|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 14:53:38 GMT -5
The benefits of having a batter with a greater likelihood of getting on base to support the top of your line up when the order changes over really doesn't outweigh the fact that you want you pitchers batting as little as possible. Furthermore, at the end of a game, wouldn't the benefits of pulling off a double switch (something I only very basically have a grasp of the strategy of, being an AL fan) make it better to have the pitcher in the 9 hole? Furthermore, RoOsh, what kind of kooky fantasy baseball league gives you the option to set the order of your lineup?
discuss.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Apr 2, 2008 15:08:07 GMT -5
The benefits of having a batter with a greater likelihood of getting on base to support the top of your line up when the order changes over really doesn't outweigh the fact that you want you pitchers batting as little as possible. Furthermore, at the end of a game, wouldn't the benefits of pulling off a double switch (something I only very basically have a grasp of the strategy of, being an AL fan) make it better to have the pitcher in the 9 hole? Furthermore, RoOsh, what kind of kooky fantasy baseball league gives you the option to set the order of your lineup? discuss. While this would seem to be intuitive, the hardcore statistical models seem to suggest that it's also incorrect. At most, a team might gain a few runs from consistently batting its pitcher eighth over the course of a season, but a few runs is a few runs, and might translate to an extra win. You can double-switch a pitcher out of the 8 hole as easily as you can out of the 9, and because of the double-switch and the ability to pinch hit, your pitcher will get about the same number of at bats in a season hitting out of the eight hole as out of the nine.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 2, 2008 15:11:34 GMT -5
I can't really consider myself a baseball "fan", but I'm going to jump in here anyway. I suppose it all boils down to being anti-DH.
Treating pitchers like special fragile flowers violates what I consider to be a principle of the game. I don't like the specialization of that, or any other position, to the extent that they are considered invaluable members of the team even if the only thing they can do is throw a killer slider.
In my many years of playing ball (softball) I mostly alternated between pitcher and catcher, with a few stints at first base, and I was usually a top hitter. I suppose I gave my coaches some headaches when trying to place me in the lineup. I hated pitching though, because it was my worse position as far as my personal performance went. But, when everyone else on the team sucks more than you do at pitching, you get stuck with it.
|
|
RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
Posts: 284
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by RoOsh on Apr 2, 2008 15:17:43 GMT -5
Furthermore, RoOsh, what kind of kooky fantasy baseball league gives you the option to set the order of your lineup? discuss. www.csfbl.com -It's a fantasy baseball simulator It is a full fantasy league with each of the players being created with their own stats (and with your scouts being paid to try to "accurately" judge their stats as being true or overrated/underrated). I wondered if any Dopers played this game, and if there was interest in settng up a Private league for the Dopers perhaps (Up to 24 teams I think could participate in a league). But I'm not that much of a baseball fan, and i just play here and there, so I have yet to post about such things. Especially when I saw the level of "Baseball fannage" that some dopers have. But if you guys do create a DopeLeague, I would LOVE to join in,.
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 15:30:10 GMT -5
I can't really consider myself a baseball "fan", but I'm going to jump in here anyway. I suppose it all boils down to being anti-DH. Treating pitchers like special fragile flowers violates what I consider to be a principle of the game. I don't like the specialization of that, or any other position, to the extent that they are considered invaluable members of the team even if the only thing they can do is throw a killer slider. In theory, I agree with you, Cookies. There isn't any particular reason for pitchers not to have to bat like anyone else on the field, other than the fact that they're absolutely terrible at it. Catchers, second basemen, and shortstops are all known to be significantly less handy with a bat than other position players, but at least there are decent batters at those positions. I've heard that Dontrelle Willis is regarded as the best hitting pitcher, and he's got a career batting average of .234! The other well known hitting pitcher is Jason Marquis, who before he started training as a pinch hitter in addition to pitching, was putting up the same sub .200 performances every other pitcher in the game does. There may be some confirmation bias, as every kid who grows up pitching is taught that they can skip batting practice, but I hate watching an NL game, and knowing that when the lineup swings around to the pitcher, it's time to go grab a beer, instead of watching in inevitable flailings. I totally do agree that in rec games, the pitchers ought to bat. However, in the real game, it seems to take something out of watching a great pitcher's duel, knowing that when the two men actually face each other, they invariably make an ass of themselves.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Apr 2, 2008 15:38:06 GMT -5
Points taken. I suppose the whole pitching universe is a bit skewed in principle. No other position repeatedly torques their skeletal structure almost to the point of breaking just doing their job.
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 18:15:51 GMT -5
While this would seem to be intuitive, the hardcore statistical models seem to suggest that it's also incorrect. At most, a team might gain a few runs from consistently batting its pitcher eighth over the course of a season, but a few runs is a few runs, and might translate to an extra win. Doesn't this require having that extra batter, who's devilishly quick enough to fit in the 'wrap around' 9 hole, but a cruddy enough hitter to not go in the 1-spot? I mean, there are only so many Kenny Loftons out there, right?
|
|
|
Post by ryjae on Apr 2, 2008 18:40:28 GMT -5
What's the basedaball thing you are talking about? Sounds almost as boring as *GULP* golf.
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 18:42:15 GMT -5
Nothing is as boring as golf.
|
|
|
Post by ryjae on Apr 2, 2008 18:44:37 GMT -5
Nothing is as boring as golf. Not true, have you ever tried watching professional shuffleboard? Yes it is a sport!
|
|
RoOsh
FGM
Former BatMod
[on:Wanna see a magic trick?][of:See You, Space Cowboy....]
Posts: 284
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by RoOsh on Apr 2, 2008 19:05:14 GMT -5
Not true, have you ever tried watching professional shuffleboard? Yes it is a sport! And yet, flipping through the channels, it's always the Olympic Curling events at 3am always get my attention, and I end up watching them.
|
|
|
Post by ryjae on Apr 2, 2008 19:11:33 GMT -5
Not true, have you ever tried watching professional shuffleboard? Yes it is a sport! And yet, flipping through the channels, it's always the Olympic Curling events at 3am always get my attention, and I end up watching them. Trying to see if you can actually die from boredom? ;D
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 19:44:27 GMT -5
Nothing is as boring as golf. Not true, have you ever tried watching professional shuffleboard? Yes it is a sport! Does it count if I've -played- shuffleboard for money?
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Apr 2, 2008 19:45:23 GMT -5
Hey! HEY! I will not stand here and listen to you denigrate curling! It's a perfectly watchable sport.
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Apr 2, 2008 21:23:52 GMT -5
Hey! HEY! I will not stand here and listen to you denigrate curling! It's a perfectly watchable sport. You guys have better beer than us. Your comedians are funnier than ours. By and large, your women are more attractive. But your home-grown sports blow.
|
|
|
Post by ryjae on Apr 3, 2008 7:48:23 GMT -5
Hey! HEY! I will not stand here and listen to you denigrate curling! It's a perfectly watchable sport. You guys have better beer than us. Your comedians are funnier than ours. By and large, your women are more attractive. But your home-grown sports blow. Canada has women? I'd like some of your early morning booze if you find the hairy toothless manly look attractive on anyone let alone women. ;D ETA: Oh and I totally threadshit on a baseball thread. I've succeeded in saving you all from a boring discussion. *But Because I threadshit I would like to point out that I just Shit my pants. Repeatedly. I would like to apologize for Soiling myself. T'was chunky. Like Peanut butter. But not as yummy.
|
|
Darth Sensitive
Mome Rath
With great power comes great responsibility / That's the catchphrase of Old Uncle Ben
Posts: 18
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Darth Sensitive on Apr 3, 2008 19:44:55 GMT -5
Coulda just smited him, RoOsh.
|
|
|
Post by ryjae on Apr 3, 2008 20:06:27 GMT -5
What you had 1 karma before Darth? LMAO Giving idea's like that!
|
|