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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 9, 2008 21:16:25 GMT -5
But I do think the milk might "strengthen" certain roles perhaps. Assuming Roosh isn't telling a rather elaborate lie... and after DrainGead's fake ventriloquism last game I'm rather reluctant to rule out that possibility.
(For the reference of all players in the last game - DrainGead gave himself a fake posting restriction, swapping all of his "b"s for "g"'s. It was weird.)
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 9, 2008 21:20:52 GMT -5
So what happened to your footwear issue?
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Post by Darth Sensitive on Jun 9, 2008 21:23:56 GMT -5
I still have shoes that must be removed.
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Post by Gir! on Jun 9, 2008 21:42:54 GMT -5
But yeah- Most Uncool, Kat, most uncool. Now I have to be aware of that in the future. Yeah, I know. I was planning on saying "Yes" if you went along with it, I just had to do it in the most smart-assed way possible. I haven't decided what I think about anything else that's going on yet. Except that this might possibly be more confusing that Conspiracy.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 9, 2008 21:58:09 GMT -5
I went back and had a look at Story, and as about as I expected didn't discover a smoking gun. If you were scum, I see no reason for you to have outed yourself as you did.
I do take your point Story that even if you are a PFK, we have bigger fish to fry.
If I go by what I would consider a worst case scenairo for you and your role - i.e. You are a PFK and your win condition is zombies> town. We have plenty of time remaining to have a good long look at you, to see if we can trust a Necromancer.
As to Roosh? Woo boy. Where do I start there.
I'm torn between wanting to vote for Roosh, just to get the craziness sorted, and not voting for him, because maybe there is some rhyme or reason to his claimed role.
Let's for a moment assume Roosh is scum. Where's the advantage in doing what he is doing? I just don't see it. Why stick your head up and scream "look at me" "I'm ever so crazy"
I could get behind a Roosh lynch, but once again I think we have better opportunities today.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 1:25:55 GMT -5
I could get behind a Roosh lynch, but once again I think we have better opportunities today. I would rather you not. Instead, Greedy- could I interest you in a nice Refreshing Bottleof Ice Cold Milk? Even Smurfs need Milk!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 1:27:10 GMT -5
I still have shoes that must be removed. I will keep you in mind then, good sir. Could I interest you then Darth, in a Nice Cold Bottle of Refreshing Milk? As i REALLY REALLY do you need you all to start accepting these bottles, I'm way behind schedule!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 1:28:41 GMT -5
Molefan- Could I interest YOU in a nice cold Bottle of Refreshing Milk?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 1:30:05 GMT -5
If that's not a game message or hint to me, perhaps I can find you a bottle of SOY milk? Or just take the damn bottle, I don't care what you do with it, I just need to deliver them!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 1:31:58 GMT -5
Kison, I didn't see you had posted!
Can I offer YOU a nice cold Bottle of Milk? Please? It's the Refreshingest!
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 10, 2008 5:28:09 GMT -5
I come here for some peace and quiet (to get away from Cecilvania for a few hours) and what do I get? Storyteller the Zombie-raiser and Roosh the Milkman of the Apocalypse. Let me organise my thoughts.
On voting. I don't plan to repeat my vote for TDPatriots Yesterday, unless evidence that he is a Demon is adduced.. As I said at the time, I thought TDPatriots had a slightly better chance of being a Demon than SDM was, therefore if one of those two had to be lynched, I'd rather it was TDPatriots.
While one of my suspects has been definitively cleared, the other remains.
On Storyteller and his zombie following. I agree with him that we don't need to worry about his activities producing a PFK win in the near future – say the next two Days. Winning by flooding us with Zombies can't be achieved before the dawn of day 5, and probably a lot later. I'll want to come back to the question on Day 5 or so, if it hasn't been resolved one way or the other already.
If he's telling the truth, then he's able to order his zombies to do his absolute bidding. Must be cool.
On Roosh the Milkman. I want to do a bit of thinking about his claim, specifically the true/false/WIFOM issue as related to the two Days worth of returns he says he's had from Atarus. One thing to note; I wouldn't put it past Roosh to invent the milkman story for a bit of a laugh on us.
More this evening.
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Post by Greedy Smurf on Jun 10, 2008 5:30:26 GMT -5
If this is an actual game mechanic rather than Roosh(and/or Atarus) playing it up for all it's worth I'll do a nudie run through the Queen St Mall. (Major shopping district in the heart of the city about 2 city blocks long) So go ahead Roosh, sling me a bottle of " Hmm I think I'll squeeze those dangly things and drink whatever comes out" juice.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 6:25:08 GMT -5
Are you saying that someone took off your shoes and your feet don't hurt anymore? --FCOD
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 7:24:50 GMT -5
Molefan- Could I interest YOU in a nice cold Bottle of Refreshing Milk? No, sorry. If my theory about it strengthening roles is wrong, I don't want to take the risk of the milk having some kind of negative consequence. On SDM - I said you guys were sheep. I might have been joking, but the point stands. SDM was the very first person to vote for a confirmed demon lord. Regardless of his reasons (which were pretty unconvincing), that in itself is enough to put him at the bottom of my list of suspects. I know scum sometimes vote for other scum, but not like that. It would be utter stupidity to risk doing exactly what he did do, which is starting a bandwagon that could get a fellow scum (and I presume a roleplayer from the title "Demon Lord") lynched. I don't even see a WIFOM there, since SDM evidently didn't do nearly enough to prevent himself from being lynched the very next day. If SDM was scum and he helped vote off Hockeyguy, he'd have done it to clear himself; the first thing he would have done as scum, when it looked as though he might be voted off, would be to point this out. And yet he never did so. Frankly, barring investigations, I can't see any clearer evidence that someone isn't scum than that, and I wish I'd been up to date enough to make the point myself before the day ended. It's quite clear that SDM was voted off because his penalty votes made him an easy target, and not because he was a suspect. That stinks like hell. Therefore I'd put a strong FOS on anybody who voted for SDM or encouraged the view that TDPats and SDM were the only valid targets. It looks to me, reading day two, that this kind of defeatism started far earlier than it needed to, which is suspicious in itself. I have a lot more to say, but this'll do for now.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 8:17:54 GMT -5
Are you saying that someone took off your shoes and your feet don't hurt anymore? --FCOD That's what I get for not reading the entire thread before posting. I'd delete this post if I could. On SDM - I said you guys were sheep. I might have been joking, but the point stands. SDM was the very first person to vote for a confirmed demon lord. Regardless of his reasons (which were pretty unconvincing), that in itself is enough to put him at the bottom of my list of suspects. I know scum sometimes vote for other scum, but not like that. It would be utter stupidity to risk doing exactly what he did do, which is starting a bandwagon that could get a fellow scum (and I presume a roleplayer from the title "Demon Lord") lynched. I disagree with you. Being the first vote for scum does not exonerate you at all. In fact, IIRC in M2 we (the scum) planned exactly such a move. One vote is not nearly enough to put someone in danger of being lynched, and seeing as how SDM did not put forth any real case for voting for hockeyguy it would have made a lot of sense for it to be a scum-on-scum vote. Obviously it didn't turn out this way, but I think your logic is flawed. --FCOD
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Post by Nanook on Jun 10, 2008 9:14:13 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Being the first vote for scum does not exonerate you at all. In fact, IIRC in M2 we (the scum) planned exactly such a move. One vote is not nearly enough to put someone in danger of being lynched, and seeing as how SDM did not put forth any real case for voting for hockeyguy it would have made a lot of sense for it to be a scum-on-scum vote. Obviously it didn't turn out this way, but I think your logic is flawed. It's not the same situation. In M2 it was a planned action, discussed and implemented by the scum group. In this game, there was no time for the scum to discuss strategy before the game began, since we had a Day start and the game started officially very quickly after role PMs were sent out. Atarus stated sometime during Day 1 that scum could not talk during the Day, so we can safely rule out SDM's vote for HG being a demon ploy.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 9:28:39 GMT -5
It's not the same situation. In M2 it was a planned action, discussed and implemented by the scum group. In this game, there was no time for the scum to discuss strategy before the game began, since we had a Day start and the game started officially very quickly after role PMs were sent out. Atarus stated sometime during Day 1 that scum could not talk during the Day, so we can safely rule out SDM's vote for HG being a demon ploy. What? Just because the demons didn't plan it as an action doesn't mean a single demon could take it upon himself to place a SINGLE vote without pushing for a lynch. I am very concerned about the level of naivety in this town. In this instance it's all moot since we already know SDM is not a demon but the idea that two or more people would have believed he was town because of his vote on the Demon Lord disturbs me greatly. --FCOD
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jun 10, 2008 9:39:34 GMT -5
FCOD, it is possible you're being overly paranoid.
On the other hand, paranoia may be just what we need in a game with apocalyptic milkmen and zombies wandering around looking for sheep...
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Post by Nanook on Jun 10, 2008 9:42:58 GMT -5
Just because someone disagrees with your conclusion and assumptions doesn't mean they are naive, and I somewhat resent the implications inherent in that statement.
Why would a demon do it? There's no upside to a random vote on the freaking Demon Lord that gets left until the end of the day when they get lynched. It's a moot point however, so I'm going to drop it there.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 10, 2008 9:44:53 GMT -5
I disagree with you. Being the first vote for scum does not exonerate you at all. In fact, IIRC in M2 we (the scum) planned exactly such a move. One vote is not nearly enough to put someone in danger of being lynched, and seeing as how SDM did not put forth any real case for voting for hockeyguy it would have made a lot of sense for it to be a scum-on-scum vote. Obviously it didn't turn out this way, but I think your logic is flawed. It's not the same situation. In M2 it was a planned action, discussed and implemented by the scum group. In this game, there was no time for the scum to discuss strategy before the game began, since we had a Day start and the game started officially very quickly after role PMs were sent out. Atarus stated sometime during Day 1 that scum could not talk during the Day, so we can safely rule out SDM's vote for HG being a demon ploy.[/quote] bolding mine Bwah? We can rule out that his vote was not a demon ploy because he was not a demon, but not because the demons couldn't talk beforehand. FCOD has addressed this already, but this is a very smart group of people, and if one scum had put their vote on another scum, I think the scum could have figured out what was going on and winged it. So, we know that didn't happen, but I too am a little disturbed by the flaw in logic.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 10, 2008 9:47:52 GMT -5
I don't expect you to believe that I am pro-Town. But I expect there to be some reason why you consider me to be any more likely to be anti-Town than any other player. The entire argument against me is entirely based on the color of the role, and not on any actual reasoning about my behavior. You are asking a lot more then just not being lynched. You want us to use all our resources to protect you, even though you claim to be partially immune to attacks. Thus you want us to not only buy that you are town, but you are far more important then anyone else. Furthermore, you want us to let you build your own army. You want us to let you be completely immune to night attacks. You have to expect an increased level of scrutiny.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 10, 2008 9:49:38 GMT -5
Just because someone disagrees with your conclusion and assumptions doesn't mean they are naive, and I somewhat resent the implications inherent in that statement. Why would a demon do it? There's no upside to a random vote on the freaking Demon Lord that gets left until the end of the day when they get lynched. It's a moot point however, so I'm going to drop it there. Why would a demon do it? - Massive town cred. Any vote by scum is not random. I'll drop it here too, but I had to point this out. Scum will do things that scum would obviously not do because you think they will not do them.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 10, 2008 9:50:43 GMT -5
It's not the same situation. In M2 it was a planned action, discussed and implemented by the scum group. In this game, there was no time for the scum to discuss strategy before the game began, since we had a Day start and the game started officially very quickly after role PMs were sent out. Atarus stated sometime during Day 1 that scum could not talk during the Day, so we can safely rule out SDM's vote for HG being a demon ploy. What? Just because the demons didn't plan it as an action doesn't mean a single demon could take it upon himself to place a SINGLE vote without pushing for a lynch. I am very concerned about the level of naivety in this town. In this instance it's all moot since we already know SDM is not a demon but the idea that two or more people would have believed he was town because of his vote on the Demon Lord disturbs me greatly. --FCOD I agree with you general. However, in this situation, I thought it was pretty clear that Star was new and didn't quite know what he was doing yet. For his first action to be voting for a fellow scum seemed unlikely. That said, I understand TdPat's, Roosh's and NAF's votes, and don't find them to be particularly suspicious.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 10, 2008 9:51:26 GMT -5
FCOD, it is possible you're being overly paranoid. On the other hand, paranoia may be just what we need in a game with apocalyptic milkmen and zombies wandering around looking for sheep... You're fucking right I'm paranoid. A little paranoia is what we need. Let's take a look at where we are in the game, shall we? Day One - We got LUCKY and killed the Demon Lord, but we didn't really learn much from it. Night One - We lost a vanilla (albeit possessed) human and what I assume is our only Warlock (Nexus/Governor). Not too happy about that. Day Two - We lynched a vanilla townie at the last minute and didn't really learn all that much from it. Then, a zombie appeared. Storyteller claims that he made it for the good of the town but who the hell knows for sure. Night Two - We lost another vanilla townie and our Cop/Vig, who did not have a chance to share the results of any useful investigations. Oh yeah, there's another zombie wandering around looking for sheep and God knows what else. Day Three - Roosh comes out as a crazy paranoid milkman with amnesia that might be in love with tdpatriots who doesn't even know if he's town aligned or not. Storyteller tells us that he's going to make a new zombie every day and night but not to worry, his mindless minions will grant him invulnerability after another day and night and he will use them for good! Also, we still don't have a good lead on any demons. The way I see it, being paranoid is the only thing I have left to cling to. --FCOD
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 11:16:25 GMT -5
It's not the same situation. In M2 it was a planned action, discussed and implemented by the scum group. In this game, there was no time for the scum to discuss strategy before the game began, since we had a Day start and the game started officially very quickly after role PMs were sent out. Atarus stated sometime during Day 1 that scum could not talk during the Day, so we can safely rule out SDM's vote for HG being a demon ploy. What? Just because the demons didn't plan it as an action doesn't mean a single demon could take it upon himself to place a SINGLE vote without pushing for a lynch. I am very concerned about the level of naivety in this town. In this instance it's all moot since we already know SDM is not a demon but the idea that two or more people would have believed he was town because of his vote on the Demon Lord disturbs me greatly. --FCOD You've missed my point completely. - IF he was scum and voted Hockeyguy, it was to distance himself from Hockeyguy and exonerate himself when he came under fire. There's no other reason. - He did come under fire. He didn't distance himself from Hockeyguy or exonerate himself. It didn't seem to occur to him to do so. Ergo, he's NOT SCUM. I don't see what part of that reasoning is so hard to accept or predict. If I'd been brought into this game two days earlier, I would have been shouting it in his defence. Unfortunately I hadn't had time to make that kind of analysis then. Now I have, and I don't know why nobody else pointed this out. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems to me that: 1) Scum might vote one another, but they won't target one another unless there's either a compelling strategic reason (eg one of them is confirmed by an investigator, not applicable in this case) or a personal one (eg the votor has an agenda that overrides loyalty to his fellow team mates, which as far as I know isn't applicable here either), and 2) If scum do vote one another and are targeted, they might reasonably be expected to use their vote as some kind of defence, which barely happened here either! So we can go on about milk and sheep and zombies and shoes and God knows what else until the cows come home, but can we also please remember that this is still a mafia game, and there are predictable things that the scum will do that will identify them as scum, and townies as townies! This goes back to the Batman game, where I was a townie survivor. At times during that game, I felt like I was playing a different game to everyone else. The reality is that there were people there - Storyteller, NAF, Hoopy Frood, etc - who were very good at sorting out the roles. Well that's all well and good in a "no vanilla" game, but in a game with vanilla townies in it their usefulness diminishes. What we need is a town group who can pick up HUGE hints like the one I've pointed out above, and make the correct deductions. If we can't do that, we're sunk. And make no mistake about it, SDM's lynch was a HUGE fuck-up. Hockeyguy's lynch was a lucky break. At this point in the Batman game there were five or six people, likely townies, who I thought could really damage the scum. Right now there's one person who's really made an impression on me, who I won't name for obvious reason, and that one isn't a leader. Hell, there were people (including FCOD himself if I recall correctly) who were saying on day two that a lot of people needed kicking to get them in gear. I completely agree. Going on the first two days, this game's townies are completely outclassed. If you don't agree, try reading the entire two days' forum entries back to back. If you compare it to the Batman game's first two days, it's actually depressing. I'm saying this because this is the second game I've subbed into where I've felt that my side needed a kick up the arse to get them going. In the other game, the townies eventually won. So I don't agree with FCOD here. It's not naivety that's killing the town here, it's mental laziness. Everyone's rushing to sort out the zombie issues and the milkman issues etc. Well, fine. These things should be sorted out. But not at the expense of actually playing mafia and making the simple deductions that let you know exactly who the scum are. To my mind there's at least three, maybe four people whose alignment is fairly clear, but who haven't really been commented on to that effect. Maybe people are trying to keep obvious citizens safe - in which case, fine. But reading the threads, it doesn't come across like that, it looks as if people simply aren't thinking about the facts. I'm certain that was the case with SDM. I STILL have a lot more to say, but I've spent too long on this post anyway and I have RL stuff to do. We need to get the Story and Roosh situations sorted out, I agree, but I'd like to see more people coming forward and saying who they suspect and why. Let's see the townies cooperating for the first time in the game, and see just who looks genuine, and who doesn't. Let's see where people stand and who they're allied with. Let's have people looking at the facts and coming out with their deductions. I still have a lot to say about my own, but I've not got time right now. More will be forthcoming before the end of this game day, though.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 10, 2008 11:24:02 GMT -5
Oh, and what specifically will be forthcoming from me - when I've got more time to write it up - is an analysis of different players, their votes, and how likely I think it is that they're scum. This is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of from other people too.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 11:33:31 GMT -5
Oh, and what specifically will be forthcoming from me - when I've got more time to write it up - is an analysis of different players, their votes, and how likely I think it is that they're scum. This is the kind of thing I'd like to see more of from other people too. Check out my Day 2 posts then on the Matter, I quite elaborately go through Day 1's voting patterns.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 11:38:27 GMT -5
So go ahead Roosh, sling me a bottle of " Hmm I think I'll squeeze those dangly things and drink whatever comes out" juice. Roosh delivers Milk to GreedySmurfOkay, I know I've offered a lot of you milk already people! I NEED more of you guys to start accepting the Milk! The day is halfway through and I still have quite a bit of deliveries to make! If I can't deliver the milk, I'm going to be in trouble once again! PLEASE for my sake- will you take the Milk? I don't know if the Milk has any affects on You all, and if it's my guess, I'd say no. HOWEVER, the Milk delivering has a very real and dire consequence for ME. So I NEED to deliver this Milk! [If this statement is True for today/or the WIFOM one] So PLEASE, help me out! Nanook- You certainly look like the sort of fellow that would like a nice warm refreshing Bottle of Milk?Please will you let me deliver you some Milk?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 11:40:12 GMT -5
NAF, You've been talkative- May I offer you a nice refreshing Bottle of Ice Cold Milk?
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Post by Nanook on Jun 10, 2008 11:54:46 GMT -5
I'm actually a big fan of milk. Go through quite a bit of it each week. There's always room for more.
Of course, if this does something bad to me, I will hunt you down and kill you.
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