Day One

[The Real FCOD]

Dec 1, 2008 19:00:54 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

...no, not really. Could you explain a bit more?

Ok, I'll try.

I had noticed a lot of suspicious behavior before I wrote the post in question, but to me it felt like a lot of town reacting to town. That is, I don't think all the suspicious stuff that went down had anything to do with scum. I felt that the scum were sitting back, staying quiet, and laughing at us. So, I decided to put my vote on someone I felt hasn't really participated toDay. On that note, I will totally switch from DBI to support an MMouse lynch if the wind blows that way.

Is that more clear?

--FCOD

[The Real FCOD]

NETA: Whoo that's two pages I've started toDay!

--FCOD

[Høøpy Frøød]

Dec 2, 2008 10:24:36 GMT -5 The Real FCOD said:

I had noticed a lot of suspicious behavior before I wrote the post in question, but to me it felt like a lot of town reacting to town. That is, I don't think all the suspicious stuff that went down had anything to do with scum. I felt that the scum were sitting back, staying quiet, and laughing at us.

I'm don't really agree with that. I bet at least one scum has been involved in the conflicts of the Day. While it seems the primary people involved in Day 1 attacks are town typically, scum will frequently fan the flames.

Plus, scum are able to communicate during the Day in this game, which is a huge advantage for them to adapt to current way the town is playing. I have a hard time believing they haven't used this adaptability to their advantage already.

[Santo Rugger]

Dec 2, 2008 10:24:36 GMT -5 The Real FCOD said:

On that note, I will totally switch from DBI to support an MMouse lynch if the wind blows that way.

A question for those who are in the current FB game: has MMouse been active there? (sorry, SpEd, I'll start helping you out again Today).

I had this dialog with somebody before, but there's a difference between a lurker and a flaker. Somebody who flakes is somebody who doesn't get online for whatever reason, whether it be a legitimate one or not. Somebody who lurks is somebody who's keeping tabs on the game, but just not posting. That's why it pisses me off when pressure votes on lurkers work, it's just saying, "we've accepted your behavior up until this point; better shape up!" If she really is lurking, and not flaking, I think we should vote her out, post haste. That behavioral is not acceptable.

[Høøpy Frøød]

Dec 1, 2008 12:24:31 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

Nov 25, 2008 19:08:53 GMT -5 NAF1138 said:

But I didn't want it to be the elephant in the room that only our doc didn' pick up on. I clearly wasn't the only one to notice, just the only one to say something. And I want FCoD to know that we noticed. Otherwise the whole thing gets magic baggy in a bad way.

This...is a good point. I missed it first time through.

So you concede that NAF had a good reason for outing FCOD here, but...

Dec 1, 2008 20:51:09 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

Dec 1, 2008 20:26:51 GMT -5 Nanook said:

That is certainly OMGUS. You don't see a difference between "This doesn't necessarily tell us anything" and "This doesn't necessarily tell us anything, but this other time the scum did it"? To me there's a world of difference between the two.

I said it was an "anti town maneuver". It was bad play. A bad play IS anti-town. Why is that so hard to understand when you articulated it earlier yourself? You know. You just want to 'trap' me in a 'slip', and see if anyone else jumps on the train.

...yet here you still say it's a bad play and anti-town. So do you ultimately agree with what NAF did or not? Do you think FCOD's status should have stayed hidden in spite of many of us noticing what he did (even if some of us chalked it up to multiple vanilla roles)? In other words, do you not fault NAF for what he did, but still disagree with it? Because that's what these two statements imply.

Or is it more complicated then that?

[Trepa Mayfield]

Dec 2, 2008 11:14:23 GMT -5 Høøpy Frøød said:

Dec 1, 2008 12:24:31 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

This...is a good point. I missed it first time through.

So you concede that NAF had a good reason for outing FCOD here, but...

Dec 1, 2008 20:51:09 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

I said it was an "anti town maneuver". It was bad play. A bad play IS anti-town. Why is that so hard to understand when you articulated it earlier yourself? You know. You just want to 'trap' me in a 'slip', and see if anyone else jumps on the train.

...yet here you still say it's a bad play and anti-town. So do you ultimately agree with what NAF did or not? Do you think FCOD's status should have stayed hidden in spite of many of us noticing what he did (even if some of us chalked it up to multiple vanilla roles)? In other words, do you not fault NAF for what he did, but still disagree with it? Because that's what these two statements imply.

Or is it more complicated then that?

At first, I thought the whole thing was a bad play, but then I looked back on it (when I made the first post you quoted) and realized that there was a good reason to get it out in the open. However, I still think the whole 'Hey guys which post was it' 'I'm not telling, this one no that one' thing was just stupid.

[bufftabby]

I'm gonna

unvote shaggy[/color]

Barring further evidence, I agree that it's unlikely molefan would have bailed if he were scum and the ship were going down. I think shaggy's difficulty in being undertood sometimes is part of what prompted me to vote for him in the first place.

I'd like to

vote misterblockey[/color] instead. He has posted since the Mr Special Ed debacle was resolved, but has not removed his vote or commented on the situation.

Rugger, who is mmouse on FB, and I'm sure I can answer your question. Yes, I'm too lazy to go to the front page of the discussion board. But you don't know what's going on in a game you're co-modding, ya slacker, so let's call it even.

[Trepa Mayfield]

Dec 2, 2008 10:24:36 GMT -5 The Real FCOD said:

Dec 1, 2008 19:00:54 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

...no, not really. Could you explain a bit more?

Ok, I'll try.

I had noticed a lot of suspicious behavior before I wrote the post in question, but to me it felt like a lot of town reacting to town. That is, I don't think all the suspicious stuff that went down had anything to do with scum. I felt that the scum were sitting back, staying quiet, and laughing at us. So, I decided to put my vote on someone I felt hasn't really participated toDay. On that note, I will totally switch from DBI to support an MMouse lynch if the wind blows that way.

Is that more clear?

--FCOD

Yeah, that makes sense. I'm sorta getting that feeling too (Except for Nanook. I am highly suspicious of him.).

[NAF1138]

Dec 2, 2008 12:02:08 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

However, I still think the whole 'Hey guys which post was it' 'I'm not telling, this one no that one' thing was just stupid.

It probably was. But it was worth a shot to see who else might not know that all players have names. Information is key to town pulling this out pede, we need as much of it as we can get in easily digestable bits and we need it as fast as possible.

[NAF1138]

Dec 2, 2008 12:05:52 GMT -5 bufftabby said:

I'd like to

vote misterblockey

[/color] instead. He has posted since the Mr Special Ed debacle was resolved, but has not removed his vote or commented on the situation.
[/quote]
bleached

Question for tabby.

In your opinion...what was the Mr. Special Ed debacle and how was it resolved?

[Idle Thoughts]

Dec 2, 2008 8:38:30 GMT -5 Høøpy Frøød said:

Something I've been wondering about.

You win when all the people who are aligned with Scum are dead.

This is the town win condition. Notice that there is no mention of 3rd parties in there. I see three possibilities, and I'll order them in most-likely to least likely:

1) We have 3rd parties, but they are similar to the non-serial killer types in Batman. Town can win by defeating all scum, and these third parties being alive has no bearing on that win. (Provided, of course, that the 3rd parties haven't achieved their own win conditions yet.)

2) There are no 3rd parties. Everybody is town or scum.

3) Idle goofed. (Not really considering that one.)

The main issue I see here is the presence of a serial killer. Usually, the serial killer has to die before any other side can win. However, there is no indication of this in our win condition. So if we have no serial killer, what is going to prevent this game from stretching out a long time if we don't have extra kills somewhere? In the game I'm designing with Rysto and NAF, the subject of game length has come up. I know NAF prefers a game to last not much beyond 8 cycles, because people began to get burned out at that point.

Assuming the figure of 5 scum which has been bandied about, if everyone is town or scum with no extra kills, the shortest this game can be is 5 Days with perfect lynching. (Not bloody likely.) With only town being lynched (also not very likely), this game is over in 8 Days.

However, let's say in those 8 Days, we've lynched 4 scum. By Dusk of Day 8, we will have 4 dead scum, and 11 dead townies. This leaves 10 people alive, only one of which is scum. This is four more Days before lylo. And this is assuming no night kill gets blocked.

With this many people, I find it hard to believe that there isn't something out there that speeds up the kill rate. (In Batman, we had 2 serial killers. In Marvel, scum had the plague and a percent chance of extra kill, and PFK had a power drainer. Town also had a Blocker with a 25% vig chance.)

If there are only 5 scum and no SK, I would expect all scum to have powers, and those powers are going to be doozies.

Thoughts?

There is actually a FOURTH option which you didn't think of but which still works. However the fourth one I doubt you'll ever guess, which is why I feel comfortable saying it here, in public, to everyone right now.

Trust me, it won't be guessed. But soon it will be known.

[Santo Rugger]

4)Idle is one crazy mother fucker?

[Santo Rugger]

Dec 2, 2008 12:05:52 GMT -5 bufftabby said:

Rugger, who is mmouse on FB, and I'm sure I can answer your question. Yes, I'm too lazy to go to the front page of the discussion board. But you don't know what's going on in a game you're co-modding, ya slacker, so let's call it even.

Looks like nobody, I was thinking of the other mouse. I thought they were both from there.

Idle, a little help? Not as mod of this game, but as creator and head of the facebook group.

[Idle Thoughts]

Dec 1, 2008 19:36:21 GMT -5 Special Ed said:

We read The Monsters Are Due on Maple Street in reading class where I teach during the Science Fiction Genre, then we watch the episode.

What's odd is that I put that link into a Night thread or a jacuzzi thread on FB somewhere. I didn't realize others though it reminded them of Mafia too.

This reading is quite enjoyable, and I think I'm learning a great deal. For now, my vote stands. I do wish I had more insight into how each of you play.

psychopathgame.proboards106.com/index.cgi?board=temp&action=display&thread=330

[storyteller0910]

Dec 2, 2008 12:10:45 GMT -5 NAF1138 said:

Question for tabby.

In your opinion...what was the Mr. Special Ed debacle and how was it resolved?

You know what I'm finding increasingly interesting? The repeated use of the word "debacle" to describe the situation involviong Mr. Special Ed in relation to myself and to molefan/shaggy.

bufftabby uses it here. Rugger used it a few days ago, and someone else picked it up from him (I'll figure out who it was presently).

I find it interesting because it is, if not a rare word, at least a not terribly common one. More importantly, it is one that doesn't really fit the circumstance. I'll address the following to Mr. Special Ed:

Do you think that the limited exchanges between us regarding molefan were especially heated, or that they represented a significant enough "event" in this game Day to be repeatedly discussed, referenced, and even described as a "debacle?"

Because I don't. And I wonder at the motivation of those who are determinedly trying to blow those events out of proportion via continual reference and word choice.

[Idle Thoughts]

mmouse is not in the FB group (or on FB at all) as far as I know.


Mr Special Ed - 3 votes (misterblockey, zeriel, Cookies)
Misterblockey - 3 votes (Total Lost, Hoopy Frood, bufftabby)
Chucara - 2 votes (Santo Rugger, shaggy)
shaggy - 2 votes (bufftabby, Mr Special Ed)
Total Lost - 2 votes (sinjin, Peekercpa)
mmouse - 2 votes (KidV, Kat)
Peekercpa - 1 vote (DBI)
miteymouse - 1 vote (Storyteller)
Pedescribe - 1 vote (Nanook)
Nanook - 1 vote (Pedescribe)
DBI - 1 vote (Flyingblankofdoom)

[NAF1138]

Dec 2, 2008 12:29:45 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

Because I don't. And I wonder at the motivation of those who are determinedly trying to blow those events out of proportion via continual reference and word choice.

No, I don't. That was more or less the point of my question. I am not sure how anything involving Mr. Special Ed can be considered a debacle. And, other than me personally deciding that he wasn't worth continuing to vote for, I am not sure how anything was particularly resolved.

The whole thing seems strange to me. That's why I wanted to hear what tabby had to say about it. Also, I went back and looked at her post history, and she didn't vote for Special Ed durring said "debacle", which makes her comment even more odd.

She has, on the other hand voted for shaggy, who she started off defending in one of her few substantive posts. She is also now rather safely voting for Blocky.

[Høøpy Frøød]

Dec 2, 2008 12:19:55 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

4)Idle is one crazy mother fucker?

I thought that was an axiom rather than a possibility.

Silly magic-bagging mods....

[storyteller0910]

Dec 2, 2008 12:39:01 GMT -5 NAF1138 said:

Dec 2, 2008 12:29:45 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

Because I don't. And I wonder at the motivation of those who are determinedly trying to blow those events out of proportion via continual reference and word choice.

No, I don't. That was more or less the point of my question. I am not sure how anything involving Mr. Special Ed can be considered a debacle. And, other than me personally deciding that he wasn't worth continuing to vote for, I am not sure how anything was particularly resolved.

The whole thing seems strange to me. That's why I wanted to hear what tabby had to say about it. Also, I went back and looked at her post history, and she didn't vote for Special Ed durring said "debacle", which makes her comment even more odd.

She has, on the other hand voted for shaggy, who she started off defending in one of her few substantive posts. She is also now rather safely voting for Blocky.

Yeah, I'm at home tonight, and I think I'll be curling up with bufftabby's post history after dinner.

[Santo Rugger]

Dec 2, 2008 12:29:45 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

You know what I'm finding increasingly interesting? The repeated use of the word "debacle" to describe the situation involviong Mr. Special Ed in relation to myself and to molefan/shaggy.

Huh? If by "repeated", you mean "twice", then yes.

bufftabby uses it here. Rugger used it a few days ago, and someone else picked it up from him (I'll figure out who it was presently).

No. Nobody else used it. A cursory search shows it was used in exactly five posts before the one I'm quoting; my original one, bufftabby used it twice (the first time saying she didn't get the debacle, the second saying the debacle was resolved), you quoted my post twice in a single post, and NAF asking tabby about it. That's it.

I find it interesting because it is, if not a rare word, at least a not terribly common one. More importantly, it is one that doesn't really fit the circumstance.

;D Sometimes I use a colossal expression when a modest one would suffice. I just looked up the word, I didn't realize it was so strong; I thought it was the polite way to say "cluster fuck".

[Høøpy Frøød]

Dec 2, 2008 12:18:36 GMT -5 Idle Thoughts said:

There is actually a FOURTH option which you didn't think of but which still works. However the fourth one I doubt you'll ever guess, which is why I feel comfortable saying it here, in public, to everyone right now.

Trust me, it won't be guessed. But soon it will be known.

Aha!

So by that logic, we are mod confirmed that there are 3rd parties out there.

Although, that "soon it will be known" thing is quite ominous in a calm before the storm way.

[bufftabby]

Dec 2, 2008 12:10:45 GMT -5 NAF1138 said:

Dec 2, 2008 12:05:52 GMT -5 bufftabby said:

I'd like to

vote misterblockey

[/color] instead. He has posted since the Mr Special Ed debacle was resolved, but has not removed his vote or commented on the situation.
[/quote]
bleached

Question for tabby.

In your opinion...what was the Mr. Special Ed debacle and how was it resolved? [/quote]

Mr Special Ed was seen as attacking molefan with more conviction than necessary, hounding him even. I didn't see anything scummy, and said so. Most of his voters discussed it, and eventually saw how empty the case against Ed was, and backed off. Blockey seems to have ignored that discussion.

And no, it's not a debacle. I should have kept the "" I had around it, but I didn't think it would be a BFD. JFC.



A question for you, NAF: why haven't you been stating who you're unvoting when you unvote? It seems like a great way to help us forget who you *were* voting for. I don't recall you ever unvoting that way before.

[Høøpy Frøød]

Dec 2, 2008 12:57:13 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Sometimes I use a colossal expression when a modest one would suffice. I just looked up the word, I didn't realize it was so strong; I thought it was the polite way to say "cluster fuck".

The more apropos word for the type of situation you want to describe would probably be "brouhaha". Though I tend to feel that the term clusterfuck is strong, and is far closer to debacle in meaning than "brouhaha". I'm not sure the Special Ed issue even rises up to a "brouhaha" level though. The discussion was far from heated.

[MiteyMouse]

Dec 2, 2008 11:07:25 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Dec 2, 2008 10:24:36 GMT -5 The Real FCOD said:

On that note, I will totally switch from DBI to support an MMouse lynch if the wind blows that way.

A question for those who are in the current FB game: has MMouse been active there? (sorry, SpEd, I'll start helping you out again Today).

I had this dialog with somebody before, but there's a difference between a lurker and a flaker. Somebody who flakes is somebody who doesn't get online for whatever reason, whether it be a legitimate one or not. Somebody who lurks is somebody who's keeping tabs on the game, but just not posting. That's why it pisses me off when pressure votes on lurkers work, it's just saying, "we've accepted your behavior up until this point; better shape up!" If she really is lurking, and not flaking, I think we should vote her out, post haste. That behavioral is not acceptable.

Two different mice Santo...I'm MiteyMouse, the one on FB. The other MMouse I don't think is on FB.

I haven't been super vocal, that is true...but, I have been here and posting.

[Zeriel]

Dec 1, 2008 23:24:27 GMT -5 Trepa Mayfield said:

Oh, okay. I just thought it was odd that Dude Mchasacockiel would mention lurkers so often.

Honestly, a lot of the reason I was harping on lists/lurkers early in the game is because I was needling NAF about it, after I nailed him as scum (rightly or wrongly) in Sekham over a lurker list that included me (took a few Days to seal the deal, though )

Glad you like the nickname, though.

[Santo Rugger]

Dec 2, 2008 13:07:32 GMT -5 Høøpy Frøød said:

Though I tend to feel that the term clusterfuck is strong, and is far closer to debacle in meaning than "brouhaha".

Okay, I'm laughing out loud over here. That was some funny shit!

But, seriously, I take it you've never played rugby or worked construction? We pretty much describe everything that goes wrong as a clusterfuck.

[NAF1138]

Dec 2, 2008 13:05:34 GMT -5 bufftabby said:

Dec 2, 2008 12:10:45 GMT -5 NAF1138 said:

bleached

Question for tabby.

In your opinion...what was the Mr. Special Ed debacle and how was it resolved?

Mr Special Ed was seen as attacking molefan with more conviction than necessary, hounding him even. I didn't see anything scummy, and said so. Most of his voters discussed it, and eventually saw how empty the case against Ed was, and backed off. Blockey seems to have ignored that discussion.

And no, it's not a debacle. I should have kept the "" I had around it, but I didn't think it would be a BFD. JFC.



A question for you, NAF: why haven't you been stating who you're unvoting when you unvote? It seems like a great way to help us forget who you *were* voting for. I don't recall you ever unvoting that way before.

I know it's terribly rude to answer a question with a question, but did you forget who I *was* voting for?

I was voting for Mr. Special Ed then Chucara in case you did forget. Ask Pede, he asked me why I unvoted each of them, so he can verify that I am not lying if you don't feel like looking up the vote counts or my original vote posts (each of which have been quoted a few times).

There is no particular reason why I changed, I just felt like doing something different I suppose. Mr. Ed has a long real name and I am never sure that I am spelling Chucara's name correctly, so...

Also I kinda wondered if someone would try to take a benign but obvious change in my posting style and use it against me to drum up some suspicion. Nice job on biting that bait.

[NAF1138]

NETA:

Wow, could I have been a bigger dick in that last post? Jeeze.

Much love to the tabby in general, just not in the game, not right now. But sorry for the dickishness.

[bufftabby]

Dec 2, 2008 12:57:13 GMT -5 Santo Rugger said:

Dec 2, 2008 12:29:45 GMT -5 storyteller0910 said:

You know what I'm finding increasingly interesting? The repeated use of the word "debacle" to describe the situation involviong Mr. Special Ed in relation to myself and to molefan/shaggy.

Huh? If by "repeated", you mean "twice", then yes.No. Nobody else used it. A cursory search shows it was used in exactly five posts before the one I'm quoting; my original one, bufftabby used it twice (the first time saying she didn't get the debacle, the second saying the debacle was resolved), you quoted my post twice in a single post, and NAF asking tabby about it. That's it.

Ha, I guess it looks like you're the one making a mountain out of a mole(fan)hill, now, story.

I find it interesting because it is, if not a rare word, at least a not terribly common one. More importantly, it is one that doesn't really fit the circumstance.

;D Sometimes I use a colossal expression when a modest one would suffice. I just looked up the word, I didn't realize it was so strong; I thought it was the polite way to say "cluster fuck".

Seconded, word for colossal word.

[Mister Blockey]

First of all I guess I'll unvote while I absorb all of this.

Secondly, thank you very much. All of this talk about not using gotcha methods which hit town and we're going to pounce on the guy who wasn't unsure enough to unvote woohoo!

I don't like just repeating what other people have said, it feels useless. I read the arguments from both sides, I was still wavering and didn't feel like uncommitting yet. I generally don't have much time to post lately so no, I don't go though the thread 5 times with a fine toothed comb looking for every little thing, and I sometimes when I'm in a hurry, I'll post a generality to at least get my point down.

And you know what, I also have some intensely personal shit going down that I really don't want to talk about, but it means I don't have much time for mafia. It's kind of hard to motivate myself when I sit down at my computer, and it's ok, I have time to do a,b,c, and d, or I can go read through the crapload of mafia posts that have gone up in my absence and go hmmmm, well shit I've got nothing.


As for the debacle debacle (heh) I took a look at the first time it was used and I think it looks more like a word getting attached to a situation merely through it's first use.

(Not much time so just search for the use of the word debacle in this thread.)

Santo uses it first, I think somewhat tongue in cheek.
Bufftabby then uses it, but in a post both responding to him and immediately after his post.
Story posts it but only inside quotes, and then the word doesn't appear again until today when bufftabby used it in reference to the driving reason for my vote, and since she had used that word in conjunction with that situation before, it's unsurprising she would use it again.
Every use afterwords appears to be in discussion of the word itself, so doesn't really count.

Also I checked bufftabby's posts quickly, and she doesn't appear to ever have defended me. She defends story and Mr. but I believe she is defending Mr. Special Ed there, not me.

So other than her "safe" vote on me I don't see much of a case against her.

Now, since I don't like being without a vote on record, and I've ended up defending the person I might vote via reaction, I'm going to have to go with lynching the person who actually seems to be lurking.

Vote MMouse

Tomorrow and the next day are the only days I have off this week. During those two days I will also be moving. Understandably, I hope, this means I'm not going to be able to do a ton of posting. Not to mention that the move is quite directly related to my intensely personal shit going on.

I will be around until about 2:30 EST, and maybe for a little bit again at about 11:30 EST. After that time it will be increasingly unlikely for me to be able to respond to you guys, let alone any motivational issues.