Day One

[Santo Rugger]

I thought you were talking about the people who had pointed out said slip. My bad.

[Total Ullz]

Nov 26, 2008 13:28:38 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

No one has yet pushed for a 100% claim that I have seen. Where are you getting the idea that someone has?

I didn't get that idea - just me (again) forgetting to say exactly what I mean:

FCOD said he would be able to prove his claim - and if he had to then he would. This made me think that FCOD felt that if he was being under put under a lot of pressure: he would make it a full claim and prove it.

I then thought if someone did push hard (not that anyone did it yet - just that it MIGHT happen)... would that make them more scummy or just being the more "aggressive" Town we talked a bit about earlier...

And then I felt the need (at the end of my post) to say I though it better to leave this claim for what it is - "an unproved claim" - at least for now!

[Almost Human]

Nov 26, 2008 13:56:00 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

Nov 26, 2008 13:54:48 GMT -5 Almost Human said:

Because it seemed to me that a town FCOD was jumping on a possible scum molefan slip.

Is that better?

Yes, the lack of clarity wasn't your fault, it's just that with all the responding and yesses and nos it got hard to follow the specific questions and answers. Thank you for clarifying. I have a follow-up question:

Why are you leaning toward FCoD being Town?

Because, and this is only my opinion, I think it's less likely that scum would jump on a slip like that right off the bat. Also I think they'd be more likely to think through the fact that doing so would likely show they're not vanilla town themselves so they wouldn't have that pool to hide in later on in the game.

Nothing concrete but it does seem (to me) more of a town thing to do.

[Almost Human]

Nov 26, 2008 13:59:27 GMT -5 Almost Human said:

Nov 26, 2008 13:56:00 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

Yes, the lack of clarity wasn't your fault, it's just that with all the responding and yesses and nos it got hard to follow the specific questions and answers. Thank you for clarifying. I have a follow-up question:

Why are you leaning toward FCoD being Town?

Because, and this is only my opinion, I think it's less likely that scum would jump on a slip like that right off the bat. Also I think they'd be more likely to think through the fact that doing so would likely show they're not vanilla town themselves so they wouldn't have that pool to hide in later on in the game.

Nothing concrete but it does seem (to me) more of a town thing to do.

Actually it wouldn't necessarily show they weren't vanilla town. As I said earlier scum could claim they were vanilla but had a different name which was why they questioned molefan. But FCOD didn't do that which also makes me lean towards him as town.

[Chucara]

Nov 26, 2008 10:02:26 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Nov 26, 2008 3:37:27 GMT -5 Chucara said:

Just for the record, I'm against a mass claim because I'm almost completely certain that Idle has put in a mechanism to prevent the effectiveness of such a claim. I (think I) remember a thread where this was discussed, and Idle said he would have a mechanism to limit the effect of a mass claim so that it would be at best neutral for town. I can't seem to find this thread again, and my memory is a little hazy. Still, even without the post, I'm pretty sure Idle has made sure that a mass claim isn't going to break the game in any way.

About FCOD, I must admit that his statement is pinging me now that you mention it. It might be because he didn't think it through, but as I see it, there are these options:

- Shaggy is vanilla, and FCOD is power role town. In this case it was basically a town power role claim. This makes no sense to me unless he is a town bomb or something.

- FCOD is vanilla pretending to be a town power role. This is a fine move, but if this is the case, why did he do it in a way that semi-outed molefan? And there's a huge risk of him getting lynched as the concensus seems to be that vanillas should not claim today.

It might be both a town slip and a scum slip IMO. I'll leave my vote where it is for now, but I'm hoping there will be some sort of clarification from FCOD.

There are more options than the ones you've posed. Any reason you chose to leave them out? Also, setting up dichotomies is bad. Why are you doing it?

Well, isn't the role of a player a dichotomy by default? I mean, he can't possibly be vanilla and a power role. I get your point, and I'm really only thinking aloud here. It's just the way I analyze things.

What bothers me the most is that FCOD seems to me to be too clever a player accidentally make that slip. That leaves me to want to want to try to analyze the possible situations that could've caused his "slip".

Also, exhausting all possibilities would require a much longer list.

The problem is that with FCOD's "slip", he is a likely candidate for a lynch, as he is basically the only one so far that has done anything out of the ordinary, now that molefan is subbed. I'm still considering voting FCOD, but I don't want to do so until I've(we've) thought this through. Right now, assuming that his claim wasn't really a slip, I have problems seeing how this could be a pro-scum move. Not saying that it is pro-town either. Meh.. Maybe it was just a slip, I just think it is a way too obviously one to make, and I don't like that.

That being said, I'd like if we could somehow get some other people in focus.

This also leaves me to unvote miteym as he has actually gone on record with a few opinions.

This also makes me sort of second guess the whole lynch a lurker theory.. It's pretty easy for scum to "stop lurking" now that they know what we're looking for (at least me and totallost). On the other hand, at least it gets them to voice an opinion, and thereby possibly forcing a slip.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Nov 25, 2008 13:40:32 GMT -5 Idle Thoughts said:

Does anyone pay attention to the posting ranks anymore?

I've been wondering about that. How do those work? It seems like there's some sort of formula that starts each game...but I've never been able to figure it out either.

[Total Ullz]

Nov 26, 2008 14:32:26 GMT -5 Chucara said:

That being said, I'd like if we could somehow get some other people in focus.

I agree

Nov 26, 2008 14:32:26 GMT -5 Chucara said:

This also leaves me to unvote miteym as he has actually gone on record with a few opinions.

*whipsers: "He" is a "She"

Nov 26, 2008 14:32:26 GMT -5 Chucara said:

This also makes me sort of second guess the whole lynch a lurker theory.. It's pretty easy for scum to "stop lurking" now that they know what we're looking for (at least me and totallost). On the other hand, at least it gets them to voice an opinion, and thereby possibly forcing a slip.

But is it better to lynch a lurker (even if it is a town-lurker) then to vote for some little flaw at the end of Day 1?

Let's say scum is going to stop lurking when someone votes for them as a lurker (or maybe even just suggests that they might be). Then we would (maybe) be able to tell something from my first count of post with game content to this stage in Day 1.

The list now looks like this:

1. Pedescribe 0 (said he would be away)

2. KidV 7 (+ 9)

3. Total Lost 8 (+ 6)

4. MiteyMouse 1 (+ 2)

5. Zeriel 5 (+ 1)

6. Kat 2 (+ 3)

7. bufftabby 2 (+ 2)

8. Sexy Squid (former hockeyguy) 0

9. Storyteller 4 (+ 7)

10. Chucara 4 (+ 4)

11. DBI 1

12. Peekercpa 13 (+ 4)

13. Sinjin 3 (+ 2)

14. Hoopy Frood 13 (+ 3)

15. Almost Human 5 (+ 8)

16. Mr Special Ed 7 (+ 4)

17. NAF 4 (+ 10)

18. misterblockey 1

19. MHaye 3

20. FCoD 7 (+ 4)

21. Cookies 4 (+ 2)

22. mmouse9977 1

23. Nanook 1 (+ 2)

24. Santo 8 (+ 10)

25. Shaggy (former Molefan) 23 (+ 2)

Some of those who hasn't posted since my first list is most likely not in here at the moment. So I'll leave them alone for now (Pede, Squid, DBI, misterB, MHaye and MM9977).

Others are very vocal both before and after - no need to state who

Then we have (with a total of less then 5 post with game related content):

MiteyM - did post twice with a post even dis-agreeing with Shaggy

Kat - seems to have her own opinion and don't seem to mind sharing it

Buff - didn't mind taking a different stand to NAT in regard to the fluff-debate

Sinjin - might not be very vocal but seems to play the game

Cookies - has been here. Did a lot of sort posts but really didn't say that much. I havn't played much with cookie and don't know her "usual posting style". This might be typical Cookies - could someone with more experience with Cookie tell me this?

Nanook - someone (forgot who - sorry) did say that it was very much like Nanook to be quiet. The 3 posts were good - but I would like to see/hear a bit more form Nanook.

Anyway - who is the most scummy?

MiteyM for posting 2 post after being called a lurker
or
Cookie for posting a lot of fluff but not really making big contributions to the game (even after the lurker-theory made 2 people vote for lurking alone)

I'm not sure the lynch-a-lurker-thing can bring anything really worth while - but I would like to draw attention to those not posting that much or posting without really saying anything.

[Total Ullz]

Nov 26, 2008 15:24:01 GMT -5 Total Ullz said:

Cookies - has been here. Did a lot of sort posts but really didn't say that much. I havn't played much with cookie and don't know her "usual posting style". This might be typical Cookies - could someone with more experience with Cookie tell me this?

Sorry - not "sort" posts - but SHORT posts

[Death By Irony]

Ah, the joys of playing mafia. Suspecting someone because they're too paranoid, or not paranoid enough, or because they're defending someone, or attacking someone else...

I'm still catching up, but I see that FCoD has soft-claimed a power role. For the time being I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Personally, I don't give much credence to "usual posting style" - players regardless of alignment will try different things anyway, or attempt to bank on previous reputations.

Since we now have 13 pages of content and I've otherwise been occupied working on my thesis project, I'm going to need a reread before I can cast my first vote. See you in a few...

[Total Ullz]

Nov 25, 2008 21:20:35 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

This discussion of FCOD has me thinking in a metagamey way, and I'm not sure that I'd like to go there.

Sounds to me you already did go there - please take me with you

Nov 25, 2008 21:20:35 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

I'm not sure how much that is appreciated. I'm also not familiar with the differences between how things work on this board and how things work on FB in terms of role delivery.


On this board, I only played (briefly) one mini-game, so I'm aware of the differences between PMs and message boards. That distinction is somewhat fuzzier on FB.

Nobody has asked you not to say anything yet - and I don't think the game is really that different on FB and here (less fluff - longer posts - but not really a different game).

I'd like to hear what you think you have seen (as in: please don't torment me anymore! I might die of curiosity if we lost you in the Night)

[Chucara]

totallost: The problem with counting the posts (and posts after the first list) is that it isn't necessarily scummy to start posting if you're in the searchlight. It might just as easily be a townie trying not to get dragged out of town by a horse.

*shrug* Dunno.. I think the lurker thing might've been a better idea on day three of so, when we can actually identify a pattern rather than who's busy on day one. Then again, that doesn't really solve anything in regards to our day one lycnh target, now does it?

Has there actually been a previous game with a really good (read: not lucky) day one strategy?

[Death By Irony]

I know I'm not supposed to vote for people out of sheer visceral annoyance, but I'm getting dangerously close.

Please, please please use proper punctuation and use smaller sentences, shaggy. It's just about impossible to understand the point you're getting across.

[special]

Nov 26, 2008 15:45:12 GMT -5 Total Ullz said:

Nov 25, 2008 21:20:35 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

This discussion of FCOD has me thinking in a metagamey way, and I'm not sure that I'd like to go there.

Sounds to me you already did go there - please take me with you

Nov 25, 2008 21:20:35 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

I'm not sure how much that is appreciated. I'm also not familiar with the differences between how things work on this board and how things work on FB in terms of role delivery.


On this board, I only played (briefly) one mini-game, so I'm aware of the differences between PMs and message boards. That distinction is somewhat fuzzier on FB.

Nobody has asked you not to say anything yet - and I don't think the game is really that different on FB and here (less fluff - longer posts - but not really a different game).

I'd like to hear what you think you have seen (as in: please don't torment me anymore! I might die of curiosity if we lost you in the Night)

OK, but I think, as the discussion of FCOD has gone on, and as I've checked into how things work here, it's not really a point.

Do Scum and Masons(if any) have a separate board to post on privately? instead of via a group PM like on FB?

[Høøpy Frøød]

Nov 26, 2008 17:32:29 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

Do Scum and Masons(if any) have a separate board to post on privately? instead of via a group PM like on FB?

Scum typically have a separate board that they communicate on.

Masons usually do, but not always.

Group PM's are usually not used, because if you're going to allow extra privileges for some group to communicate, it's just easier for everybody, mods included, since they typically want to monitor what's happening with the extraneous communication enabled groups, to use a message board.

But really, it's up to the mods how they want to have communication outside of the common game board take place.

[special]

Nov 26, 2008 18:12:11 GMT -5 Høøpy Frøød said:

Nov 26, 2008 17:32:29 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

Do Scum and Masons(if any) have a separate board to post on privately? instead of via a group PM like on FB?

Scum typically have a separate board that they communicate on.

Masons usually do, but not always.

Group PM's are usually not used, because if you're going to allow extra privileges for some group to communicate, it's just easier for everybody, mods included, since they typically want to monitor what's happening with the extraneous communication enabled groups, to use a message board.

But really, it's up to the mods how they want to have communication outside of the common game board take place.

Thanks, my metagamey thought was, maybe FCOD had not gotten a role PM. If here were a Mason or a Scum. And he might not have seen the similarity to that PM and an actual PM which is relatively similar to the posted Vanilla PM

[Santo Rugger]

Nov 26, 2008 3:37:27 GMT -5 Chucara said:

- Shaggy is vanilla, and FCOD is power role town. In this case it was basically a town power role claim. This makes no sense to me unless he is a town bomb or something.

- FCOD is vanilla pretending to be a town power role. This is a fine move, but if this is the case, why did he do it in a way that semi-outed molefan? And there's a huge risk of him getting lynched as the concensus seems to be that vanillas should not claim today.

Nov 26, 2008 14:32:26 GMT -5 Chucara said:

Nov 26, 2008 10:02:26 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

There are more options than the ones you've posed. Any reason you chose to leave them out? Also, setting up dichotomies is bad. Why are you doing it?

Well, isn't the role of a player a dichotomy by default? I mean, he can't possibly be vanilla and a power role. I get your point, and I'm really only thinking aloud here. It's just the way I analyze things.

You gave two, and only two, possibilities. Both cases in which FCOD was town. As I've said before, (and you mentioned somewhere also, I believe), if he's scum, we've got him in our back pocket. No need to rush. However, that does not mean the only two possibilities are that he is Vanilla or has a power role. The difference in the dichotomy I just set up was that mine had to do with FCOD, and FCOD alone. Yours, on the other hand, included molefan. You said, in the quote at the very top of my post, that either molefan was Vanilla and FCOD has a power role, OR FCOD is Vanilla pretending to be town role and "semi-outed" molefan. I'm not sure what you mean by semi-outed, but that type of dichotomy is what I'm saying is very dangerous.

What bothers me the most is that FCOD seems to me to be too clever a player accidentally make that slip. That leaves me to want to want to try to analyze the possible situations that could've caused his "slip".

If he did it on purpose, then it's because he is Vanilla and wants to get targeted at Night to protect power roles. The only other one is that he's scum and did it on purpose. However, if that were the case (and as much as I hate to say it) scum would never intentionally claim a confirmable role on Day 1, when it's not necessary. So, it's either an accident, and he's lying or telling the truth, or it was on purpose, and he's Vanilla.

Also, exhausting all possibilities would require a much longer list.

No. Watch this:

molefan is scum and FCOD is Vanilla
molefan is scum and FCOD is a power role
molefan is scum and FCOD is scum
molefan is town and FCOD is Vanilla
molefan is town and FCOD is a power role
molefan is town and FCOD is scum

Six possibilities. You didn't include either of the two where FCOD was scum (because he's your scum buddy and you're trying to protect him, or because you already know he's town?). I'm not sure how your second post classifies molefan, but regardless, you left out 2/3 of the possibilities. There's nothing wrong with listing them, but if you're going to exclude some, IMHO, you should say why.

The problem is that with FCOD's "slip", he is a likely candidate for a lynch, as he is basically the only one so far that has done anything out of the ordinary, now that molefan is subbed. I'm still considering voting FCOD, but I don't want to do so until I've(we've) thought this through.

You just said, in the very post I'm quoting, that the only two possibilities you see are that FCOD is town. Yet, in the same breath, you're saying he's a likely lynch candidate and that you're considering voting for him. I don't like it one bit.

Right now, assuming that his claim wasn't really a slip, I have problems seeing how this could be a pro-scum move.

He's already said it was really a slip. Actually, he said it in a fairly long post about five hours and a full page before your post. It also just so happened to be in a highly visible place; right at the top of the page. Not sure why you're still making that assumption.


The way you're approaching this problem just screams scum to me; there's too many inconsistencies, too many false assumptions.

I feel comfortable

voting for Chucara.

[peekercpa]

Nov 26, 2008 16:01:07 GMT -5 Chucara said:

totallost: The problem with counting the posts (and posts after the first list) is that it isn't necessarily scummy to start posting if you're in the searchlight. It might just as easily be a townie trying not to get dragged out of town by a horse.

*shrug* Dunno.. I think the lurker thing might've been a better idea on day three of so, when we can actually identify a pattern rather than who's busy on day one. Then again, that doesn't really solve anything in regards to our day one lycnh target, now does it?

Has there actually been a previous game with a really good (read: not lucky) day one strategy?

Well I can only speak from personal experience nut it seems to predominately come down to random, mass claim or lurker lynch or nitpicking a "slip" that is almost universally a town mistake.

And I really think the whole number of posts thing is rather subjective. So I just keep my own number in my head (and it's not exact - somewhere between none and a lot).

So we've had three areas of compelling discussion. The vanilla claim, the cow slip and the fluff discussion. Seems at least a little more meatier than normal Day ones.

[Gir!]

Generally, even with a scumboard and/or Mason board, the scum/Masons still get a PM with their role, it just already includes (usually) a list of their fellow scum/Masons, and the URL for the board. (I say usually, because at least once, the list was left out of the PM, but provided on the board.)

[special]

Nov 26, 2008 18:45:00 GMT -5 Gir! said:

Generally, even with a scumboard and/or Mason board, the scum/Masons still get a PM with their role, it just already includes (usually) a list of their fellow scum/Masons, and the URL for the board. (I say usually, because at least once, the list was left out of the PM, but provided on the board.)

Thanks, it makes sense that a Scum would still habe to get a PM to direct them to their scumboard.

On facebook, there's often just one large introductory message with all Scum or Masons in it

[peekercpa]

And Santo is dead on. I agree that saying one thing and then potentially positing a contrary action is, at best, questionable. But then chuc seems to play this game in a talking things out kind of way. So it's certainly not as damning, to me, as it would be if posted by someone else.

[ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies]

Nov 26, 2008 15:24:01 GMT -5 Total Ullz said:

Nov 26, 2008 14:32:26 GMT -5 Chucara said:

...

Cookies - has been here. Did a lot of sort posts but really didn't say that much. I havn't played much with cookie and don't know her "usual posting style". This might be typical Cookies - could someone with more experience with Cookie tell me this?

...

Anyway - who is the most scummy?

MiteyM for posting 2 post after being called a lurker
or
Cookie for posting a lot of fluff but not really making big contributions to the game (even after the lurker-theory made 2 people vote for lurking alone)

I'm not sure the lynch-a-lurker-thing can bring anything really worth while - but I would like to draw attention to those not posting that much or posting without really saying anything.

Ah lovely. Already at the top of someone's list as a worthless fluffer. This is going to be a fun game.

You're not seriously asking the rest of the players to do your meta-game homework for you and/or read my mind...are you?

[special]

I'm in a difficult spot.

Total and Almost are pursuing this lurker analysis in the game I am modding on FB. I feel like I cannot question this approach without providing them the opportunity to use my comments in the other game. I'm obviously aware of their roles and how successful their approach is proving on FB.

[special]

oh, what the hell, they can try to interpret me as they see fit.

I don't like this analysis. I think it's too easy to be manipulated by Scum. The Scum can easily change how they are posting. The Scum can even easily suggest analysis that makes certain people look bad. We're even talking about the fact that Scum should be changing how they post. So basically, they're just creating a WiFoM and then making a WiFoM out of the WiFoM.

I guess I'm asking, what's the point?

[Santo Rugger]

Nov 26, 2008 19:34:33 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

I'm in a difficult spot.

Total and Almost are pursuing this lurker analysis in the game I am modding on FB. I feel like I cannot question this approach without providing them the opportunity to use my comments in the other game. I'm obviously aware of their roles and how successful their approach is proving on FB.

There's an easy fix to that problem.

**********************
If anybody speaks of this game while it is still current in the Disney themed facebook game, they will be mod-killed on that site.
**********************

Idle, it'd be great if you could say the same for this game. We had this same problem when this board was new with crosstalk of current SDMB games, and that seems to have completely disappeared. Mods clamping down on it and players actively discouraging it is the only way to eliminate the problem.

[peekercpa]

Ok. No shit question. Does anyone use prior game behavior to influnece their perception of an indidividuals' current game play?

I'll go first.

Yes, I do. I was re-reading previous pages and KidV is twigging me. During Skrull he was all about lynching a town power role - Moi - for what I considered spurrious reasons. Now he seems to want to use "fluff" (and apparently I am the major culprit in his opinion) as a basis for determining suspicious/anti town behavior.

It just seems rather manufactured. And also wrong, IMHO.

Vote KidV

And BTW KidV if I didn't post for 72 hours does that now make me pro town? Because I think even you would admit that in between my "acid" ramblings that I do promote healthy doscussion. And, if not, why not?

[shaggy]

personally I am inclined to trust FCOD . This is cause With out a specific role claim and then any or no counter claim. For me it is to dangerous to lynch him for it.

As for lynch the lurkers. I always hear that lurking is a tall tell of whom is SCUM but I can not help but ask if that is true then would the SCUM not be smart enough to just not lurk then? So by lynching lurkers we may well be eliminating our own people. Yes some times it does pay off and I have seen it work. However I can not help but wonder how often it has went the other way.

[Zeriel]

In my experience, the "track the lurkers" thing in whatever its form has worked with VERY mixed success in most times it's tried, but who it's successful for depends a lot on whether town or scum initiates it--there are a lot of ways (including definitions of "lurker", "contributing", and "fluff") in which such a list can say within reasonable limits anything the list writer wants it to say.

Basically the primary value in keeping a low-grade threat on lurkers, IMHO, is that it encourages people to post more. More posts = more opportunities for analysis.

On the /F.OD/ issue, not much to say. He's thrown out a claim, and he has claimed it's provable. I for one am not going to push him into a claim without a better idea of why we'd want to do that toDay. (having been accused of pushing claims in the past)

Santo's got an interesting read on Chucara there. I, too, am suspicious of conspicuously excluded possibilities.

Mr Special Ed's last pair of posts rubs me weirdly, in the weird WIFOM surrounding his meta-gamey "I feel like I can't post this due to meta-gaming" followed withing 30min by "what the hell I'll post it anyway"

Combined with the weird smudging earlier, my guts and points south are telling me it'd be a worthwhile first move to vote Mr Special Ed. This is at best highly speculative. I'm not opposed to a Chucara lynch either.

Heh heh, Cookies is a fluffer.

[shaggy]

Nov 26, 2008 20:42:08 GMT -5 peekercpa said:

Ok. No shit question. Does anyone use prior game behavior to influnece their perception of an indidividuals' current game play?

I try not to but I will admit for those I know, I do. I find while we try and post a bit differant than we did before. Alot of the time people fall into the trap of playing simillar each time. So major changes in there playing behaviour is a sign to there alignment I think. With that being said I understand that players grow and get better. So small changes each game can easily be explained. However if lets say I am normally a passive player and suddenly i am verry agressive. That maybe a sign of something.

[special]

Nov 26, 2008 20:32:48 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Nov 26, 2008 19:34:33 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

I'm in a difficult spot.

Total and Almost are pursuing this lurker analysis in the game I am modding on FB. I feel like I cannot question this approach without providing them the opportunity to use my comments in the other game. I'm obviously aware of their roles and how successful their approach is proving on FB.

There's an easy fix to that problem.

**********************
If anybody speaks of this game while it is still current in the Disney themed facebook game, they will be mod-killed on that site.
**********************

Idle, it'd be great if you could say the same for this game. We had this same problem when this board was new with crosstalk of current SDMB games, and that seems to have completely disappeared. Mods clamping down on it and players actively discouraging it is the only way to eliminate the problem.

It wasn't that, Santo I was just afraid that by saying something here, they might use that analysis in the other game. It's odd having so many people playing 2 games at the same tie, and both in the early stages. It was especially odd to see someone pursuing the same strategy in both games.

And part of my odd feeling is that I know the orientation of these players in one of the games. But the majority of my odd feeling was that if I came out and argued against that approach in SMB, they might use that in some as as validation in Disney. It's difficult to prevent someone from using a strategy.

As for the accusations of feeling metagamey, I think a great deal of those feelings on my part are caused by having almost all of my experience on the FB site, and having a fair amount of knowledge of some of the players in this game and no knowledge of others. I also have limited knowledge of the set up of the games here.

[Santo Rugger]

Nov 26, 2008 20:51:08 GMT -5 shaggy said:

personally I am inclined to trust FCOD .

With ya so far.

This is cause With out a specific role claim and then any or no counter claim.

Huh?