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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 8:58:26 GMT -5
Well, just for example, imagine Company of Champions has a special power that allows them to be investigated as non-hostile when they are actually baddies.
Swammi, nicely cleared as neutral third-party, and almost certainly not a traitor, is approached by Cookies, apparent non-hostile, to join her covenant, maybe with a special bonus or power, Swammi jumps at the offer, especially as he previously refused an offer from WotB and may not have another one.
Swammi then realizes that he's now part of the baddies, but must leverage his goodwill in their favor, so he reminds everyone how instrumental he was against the known scum covenants.
I'm not convinced by Cookies' reticence to share anything about the covenant is starting to ping and her calling Swammi "Swammer", a name he hates, makes me question the terms of their collaboration.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 10:34:52 GMT -5
I'd ask those accusing either Cookies or myself how they reconcile their suspicion with my argument. This is like saying Go start a fire with used matches.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 10:36:38 GMT -5
Well, just for example, imagine Company of Champions has a special power that allows them to be investigated as non-hostile when they are actually baddies. Swammi, nicely cleared as neutral third-party, and almost certainly not a traitor, is approached by Cookies, apparent non-hostile, to join her covenant, maybe with a special bonus or power, Swammi jumps at the offer, especially as he previously refused an offer from WotB and may not have another one. Swammi then realizes that he's now part of the baddies, but must leverage his goodwill in their favor, so he reminds everyone how instrumental he was against the known scum covenants. I'm not convinced by Cookies' reticence to share anything about the covenant is starting to ping and her calling Swammi "Swammer", a name he hates, makes me question the terms of their collaboration. Guiri are you playing Devil's advocate here? Because my line of thought has been not dissimilar to this. Just to have another player say it... Does wonders.
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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 10:40:40 GMT -5
Meeko, that argument would apply to you too, you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostile and so once you fooled Colby, you are capitalizing on your "proven" towniness...
I continue to believe that it's best to deal with the few unconfirmed, either through a mass claim, lynches, or investigations, and then, if the game still isn't over and the traitor isn't found, loop back to find the traitor among the confirmed.
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Post by bufftabby on Sept 23, 2014 12:22:28 GMT -5
Meeko, that argument would apply to you too, you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostile and so once you fooled Colby, you are capitalizing on your "proven" towniness... I continue to believe that it's best to deal with the few unconfirmed, either through a mass claim, lynches, or investigations, and then, if the game still isn't over and the traitor isn't found, loop back to find the traitor among the confirmed. I am in agreement with this.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 23, 2014 12:34:02 GMT -5
Abstain: you insist on claiming last and I'm the one playing games? That's rich.
I am not WOTB, but I have certainly and consciously helped, big time, WOTB on multiple occasions, sometimes to the detriment of me and mine, but my philanthropy has limits and your opinion on claim order is one of them.
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Post by sinjin on Sept 23, 2014 13:32:24 GMT -5
guiri: Given we have already come across two hostile to WOTB covenants do you really think there is a third under cover covenant that can recruit AND that falsely investigates as non-hostile. What kind of game balancing is that? You are a better player than that! It seems like you are trying to spread distrust in the investigations so far even.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:34:21 GMT -5
Meeko, that argument would apply to you too, you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostile and so once you fooled Colby, you are capitalizing on your "proven" towniness... you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostileDoctor, the patient has relapsed. Being Town is it's own special power now? - Ok, who is the vote leader right now? So glad to see that capitalization at work. - I'm not sure how many more ways I can say this: I'm WOTB, I'm town.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:39:32 GMT -5
Meeko, that argument would apply to you too, you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostile and so once you fooled Colby, you are capitalizing on your "proven" towniness... I continue to believe that it's best to deal with the few unconfirmed, either through a mass claim, lynches, or investigations, and then, if the game still isn't over and the traitor isn't found, loop back to find the traitor among the confirmed. So, you are calling game the traitor in the first half, but you aren't so sure in the second half?
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:40:34 GMT -5
Game=Me
Ios 8 now with even more auto correct to hate.
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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 13:44:33 GMT -5
guiri: Given we have already come across two hostile to WOTB covenants do you really think there is a third under cover covenant that can recruit AND that falsely investigates as non-hostile. What kind of game balancing is that? You are a better player than that! It seems like you are trying to spread distrust in the investigations so far even. Absolutely not, and I do not see how you read that from my post. It was just a scenario where the pieces fit together in response to Swammi's challenge. As I said, I am not entertaining the cases against Meeko or Cookies whatsoever until we've worked our way through the unconfirmed, Occam's razor and all that.
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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 13:49:15 GMT -5
Meeko, that argument would apply to you too, you have a special power which allows you to investigate as non-hostile and so once you fooled Colby, you are capitalizing on your "proven" towniness... I continue to believe that it's best to deal with the few unconfirmed, either through a mass claim, lynches, or investigations, and then, if the game still isn't over and the traitor isn't found, loop back to find the traitor among the confirmed. So, you are calling game the traitor in the first half, but you aren't so sure in the second half?Absolutely not, are my posts so confusing? If you are willing to believe Cookies has some super godfather ability that makes her appear as non-hostile, then you should understand why others may believe you may have a power that makes you appear as non-hostile and WotB...
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:49:30 GMT -5
From where I sit, and I would think most all of the rest of us (save one) I wonder what advantage and motivation Colby has in delaying his result.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:54:03 GMT -5
So, you are calling game the traitor in the first half, but you aren't so sure in the second half? Absolutely not, are my posts so confusing? If you are willing to believe Cookies has some super godfather ability that makes her appear as non-hostile, then you should understand why others may believe you may have a power that makes you appear as non-hostile and WotB... You posted nearly the same a bit up thread. You suggested it. If you think Cookies is, then how am I? I'm still working on how you arrived at inherently knowing that I'm the Traitor. Because I'm not. Further, you seem to imply that more than one person can give false positives. I can't even begin to figure the math on that, is it addition, multiplication, exponential, or order of magnitude, more game breaking to have a second false detected role in a game? It would be astronomical.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 13:59:12 GMT -5
As I said, I am not entertaining the cases against Meeko or Cookies whatsoever until we've worked our way through the unconfirmed, Occam's razor and all that. You are coming off quite the opposite of this. I feel like, and have posted as such, as if I have to re rehash my arguements. Although, I follow you on Occam's .... I was about to utter it again on my behalf, but glad to see that someone else is using it here. [[ Take that, whoever it was that always says i misuse the term! ]] Perhaps we can explain Occam's to the bandwagon on me.Then again, I'm certain scum is on that wagon, so perhaps not.
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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 14:00:31 GMT -5
Meeko, Swammi asked for a scenario where both he and Cookies could be lying while Colby's and Sinjin's results could be true, I simply proposed one. I was not making a case.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 14:02:52 GMT -5
Although,
I think I found something that in theory, would work out to be more devastating than having multiple third parties with false positives.
A Detective that is hostile to town / falsely detects as town himself.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 14:07:00 GMT -5
Meeko, Swammi asked for a scenario where both he and Cookies could be lying while Colby's and Sinjin's results could be true, I simply proposed one. I was not making a case. Yeah, no. I mean I figured this. I was stating where I was coming from, in an attempt to depart from it.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 14:07:53 GMT -5
Well, just for example, imagine Company of Champions has a special power that allows them to be investigated as non-hostile when they are actually baddies. Swammi, nicely cleared as neutral third-party, and almost certainly not a traitor, is approached by Cookies, apparent non-hostile, to join her covenant, maybe with a special bonus or power, Swammi jumps at the offer, especially as he previously refused an offer from WotB and may not have another one. Swammi then realizes that he's now part of the baddies, but must leverage his goodwill in their favor, so he reminds everyone how instrumental he was against the known scum covenants. I'm not convinced by Cookies' reticence to share anything about the covenant is starting to ping and her calling Swammi "Swammer", a name he hates, makes me question the terms of their collaboration. Guiri are you playing Devil's advocate here? Because my line of thought has been not dissimilar to this. Just to have another player say it... Does wonders. So Guiri it was the Devil's advocate thing, then?
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Post by guiri on Sept 23, 2014 14:35:53 GMT -5
So Guiri it was the Devil's advocate thing, then? I suppose so, but not to argue the merits of either scenario, just to propose the scenario in response to the request.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 23, 2014 15:20:39 GMT -5
Although, I think I found something that in theory, would work out to be more devastating than having multiple third parties with false positives. A Detective that is hostile to town / falsely detects as town himself. I would think it would be a little gastardly to have a Scum Cop that scanned as Town. Now not to say that Scum couldn't pretend to be a Cop and as such a Scum that scanned as Town pretending to be a Cop would be a really interesting play. BUT in this set up, it's way way way too complicated to fabricate whether people are Town, Third Party Non-Hostile, and Third Party Hostile. I think a scum that tried that would be ultra ballsy, and such, I don't think that either scenario is happening here. It just happened like last week in a 3 way at the end of the game, that FSWG claimed to be a Cop, but he was really just Scum trying to throw suspicion elsewhere, and It was obvious to me that he was claiming Cop because it was the easiest thing to fake, it was a simpler game, and he knew everyone else was Town. But again, different scenario, and he would have scanned Scum not Town.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 15:21:09 GMT -5
So Guiri it was the Devil's advocate thing, then? I suppose so, but not to argue the merits of either scenario, just to propose the scenario in response to the request. No, we wouldn't want to be accused of snuggling. And it's not like I could use the help.
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Post by Meeko on Sept 23, 2014 15:24:08 GMT -5
Although, I think I found something that in theory, would work out to be more devastating than having multiple third parties with false positives. A Detective that is hostile to town / falsely detects as town himself. I would think it would be a little gastardly to have a Scum Cop that scanned as Town. Now not to say that Scum couldn't pretend to be a Cop and as such a Scum that scanned as Town pretending to be a Cop would be a really interesting play. BUT in this set up, it's way way way too complicated to fabricate whether people are Town, Third Party Non-Hostile, and Third Party Hostile. I think a scum that tried that would be ultra ballsy, and such, I don't think that either scenario is happening here. It just happened like last week in a 3 way at the end of the game, that FSWG claimed to be a Cop, but he was really just Scum trying to throw suspicion elsewhere, and It was obvious to me that he was claiming Cop because it was the easiest thing to fake, it was a simpler game, and he knew everyone else was Town. But again, different scenario, and he would have scanned Scum not Town. Dizzy then to counter, can you think why Colby is delaying his result from last night? Cause it's puzzling me.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 23, 2014 15:30:51 GMT -5
I have absolutely no clue why Colby is delaying his result. Because from my POV stand his result should be Third Party, Non-Hostile. It's really not that drama filled at all.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 23, 2014 17:00:52 GMT -5
I have absolutely no clue why Colby is delaying his result. Because from my POV stand his result should be Third Party, Non-Hostile. It's really not that drama filled at all. So you're claiming Brotherhood of Blood ? Don't be so cryptic; just blurt it out! This leaves only Abstain and Guiri and Gnarly as major uncleared non-claimants. Is it odd that two of these are calling for claims yet unwilling to start? Is Day over? Meeko, poised on the guillotine awaiting the blade, is it anti-Town not to reveal what you know?
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Post by sinjin on Sept 23, 2014 17:31:09 GMT -5
Unvote: extend day
I thought the Day ended toDay, but it ends tomorrow.
I would like to here from Guiri, gnarly, abstain and dizzy. One of whom I know is town, but know why they are not claiming before the other three. Also colby who is playing this way too short. Come on people, let's play mafia.
Guiri if you are really interested in the unclaimed/investigated pool, claim. I am on the verge of changing my vote from Meeko to you. You have talked the talk on claiming but not walked the walk. In that group of 4 there is at least one scum and possibly another hostile at my best guess.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 23, 2014 17:47:37 GMT -5
fwiw, I have an open query to Story that has been open for a good bit. There may be some similar circumstances going on, but I'd prefer people speak up like I just did than have the game suffer your silences.
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Post by dizzymrslizzy on Sept 23, 2014 17:52:50 GMT -5
So swami/cookies. Are you planning on killing me now? Not knowing what cookies PM says and her win con is quite disconcerting at this point.
Ya see cookies isn't claiming (and I'm assuming from reading in between the lines) because I am playing a side game with another covenant which in assuming is cookies/swammi. But since I've been called out and well who knows their win con could be to find and kill me for all I know.
I am third party non hostile. My side of the game is similar to a bingo player as my whole win con is a side game that I will not elaborate more on. All I can say is that I'm Town sided.
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Post by swammerdami on Sept 23, 2014 18:09:43 GMT -5
I agree with Sinjin. (And with guiri who opposes the Lynching of Town-investigated Meeko.) I'll fire into the non-claimant pool: Unvote: Meeko
Vote: abstainSo swami/cookies. Are you planning on killing me now? I can't speak for my Mistress, but send me just two Souls, and I'll promise not to Kill you myself....
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Post by abstain on Sept 23, 2014 18:35:22 GMT -5
This is not third party ville. I like third parties, but if they claim, they need to cooperate, otherwise I have no qualms about lynching them.
I can't imagine there being more than 5 factions in a game this size. Makes it a bit unfair for town if true.
Still missing maybe Magerold/Rat King from scum to lynch.
Re: Cookies
I'm hardly playing games. I've offered to claim, you won't even give us that. I don't care how pro town you are, you're not town and playing around does not make me want to keep you around.
There is absolutely no reason to not post your wincondition in thread. It will stop me from voting you at least.
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