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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:03:43 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 27, 2012 12:03:43 GMT -5
Also:
I'm not sure what I think about pizza's plan, and I think peeker has outed himself as not-LG, but don't think we can tell anything else about his alignment. And no, I don't see the argument on Hockey Monkey, but that's SOP for me.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:24:46 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Nov 27, 2012 12:24:46 GMT -5
I'm having a problem quoting for some reason. Anyway, Total, I'm not kidding about my FOS and I don't think the spoiler boards are every filled with praise for anyone in particular. I don't spend much time on them, though. Seriously, qualifications like that ping me, increased by your reaction to my comment. Enough to vote, actually.
Vote TotalUllz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:27:32 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Nov 27, 2012 12:27:32 GMT -5
well, i hope i didn't hurt your feelings by not commenting on your points. Only a little. Am I bothering you? Come on, you're paying enough attention to the game to reply to a completely meta question but hadn't seen anything worth commenting on in the days since your previous post until prompted? Don't you think Peeker's flinched plenty already? What more flinching are you looking for? nah, you don't bother me. i'm used to your playstyle and i know what you're trying to do. i usually don't post a lot on D1. i tried being more active with varied results. one time i did try to be very active. guess what? i was lynched D1. you would know. you were in that game. i ended up winning but it wasn't fun. so i will return to my comfort zone. thank you. as for flinching, i'm not referring to peeker. i'm seeing if anyone will try to save him or Lightfoot.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:31:59 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Nov 27, 2012 12:31:59 GMT -5
~~Snipped~~ Identifying a person as not Chaotic Evil can only help the Lawful Good side. I am struggling to follow your conclusion. It seems diametrically opposed to what seems like basic and fundamental mafia truth. Maybe I'm just not explaining myself well or vice-versa, but every person ID'ed as non-CE is good for town. Okay think about it like this. Town's priority is to lynch Chaotic Evil. If we identify Lawful Evil/Chaotic Good elements, it gives the third-parties targets to eliminate. If Lawful Evil or Chaotic Good is completely eliminated before Chaotic Evil is, Town will be under much more extreme pressure. So we want to keep third-party identities under wraps for as long as possible while we hunt for CE, so we have the most wiggle room possible in terms of winning. Identifying third-parties may very well be helpful, but it's MORE helpful to the other third-party and I'm not sure if the net gain will be worth it. You’re reference to 3rd parties I assume are LE and CG here. And your point makes perfect sense Since LE/CG need each other dead ( and they know who is on their teams ) Identifying a player as Not CE will simply target them for the opposition And while they are busy wiping each other out- CE can target LG at will that is what you are saying, correct?
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:37:36 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Nov 27, 2012 12:37:36 GMT -5
Also: I'm not sure what I think about pizza's plan, and I think peeker has outed himself as not-LG, but don't think we can tell anything else about his alignment. And no, I don't see the argument on Hockey Monkey, but that's SOP for me. What I surmise is if peeker is NOT CE then the opposing faction will use what ever they may have in their arsenal to eliminate him. If he is CE it should become apparent when he keeps living. Which leads me to conclude that he's not the best choice for the lynch toDay although I do realize that leaves me swinging
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 12:40:08 GMT -5
Post by gnarlycharlie on Nov 27, 2012 12:40:08 GMT -5
2 things: 1) Why the comment related to sounding useful and townie points? Just seems like a bizarre thing to say, from my perspective. It just seems completely generic, and could apply to literally everyone in the game. I always find comments that are nonspecific and lead to no conclusions to be essentially empty space. I realize I talk a lot and particularly my posts might not come across as useful to everyone, but they usually have a point, and a conclusion, and there's usually specifics. I can't grok a playstyle that lacks conclusions or specifics. I find your comment peculiar as such, gnarly. It's essentially fluff which is the active way of hiding. 2) What in the blue hell is this Ask Opal stuff? I am not in on this joke. i guess i'll stop using Opal then. but to address your fist point, what i am saying is that you have been trying to helpful but scum can be that too and you certainly have the skill to do so if you were. therefore, i don't think that you are necessarily town or scum for that matter.
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Chucara
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:07:22 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 27, 2012 13:07:22 GMT -5
Total: Sorry, couldn't get the quotes to work, so will reply to your points in plain text..
Regarding pizzas plan, I said that I was at best indifferent, that I didn't like the random part, and that getting it to work was like herding cats. I like the theory of it, but I think the drawbacks outweigh the theoretical benefits. I have a tendency to think out loud.
Regarding my bandwagon comment, I don't like joining a bandwagon because I feel like I should do something to catch scum rather than just join what others already have posted. But I am terrible at Day One, and I don't have anything better to offer. Also, I feel rather split on the peeker vote because he always seems to catch flak early in the game for his posting style, but I know he is a good player, and the mason stuff feels odd to me. I still see no explanation for how he can know that someone else is on his team if he is LG.
That leaves two options: Ally ourselves with peekers team and use them as masons. Or lynch peeker because he is not LG.
For me, that is currently the most important decision we (LG) have to make.
Above is only true if I have understood the wincons correctly (Good wins if all Evil are dead, Lawfull wins if all Chaotic are dead).
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:25:40 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Nov 27, 2012 13:25:40 GMT -5
I'm having a problem quoting for some reason. Anyway, Total, I'm not kidding about my FOS and I don't think the spoiler boards are every filled with praise for anyone in particular. I don't spend much time on them, though. Seriously, qualifications like that ping me, increased by your reaction to my comment. Enough to vote, actually. Vote TotalUllzMy post bothers you? After two pages about stuffing? After having people voting Peeker for his "slip"? After players have pointed to where this slip might not be a reason to lynch Peeker? But you see my "quick - this is why I've not posted"-post as the must scummy/evil/what-ever in this game? If I didn't know I'd regret it after I've posted, this is in fact where I would so much consider an OMGUS-vote.
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:31:16 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Nov 27, 2012 13:31:16 GMT -5
Total: Sorry, couldn't get the quotes to work, so will reply to your points in plain text.. I know. Sometimes this board will not allow you quotes-within-quotes. I have a tendency to think out loud. <snipped> Better that then to not think at all Regarding my bandwagon comment, I don't like joining a bandwagon because I feel like I should do something to catch scum rather than just join what others already have posted. But I am terrible at Day One, and I don't have anything better to offer. Also, I feel rather split on the peeker vote because he always seems to catch flak early in the game for his posting style, but I know he is a good player, and the mason stuff feels odd to me. I still see no explanation for how he can know that someone else is on his team if he is LG. That leaves two options: Ally ourselves with peekers team and use them as masons. Or lynch peeker because he is not LG. For me, that is currently the most important decision we (LG) have to make. Above is only true if I have understood the wincons correctly (Good wins if all Evil are dead, Lawfull wins if all Chaotic are dead). I think I see where you're coming from. I just wasn't sure if you were in on the FamilyPizza-Plan because you thought the random-part was good or because you actually liked the plan. To me it didn't (and still don't) makes sense. Maybe it's because I don't get it. But I seem to get what Pollux is saying and that makes much more sense to me...
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:32:26 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Nov 27, 2012 13:32:26 GMT -5
NETA: I don't OMGUS-vote. It was partly a joke, partly my irritation with the logic behind the vote on me.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:36:55 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Nov 27, 2012 13:36:55 GMT -5
So as Lawful Good, we don't want to out the "neutral" CG and LE parties, because we're essentially helping the third-parties identify who they need to get rid of while not advancing our own win condition. In essence, identifying who isn't Lawful Good helps the Chaotic Evil faction just as much because it gives them a smaller pool to target. Identifying a person as not Chaotic Evil can only help the Lawful Good side. I am struggling to follow your conclusion. It seems diametrically opposed to what seems like basic and fundamental mafia truth. Maybe I'm just not explaining myself well or vice-versa, but every person ID'ed as non-CE is good for town. Identifying a person as 'not Chaotic Evil' does help the Lawful Good side, because it identifies that person as 'someone who doesn't need to be killed'. Identifying someone as either 'Lawful Evil' or 'Chaotic Good' also helps LG, but it also helps Chaotic Evil by identifying that person as 'someone who doesn't need to be killed'. It also helps the 'opposing' faction; that is, identifying someone as LE helps CG by marking them as an 'enemy', and vice-versa. It's all academic anyway, because we can't expect to go through the whole game without identifying anyone as anything. In a perfect world, all Town (i.e. LG) investigators will target and identify only Scum (i.e. CE), and all non-Town players will be blocked or target only other non-Townies, and we can wrap this up and go home in 3 or 4 Days. But that's not likely to happen. We are going to identify people of every alignment, and in doing so we're going to help all four factions at some point, and to attempt to filter information so as to prevent "helping the 'other' guys" is to risk having things blow up in a super-not-good way. You’re reference to 3rd parties I assume are LE and CG here. And your point makes perfect sense Since LE/CG need each other dead ( and they know who is on their teams ) Identifying a player as Not CE will simply target them for the opposition And while they are busy wiping each other out- CE can target LG at will This is certainly a risk, but how would you prevent this from happening? Also, are we assured that all non-LG factions know their teammates? It's a valid assumption, but has it been verified?
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:42:10 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Nov 27, 2012 13:42:10 GMT -5
mod question: is it copacetic to quote someone from a different forum than this one to kind of prove a point? Are you talking about Pizza's 'confession' in the game over on Giraffe? The tags don't parse here, but it went something like this... I post it here just because I know he'd want someone to, and so that I can use it as ammunition should I decide to vote for him later in this game.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:43:38 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Nov 27, 2012 13:43:38 GMT -5
Hm.. interesting that some players can't vote for others. Anyone on that particular team (I'm going to assume it's not scum here) feel like elaborating? Well see, the way it works is.... ...err... nevermind
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:47:26 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Nov 27, 2012 13:47:26 GMT -5
The following is a list of possible roles in the game. The actual roles in the game may deviate from this list - there may be roles in the game that do not appear here, and there may be roles that appear here that won't be assigned to a player. Lawful Good faction: - Remorseful Killer (1/night, target player to kill, lose vote then lose power if shared alignment)
Chaotic Good faction: - Remorseful Killer (1/night, target player to kill, lose vote then lose power if shared alignment)
- Facilitator (While alive, CG team may use offboard for comm)
- Governor (1/game, at night, name two players - playerA's vote will count for playerB. Not blockable.)
Lawful Evil faction: - Remorseful Killer (1/night, target player to kill, lose vote then lose power if shared alignment)
- Facilitator (While alive, LE team may use offboard for comm)
- Judge (1/game, at night, name a player to recieve 3 hidden lynch votes. Not blockable.)
Chaotic Evil faction: - Godfather (investigates as LG)
- Strongman (target player to kill 1/game. unblockable)
- Detective 1(1/night, target player to learn role)
- Detective 2(1/night, target player to learn alignment)
- Watcher/Tracker (1/night, target player to watch OR track)
To me this suggests that we may have up to 4 players able of manipulating the voting records one way or another (provided only one of the killers/the judge on each team). Also it might suggest that of there is off-board-communication going on for two of the teams, then it might stop if a certain player is killed/lynched. So while I think we should keep our eyes on the vote records, I also think we should deduce with logic and caution.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:50:32 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Nov 27, 2012 13:50:32 GMT -5
~~snipped~~ You’re reference to 3rd parties I assume are LE and CG here. And your point makes perfect sense Since LE/CG need each other dead ( and they know who is on their teams ) Identifying a player as Not CE will simply target them for the opposition And while they are busy wiping each other out- CE can target LG at will This is certainly a risk, but how would you prevent this from happening? Also, are we assured that all non-LG factions know their teammates? It's a valid assumption, but has it been verified? Prevent it- I'm not sure- but being aware of it could help- perhaps an investigator will play closer to the vest if they agree with the theory. As to knowing their teammates- I was so bold as to think that it may not be the case ( since we had no N0 ) but you see the leader in votes for that bit-right.- with your - well random.org's help btw In the first one ( although that has little to do with this one I know) LE and CG did not know who was on their teams until they all checked in on their separate Night threads-I was bold enough (or Scummy enough) to think that it was possible they didn't know who each other were yet this time
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:55:02 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Nov 27, 2012 13:55:02 GMT -5
I was just looking at post counts in the thread (something I keep track of every game), and noticed that we have
23 posts by user LightFoot 4 posts by user lightfoot
I do seem to recall we went through this same thing a few games ago, and she came under quite a bit of suspicion for posting under 2 different user names. I suspect the same may happen here.
We might as well get it out of the way early...
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Total Ullz
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 13:56:22 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Nov 27, 2012 13:56:22 GMT -5
I was just looking at post counts in the thread (something I keep track of every game), and noticed that we have 23 posts by user LightFoot4 posts by user lightfootI do seem to recall we went through this same thing a few games ago, and she came under quite a bit of suspicion for posting under 2 different user names. I suspect the same may happen here. We might as well get it out of the way early... I seem to recall the same thing. Wasn't it something about posting from the computer/phone-thing?
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 14:04:37 GMT -5
Post by LightFoot on Nov 27, 2012 14:04:37 GMT -5
I was just looking at post counts in the thread (something I keep track of every game), and noticed that we have 23 posts by user LightFoot4 posts by user lightfootI do seem to recall we went through this same thing a few games ago, and she came under quite a bit of suspicion for posting under 2 different user names. I suspect the same may happen here. We might as well get it out of the way early... Carp my sign in on everyother board is LightFoot this one is yeemumakaren ( same password ) that account was accidently created when I though I was signing onto an off board in what ever game that was.-as lightfoot I appears I've signed in on the dummy account (I'd delete now - I meant to after whatever game that was and forgot-but I don't know if my posts with it will dissappear if I do-) I will go change the password so I will notice and not sign in with it again
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 14:39:53 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Nov 27, 2012 14:39:53 GMT -5
I'm having a problem quoting for some reason. Anyway, Total, I'm not kidding about my FOS and I don't think the spoiler boards are every filled with praise for anyone in particular. I don't spend much time on them, though. Seriously, qualifications like that ping me, increased by your reaction to my comment. Enough to vote, actually. Vote TotalUllzSTINKY EYE! You’re reference to 3rd parties I assume are LE and CG here. And your point makes perfect sense Since LE/CG need each other dead ( and they know who is on their teams ) Identifying a player as Not CE will simply target them for the opposition And while they are busy wiping each other out- CE can target LG at will that is what you are saying, correct? Yup, that's a good summary of what I've been attempting to say/explain. Also, are we assured that all non-LG factions know their teammates? It's a valid assumption, but has it been verified? I don't know if it can be verified unless one person from each team comes out and says "yup, we all know each other" but I think we're running on that assumption because that's how the first game worked, along with the: From the rules thread. On the other hand, KidV's also stated he's included ways to keep mass claims from being game-breaking, so if it were me modding, there would be a couple from each faction that were actually on their lonesome to throw a wrinkle into the mass claim idea. It would spice the game up and keep one of the third-party factions from completely revealing themselves and going "hey, Town, don't lynch us and we'll help you get rid of the bad guys." Of course, we all know I like to be Gastardly so the jury's out to lunch on whether KidV would think in that way.
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Chucara
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 17:10:20 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 27, 2012 17:10:20 GMT -5
Askthepizzaguy I am also playing on the Giraffe.. Care to comment about "that post"?
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 17:27:51 GMT -5
Post by astralrejection on Nov 27, 2012 17:27:51 GMT -5
I'm flabbergasted that people think that post means anything, or are questioning Pizza about it. It so clearly looks like a joke to me, and I think it's a null tell all the way, as he lampshades the entire claim with his comment about "hoping" we don't find out.
Chucara, what kind of answer are you looking for from Pizza? His obvious response is going to be "I was joking," right?
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Chucara
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 17:31:40 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 27, 2012 17:31:40 GMT -5
astralrejection Actually, I was looking for him to bait us into lynching him here. Figured he might be a Jester.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 17:51:50 GMT -5
Post by astralrejection on Nov 27, 2012 17:51:50 GMT -5
What did you expect his response to be?
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Chucara
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 17:54:54 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 27, 2012 17:54:54 GMT -5
Some weak explanation pretending to be a slip. But now that I come to think of it, with 4 factions, I doubt there will be a Jester. I humble apologize for any inconvenience or flabergastion my post may have traumatized you with
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 18:03:16 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 27, 2012 18:03:16 GMT -5
I um took Pizza's comment on Giraffe to be anything but serious.......for any number of reasons, including that 90% of this game is playing over there if I remember correctly somewhere about 50% of the players in this game are playing in that one. So yeah lets just drop that one.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 18:03:35 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Nov 27, 2012 18:03:35 GMT -5
I'm flabbergasted that people think that post means anything, or are questioning Pizza about it. It so clearly looks like a joke to me, and I think it's a null tell all the way, as he lampshades the entire claim with his comment about "hoping" we don't find out. Chucara, what kind of answer are you looking for from Pizza? His obvious response is going to be "I was joking," right? Just to clarify: I don't think Pizza's post in the other game "means anything". I mentioned it here only because I felt like it would have been 'wasted' if it didn't come up over here...especially after peeker alluded to it (at least, I assume that's what he was alluding to). Though I would expect some sort of response from him...but I don't expect it to be 'meaningful'. I took it as a joke post, and I merely meant to carry the joke along. Actually, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if it turned out that what he said was the absolute truth. It also wouldn't surprise me at all if it weren't.
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 18:23:48 GMT -5
Post by astralrejection on Nov 27, 2012 18:23:48 GMT -5
I was really talking about Chucara more than you.
In other news, scotch club tonight! See you guys in a bit!
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 19:53:50 GMT -5
Post by wombat99 on Nov 27, 2012 19:53:50 GMT -5
Hmmmmm. <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"> <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 12px">I was just looking at post counts in the thread (something I keep track of every game), and noticed that we have 23 posts by user LightFoot4 posts by user lightfootI do seem to recall we went through this same thing a few games ago, and she came under quite a bit of suspicion for posting under 2 different user names. I suspect the same may happen here. We might as well get it out of the way early... Again, very helpfully pointing out a potential controversy, ostensibly to ward off unproductive discussion. I think you're subtly trying to start a bandwagon on someone not on your team by throwing these things out there and seeing if anything gains traction. And you got bites on both posts. Unvote: MHaye Vote: Suburban Plankton [/color]
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 19:58:36 GMT -5
Post by Sister Coyote on Nov 27, 2012 19:58:36 GMT -5
I am vaguely concerned because usually wombat and I are at loggerheads -- and this time I agree completely and was just coming in to make a very similar post about dear old Burby's tactics there.
vote: Suburban Plankton
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Day One
Nov 27, 2012 20:19:07 GMT -5
Post by dizzymrslizzy on Nov 27, 2012 20:19:07 GMT -5
I do agree with the others. Why (Suburban) if you believe it was just a joke did you make it a point of harping on it here? And yeah the Lightfoot thing was explained a few games ago, with many of the same players, so again it's a weird thing to harp on again here.
Where's the line in the sand of talking about a game outside of a game?
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