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Post by wombat99 on Feb 26, 2013 19:39:29 GMT -5
Moley, isn't it possible that there is no traditional scum night kill and the deaths have been for other reasons, such as investigations gone wrong? You don't seem to be giving that idea much weight. I was the one who suggested that idea in the first place. I'm giving it a LOT of weight. I'm inclined to believe that it's true. My train of thought got interrupted on this. Then why is it so urgent that you figure out who the last Killer is if there's a good chance they aren't a Devil? I guess I don't understand your claimed power.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 26, 2013 20:33:07 GMT -5
I was the one who suggested that idea in the first place. I'm giving it a LOT of weight. I'm inclined to believe that it's true. My train of thought got interrupted on this. Then why is it so urgent that you figure out who the last Killer is if there's a good chance they aren't a Devil? I guess I don't understand your claimed power. Apart from the fact that a "good chance" doesn't equal certainty? There are claimed Christians who say that their roles include powers that include, specifically, protection from being killed at night by a devil. I haven't seen any sign of a dead devil killer yet. Here's what I can say for certain: - I have an investigative power that works on role types, not people. - Certain aspects of that power are within my control. Other aspects are not. - I can't be redirected or tracked, as I don't visit and cannot investigate specific people. - There are aspects to my role that I have not revealed yet, both in terms of benefits and of limitations. I have no intention of revealing those aspects until it would be useful for me to do so. Revealing them beforehand won't benefit any group other than the devils, and it won't persuade anybody not to lynch me if they're still determined to do so. Here's where my mind is at right now: I think the devils may win the game by a combination of recruitments and kills. I think they probably started this game few in number, and I think there's probably been at least one recruitment since then. I also think it's possible that they have the option to either recruit or kill at night, or that they have alternate nights where they kill and / or recruit. (This would explain my last two findings.) All of this is speculation but it's the best I can do right now. Final point: the scum nightkill may not count as a "power" as such, the same way that the lynch is not a "power". That's what's been causing me so much bother.
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Post by crys on Feb 26, 2013 21:16:02 GMT -5
Also, I got an offer of lust slaking again. Same message as before. Whoever is sending them to me, don't bother. I'm sin-free right now and I don't want to do anything to cause more sin, if I can help it...so I'm going to keep on declining. I am going to offer one of the claimed masons cleansing toDay, and I personally can start looking elsewhere with one cleanse. Have you already cleansed one of the claimed masons Ryjae? If you have I would be willing to let that go for now. Maybe now would be a good time to try cleansing someone that hasn't claimed or someone you feel isn't being truthful...It is entirely up to you, but narrowing down the other pool of unknowns would be of more help to town I would think. This is just my opinion however. If you haven't cleansed one of the claimed masons then go for it lol
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Post by crys on Feb 26, 2013 21:17:55 GMT -5
My train of thought got interrupted on this. Then why is it so urgent that you figure out who the last Killer is if there's a good chance they aren't a Devil? I guess I don't understand your claimed power. Apart from the fact that a "good chance" doesn't equal certainty? There are claimed Christians who say that their roles include powers that include, specifically, protection from being killed at night by a devil. I haven't seen any sign of a dead devil killer yet. Here's what I can say for certain: - I have an investigative power that works on role types, not people. - Certain aspects of that power are within my control. Other aspects are not. - I can't be redirected or tracked, as I don't visit and cannot investigate specific people. - There are aspects to my role that I have not revealed yet, both in terms of benefits and of limitations. I have no intention of revealing those aspects until it would be useful for me to do so. Revealing them beforehand won't benefit any group other than the devils, and it won't persuade anybody not to lynch me if they're still determined to do so. Here's where my mind is at right now: I think the devils may win the game by a combination of recruitments and kills. I think they probably started this game few in number, and I think there's probably been at least one recruitment since then. I also think it's possible that they have the option to either recruit or kill at night, or that they have alternate nights where they kill and / or recruit. (This would explain my last two findings.) All of this is speculation but it's the best I can do right now. Final point: the scum nightkill may not count as a "power" as such, the same way that the lynch is not a "power". That's what's been causing me so much bother. Have you asked pleo about that? Chances are he gave you an equally cryptic answser lmao If I were modding a game I wouldn't have a night kill be a power. I would categorize it like a lynch personally.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 26, 2013 21:27:02 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey and MrV, I would like to know why you felt comfortable freely sharing information about your Cardinal Sin, given that we were warned never to let the Devils figure them out and that if they do, the Devils can take our souls. I didn't tell you anything about my Cardinal Sin. I told you what I was able to do when I decided to sin. There is a difference.
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Post by wombat99 on Feb 26, 2013 21:32:13 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey and MrV, I would like to know why you felt comfortable freely sharing information about your Cardinal Sin, given that we were warned never to let the Devils figure them out and that if they do, the Devils can take our souls. I didn't tell you anything about my Cardinal Sin. I told you what I was able to do when I decided to sin. There is a difference. If a Devil happens to have the same Sin as you do, then revealing the power is the same as revealing which Sin you have.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 26, 2013 21:47:31 GMT -5
Holy I see your point of view, and I just plain disagree with it. I 100% do not believe that Christians, Heretics, and Pagans can win together. Frankly I don't think that "Christians" will win together as a group, but each person individually will win/lose based on what happens in the "afterlife"
I don't like the way you have played this game from Day 1, and I still don't like it on Day 5.
The fact is I don't really think you are the best lynch today, and I'm going to wait to see what happens with the mass claim, but I'm not happy with you.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Feb 26, 2013 22:58:45 GMT -5
I didn't tell you anything about my Cardinal Sin. I told you what I was able to do when I decided to sin. There is a difference. If a Devil happens to have the same Sin as you do, then revealing the power is the same as revealing which Sin you have. I don't think Pleo would give exactly matching Sins/Powers to both good guys and bad guys. Possible, yes, but I don't think it's probable.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 26, 2013 23:01:15 GMT -5
Apart from the fact that a "good chance" doesn't equal certainty? There are claimed Christians who say that their roles include powers that include, specifically, protection from being killed at night by a devil. I haven't seen any sign of a dead devil killer yet. Here's what I can say for certain: - I have an investigative power that works on role types, not people. - Certain aspects of that power are within my control. Other aspects are not. - I can't be redirected or tracked, as I don't visit and cannot investigate specific people. - There are aspects to my role that I have not revealed yet, both in terms of benefits and of limitations. I have no intention of revealing those aspects until it would be useful for me to do so. Revealing them beforehand won't benefit any group other than the devils, and it won't persuade anybody not to lynch me if they're still determined to do so. Here's where my mind is at right now: I think the devils may win the game by a combination of recruitments and kills. I think they probably started this game few in number, and I think there's probably been at least one recruitment since then. I also think it's possible that they have the option to either recruit or kill at night, or that they have alternate nights where they kill and / or recruit. (This would explain my last two findings.) All of this is speculation but it's the best I can do right now. Final point: the scum nightkill may not count as a "power" as such, the same way that the lynch is not a "power". That's what's been causing me so much bother. Have you asked pleo about that? Chances are he gave you an equally cryptic answser lmao If I were modding a game I wouldn't have a night kill be a power. I would categorize it like a lynch personally. I've asked Pleo and posted exactly what I've asked and his responses. Check my past posts - I think it was in a night thread somewhere.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 26, 2013 23:01:36 GMT -5
Hmm.. This is just a theory, but I have only played in one game with recruitment before. We just don't seem to be catching any scum, and everyone seems to have been cleared somehow, so would it be possible that there were only a few devils in the game from the beginning and that the rest of the potential scum team has to become devils somehow?
Also, that perhaps only players with sufficient sins can be recruited? Or are maybe even recruited automatically?
Something just seems off in this game, but I don't know what it is. By this point, I usually have plenty of people I'd think were scum, but they all seem to be cleared a bit too easily.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 26, 2013 23:28:55 GMT -5
Holy I see your point of view, and I just plain disagree with it. I 100% do not believe that Christians, Heretics, and Pagans can win together. Frankly I don't think that "Christians" will win together as a group, but each person individually will win/lose based on what happens in the "afterlife" I don't like the way you have played this game from Day 1, and I still don't like it on Day 5. The fact is I don't really think you are the best lynch today, and I'm going to wait to see what happens with the mass claim, but I'm not happy with you. Let me take this bit by bit. "I don't like the way you have played this game from Day 1..." I haven't liked the way you've played this game from the start, and especially now, but I'm not going to vote you or lynch you because of it. Try and understand where I'm coming from here. "I 100% do not believe that Christians, Heretics, and Pagans can win together." A whole bunch of claimed Christians are very conveniently saying this, and nobody has yet produced a shred of evidence that it's actually the case. I've produced solid - I would say conclusive - evidence to support my position. At the very least, you have to admit that if the Christians can steal the win from the Heretics or Pagans, or vice versa, then the game is fundamentally broken. Pleonast has hosted a bunch of times. He's not going to make a broken game! "The fact is I don't really think you are the best lynch today" Then why are you still voting for me? I at least had no problems taking my vote off you when HockeyMonkey made his claim. I doubt you're looking to put us in the same position as Pollux was in when he got lynched. Do you understand that that is exactly what you're doing? Might I suggest that you move your vote to an actual devil suspect. Like one of the three I'm currently voting. - Like Guiri, who STILL has not said anything about why he would investigate somebody who's just been declared a Christian by Wombat, regardless of his feelings about Wombat herself. (And no, pointing out how you "breadcrumbed" somebody doesn't do anything for me. I "breadcrumbed" Heretic throughout Day Two, and apparently Guiri himself was the only person who even noticed - and now he's conveniently decided to retract that, as well.) As I pointed out, the only way I can see this being a town-centric move is if he's able to check Plankton's alignment. All the other stuff he might check - sins, cardinal sins, powers, roles - seems to me to benefit the devils, not the various non-devil aligned powers. - Or like Scathach, who is literally the only person who hasn't been confirmed as town by anybody who was a leading lynch contender on the day when Pollux was eliminated (the others being yourself, Texcat, and Plankton); who voted Patricia at the critical time when it was early enough for a fellow devil to bandwagon without looking suspicious, but late enough that the lynch wagon looked steady; and whose claimed role name is a colloquialism for Satan. - Or like CatInASuit, whose predecessor KidVermicious jumped on the bandwagons of two players - a Pagan and a Christian - without any kind of questioning of scepticism, who is one of the few remaining players who hasn't made any kind of claim at all, and who also voted Patricia at the critical time mentioned above. Can I get some opinions on those people? Or anybody else? Before I go completely mad here? Honestly I feel like the proverbial one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind right now.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 26, 2013 23:53:20 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey and MrV, I would like to know why you felt comfortable freely sharing information about your Cardinal Sin, given that we were warned never to let the Devils figure them out and that if they do, the Devils can take our souls. I didn't tell you anything about my Cardinal Sin. I told you what I was able to do when I decided to sin. There is a difference. How about mistervisceral then? He told us flat out that "lust slaking" had absolutely nothing to do with recruiting. Then dizzy basically told us that mrv was the person sending at least some of those PMs. And neither of them has responded to my questions on the subject. Now I suppose that "lust slaking" might have nothing at all to do with Lust (with a Capital L for Cardinal Sin), but it certainly seems that way, doesn't it? Surely I'm not the only person who sees it that way...(surely I'm not, because wombat has been asking the same questions...so surely we're not the only two?) Also, I think I'm not the only one who's a bit uneasy with the fact that two of our three Masons have decided it's time to go all Spanish Inquisition on everyone (bet you didn't expect that, did you?) and just lynch anyone who's not Christian, and ceasing any apparent effort at trying to find any Devils among us.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 27, 2013 0:00:00 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey and MrV, I would like to know why you felt comfortable freely sharing information about your Cardinal Sin, given that we were warned never to let the Devils figure them out and that if they do, the Devils can take our souls. How exactly do you know that the devils take our souls if they guess our cardinal sin? I did not know that.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 0:05:24 GMT -5
Okay I have the Randomized the player list to get an order for a Mass Claim.
I'm also going to Unvote: Everyone Until we get through this or it gets closer to EOD.
First up for a Claim is: Colby
How do the players suggesting a Mass Claim want to do this? Do you want me to post the whole randomized list? Or do you want it one at a time like this?
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Feb 27, 2013 0:07:53 GMT -5
Holy In almost every game I've played in there has been a 3rd party that isn't mentioned in my Role PM that I have to beat. I didn't consider any of them Gastard.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 0:17:31 GMT -5
Hockey Monkey and MrV, I would like to know why you felt comfortable freely sharing information about your Cardinal Sin, given that we were warned never to let the Devils figure them out and that if they do, the Devils can take our souls. How exactly do you know that the devils take our souls if they guess our cardinal sin? I did not know that. Because Idle told us on D1, it's in his PM.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 0:32:09 GMT -5
This game, by its very nature has everyone hiding things. The Devils have to hide the fact that they are Devils, the rest of us have to hide Cardinal sins so even with a mass claim not everything will be revealed.
There are a couple of things that I would like to know though, we have been told that LightFoot is in heaven, fair enough, but unless someone cleansed her of her sins, how did she get there? She started off with an Initial sin and by letting someone slake their lust with her she gained another sin. I have just read that you can't get into heaven with a sin. Did she mention a sin cleansing?
The second thing, and it's related to the first point is that if LightFoot is in heaven without her sins being cleansed (I can't find anything that makes me think they were but I could have missed it) then why do some people reject an offer of protection out of hand just because you will gain a sin? Yes, I know you want to stay squeaky clean but does it help us if you are killed at night?
I am going to
Vote Suburban Plankton
not because I think he is scum but because I can investigate what happens to him toNight.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 27, 2013 0:37:02 GMT -5
This game, by its very nature has everyone hiding things. The Devils have to hide the fact that they are Devils, the rest of us have to hide Cardinal sins so even with a mass claim not everything will be revealed. There are a couple of things that I would like to know though, we have been told that LightFoot is in heaven, fair enough, but unless someone cleansed her of her sins, how did she get there? She started off with an Initial sin and by letting someone slake their lust with her she gained another sin. I have just read that you can't get into heaven with a sin. Did she mention a sin cleansing? The second thing, and it's related to the first point is that if LightFoot is in heaven without her sins being cleansed (I can't find anything that makes me think they were but I could have missed it) then why do some people reject an offer of protection out of hand just because you will gain a sin? Yes, I know you want to stay squeaky clean but does it help us if you are killed at night? I am going to Vote Suburban Planktonnot because I think he is scum but because I can investigate what happens to him toNight. Because I prayed for her last night. When I pray for someone it cleanses half of their sins.
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Post by JustBeingGinger on Feb 27, 2013 0:37:57 GMT -5
How exactly do you know that the devils take our souls if they guess our cardinal sin? I did not know that. Because Idle told us on D1, it's in his PM. I must of missed that part. Thanks for clearing that up. Will go back and look.
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Post by Silver Jan on Feb 27, 2013 1:02:56 GMT -5
This game, by its very nature has everyone hiding things. The Devils have to hide the fact that they are Devils, the rest of us have to hide Cardinal sins so even with a mass claim not everything will be revealed. There are a couple of things that I would like to know though, we have been told that LightFoot is in heaven, fair enough, but unless someone cleansed her of her sins, how did she get there? She started off with an Initial sin and by letting someone slake their lust with her she gained another sin. I have just read that you can't get into heaven with a sin. Did she mention a sin cleansing? The second thing, and it's related to the first point is that if LightFoot is in heaven without her sins being cleansed (I can't find anything that makes me think they were but I could have missed it) then why do some people reject an offer of protection out of hand just because you will gain a sin? Yes, I know you want to stay squeaky clean but does it help us if you are killed at night? I am going to Vote Suburban Planktonnot because I think he is scum but because I can investigate what happens to him toNight. Because I prayed for her last night. When I pray for someone it cleanses half of their sins. But then she would have been left with 1 sin, surely.
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 27, 2013 1:11:43 GMT -5
Okay I have the Randomized the player list to get an order for a Mass Claim. I'm also going to Unvote: EveryoneUntil we get through this or it gets closer to EOD. First up for a Claim is: ColbyHow do the players suggesting a Mass Claim want to do this? Do you want me to post the whole randomized list? Or do you want it one at a time like this? I am not a detective. Happy? (hears shouts of No plus some profanities) Geez, keep your britches on.... 16. The Penitent, Christian, Killer/Mechanic - Solaris colby11Role Name: The PenitentAlignment: Christian Victory Conditions:1. You must stop the Devils from winning. You don't exactly know what that entails, but here are some hints: a. Lynching or killing Devils will always help your team. b. Removing your sins will always help your team, but increasing them may or may not be beneficial. c. Never reveal to another player nor allow another player to figure out your Cardinal Sin. Role Type: Mechanic Powers: 1. Each Night, if you are without sin, you may choose to remove all sin from a player. 2. Each Night, if you have sin, you must spend the Night in prayer. This will remove all sin from you. Initial Sins: 0
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 27, 2013 1:17:40 GMT -5
This game, by its very nature has everyone hiding things. The Devils have to hide the fact that they are Devils, the rest of us have to hide Cardinal sins so even with a mass claim not everything will be revealed. There are a couple of things that I would like to know though, we have been told that LightFoot is in heaven, fair enough, but unless someone cleansed her of her sins, how did she get there? She started off with an Initial sin and by letting someone slake their lust with her she gained another sin. I have just read that you can't get into heaven with a sin. Did she mention a sin cleansing? The second thing, and it's related to the first point is that if LightFoot is in heaven without her sins being cleansed (I can't find anything that makes me think they were but I could have missed it) then why do some people reject an offer of protection out of hand just because you will gain a sin? Yes, I know you want to stay squeaky clean but does it help us if you are killed at night? Because I prayed for her last night. When I pray for someone it cleanses half of their sins. Ginger, your claim indicates that you can tell where a player's soul is. To me, that would suggest that LightFoot's soul was already in Heaven before you prayed for her...or possibly that she entered Heaven at the same time that you were praying for her (depending on the order in which Night actions are evaluated)...but I don't see anything to suggest that your prayers last Night sent her there. Am I the only person who is surprised that a Pagan would wind up in Heaven in any case?
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Colby11
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Post by Colby11 on Feb 27, 2013 1:32:25 GMT -5
Well, cats out of the bag... Good job editing idiot
I am the mysterious Town killer. I killed Lightfoot so that I was sure that we weren't dealing with a scum cover. The only catch is that I can only kill if I have no sins.
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Chucara
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Post by Chucara on Feb 27, 2013 3:30:19 GMT -5
Colby11: I'm confused.. How is your role a killing role? It may be the Indian food finally gnawing at my brain, but didn't you just post a role PM that stated your could clear someone of sins?
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Post by BillMc on Feb 27, 2013 3:35:11 GMT -5
Well, cats out of the bag... Good job editing idiot I am the mysterious Town killer. I killed Lightfoot so that I was sure that we weren't dealing with a scum cover. The only catch is that I can only kill if I have no sins. uh? you remove their sin by killing them? colour me confused - you say you posted your PM, but it didnt actually say you kill someone I totally agree that having all non-devil factions win together is unlikely - no point having them. It is quite possible that that "winner" will be decided by who has the most souls in heaven. And by the rules, the dead still have some input to the game - tho exactly what is as clear as mud. wrt to pollux - interesting to note that the only day lightfoot finished the day with her vote on the lynch leader was the day the lynch leader didnt get lynched.
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Post by BillMc on Feb 27, 2013 3:36:16 GMT -5
Ginger - I'd like to know why you chose to pray for lightfoot - given she was not christian?
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 5:11:38 GMT -5
Well, cats out of the bag... Good job editing idiot I am the mysterious Town killer. I killed Lightfoot so that I was sure that we weren't dealing with a scum cover. The only catch is that I can only kill if I have no sins. uh? you remove their sin by killing them? colour me confused - you say you posted your PM, but it didnt actually say you kill someone He tried to edit out the killing parts of his role, but he left in the "killer/mechanic" in the first sentence of his claim.
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 6:34:55 GMT -5
Oh, and one last thing. Pollux's lynch is still unexplained. This doesn't absolutely mean that it was a devil power that caused it - it may be a Christian or another non-devil player who made a mistake - but it looks increasingly likely. If Texcat and Plankton are both Christian then I'm tempted to look at the third person who was in danger, Scathach. . Seems like a bit of a leap considering I was voting for Pollux and Plankton. Also, frankly, if Texcat and Plankton were both Christian and I was a devil, why would I give a fiddlers who got lynched as long as it wasn't me. "Tempted to look at" is awfully smudgy also, why not have a good look at it and then post something definite. I've had misgivings about him before - specifically about his role title - I again find it difficult to believe that the mods would accidentally give a Christian a role title that is associated with Satan in a game where the antagonists are devils. . You keep on repeating this and it keeps on being bullshit. I have never heard "gravedigger" as being associated with Satan in any way shape or form. Now, you might say it's a macabre role title for a Christian, and that's fair enough, but to push into actual association with the devil is just reaching. His "gravedigger" role could easily be associated with devils as well as Christians, and there's no guarantee that it's the only power that he has. (There's no guarantee that it even exists, either, although I'm inclined to believe that he's told the truth about that. There's a certain symmetry about having a Christian complete the day reveals, and a devil complete the night ones.) Why would a devil reveal night kills? Finally, he was the other person, apart from KidV, who voted Patricia just when her lynch was starting to look like a serious likelihood. Again, I think it's very likely that at least one devil voted her at this time. Assuming the devils knew each others' identities (which I think is a fair assumption at least - it would likely unbalance the game if devils could lynch each other accidentally). I voted patricia almost immediately after Idle posted that according to his role PM all Christians had sin. Seemed like a no brainer.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Feb 27, 2013 6:44:01 GMT -5
Well, cats out of the bag... Good job editing idiot I am the mysterious Town killer. I killed Lightfoot so that I was sure that we weren't dealing with a scum cover. The only catch is that I can only kill if I have no sins. Aaaaaaaaaaaargh. Duuuuuuuude. NOT cool. At least Lightfoot is in heaven (and may that be some comfort to poor Crys. By the way, did I mention that I have only days to go before my retirement? Plus several small children who would be heartbroken to lose their Daddy if... ah, what the heck, the guilt trip ain't gonna work if I get lynched before nightfall.) That does bring up an interesting point though. Firstly: who was responsible for the previous kills? Did the Martyr die as a result of role-related shenanigans, the same as the Duellist? And if so, who was it who had role PMs specifying protection from being killed by a devil (I can't find it anywhere)? Plankton - I'm just as surprised as you that a Pagan can end up in heaven. Although I'm actually pretty optimistic about it. Honestly, I thought I was hell-bound for certain if I died, therefore my best shot of winning was to outlive the devils. (That's not going so well thus far.) DizzyMrsLizzy - I'm not worried about HOW you post the order, but I absolutely want claims from Guiri and CatInASuit. Guiri's investigative role makes no sense to me as a Christian role, given his actions last night, unless he can investigate alignment and thereby check if Wombat is lying, which I agree absolutely makes sense; anything else seems to me a waste of investigation for a Christian, but could very well be an attempt to gain valuable info to use against a semi-confirmed Christian for a devil. I'm not "getting" his breadcrumbs. And what was up with the "drinks" comments earlier on? I don't understand this at all. As for CIAS, I haven't heard a thing yet to convince me that KidV's actions, especially on Day Two, were anything but devil-motivated. In particular his total lack of scepticism regarding the Lightfoot and SisterCoyote bandwagons seem completely uncharacteristic of KidV's town playstyle.
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Post by scáthach on Feb 27, 2013 6:49:58 GMT -5
Well, cats out of the bag... Good job editing idiot I am the mysterious Town killer. I killed Lightfoot so that I was sure that we weren't dealing with a scum cover. The only catch is that I can only kill if I have no sins. I got a PM at dawn saying that Lauriern challenged me to a duel last Night and she lost. I don't have a killing role so she must have inadvertently killed herself. taking these at face value for the moment, seems like we've been a while without a scum kill.
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