address them I may reconsider MY vote You were the 7th to vote Ace, a bandwagon, apart from your gut feeling, what reasons did you post and how did you expect Ace to address them? Your next post you gave her some advice on how she should play and said: I am not changing my vote at this time, but I can and will if you start " playing". By this time she had been back, made a statement of alignment and voted (with your help). Why didn't you unvote? In D3#216 CIAS analyzed your D1 and D2 posts as follows: Did you respond? Looking at D3 the thing that most stands out is your avoidance of the cases against Meeko: D3#149 - Meeko has 3 votes, Bill 2, others 1 (Ginger, Metallic, Archangel), you observe: "Mi'ri, JBGinger, Meeko are buggin me (prob just because of their play style I don't know)" D3#183 - Comments on low posters (why not Meeko?): Rysto- not much content, Story- helpful, Archangel, Gnarly, MHaye - mini-wow without commentary. Votes Rysto. D3#251 To Moley, "I say your name today, you show up and place a vote on me, and now you want to throw me under the bus to save Meeko?" |
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Post by metallicsquink on May 26, 2011 11:09:03 GMT -5
Funny cross-posting. I retract my point about Metallic Squink dropping discussing me. But I've already said who I think is scum. Honest Moley, and you. NETA: One of my first posts of today after the vote fiasco indicated that I would vote Honest Moley if I could. I still feel that way. I went back and I see your post 76 where you do say you would vote Honest Moley (my mistake - I missed that earlier). But you don't mention me in that post at all. And actually, until the post quoted above, I don't see you voicing any suspicion of me toDay. So I guess we are all just supposed to overlook yet another skim by Archangel (of her own posts) so I'll just get to the question of why you think I'm scum. |
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Post by guiri on May 26, 2011 11:13:52 GMT -5
Honest Moley (0,1): gnarlycharlie [123] |
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Post by septimus on May 26, 2011 11:34:35 GMT -5
Part of the case against Squink yesterDay is that she seemed to be teaming with the likely Scum Meeko. When likely Scum became confirmed Scum, didn't that strengthen at least that part of the case? And yet we have to put up with: Two things Septimus 1. Where did the case against Rysto go? Had I voted Rysto, I'm absolutely certain you would have asked "Where did the case against Squink go?". My question to you is: Did you have the anti-Septimus boilerplate already typed, just wondering what name to cut-and-paste in? And for the record, Squink and Rysto are not my only Scum suspects. I won't even list the several others now -- we'll have a lot more information tomorrow -- but you are still on the list CIAS; in fact this purposeless anti-septimus post may have moved you to the #2 slot. 2. You voted CIAS despite Pinkies silence and Pinkies did not post in between the time you switched you votes to him. Never mind what happened with Pinkies afterwards, its the total lack of justification of your vote switch even before he turned up that is scummy. You've pointed this out, what, 7 times already? Or is it only 6? I've only answered it 4 times so far. Does anyone think that if I constructed a new answer to this question now, over two weeks later, that it would satisfy you? Yes, I know my answers seem weak to you; I've also admitted that 2 or 3 times already. Even if it's true that you think I'm Scum (and I'm beginning to feel you had an exact list of the real Scum on Night Zero), surely you realize there are better Lynch candidates. What I'm afraid of is that we'll nab 2 or 3 relatively obvious Scum but end up in an endgame where one Scum, who's been very clever and bussing his teammates, remains hidden. That's the Scum I'm worried about. We certainly don't have to worry that that final Scum will be septimus -- I'm obviously going to be Lynched real soon now. ;D |
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Post by Archangel on May 26, 2011 11:44:55 GMT -5
Funny cross-posting. I retract my point about Metallic Squink dropping discussing me. But I've already said who I think is scum. Honest Moley, and you. NETA: One of my first posts of today after the vote fiasco indicated that I would vote Honest Moley if I could. I still feel that way. I went back and I see your post 76 where you do say you would vote Honest Moley (my mistake - I missed that earlier). But you don't mention me in that post at all. And actually, until the post quoted above, I don't see you voicing any suspicion of me toDay. So I guess we are all just supposed to overlook yet another skim by Archangel (of her own posts) so I'll just get to the question of why you think I'm scum. I'm not claiming I mentioned you earlier. I mentioned Honest Moley earlier. I'm suspicious of you now, and I said "And you" in reference to the long post I had just made. If you read the post I wrote about you rather than skimming it (and then accusing me of skimming my own posts and trying to twist my words), you'll see I explained why I find you scummy there. I never said you voted me because of my typo. I said I found your argument about my use of the word "believe" spurious regardless of the typo. You're claiming I have PIS when all I've done is insist repeatedly that I believe Septimus is town. And you're faulting me for my vote on Meeko because it had no reasoning (apart from me wanting to save Bill). I plead guilty to that. But you're ignoring the timing of it and the fact that it helped him get lynched. The only possible reason for me to have voted Meeko if I'm scum is to get town cred. I did not get town cred by placing a vote on him with no reasoning. Instead, what I got was a bunch of people going after me for voting badly. Which is precisely the reason I did it. I laid out bait, and you jumped on it. Finally, statements like "if I'm supposed to ignore lurking, PIS and bad voting I might as well quit mafia" (paraphrase, not exact phrase) reek of scum arguments to me. And, you and I are in a near tie, only people are actually voting for you, while I have only one real vote (yours). The remainder of the voting today will be very interesting. I actually just asked Sister Coyote if I could change my vote, knowing I'd accrue two more final penalty points, but would it still count? After this exchange I'd vote you over Moley. |
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Post by Archangel on May 26, 2011 11:46:48 GMT -5
NETA: She said no, it wouldn't count:
Pinkies Vote Change accrued him the penalty votes and his vote was not moved, so no.
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 26, 2011 11:51:05 GMT -5
Honest Moley (0,1): gnarlycharlie [123] [/size][/quote] Is the vote count correct?[/quote] Yes |
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Post by metallicsquink on May 26, 2011 12:10:53 GMT -5
This is in response to Archangel.
My comments preceded by >>>
I'm not claiming I mentioned you earlier. I mentioned Honest Moley earlier. I'm suspicious of you now, and I said "And you" in reference to the long post I had just made.
>>> Your wording made it sound like you had mentioned me in that post. My mistake.
If you read the post I wrote about you rather than skimming it (and then accusing me of skimming my own posts and trying to twist my words), you'll see I explained why I find you scummy there. I never said you voted me because of my typo. I said I found your argument about my use of the word "believe" spurious regardless of the typo.
>>> I did read it and all it said was that you didn't like my case against you. I was curious if there was more to it but it seems like that's it. Pretty weak, if you ask me.
You're claiming I have PIS when all I've done is insist repeatedly that I believe Septimus is town.
>>> Both could be true.
And you're faulting me for my vote on Meeko because it had no reasoning (apart from me wanting to save Bill). I plead guilty to that. But you're ignoring the timing of it and the fact that it helped him get lynched.
>>> What did I miss about the timing of it then? And again, you say you wanted to save Bill. You just seem to lack the heightened suspicion that I would expect from a townie. What made you so sure at that point that Bill was worth saving?
The only possible reason for me to have voted Meeko if I'm scum is to get town cred. I did not get town cred by placing a vote on him with no reasoning. Instead, what I got was a bunch of people going after me for voting badly. Which is precisely the reason I did it. I laid out bait, and you jumped on it.
>>> Well, I'm not sure what I "jumped on" but this is quite a clever explanation for a weak vote. What would you be saying here had meeko turned out to be town?
Finally, statements like "if I'm supposed to ignore lurking, PIS and bad voting I might as well quit mafia" (paraphrase, not exact phrase) reek of scum arguments to me.
>>> Why?
And, you and I are in a near tie, only people are actually voting for you, while I have only one real vote (yours). The remainder of the voting today will be very interesting.
I actually just asked Sister Coyote if I could change my vote, knowing I'd accrue two more final penalty points, but would it still count? After this exchange I'd vote you over Moley.
>>> Thanks!
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Post by metallicsquink on May 26, 2011 12:13:56 GMT -5
Honest Moley (0,1): gnarlycharlie [123] So does this mean that gnarlycharlie's vote doesn't count? |
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 26, 2011 12:27:40 GMT -5
Is the vote count correct? So does this mean that gnarlycharlie's vote doesn't count? It looks like it did count at some point, but was somehow removed. the (0,1) in the count suggests that the current vote count is zero, but that the maximum number of votes was one. Since I don't see any other votes against Moley today, that would seem to indicate a 'successful' vote, followed by a removal. |
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 26, 2011 12:29:05 GMT -5
I should have done this in the last post...
SisC, is my theory on Post 170 correct?
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 26, 2011 12:50:41 GMT -5
okay. so after a quick scan i find several more posts to go through and apparently my vote doesn't count.  so does this mean Moley is somehow special? is someone protecting him or is someone just screwing around my vote. time to play catch up again. |
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 26, 2011 13:01:47 GMT -5
I should have done this in the last post... SisC, is my theory on Post 170 correct?Current vote count: Metallic Squink (3,3)* BillMc [8], HonestMoley [98], septimus [151] Archangel (3,1) Metallic Squink [102] Septimus (2,2) CatInASuit [17], Archangel [21] Gnarlycharlie (1,1) JustBeingGinger [18] Ma’at (1,1) Rysto [35] Honest Moley (0,0): gnarlycharlie [123] With these votes, Metallic Squink will be lynched. Breakdown: person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in] In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk. |
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 26, 2011 13:03:46 GMT -5
so i have no vote?  |
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Post by Suburban Plankton on May 26, 2011 13:15:10 GMT -5
so i have no vote? Try voting again (for Moley, or someone else) to see if the issue is with you, or him. And in the meantime Vote: Honest Moley to see what happens |
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 26, 2011 13:26:55 GMT -5
Current vote count:
Metallic Squink (3,3)* BillMc [8], HonestMoley [98], septimus [151]
Archangel (3,1) Metallic Squink [102]
Septimus (2,2) CatInASuit [17], Archangel [21]
Gnarlycharlie (1,1) JustBeingGinger [18]
Ma’at (1,1) Rysto [35]
Honest Moley (1,1): gnarlycharlie [123], Suburban Plankton [175]
With these votes, Metallic Squink will be lynched.
ToDay will end in approximately one day, six and one-half hours assuming the mod has done her math right.[/color]
Breakdown:
person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in]
In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk.
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Post by gnarlycharlie on May 26, 2011 13:28:19 GMT -5
so i have no vote? Try voting again (for Moley, or someone else) to see if the issue is with you, or him. And in the meantime Vote: Honest Moley [/color] to see what happens[/quote] okay. Unvote Honest MoleyVote Suburban Plankton |
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Post by Sister Coyote on May 26, 2011 13:31:27 GMT -5
Current vote count:
Metallic Squink (3,3)*: BillMc [8], HonestMoley [98], septimus [151]
Archangel (3,1): Metallic Squink [102]
Septimus (2,2): CatInASuit [17], Archangel [21]
Gnarlycharlie (1,1): JustBeingGinger [18]
Ma’at (1,1): Rysto [35]
Honest Moley (1,1): gnarlycharlie [123,177], Suburban Plankton [175]
Suburban Plankton (0,0): gnarlycharlie [177]
With these votes, Metallic Squink will be lynched.
ToDay will end in approximately one day, six and one-half hours assuming the mod has done her math right.[/color]
Breakdown:
person with votes (number of votes, max number of votes): person voting for [post voted in]
In the event of a tie, the player who was voted for first during the Day (even if that vote has subsequently been removed) will be marked with an asterisk.
Side note: the mod will be sidelined by dental work this afternoon, so there may not be a vote count between 2:30 Pacific and tomorrow some time.
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Post by storyteller0910 on May 26, 2011 13:33:49 GMT -5
So someone has removed gnarlycharly's ability to vote.
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so does this mean Moley is somehow special? is someone protecting him or is someone just screwing around my vote.
