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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 16:36:09 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Jul 7, 2011 16:36:09 GMT -5
Guiri The only explanation that I come up with for people's votes on me was that people did not agree with my logic, or that they thought that I was scummish for changing my mind. Question- Don't we have a viglante? If so, that means that either the Vig didn't attack, or an attack got blocked The only blocking role we have is the Doc and s/he should be protecting the Elephant. A compulsory vig could have trusted the Doc and fired at the Elephant. Without a confirmed Scum I would doubt that a non-compulsory Vig would strike this early in the game.
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Colby11
Administrator
Creator of Hell's Kitchen Mafia
Posts: 1,193
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 16:39:42 GMT -5
Post by Colby11 on Jul 7, 2011 16:39:42 GMT -5
Guiri The only explanation that I come up with for people's votes on me was that people did not agree with my logic, or that they thought that I was scummish for changing my mind. Question- Don't we have a viglante? If so, that means that either the Vig didn't attack, or an attack got blocked The only blocking role we have is the Doc and s/he should be protecting the Elephant. A compulsory vig could have trusted the Doc and fired at the Elephant. Without a confirmed Scum I would doubt that a non-compulsory Vig would strike this early in the game. That does make sense, since the vig could accidently hit the doctor.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 16:39:43 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jul 7, 2011 16:39:43 GMT -5
Guiri The only explanation that I come up with for people's votes on me was that people did not agree with my logic, or that they thought that I was scummish for changing my mind. Question- Don't we have a viglante? If so, that means that either the Vig didn't attack, or an attack got blocked The case against you was a mixture of changing your mind without giving a good explanation and then making statements that make it very likely you are non-vanilla. There is no role-blocker, either the Vig chose not to shoot or the scum played a wifom game with the Doc and lost. As for the cop, I think he should declare who is investigated each day. This forces a decision on the scum, whether they should go after confirmed Town (which may or may not have a role) or go after the Doctor who is protecting the cop. The longer that the cop stays alive, the better chances that Town has to win this game. Unless the Cop investigates scum or one of his investigatees is close to being lynched, I see no reason to claim as long as the Doc is alive.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 16:43:32 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jul 7, 2011 16:43:32 GMT -5
can though see why Lighfoot would point out the "a pox upon you " comment as looking like they might have had some kind of power. Maybe, but other players such as you and Colby gave off much stronger non-vanilla tells in their reactions to Silver Jan's statements.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 17:05:09 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 17:05:09 GMT -5
As for the cop, I think he should declare who is investigated each day. This forces a decision on the scum, whether they should go after confirmed Town (which may or may not have a role) or go after the Doctor who is protecting the cop. The longer that the cop stays alive, the better chances that Town has to win this game. The problem with this is that eventually, the Cop will investigate the Doc.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 17:06:59 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 17:06:59 GMT -5
As for the cop, I think he should declare who is investigated each day. This forces a decision on the scum, whether they should go after confirmed Town (which may or may not have a role) or go after the Doctor who is protecting the cop. The longer that the cop stays alive, the better chances that Town has to win this game. Unless the Cop investigates scum or one of his investigatees is close to being lynched, I see no reason to claim as long as the Doc is alive. And, as long as the Doc is alive, the Cop will live to tell us the next Day, thereby not allowing the Scum to kill of the confirmed players.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 17:29:44 GMT -5
Post by moodymitchy on Jul 7, 2011 17:29:44 GMT -5
can though see why Lighfoot would point out the "a pox upon you " comment as looking like they might have had some kind of power. Maybe, but other players such as you and Colby gave off much stronger non-vanilla tells in their reactions to Silver Jan's statements. Hmmmm interesting comment there ... fishing maybe
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 17:29:47 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Jul 7, 2011 17:29:47 GMT -5
Do you really think the scum are going to hang around and just off fubble's investigations? If only because that makes it really easy for the doc to block every single NK from now on until the end of the game.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 17:38:43 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 17:38:43 GMT -5
Do you really think the scum are going to hang around and just off fubble's investigations? If only because that makes it really easy for the doc to block every single NK from now on until the end of the game. So, you think they'll just let all of fubble's investigation targets live? For how many Nights? 3? 4? allowing us to have 5 or 6 confirmed Town by the time they kill the Doc? Or even better, get the Doc to WiFoM his protection and maybe allow them to off fubble? Exactly what is the drawback to fubble keeping his investigations a secret for now? 1. We might lynch one of them? Except fubble will stop us, and reveal that investigation, making this the same as revealing. 2. The Scum might NK one of them? Yes, though, that would be by luck instead of by choice. Compared to the drawback: We allow the Scum to kill off the investigation target if they so choose. ~~~~~~ No, there will come a time when it makes sense for fubble to reveal: 1. If he finds a Scum, reveal that one alone. 2. If the Doc dies, since he'll be vulnerable 3. If we are set to lynch one, in which case he reveals that one 4. Eventually, when he has a large enough pool of confirmed Town to swing the game to Town's significant advantage. Through both a large confirmed pool and vote analysis of the confirmed town players.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 18:48:12 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Jul 7, 2011 18:48:12 GMT -5
SNIPPED Regarding guiri's vote on Trepa: I don't agree with guiri's argument at all. It's clear from the color that the Scum were infected with the rabies virus, which is now dormant in them; still, they are indeed 'rabid'. True, the term doesn't appear to have been used before Trepa coined it, but I think that's a pretty weak argument to hang a vote on. So, I see three possibilities: 1. Trepa, as he claims, spontaneously decided to give the scum team a pet name and, in his first post of the Day, chose "rabids" which matched the unannounced in-game term for scum as apparently confirmed by the mod and the Cop - an amazing coincidence. 2. Trepa is a Town power role who was informed that the scum are to be referred to as "rabids" in his role PM but, when asked if he'd coined the term, said "Yes, I did" - a lie of commission. 3. Trepa is scum and saw the term in his own role PM I think it's a crappy way for a scum to be found so early in the game but I'm still happy with my vote. I don't personally have a problem with #2 in principle; it's perfectly plausible that a Town Power would not want to give away information that might out him. The problem here is that I can't figure out which Town Power (besides the claimed and not-counterclaimed Cop) would be likely to have the word 'rabids' in their PM. We have a Doc, a Vig, and 2 Masons. There is no reason I can think of for any of these roles to have Team nicknames specified in their PMs. So it seems that either Trepa came up with the word 'rabids' on his own, and it just happened to be the same term that Meeko picked, or he saw it somewhere other than in a Town Power's PM. Of course, there are a couple possibilites other than the ones guiri mentioned: A) fubbleskag is Scum, and hoped to out the Cop via a counterclaim. B) Trepa saw the word in his own Vanilla Town PM. I think A would be an incredibly ballsy move by Scum at this point in the game. As for B, since we don't have a sample Vanilla PM (unless I missed it), we can't say for certain it's not the case, but with a number of people claiming the word 'rabid' does not appear in their PM, it seems unlikely. BLEACHED outrun Trepa Mayfield Mine in CAPS So, SP In post #79 You disagree strongly with Guiri's vote on Trepa and go as far to call it "a pretty weak argument", but in post #134 You vote for Trepa for the whole "Rabids"term and the fact that he used it for SCUM. Why the change of heart?
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 19:01:02 GMT -5
Post by Archangel on Jul 7, 2011 19:01:02 GMT -5
Sorry. I didn't make it back for end of day.
The reveals have slightly changed my stance on Colby.
The first reason I was suspecting him, it is not pro-town to share right now, but the reveals somewhat assuaged my suspicion on this front.
The second reason was that he seemed to be flip-flopping on Trepa depending on how the tide was turning.
Colby, have you ever played scum before?
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 19:16:21 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Jul 7, 2011 19:16:21 GMT -5
gnarlycharlie pointed out something that I hadn't noticed, but which is bugging me now. Trepa has been the de facto Lynchee for quite some time now, and there seems to have been no effort to get a bandwagon going anywhere else. Would the Scum be that easily willing to sacrifice one of their own on Day 1? I mean, the case against Trepa is at least as good as any other case Today, but it's not exactly a slam dunk. I'm starting to wonder if we're about to make a mistake. That being said, I'm not changing my vote just yet, because I can't make a better case against anyone else right now, but I feel like it's worth pointing out. On another note, does anyone know where Metallic Squink has run off to? SP You post this right after Gnarly posts about Colby's flip flop and the votes are piling on him ( Colby).
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 19:21:20 GMT -5
Post by JustBeingGinger on Jul 7, 2011 19:21:20 GMT -5
PS, Interesting catch on colby's flip-flop. Was it a flip-flop, though? I'm not so sure. At first, colby says he has no problem with Trepa's use of the word 'rabid' as a collective for the Scum in this game. A day later, he says that after thinking about it, the circumstance regarding the use of the word, and the fact that Trepa uses both 'scum' and 'rabids' in the same post bothers him, and so he votes. I don't consider that so much a 'flip-flop' as a 'change of mind after giving the matter closer consideration'. The former might be a Scum tell (though Town is very often guilty of it as well); the latter is good Town play (though Scum will ofter do the very same thing). In short, I don't see anything terribly wrong with colby's statements, and even if I did, I don't think it would necessarily mean much of anything. Of course you don't consider it a Flip Flop because you did the same thing.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 19:45:13 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 19:45:13 GMT -5
Sorry. I didn't make it back for end of day. The reveals have slightly changed my stance on Colby. The first reason I was suspecting him, it is not pro-town to share right now, but the reveals somewhat assuaged my suspicion on this front. The second reason was that he seemed to be flip-flopping on Trepa depending on how the tide was turning. Colby, have you ever played scum before? I'm puzzled as to how it could be anti-Town to share something that you suspected. but no longer do. Un;ess of course it leads you to suspect that colby is a power role, in which case, you've jsut telegraphed your suspicion to the Scum and I'm sure they'll look into it.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 19:52:45 GMT -5
Post by texcat on Jul 7, 2011 19:52:45 GMT -5
Ed, Thanks for explaining better than I ever could the advantages of fubbles staying quiet for the moment about his results. I might also suggest that if fubbles hits scum that he announces it toward the middle to end of the day. I like the idea of the vig taking out the known scum and the vig wouldn't need the information until dusk. If he announces it first thing in the morning, the known scum will certainly remain quiet for the rest of day, not giving us any more clues.
~~snip~~ cassidyscarlet didn't have a particularly high post count yesterDay so it shouldn't be too hard to go back over them and see if anything indicated that they had a power of whether they had ruffled someones feathers. I may have found that D1.169 “A POX UPON YOU” May have been taken as a code phrase of some sort. A code phrase of some sort? Does that make any sense in an open game? Maybe, but other players such as you and Colby gave off much stronger non-vanilla tells in their reactions to Silver Jan's statements. Hmmmm interesting comment there ... fishing maybe I know there is some controversy about what is "smudging", but what the heck is this? Are you accusing Guiri of fishing or not? Do you find this suspicious or only "interesting"? I'd have to reread moodymitchy's posts because his non-vanilla tells did not stand out for me, but Colby's did. I commented on them when I voted him yesterDay. It makes the scum choice of cassidyscarlet seem even odder to me.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 20:54:17 GMT -5
Post by Archangel on Jul 7, 2011 20:54:17 GMT -5
Sorry. I didn't make it back for end of day. The reveals have slightly changed my stance on Colby. The first reason I was suspecting him, it is not pro-town to share right now, but the reveals somewhat assuaged my suspicion on this front. The second reason was that he seemed to be flip-flopping on Trepa depending on how the tide was turning. Colby, have you ever played scum before? I'm puzzled as to how it could be anti-Town to share something that you suspected. but no longer do. Un;ess of course it leads you to suspect that colby is a power role, in which case, you've jsut telegraphed your suspicion to the Scum and I'm sure they'll look into it. That's not my reason for not sharing it. (Although at least 2 other people have stated that suspicion, most recently Guiri, so I'm sure scum HAVE noticed it at this point.) I won't say more than that because I think it's anti-Town, but at a time when I see the risk outweigh the benefit, I will.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 20:54:38 GMT -5
Post by Archangel on Jul 7, 2011 20:54:38 GMT -5
Duh. I mean when I see the benefit outweigh the risk.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 21:02:15 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 21:02:15 GMT -5
I'm puzzled as to how it could be anti-Town to share something that you suspected. but no longer do. Un;ess of course it leads you to suspect that colby is a power role, in which case, you've jsut telegraphed your suspicion to the Scum and I'm sure they'll look into it. That's not my reason for not sharing it. (Although at least 2 other people have stated that suspicion, most recently Guiri, so I'm sure scum HAVE noticed it at this point.) I won't say more than that because I think it's anti-Town, but at a time when I see the risk outweigh the benefit, I will. Well, you'd better use that time to make up a good reason why it would be anti-Town to share the information.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 21:10:33 GMT -5
Post by Archangel on Jul 7, 2011 21:10:33 GMT -5
That's not my reason for not sharing it. (Although at least 2 other people have stated that suspicion, most recently Guiri, so I'm sure scum HAVE noticed it at this point.) I won't say more than that because I think it's anti-Town, but at a time when I see the risk outweigh the benefit, I will. Well, you'd better use that time to make up a good reason why it would be anti-Town to share the information. LOL. I'm not making it up. I have a reason. Whether you would consider it a good one or not is another story, but I do.
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Day 2
Jul 7, 2011 21:21:04 GMT -5
Post by special on Jul 7, 2011 21:21:04 GMT -5
Well, you'd better use that time to make up a good reason why it would be anti-Town to share the information. LOL. I'm not making it up. I have a reason. Whether you would consider it a good one or not is another story, but I do. Judging from history, it's unlikely that we'll agree on it. ;D
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 4:19:57 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jul 8, 2011 4:19:57 GMT -5
I agree that the elephant should keep quiet about his investigations unless someone that he has confirmed Town is in danger of being mis-lynched.
Archangel has me very curious about why she doesn't want to share her suspicions.
So Moody, are you accusing guiri of fishing or not?
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 7:30:13 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Jul 8, 2011 7:30:13 GMT -5
how many types of lemmings are there? i recall someone mentioning it but can't recall. From memory: builders, diggers, blockers, bombers, climbers. Alternatively: 11 types of dicrostonyx, 5 true lemmus (of which we've seen 3), 2 Synaptomys, and 1 myopus. wikiha ha ha! i see you played the game as well. thanks for the info. might help later on. snipped All the Elephant need to do is confirm TOWN.... NOT role.. Hell we don't even know if they get told the role anyway. i doubt if he gets the role. based on the mod's setup, it's a straightforward cop. As for the cop, I think he should declare who is investigated each day. This forces a decision on the scum, whether they should go after confirmed Town (which may or may not have a role) or go after the Doctor who is protecting the cop. The longer that the cop stays alive, the better chances that Town has to win this game. The problem with this is that eventually, the Cop will investigate the Doc. i see the logic now. it did seem anti-Town at first.
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 11:30:33 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Jul 8, 2011 11:30:33 GMT -5
:interrupts briefly:
Hey, folks. Astral and I have a game that needs just one more player on the Dope.
It's Dungeons and Dragons/RPG themed and has some different game mechanics you might find neat. Worth a shot if you are interested.
Sign up!boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=615244
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 12:38:06 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 8, 2011 12:38:06 GMT -5
So, SP In post #79 You disagree strongly with Guiri's vote on Trepa and go as far to call it "a pretty weak argument", but in post #134 You vote for Trepa for the whole "Rabids"term and the fact that he used it for SCUM. Why the change of heart? guiri voted based on the fact that Trepa used a word that had not appeared in the game before. My argument at that time was that the color clearly indicated that the Scum were rabid, so Trepa's "inventing" of the term 'rabids' as a collective noun to describe them wasn't suspicious to me. By the time I got to Post 134 we had discovered a couple of things: - Meeko had told us that 'rabids' was a term he used to describe the Scum in this game
- fubbleskag had told us that the term 'rabid' appeared in his PM
This made it appear that Trepa had in fact seen the word used somewhere. Since the only Town role that seemed likely to reference that term was the Doc, I made the conclusion at that time that Trepa must have seen it in a Scum PM or on the Scum board.
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 12:42:24 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 8, 2011 12:42:24 GMT -5
gnarlycharlie pointed out something that I hadn't noticed, but which is bugging me now. Trepa has been the de facto Lynchee for quite some time now, and there seems to have been no effort to get a bandwagon going anywhere else. Would the Scum be that easily willing to sacrifice one of their own on Day 1? I mean, the case against Trepa is at least as good as any other case Today, but it's not exactly a slam dunk. I'm starting to wonder if we're about to make a mistake. That being said, I'm not changing my vote just yet, because I can't make a better case against anyone else right now, but I feel like it's worth pointing out. On another note, does anyone know where Metallic Squink has run off to? SP You post this right after Gnarly posts about Colby's flip flop and the votes are piling on him ( Colby). The vote count at the time I posted this was Trepa - 8, colby - 2. I wouldn't exactly describe that as the votes 'piling on'. Other than that slight quibble on your phrasing, what you have stated here is true. Do you have a point you're trying to make?
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 12:54:38 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 8, 2011 12:54:38 GMT -5
The first reason I was suspecting him, it is not pro-town to share right now, but the reveals somewhat assuaged my suspicion on this front. I too am having a hard time figuring out what it is you think would not be pro-Town to share. And I can't understand how the reveals figure into it. Both of the reveals were of Vanilla Town. The only thing I can see that's 'significant' about the two reveals is that so far all of our Lemmings (including the claim by Silver Jan) are of different types...but I fail to see anything sinister in that.
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 13:30:19 GMT -5
Post by guiri on Jul 8, 2011 13:30:19 GMT -5
guiri voted based on the fact that Trepa used a word that had not appeared in the game before. My argument at that time was that the color clearly indicated that the Scum were rabid, so Trepa's "inventing" of the term 'rabids' as a collective noun to describe them wasn't suspicious to me. By the time I got to Post 134 we had discovered a couple of things: - Meeko had told us that 'rabids' was a term he used to describe the Scum in this game
- fubbleskag had told us that the term 'rabid' appeared in his PM
This made it appear that Trepa had in fact seen the word used somewhere. Since the only Town role that seemed likely to reference that term was the Doc, I made the conclusion at that time that Trepa must have seen it in a Scum PM or on the Scum board. I voted with basically the same argument after Meeko told us that scum were Rabids and then asked Fubbles if the word appeared in his PM before you made your comment about my vote reasoning being weak. Are you sure you didn't change your mind for another reason?
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 14:03:38 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Jul 8, 2011 14:03:38 GMT -5
I voted with basically the same argument after Meeko told us that scum were Rabids and then asked Fubbles if the word appeared in his PM before you made your comment about my vote reasoning being weak. Are you sure you didn't change your mind for another reason? The deciding factor was the fact that fubbleskag did have the term 'rabid' in his PM. Before that, it was a term that may or may not have had an 'official' meaning in the game, so the fact that Trepa independently 'coined' it was curious, but not suspicious. Once we found out that it was an 'official' term (that is; it was used in a PM) it seemed to me less likely that Trepa had come up with the term independently, and more likely that he had seen it somewhere else. Of course, there is something that I notice Today, which escaped my notice Yesterday. The word that was used by Trepa that caused all of the kerfluffle was ' rabids'. In your Post 76 you ask if anyone else has seen the word ' rabids'. But when fubbleskag answers in Post 125, he tells us his PM mentions the work ' rabid' (no 's'). That's not the same thing, and it doesn't necessarily carry the same connotations. Perhaps if I had noticed the distinction Yesterday I would have judged things differently. Perhaps not; I can't say at this point. And in any case, that's water under the bridge now.
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 14:16:10 GMT -5
Post by Silver Jan on Jul 8, 2011 14:16:10 GMT -5
Hi everyone, before I go back to read everything I just want to apologise for my lack of posts, it's been a nightmare. They are laying optic fibre cables (yay) but they pulled up the normal phone lines so I haven't had a phone, then my laptop had to recover from a fatal error (it didn't even give me the honour of the "blue screen of death"). Anyway, laptop is up and running so I have a lot of reading to do, so not easy on my blackberry
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Colby11
Administrator
Creator of Hell's Kitchen Mafia
Posts: 1,193
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Karma:
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Day 2
Jul 8, 2011 14:23:08 GMT -5
Post by Colby11 on Jul 8, 2011 14:23:08 GMT -5
Sorry. I didn't make it back for end of day. The reveals have slightly changed my stance on Colby. The first reason I was suspecting him, it is not pro-town to share right now, but the reveals somewhat assuaged my suspicion on this front. The second reason was that he seemed to be flip-flopping on Trepa depending on how the tide was turning. Colby, have you ever played scum before? Off topic- I had to look up assuaged lol Back to the questions at hand, why not reveal the first reason? I agree that it's not pro-town, but that decision is up to you I agree that my vote on Trepa was based on a technically, basically.. but if I was around when Trepa posted her PM, I would of gladly have changed it. Unfortuntely, I was not around to do so, due to real life. As to the scum question (kinda of a weird question if you ask me), but i have never played as scum. Not sure where you are going with that question, honestly, except to accuse me as being scum, and I assure you that I'm not.
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