Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 1:46:17 GMT -5
I'm trying to balance a game - but not quite sure what to value certain roles. I did read the thread "Let's talk about Game Mechanics a bit" and found it VERY helpful. However I'm still unsure of the value of: 1. recruiting mason 2. Scotsman (neither Town nor Scum) 3. A Scum-"Politician" 4. How to value that Scum can't kill on Night 1 If anyone knows this (or a site I can find out more about this) I would be VERY grateful for any help I can get
|
|
|
Post by Boozahol Squid, P.I. on Sept 22, 2008 7:08:35 GMT -5
For #1: Are your masons pro-Town? How many to start? How many can they recruit? What happens when they recruit scum?
For #2: Is the Scotsman just a survivor who gets a free pass at not being NK'd? Do the players know if the Scotsman dies, and do they know his neutral alignment? In any event, it's probably a neutral event with regards to Town-Scum dynamics
For #3: That's a pretty hefty pro-scum role. If the politician can sway a vote every day, it's damn near as good as a Godfather
For #4: Do you mean before Day 1: So, a Day Start? Or do you mean the town gets two lynches off before the scum get to kill?
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 22, 2008 10:31:40 GMT -5
Squids questions need answering. This is basically a cop role who shares his information with everyone he investigates. A lot of things can come together to make this work or make this break the game. It all sort of depends on how you want to impliment it and how you limit it. Survivor that doesn't effect either sides win condition and can win with either side won't effect the balance of either side appreicably. Making him a Scottsman as well gives him a shot at winning, I would say this is proably a good role to add in to beef up numbers and slow down the kill rate. A game extender role of sorts. Crazy powerful if able to be used every Day. I would say as valuable as a toughguy and more valuable than a godfather. 9 points to a traditional 4.5 for vanilla scum. 7 points if he has to give himself away every time he uses his power, 6 points if the power is a one shot. Like Squid asked, do the town get two lynches before the first scum kill or does town only get one lynch? Daystart balances pro town by about 1.5 points I think (JSexton says only 1, but I think I disagree). If other pro town players can use thier powers and scum can't kill I would say it adds 2 points to the town side. If there are 2 lynches and two uses of power before the scum can kill...a lot more. Probably close to 6 points for town. It's hard to say since a lot of other factors would be involved, like the number of town roles and weather or not town knows there won't be a kill on Night 1. I haven't found a site and a lot of my own knowledge has been gained through the help of more experienced designers and trial and error. Asking questions is a good way to go. I would also recommend getting someone to take a second look at your design and give you notes when you are finished with the rough pass. It's always good to get a second set of eyes for any game, doubly true if you haven't put one together before. A good rule of thumb is that every town power should have something that either internally cripples it a bit, or (more ideally)should have a scum power that counteracts it, and vice versa. An example of internal crippling would be the traditional vig. It is a pro town role and can help up the towns kill numbers, but is forced to kill every Night upping the towns casualty rate as well and potentially taking away the towns advantage. It self balances in this way. (Some would say overbalances). The obvious examples for countering powers would be the godfather and miller. They read incorrectly to a cop and so the cop can not ever be 100% certain of his read.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 12:39:39 GMT -5
#1 The recruiting Mason can recruit up to 3 - and dies if recruting scum. He can choose not to recruit, if he's not sure.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 12:41:52 GMT -5
#2 The Scotsman can only win, if two certain Town-roles dies AND if he is the first to pick up the Ring (it a Tolkien-game and we are talking about Gollum)
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 12:47:23 GMT -5
#3 I'll most likely let him use his power everyday. I got a really powerful Town role and I need powerful scum to balance the game. 9 is a lot (!) but I do see what you mean... I might get someone to look it over then - because I seem to have invented a lot of power roles #4 I was thinking I needed to look at different scenarios, because of my very powerful Town-role - but with a scum-politician (at 9) I might get a balance without making it too confusing
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Sept 22, 2008 13:19:46 GMT -5
#3 I'll most likely let him use his power everyday. I got a really powerful Town role and I need powerful scum to balance the game. Be careful with this. The problem that you can run into with really powerful roles is that if they die early, their team is in a huge whole early.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 16:36:02 GMT -5
I am really greatful for all you help!!
I'm doing a lot of calculation and I am getting close. Do you change the balance of the game if the roles are "out in the open" before the game starts?
I'll try to get someone to look it over, before I set it up...
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 22, 2008 16:48:41 GMT -5
I am really greatful for all you help!! I'm doing a lot of calculation and I am getting close. Do you change the balance of the game if the roles are "out in the open" before the game starts? I'll try to get someone to look it over, before I set it up... Yeah, open setup changes the math a bit. You need to have some sort of mechanic involved to keep the game from being boken by a mass claim.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 22, 2008 16:51:45 GMT -5
I guess, I should have worked that out myself - being in the T2-game with mass claim all over the place...
I'm going back to work on the game again... I really want to get it right!
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 22, 2008 17:03:16 GMT -5
I guess, I should have worked that out myself - being in the T2-game with mass claim all over the place... I'm going back to work on the game again... I really want to get it right! Feel free to PM me if you have questions.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 23, 2008 2:35:26 GMT -5
Feel free to PM me if you have questions. That is really nice of you!! I'll probably will take you up on that
|
|
|
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 23, 2008 10:19:55 GMT -5
Too bad you don't have a Facebook, NAF, Rysto...that's where this game is going to be held.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 23, 2008 10:55:28 GMT -5
Too bad you don't have a Facebook, NAF, Rysto...that's where this game is going to be held. I have been resistant to facebook. I was an early adopter of both Friendster and MySpace and feel like I got burned with both. I am also not crazy about having to post pictures of myself on the net (which was a facebook requierment at one point, I don't know if it is still.) I have thought about it a couple of times but keep coming down on the side of not signing up.
|
|
|
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 23, 2008 11:42:36 GMT -5
It's not. You can put up anything you want or just leave it pictureless.
If you do ever make one, just only add people you really trust, that way there's a less chance of being burned?
Speaking as someone who has a MySpace also, I hate it. I don't like it. FB is where it's at.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Sept 23, 2008 11:46:17 GMT -5
The being burned was more about feeling like it took up a lot of my time for a while and in the end I didn't get anything out of it because the comminity changed so drastically. It happened with both Friendster (which got really weird after a while) and MySpace (which turned into a home for 12 year olds).
|
|
|
Post by Idle Thoughts on Sept 23, 2008 12:24:55 GMT -5
Oh. Well, dunno what to say, really. FB doesn't SEEM like that...and a lot of people here have one. Santo and Darth Sensitive have even played in the mafia group there that I made and it's pretty high in traffic. It's also gotten four people (that I know of) here that weren't from the SDMB (totallost, Almost Human, Flyfisheron, and MiteyMouse) and the first three of those people also joined the dope. But hey, no pressure. Whenever you're ready or, even if you're never ready, that's okay too.
|
|
|
Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 23, 2008 13:54:42 GMT -5
I played Mafia on Facebook for a while but I ended up giving it up because most games revolved around people randomly guessing who was scum. Of course, I was playing the 5-minute round games so that could be a reason.
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 23, 2008 17:29:36 GMT -5
I love FB - but in some ways "mafia" isn't the same on FB as in here - because of the fluff and the newbies... But we know each other in an other way - *lol* and we even know how old our co-players are
|
|
Total Ullz
Administrator
You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 23, 2008 17:34:12 GMT -5
And BTW - I might put a teaser for my game in here... could be fun if not only FB-players joined up in here... but maybe getting one or two from in here on the FB-games ;D
|
|