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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 1, 2009 14:15:58 GMT -5
Ok...so after a quick reread.
I quoted my PMs and nothing was said. AH posted her's and again nothing was said. Ped posted his and then the "new rule" post and PMs came out.
So, one or more of Myself, AH or Ped have lied about our PMs. The question now is who though?
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 1, 2009 14:18:12 GMT -5
Let me rephrase that...I know mine are real but, included myself in the list as, you all don't know for sure that they are and it would be silly for my to think that just because I said that they are, you would all believe me.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 14:51:48 GMT -5
Ok...so after a quick reread. I quoted my PMs and nothing was said. AH posted her's and again nothing was said. Ped posted his and then the "new rule" post and PMs came out. So, one or more of Myself, AH or Ped have lied about our PMs. The question now is who though? I always just assumed Idle was talking about the PM Pede used in his gambit in Day 3
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 14:54:50 GMT -5
Idle - if "someone" found a way to save the Days/Nights and put in online if we ever had a split again - would the Mod be okay with that?
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Post by special on Jan 1, 2009 14:59:45 GMT -5
Ok...so after a quick reread. I quoted my PMs and nothing was said. AH posted her's and again nothing was said. Ped posted his and then the "new rule" post and PMs came out. So, one or more of Myself, AH or Ped have lied about our PMs. The question now is who though? Idle didn't say any PMs were lies, however. He said no posting anything other than his original PM (or a lying original PM for Scum). Obviously Scum must be allowed to fake an original PM. But, Idle didn't say that anyone lied, just that posting more information than that would result in a mod kill.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 1, 2009 15:34:51 GMT -5
Idle - if "someone" found a way to save the Days/Nights and put in online if we ever had a split again - would the Mod be okay with that? Huh?
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 15:51:34 GMT -5
Idle - if "someone" found a way to save the Days/Nights and put in online if we ever had a split again - would the Mod be okay with that? Huh? *lol* did I do that? Where you just lost for words? WOW ;D All I mean is: When the split happened we lost all the previous Days and Nights - would it be okay if I put them online somewhere else then this site So they can't be lost again - or is it a part of the game that we lost them?
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Post by MiteyMouse on Jan 1, 2009 15:56:38 GMT -5
Ok...so after a quick reread. I quoted my PMs and nothing was said. AH posted her's and again nothing was said. Ped posted his and then the "new rule" post and PMs came out. So, one or more of Myself, AH or Ped have lied about our PMs. The question now is who though? Idle didn't say any PMs were lies, however. He said no posting anything other than his original PM (or a lying original PM for Scum). Obviously Scum must be allowed to fake an original PM. But, Idle didn't say that anyone lied, just that posting more information than that would result in a mod kill. He did however, say that some of us are good at making up fake PMs.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 1, 2009 16:11:19 GMT -5
I'm not feeling much on a vote target at the moment, but I'd like to defend my vote of shaggy at the least.
It was suggested that we should be careful with the fb players, not because it was thought that they're all scum, but because they seemed to be suffering from a familiarity effect.
In other words the scummy behavior threshold of fbers for other fbers seems much higher and they're much more likely to cuddle.
When shaggy responded the impression I got was something like, how dare you say all fb is scum that's stupid, which read to me as a simultaneous attempt to discredit the idea that fbers should make sure to take close looks at each other, and to develop an us v them attitude among the fbers.
I was grasping for a lynch target and when that came up combined with the mole/shag debacle at the start of the game, I felt justified in a vote.
While I was wrong in thinking he was scum, his behavior was a pro-scum behavior, so I'm not sorry for that mistake.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 1, 2009 16:30:39 GMT -5
Huh? *lol* did I do that? Where you just lost for words? WOW ;D All I mean is: When the split happened we lost all the previous Days and Nights - would it be okay if I put them online somewhere else then this site So they can't be lost again - or is it a part of the game that we lost them? Um...they're back now. Just look below this topic. I moved them back when this Day started.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 16:41:02 GMT -5
*lol* did I do that? Where you just lost for words? WOW ;D All I mean is: When the split happened we lost all the previous Days and Nights - would it be okay if I put them online somewhere else then this site So they can't be lost again - or is it a part of the game that we lost them? Um...they're back now. Just look below this topic. I moved them back when this Day started. I know - but I wanted to be sure it didn't happen again I'll just wait and see then...
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Post by special on Jan 1, 2009 17:00:51 GMT -5
It appears that 'debacle' has entered the mafia lexicon.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 17:11:57 GMT -5
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 1, 2009 17:12:04 GMT -5
well I happen to like the word....
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Post by special on Jan 1, 2009 17:15:17 GMT -5
well I happen to like the word.... I do too, but I think we need a consistent definition. Like an extended discussion over a topic where no general conclusion can be reached.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 1, 2009 17:15:25 GMT -5
Um...they're back now. Just look below this topic. I moved them back when this Day started. I know - but I wanted to be sure it didn't happen again I'll just wait and see then... That was just a game aspect because the groups were split and I couldn't make TWO copies of every past Day thread, that's all. But if you're wondering if that'll happen again (splitting). It won't. Hence my confusion.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Jan 1, 2009 17:16:34 GMT -5
Well, just edit FCOD's wiki to include it. You can do that you know, I know he wouldn't mind.
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 1, 2009 17:19:14 GMT -5
well I happen to like the word.... I do too, but I think we need a consistent definition. Like an extended discussion over a topic where no general conclusion can be reached. What you mean like the discussion of whether molefan was telling the truth when he claimed vanilla town and then was subsequently subbed in by shaggy resulting in more discussion without a conclusion which dominated much of day one? Like that? I say what I mean and I mean what I say dagnabit.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 17:19:54 GMT -5
I know - but I wanted to be sure it didn't happen again I'll just wait and see then... That was just a game aspect because the groups were split and I couldn't make TWO copies of every past Day thread, that's all. But if you're wondering if that'll happen again (splitting). It won't. Hence my confusion. I'm grateful - I really didn't mind the spilt (but I had looked forward to re-read and was a bit sad when I lost the opportunity). Oh, and I like your confusion - it's kind of sexy
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Post by KidVermicious on Jan 1, 2009 17:20:06 GMT -5
For the purpose of this analysis, I'm putting votes for known town in red, votes for scum in green, votes for PFK or unknown in black, and "throwaway" or novotes in yellow, with throwaway to be defined subjectively as voting for somebody at the bottom of the list.
This will be more useful once we get another confirmed scum, but it should show a couple data points anyway.
2. KidV - Bufftabby, mmouse, Pedescribe, Almost Human 3. Total Lost - DBI, novote, DBI, Zeriel 4. MiteyMouse - Chucara, mmouse9799, Peeker, DBI 5. Zeriel - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Mr Special Ed, Totallost 6. Kat - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Peeker, novote 10. Chucara - DBI, Miteymouse, Peeker, DBI 13. Sinjin - DBI, novote, Peeker, Shaggy 14. Hoopy Frood - Bufftabby, Miteymouse, DBI, DBI 15. Almost Human - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, DBI, Shaggy 16. Mr Special Ed - novote, novote, Peeker, DBI 18. misterblockey - mmouse, mmouse, novote, Shaggy 21. Cookies - DBI, mmouse, DBI, novote 23. Nanook - Bufftabby, mmouse, Peeker, Almost Human 24. Santo Rugger - Bufftabby, mmouse, Totallost, Shaggy
From this perspective, I'd say that Totallost, Chucara, Hoopy, and Cookies look decent... the Day Four DBI votes don't mean as much until timing is factored in, but they're there.
Zeriel looks very noncommittal, Kat is on the fist three lynchwagons, and Nanook is also a trainhopping fool.
I think this looks the worst for the misters, blockey and ed.
Again, these are just data points, and could mean anything. Just a little something more to stir into the pot... can you smell what I'm cooking yet?
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Post by special on Jan 1, 2009 17:21:29 GMT -5
I do too, but I think we need a consistent definition. Like an extended discussion over a topic where no general conclusion can be reached. What you mean like the discussion of whether molefan was telling the truth when he claimed vanilla town and then was subsequently subbed in by shaggy resulting in more discussion without a conclusion which dominated much of day one? Like that? I say what I mean and I mean what I say dagnabit. Not to fuel a debacle debacle ;-) but I was only arguing that he was making and anti-town play by claiming vanilla. The truth didn't even enter into the discussion.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 17:31:49 GMT -5
5. Zeriel - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Mr Special Ed, TotallostAgain, these are just data points, and could mean anything. Just a little something more to stir into the pot... can you smell what I'm cooking yet? Snipped I'm sorry I voted - but I still think in mafia one should vote for the most "scummy-looking"-player. I did (and do) feel that Zeriel based on the Day 1 votes is very scummy... so if we need to have a time of Day to unvote - when would that be? I feel our "hammer-mason" might be the right one to tell us when. I don't mind my vote (or unvote) right now, but I will not unvote before we are all on the same page! And do we have any idea what will happen to a "hammer-mason" underwater with no real opportunity to hammer?? This seems a bit unfair to me
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 1, 2009 17:38:08 GMT -5
I don't like your conclusions kidv, for instance using your data:
Sinjin, the only thing going for him is a day one vote for DBI which couldn't possibly ever have had alternate reasons behind it.
Santo is also the person who swung the vote away from DBI day one, which I figured out making sure I wasn't confused over the exact end of day one.
Mister special Ed is worrying me as well with that, but I need more time to look into it.
The case against me however boils down to the shaggy lynch, and I stand by it. With the combination of the early game mess surrounding him and his pro-scum behavior day 4, I had every reason to suspect him. I was wrong, but that doesn't mean my reasoning was.
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Post by KidVermicious on Jan 1, 2009 17:48:01 GMT -5
5. Zeriel - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Mr Special Ed, TotallostAgain, these are just data points, and could mean anything. Just a little something more to stir into the pot... can you smell what I'm cooking yet? Snipped I'm sorry I voted - but I still think in mafia one should vote for the most "scummy-looking"-player. I did (and do) feel that Zeriel based on the Day 1 votes is very scummy... so if we need to have a time of Day to unvote - when would that be? I feel our "hammer-mason" might be the right one to tell us when. I don't mind my vote (or unvote) right now, but I will not unvote before we are all on the same page! And do we have any idea what will happen to a "hammer-mason" underwater with no real opportunity to hammer?? This seems a bit unfair to me Of course you should vote for the scummiest player. But scum won't always do that, and vote analysis like the above can help point that out. It's all relative, of course. This kind of analysis on its own should never be enough to lynch somebody, and I'm not proposing that it is. But it does provide data points, which can be added to other data points to build cases against specific players. Do you feel that the vote record indicates anti-town behavior on your part? I haven't even wrapped my mind around the way voting is supposed to work today, let alone given any thought to hammering. I think my preference would be that we don't get into a place where I have to hammer... no sense ending the Day early.
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Post by Total Ullz on Jan 1, 2009 18:00:39 GMT -5
It's all relative, of course. This kind of analysis on its own should never be enough to lynch somebody, and I'm not proposing that it is. But it does provide data points, which can be added to other data points to build cases against specific players. Do you feel that the vote record indicates anti-town behavior on your part? I haven't even wrapped my mind around the way voting is supposed to work today, let alone given any thought to hammering. I think my preference would be that we don't get into a place where I have to hammer... no sense ending the Day early. No - it's just... I did vote toDay for Zeriel. Maybe I shouldn't have done it - but I did and now all I can do is to un-vote. This might not be the time to do do - but at some point we'll need to UNvote to get a lynch. And we need to think of the "hammer brothers" if we ever get close to a hammer!
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Post by KidVermicious on Jan 1, 2009 18:06:04 GMT -5
I don't like your conclusions kidv, for instance using your data: Sinjin, the only thing going for him is a day one vote for DBI which couldn't possibly ever have had alternate reasons behind it. Santo is also the person who swung the vote away from DBI day one, which I figured out making sure I wasn't confused over the exact end of day one. Mister special Ed is worrying me as well with that, but I need more time to look into it. The case against me however boils down to the shaggy lynch, and I stand by it. With the combination of the early game mess surrounding him and his pro-scum behavior day 4, I had every reason to suspect him. I was wrong, but that doesn't mean my reasoning was. I haven't made any conclusions, yet, Blockey. As I compile these data points, I'm seeing some suspicions reinforced, I'm scratching off some others, and I'm developing some new ones too. This one list, by itself, is nothing. It's a look at where players ended each Day with their vote, completely divorced from the timing of each vote, stated motivations, etc. You're right about Sinjin, it does look bad for her. I missed that. Santo's isn't pretty either, although I think the others I mentioned look worse. But you know what, I don't look exactly pristine on that list either . So I repeat, it's nothing but data points, and I'm throwing it all down now because there's a good chance I won't be around Tomorrow, and I don't see anybody else doing hard analysis. But as long as we're talking about you - you do understand why I assert that two votes for a PFK (one of them a throwaway), then a no-vote, then a bandwagon vote (fairly late in the day, if I remember correctly) looks suspicious on the face of it?
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Post by Mister Blockey on Jan 1, 2009 18:12:46 GMT -5
My vote wasn't a bandwagon vote. In fact unless my mind is gone, shaggy was not in the lead when I placed my vote. Not that it makes me look better, but I think my vote and reasoning was more likely the cause of the lynch than a +1.
I mostly objected to seemingly being put in the top two by you after that list.
Also I didn't find a real point v Santo in your lists, however when I was rereading the day one lynch to see how close it really was and hence how much weight we can put on someone having a dbi vote that day, I noticed Santo was the one who seemed to turn the tide onto bufftabby. Not that it wasn't a good reason, it was just something I noticed.
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Post by Chucara on Jan 1, 2009 18:19:20 GMT -5
I don't necessarily like the way KidV performs the analysis, but I think there are good points to be found. I'm so confused about the voting that I don't dare cast one right now, but if I could misterblockey would be my target. One part for not voting and one part gut feeling.
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Post by special on Jan 1, 2009 18:29:03 GMT -5
For the purpose of this analysis, I'm putting votes for known town in red, votes for scum in green, votes for PFK or unknown in black, and "throwaway" or novotes in yellow, with throwaway to be defined subjectively as voting for somebody at the bottom of the list. This will be more useful once we get another confirmed scum, but it should show a couple data points anyway. 2. KidV - Bufftabby, mmouse, Pedescribe, Almost Human 3. Total Lost - DBI, novote, DBI, Zeriel4. MiteyMouse - Chucara, mmouse9799, Peeker, DBI5. Zeriel - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Mr Special Ed, Totallost6. Kat - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, Peeker, novote10. Chucara - DBI, Miteymouse, Peeker, DBI13. Sinjin - DBI, novote, Peeker, Shaggy 14. Hoopy Frood - Bufftabby, Miteymouse, DBI, DBI15. Almost Human - Bufftabby, mmouse9799, DBI, Shaggy16. Mr Special Ed - novote, novote, Peeker, DBI18. misterblockey - mmouse, mmouse, novote, Shaggy21. Cookies - DBI, mmouse, DBI, novote23. Nanook - Bufftabby, mmouse, Peeker, Almost Human 24. Santo Rugger - Bufftabby, mmouse, Totallost, ShaggyFrom this perspective, I'd say that Totallost, Chucara, Hoopy, and Cookies look decent... the Day Four DBI votes don't mean as much until timing is factored in, but they're there. Zeriel looks very noncommittal, Kat is on the fist three lynchwagons, and Nanook is also a trainhopping fool. I think this looks the worst for the misters, blockey and ed. Again, these are just data points, and could mean anything. Just a little something more to stir into the pot... can you smell what I'm cooking yet? On Day 1, I had no vote because I didn't really feel anyone to be scummy. Buffy claimed, and I had one of her needed berries, but I didn't make it back in time to vote before the Day ended as I'd planned. On Day 2. I was the 4th to vote for mmouse (and still was able to vote on page 1) I took a lot of heat for voting for a claimed PFK who claimed their win condition was not pro-town. Later, as the debate between which mouse to vote for continued, I unvoted and voted for Idle. It's true I didn't revote, but that's because mmouse reached the threshold On Day 3, I did vote for peeker . I was wrong, but he did seem scummy with the whole "town win condition" debacle. On Day 4, I was very quick in pointing out DBI's slip, and voted for her after a bit, because it allowed us to keep our discussion going about pede. But I did vote for DBI, even when the vote was still close. I took her from a 3-2 lead to a 4-2 lead. Each Day, I've been very vocal about the play I've seen that's been anti-town. In Day 1, that included molefan/shaggy's early claim as well as the other claims. In Day 2, I was vocal about eliminating our claimed not pro-town PFK when our win condition was to kill the PFKs In Day 3, I was vocal against peeker's slip, though in hindsight, that was a mistake. In Day 4, I expressed my suspicion of pede's claim/counterclaim of himself as well as DBI's slip. ToDay, I was critical of the additional claims (although, I've claimed myself, I've only done so it actually make it easier to be lynched) I don't have a real problem with hoopy's claim, but I do with Nanook's, since it increases our vulnerability. I feel I'm drawing a lot of heat for being vocal about the anti-town play I see, and maybe that's fair, but I'm not going to stop expressing my opinions. Hopefully, I'll help lead us to a win, even if I do end up being lynched or killed.
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Post by sinjin on Jan 1, 2009 19:46:24 GMT -5
I don't like your conclusions kidv, for instance using your data: Sinjin, the only thing going for him is a day one vote for DBI which couldn't possibly ever have had alternate reasons behind it. Ok, this is totally bs MB. I always have reasons for my votes and I always note them. If you go back and reread I basically started the wagon on DBI. I didn't continue on her case Day 2 because she started posting semi-regularly in her own weird* way and a better candidate came up = the self-proclaimed PFK. If you check the record and don't just go by vote records I was obviously for the mmouse lynch. I didn't vote for her myself because I thought she might be a bomb and selfishly didn't want to get random killed on day two**. On day three Peeker made what seemed to be an obvious scum slip and so got my vote. Finally, I also stand by my shaggy vote. I really had a hard time understanding what he was saying as I said in the thread. And what I thought I understood sounded extremely scummy. Why in particular did you single me out? Are you going after me because in Day 4 I noted that you had posted the same few number of times as Nanook and less substantially? *Remember this is the chick who got lynched THREE times in Firefly and was town every time. **I got offed in my last game day two.
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