RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:44:27 GMT -5
Molefan, you know what else does a body good, besides a nice strong brilliant man such as yourself?
Milk!
Molefan, can I interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:47:22 GMT -5
Hawkeyepoop, the names will go away if you take the milk! I understand you're one of my toughest customers, but please... for my sake? HawkeyeOp, can i interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?I REALLY hope you do consider taking it.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:49:29 GMT -5
Storyteller... I really don't trust the zombies. Just an FYI.
And I do hope you answer Moley's Q's on do you know if your dead people can be affect by the Demons or D2mons in any way? He had a valid point, and I think it's one that bears looking at.
That being said, Story- can I interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk? It's the Refreshingest!
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Post by Kison on Jun 10, 2008 23:49:39 GMT -5
FOR GOD SAKE I swear I am not a newb but I am proving to be one today. Perhaps Kison you need something for what ails you and your Newbieness*! Kison, Can I interest you in a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk?*No promises of actually fixing newbieness guaranteed.
What happens if I say no?!
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:51:13 GMT -5
Hockeymonkey....
Bah, you're voting for me. That basically means you want me dead.
So I doubt you, HockeyMonkey, would accept a Bottle of Ice Cold Refreshing Milk....
Would you?
Pwease?
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 10, 2008 23:53:32 GMT -5
What happens if I say no?! I will be very saddened, especially if I cannot make my Deliveries for toDay. So Bad things for me basically. I NEED people to take some more bottles of Milk. I STILL need to finish my deliveries, and I know now it's getting to the hard sell.... But I will have to keep bugging you all as I have a HUGE interest in trying to make my deliveries! SO PLEASE help me out!
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 11, 2008 0:01:22 GMT -5
Erm... just occurred to me, Roosh, that everybody who's ever used the term "WIFOM" should probably be kicking themselves very hard right now. (Although if they're not, I'd be happy to do it for 'em!)
If I remember correctly, the original WIFOM from "The Princess Bride" went something like this: a knight has to solve the problem of which one of two cups doesn't contain a deadly poison, his own cup or his enemy's. It turns out that both cups contain poison and the enemy took an antidote beforehand, which means that you can describe the basic situation as this: an unsolvable puzzle with two apparently equally likely answers, neither of which turned out to be correct.
Well think about it for a minute. Think about the statement "I'm paranoid". It's apparently either true, false, or WIFOM. But if it's true, that would make you paranoid about being paranoid, therefore not paranoid. And if it's false, you're not paranoid about being paranoid, hence you really are paranoid. It's a famous paradox.
In other words, it's an unsolvable problem with two equally likely answers, neither of which turn out to be correct...
The second lot of clues read like this:
1. I need you guys let me deliver you milk. Or Else there is a lethal consequence for me. Look at my Pretty Milkman uniform and Shoes! 2. I lose if the Demons outnumber the Survivors. 3. I am a Crazy Townie.
As to this, my question would be: can townies be "crazy"? I looked it up and the only reference I can find to the word refers to a type of vigilante character who can strike back once at a person who attempts to perform a night action on him. This action needn't necessarily be a night-kill, but in this game it seems fairly likely that it would have to be. It also puts a whole different complexion on an investigation - presumably, if Roosh is truly "crazy" then anybody trying a night action on him for the first time would end up dead, so it's gotta be done during the day. (This is why I think any revenge action of this kind would be limited to night kills only. Otherwise he could very easily kill an investigator on his own side without meaning to.)
Is any of those three statements a "WIFOM"? Not as far as I can see.
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Post by Holy Moley! on Jun 11, 2008 0:08:59 GMT -5
Alright, if Roosh IS telling the truth, this is how I figure it: NIGHT ONE: I. TdPats is Your Lover. - False. Roosh might have no idea about this, but TDPats surely should. Either TDPats is lying or this has to be false. I think it's that simple. 2. You are Paranoid. - WIFOM, obviously. 3. You are a Milkman. - True. By elimination and because this is far too much screwing around to be false, even for this site. NIGHT TWO: 1. I need you guys let me deliver you milk. Or Else there is a lethal consequence for me. - False. I doubt there'd be a lethal consequence just because one person failed to post that they accepted the milk or something. 2. I lose if the Demons outnumber the Survivors. - True by elimination. In other words, Roosh is either town or has every incentive to work with us to meet his own win condition. W00t! 3. I am a Crazy Townie. - WIFOM. My theory is that there's no such thing, so both answers seem reasonable but are in fact incorrect. I can't see how either other option could truly be WIFOM in the sense that I think it's meant, but this one could. So Roosh is town or equivalent, is a milkman, doesn't die if the milk doesn't get delivered, and isn't in love with TDPats. Roosh, you are off the hook in sooooo many different ways right now. On the basis of that, and my deduction that Roosh's main role is a pro-town one, I'm gonna accept that bottle of milk after all. **gulps.** Bottoms up!
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Post by Kison on Jun 11, 2008 0:14:01 GMT -5
Since Ro0sh is such a nice guy, I'll accept a bottle of milk as long as it is not skim milk.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 11, 2008 0:15:12 GMT -5
Then wouldn't the smart way to test that be for RoOsh to not satisfy whatever his milk delivery requirement is? If that's the false one then he'll be fine AND he's town. If it is the true one, then either of the townie ones (by elimination) has to be false, and I think we know where we'd have to go from there.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 0:17:31 GMT -5
On the basis of that, and my deduction that Roosh's main role is a pro-town one, I'm gonna accept that bottle of milk after all. **gulps.** Bottoms up! Wow. You sir, if you are correct, have earned my thanks and I'm truly pleased to give you this:
Roosh delivers Milk to molefan1981
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 0:18:20 GMT -5
Since Ro0sh is such a nice guy, I'll accept a bottle of milk as long as it is not skim milk. Roosh delivers Milk to Kison.Thank you kind sir!
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 0:20:42 GMT -5
Then wouldn't the smart way to test that be for RoOsh to not satisfy whatever his milk delivery requirement is? If that's the false one then he'll be fine AND he's town. If it is the true one, then either of the townie ones (by elimination) has to be false, and I think we know where we'd have to go from there. Yeah, we could also tell if I'm lying by lynching you and seeing if I die too. That'd prove I'm the damn Milkman or Paranoid at least. Let me finish my deliveries. You got your goddamn Milk, so pip down!
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 11, 2008 0:34:11 GMT -5
I don't get it, RoOsh. Maybe I'm taking crazy pills?
You don't deliver all your milk. You live, that means you're town (or your claim isn't completely genuine). You die, that means you were likely not town anyway, given the parameters of your role as you've described them.
Didn't you say that you were struggling to come up with reasons to keep you alive? Well, I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but I'd be pretty much convinced of your towniness if you stopped delivering milk but were still breathing come Day Four, because I don't think your claim is fabricated.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 0:44:52 GMT -5
You don't deliver all your milk. You live, that means you're town (or your claim isn't completely genuine). You die, that means you were likely not town anyway, given the parameters of your role as you've described them. And if I'm a scummy milkman or a PFK Milkman, I die. Well. Crap. I really really don't like this idea. Namely that it's putting all my Eggs into the "Townie" basket. But then again, any other option would mean that I'd advocate lynching myself if I were in anyone else's shoes. So... well played, tdpats. Though, if you're scum and you just want me to die, you could be asking me to do so.... But I don't see then how i could be Town AND have to Deliver the Milk.... Unless I was a Crazy Townie AND the Milkman, but then that'd make me scummy. As Crazy Townie =/= Scum. It seems like I'd be one or the other. Huh. Fine. I'm going to hold off on the Milk Deliveries, while I give this more thought. Does any one else, have any thing they want to add on this matter? IE: Is there a chance that if I don't deliver all my milk, and take the consequence, I could still be town? As I'd like to take the option that keeps me ALIVE and TOWNIE. But I suppose, If I can't do that, I might as well take the options that help the TOWN the most. As if I don't, hell even I'd kill me. I have still not fulfilled my delivers. If you would like to accept that, I'd appreciate it. But I will not deliver any milk, until I think about this a bit more. My Problem: Should I not deliver the Milk- would it really help prove anything? Or should I play to maximize my playing time- ie: deliver the milk? Hmm... I gotta think about this in the morning.
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Post by tdpatriots12 on Jun 11, 2008 0:55:44 GMT -5
You're not supposed to like it.
If you're town, then it's a selfless pro-town act. Nothing wrong with that, right?
Anyway, on this milkman business. You can be a milkman (first set) and still not have anything bad happen to you if you fail to deliver the milk (second set). They aren't mutually exclusive concepts.
Also, I think it's just as likely that this lover and milk stuff is just as much designed to help you figure out what you are as it is to fuck with everyone in the game, including you. Say you sat back this whole day and never mentioned milk and lived, what conclusions would you draw about your own role, even before the third set of "facts" (if they are even forthcoming) ?
More speculative: I think crazy roles are about leaps of faith. The stranger a role is, provided it's not fake, the more I tend to believe the mod is challenging the town to buy it. Why? Because, well, that's kind of how I look at them. But I think it's reasonable.
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 0:57:58 GMT -5
Thank you for your clarification.
I have much to muse over then.
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Hockey Monkey!
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Jun 11, 2008 8:32:40 GMT -5
unvote RoOsh
Pats is right. Lynching you would be a mistake when we can let this thing run it's course. No, I still don't want any milk.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 11, 2008 8:42:58 GMT -5
No, and no, but thanks for asking. Me being suspicious of you, and you thinking I'm wrong, doesn't equal any sort of intentional mischaracterization of you. Since this game is about finding people's real motivations, I'm not going to take your word for it what your motivations are. I'm going to examine what you say, and draw my own conclusions. There's nothing insidious or ingenuous about that, but I do find it curious that you act like I've maligned you so greatly in doing so. Being suspicious and thinking I'm wrong does not equal any sort of mischaracterization. Saying that I've said and done things that I have not, on the other hand, does. I am not upset about you disagreeing with me, I'm upset because you've said that I've done things that I have not. You can think my motivations are whatever you'd like and speculate about it all you want, but don't say I've done things that I haven't. I'm not going to discuss this subject any more because you obviously aren't seeing reality. As far as the whole Milkman stuff goes...I have no idea what it's about, but I'd like to hear what the three pieces of information Roosh gets tomorrow are before we decide to lynch him or not. For now, I'm leaving my vote where it is. --FCOD
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Post by Hawkmod on Jun 11, 2008 9:52:22 GMT -5
But I will have to keep bugging you all as I have a HUGE interest in trying to make my deliveries! You may have a huge interest in delivering milk, but that is of no importance to me. I'm not sure why you think I should care about your wellbeing. I will only take milk when I'm convinced it is a pro-town action. Not a pro Roosh action.
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Post by The Real FCOD on Jun 11, 2008 10:24:15 GMT -5
Can we get a vote count?
Anyone have any idea where toDay's lynch is gonna go? We have 1 day 8 hours...
--FCOD
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Post by bufftabby on Jun 11, 2008 10:41:06 GMT -5
No, and no, but thanks for asking. Me being suspicious of you, and you thinking I'm wrong, doesn't equal any sort of intentional mischaracterization of you. Since this game is about finding people's real motivations, I'm not going to take your word for it what your motivations are. I'm going to examine what you say, and draw my own conclusions. There's nothing insidious or ingenuous about that, but I do find it curious that you act like I've maligned you so greatly in doing so. Being suspicious and thinking I'm wrong does not equal any sort of mischaracterization. Saying that I've said and done things that I have not, on the other hand, does. I am not upset about you disagreeing with me, I'm upset because you've said that I've done things that I have not. You can think my motivations are whatever you'd like and speculate about it all you want, but don't say I've done things that I haven't. I'm not going to discuss this subject any more because you obviously aren't seeing reality. The one time that I feel I've said you said something you didn't, I apologized for my error. I don't think I've done that either of the two times you posted links to, and that's what I mean about disagreeing with you. If you want to phrase that as not "seeing reality", that's fine, but it seems silly to me.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 11, 2008 11:05:39 GMT -5
Can we get a vote count?Anyone have any idea where toDay's lynch is gonna go? We have 1 day 8 hours... --FCOD I don't know what is wrong with us this game. Last time I checked there were 13 people not voting (probably closer to 10 now, I haven't really been keeping track). The Day has no shape and everything happens in the last freakin' hours. Everyone does realise that any vote placed from more or less this point on is a last minute vote, right?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jun 11, 2008 11:16:45 GMT -5
Can we get a vote count?Anyone have any idea where toDay's lynch is gonna go? We have 1 day 8 hours... --FCOD I don't know what is wrong with us this game. Last time I checked there were 13 people not voting (probably closer to 10 now, I haven't really been keeping track). The Day has no shape and everything happens in the last freakin' hours. Everyone does realise that any vote placed from more or less this point on is a last minute vote, right? Well, a few things: (1) This game has been very, even unusually, confusing. We don't really have much indication regarding even what opponents we might face. (2) We're all looking at the game from really disparate angles. YesterDay I posted a very long analysis of the votes against hockeyguy, and pretty much no one was interested or responded. We're not really discussing so much as we're making pronouncements. (3) Roosh has created so much white noise on this Day that it's hard to get a conversation going. Let someone poke their head up, and there's Roosh with half a dozen posts about milk, filling the pages and posting three content-three posts for every one post by any other poster. I don't know how to fix these problems.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 11, 2008 12:00:14 GMT -5
Fair points. Well, a few things: (1) This game has been very, even unusually, confusing. We don't really have much indication regarding even what opponents we might face. Fair, and to be even more fair I will say that this has gotten to me also. The game has spun, the first two Days especially. I don't know what it is about the setup that is doing this. But I think mole is right about how to deal with that (and frankly I should take my own advice) by trying to ignore all the weirdness. Easier said than done, I know. (2) We're all looking at the game from really disparate angles. YesterDay I posted a very long analysis of the votes against hockeyguy, and pretty much no one was interested or responded. We're not really discussing so much as we're making pronouncements. More or less true also I suppose. But this is really the problem that needs fixing, and I don't think it so much is a problem as a symptom. Personally I am not sure what to do with the analysis you or Roosh did yesterDay right yet. I think that kind of thing is great, but until we are a little further into the game I don't know that any patterns emerge. (3) Roosh has created so much white noise on this Day that it's hard to get a conversation going. Let someone poke their head up, and there's Roosh with half a dozen posts about milk, filling the pages and posting three content-three posts for every one post by any other poster. This one I know how to fix. Let's lynch Roosh. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but he isn't actually contributing anymore and the lack of white noise couldn't hurt. Either that or Roosh could knock off the hard sell and start playing to help the town. And even then, lynching him might still be a good idea if only to find out what the fuck is up with him.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 12:14:43 GMT -5
(3) Roosh has created so much white noise on this Day that it's hard to get a conversation going. Let someone poke their head up, and there's Roosh with half a dozen posts about milk, filling the pages and posting three content-three posts for every one post by any other poster. I don't know how to fix these problems. This one I think will be fixed on its own now. But sheesh, really? Just blame the whole inactivity of everyone on Me posting a lot? We're gonna go to the ol' FireFly discussion again? That's a cheap shot. Though, speaking on that game, where's BLaM? He's not checked in in the last 24 hours, AND he's been consistently playing like he's mhaye- he has 0 posts, but yet I full well expect to see him show up like 12 hours before the day ends with a flurry of posts, and then a vote. I'm not sure how I like that, but as far as I can tell he's been pretty good with the analysis. I just don't like the Mhaye trend, even from Mhaye, so when others do it.... It worries me more. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also, Rysto- Could you explain your Vote against Nanook? -You made it RIGHT at the start of the Day, and you didn't even wait for anything else to happen, but yet you didn't offer ANY new insight nothing, just a "I stand by what I said yesterday" sorta deal. So if this isn't some crazy power role struggle between the two of you guys, can you please explain why the REST of us should vote for Nanook? I still see it as he's dropped some information, and it still feels like you're pressing him to talk more- because honestly, what's that vote supposed to do- the one vote right off the start? But I fear that maybe then you've got something up your sleeve, as it's a rather... terse vote. Just "I stand by what I said yesterday". And when I go through your posts from yesterday, you do point out: Jun 6, 2008, 2:31pm: You basically state that you don't believe that he's a power role. But then in your latest post, you basically lay out a weak case against HockeyMonkey, and then end it with this blurb that I REALLY didn't like: ~snip~ I'm not sure if that's enough to throw a vote her way, but I thought I'd put that out there before I collapse into bed. Care to elaborate what happened to your Nanook suspicions? -A person you had called a liar the day before, and didn't like their voting vs. the now known Vig/Cop? That one just seemed like a smear against Hockeymonkey, because why aren't you pursuing the Nanook lynch? Right now it feels like a safe One off vote that really had no accountability any more. Because i think there's something odd between You and Nanook, but it's something that no one's really been hitting- and I do admit I may have been a cause of that, but it's something that really should be looked at further. This is the way I see it (Please either of you, help me understand better): Right now, it seems that Nanook has implied he has information. You, Rysto, yesterDay called him out on it, and said you didn't believe he was a power role, and felt his vote vs. Ryjae were disingenuous. Now we know more information on Ryjae, so yeah, that does look suspicious Nanook. But then you throw out a smaller weaker case vs. Hockey, and it feels like you've dropped your suspicions against Nanook- or that it got lost among the noise- What Happened? -Because at the start of the Day it didn't seem like you had any new information against him, you stilled called him out, but now it feels like you might be looking to place your vote elsewhere, instead of on someone you called out as "not a power role". That to me feels kinda... well, suspicious. -I didn't like your vote yesterDay and it felt really odd when you voted for him for hinting at roles. -I didn't like your fast vote toDay against him, but I held back, because 1. I had problems of my own. And 2. I thought maybe you had some information that WE didn't have from the night. -But now, with that post against Hockey, it seems to me you're not exactly pursuing your vote against Nanook, and I wonder then why did you make that vote in the first place really. So until you can clarify yourself and your actions vs. Nanook, and pretty much why you've dropped your pursuit of him- which just feels REALLY inconsistent to me: Vote Rysto
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 12:20:21 GMT -5
This one I know how to fix. Let's lynch Roosh. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but he isn't actually contributing anymore and the lack of white noise couldn't hurt. Either that or Roosh could knock off the hard sell and start playing to help the town. And even then, lynching him might still be a good idea if only to find out what the fuck is up with him. Jesus Christ! I was writing my post when you posted! I swear I'll be better! I've thought about it, and even though i'm SO close... I'll not deliver the rest of the Milk toDay. So if I DO deliver the milk... then yeah, feel free to string me up for playing for my own existence. But I think I'm gonna try to win this game for the Town. Even if it means taking the chance that I'm NOT Town and may be dying then at Dusk.Which is really the most depressing feeling in a Mafia Game.... Though once again it means I'll be following toDay's Dusk EXTREMELY Closely.
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Post by Rysto on Jun 11, 2008 12:25:12 GMT -5
I haven't dropped my suspicions of Nanook, but I haven't been getting any traction at all on that front so I did a more thorough look at Hockey Monkey and presented what I found. I guess I could have pushed more on Nanook but I'd really just end up reiterating what I said yesterDay -- there's nothing there besides the inconsistency I pointed out, but I do feel that the inconsistency is enough to get my vote. But if nobody else feels the same way than I think I help the town more by voting for a lynch contender who I feel is scummy than throwing out a one-off vote Day after Day.
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Post by NAF1138 on Jun 11, 2008 12:31:19 GMT -5
This one I know how to fix. Let's lynch Roosh. Maybe it is a bit extreme, but he isn't actually contributing anymore and the lack of white noise couldn't hurt. Either that or Roosh could knock off the hard sell and start playing to help the town. And even then, lynching him might still be a good idea if only to find out what the fuck is up with him. Jesus Christ! I was writing my post when you posted! I swear I'll be better! I've thought about it, and even though i'm SO close... I'll not deliver the rest of the Milk toDay. So if I DO deliver the milk... then yeah, feel free to string me up for playing for my own existence. But I think I'm gonna try to win this game for the Town. Even if it means taking the chance that I'm NOT Town and may be dying then at Dusk.Which is really the most depressing feeling in a Mafia Game.... Though once again it means I'll be following toDay's Dusk EXTREMELY Closely. I was mostly just trying to shake things up a bit. I still think Hockey is the best lynch toDay, though your recent case against Rysto is interesting...and if you are right actually lends a bit more credence to the whole Hockey case.
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RoOsh
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Post by RoOsh on Jun 11, 2008 12:33:45 GMT -5
I haven't dropped my suspicions of Nanook, but I haven't been getting any traction at all on that front so I did a more thorough look at Hockey Monkey and presented what I found. I guess I could have pushed more on Nanook but I'd really just end up reiterating what I said yesterDay -- there's nothing there besides the inconsistency I pointed out, but I do feel that the inconsistency is enough to get my vote. But if nobody else feels the same way than I think I help the town more by voting for a lynch contender who I feel is scummy than throwing out a one-off vote Day after Day. That's what I guess i take issue with- you DIDN'T vote for a lynch contender toDay- you just smeared one, and then stayed on your vote with Nanook. That to me feels opportunistic. And the "inconsistency"? I still feel its really weak, unless YOU have information counter to the information that Nanook may or may not have. So maybe I need to hear from You, Nanners- what do you have to say in all this for your defense of your "inconsistency" aka: Your hints- anything new or just what you've already said?
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