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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 7, 2010 19:04:53 GMT -5
SQUEEK! (Why I am voting for E. Bathory, part the 2nd, per the CookiesMonk's request. All posts are from Day Three.) So Zedd is lying, that seems pretty clear. Now why would Stay Puft kill one of the claimed cops before there was time to prove or disprove their role? I'm feeling obliged to think SK. Which sort of leaves me thinking that it might be best to leave Buddy Christ til toMorrow. We know what he is and can disregard an investigation until we lynch him toMorrow. I think Stay Puft as an SK is more dangerous to Town than Buddy Christ is at present. I mean also that we should be measuring up Zedd and quizzing him closely but right now to me it makes more sense to lynch someone who looks awfully like an SK. If Stay Puft is an SK and is left alive he kills and scum kill then we lose two people. If we lynch him then we don't really know what Zedd is but we know he's probably less dangerous of the two. Oh that reminds me, (well it doesn't, but...) vote Buddy ChristI admit I panicked a bit at the idea of an SK. Having read what was posted since I agree that it's probably best to lynch (crucify?) the one we are sure of and use other town roles to try to protect us from Stay Puft. Although it's possible he's not an SK he is still a compulsive vig and that gives me the heebie jeebies. But I'm going to bow to wisdom of the masses as you've all played this game much more than I and I'd rather go with considered experience than my own flailing around. I can see from the explanations that a compulsive vig can be useful in some circumstances (but I still think he's an SK!). SQUEEK (Which can roughly be condensed to: "Hey, don't vote for the 'confirmed' Scum! Vote for someone else instead! Here, I'll try to start the bandwagon! Oh, damn, no bandwagon! Better vote for that Scum now, lest someone think I'm Scum.") SQUEEK (You know, or that could completely be me talking out my tail, but that pinged me, and today's posts settled me.)
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Oct 7, 2010 19:15:04 GMT -5
::: Clicks on the TV and starts laughing silently at length :::
OOG
Hey Raj, your show is good tonight.
God help us if The Dope starts playing "Counter-Factuals"
/OOG
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Post by special on Oct 7, 2010 19:18:07 GMT -5
::: Clicks on the TV and starts laughing silently at length ::: OOG Hey Raj, your show is good tonight. God help us if The Dope starts playing "Counter-Factuals" /OOG suffered in silence?!?!?!
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Post by Red Skeezix on Oct 7, 2010 20:33:46 GMT -5
Would the people voting for Elizabeth mind pointing at something that was not posted in the past 10 hours to support their cases? Since when did suspicion only become valid when it sits further back in time? I can see how some of the wording in her post is odd and worthy of questioning, but voting seems like a stretch and those votes are already piling up. It's late in the day. Votes do that late in the day. Better today, than tomorrow. At least she'll have a chance to respond? Gir! and Total are providing testimony contrary to the information that the Masons have. YesterDay, that was an offense that apparently warranted a full-court presses to kill other players who also had contradicting testimony. The only recipient of that pressure so far is our dead Town Vig. So looking hard at Gir! and Total based on the information at hand isn't coming out of left field. The full court press came after we had an almost definite lynch target, gave us something to talk about and it kept discussion alive on a day when it would normally be pretty quiet. Today is a different day, with different information. Furthermore, if you have a reason to believe that Elizabeth is town, I'll listen. Is Gir! trying to say she was redirected from me to batman?
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Oct 7, 2010 21:10:11 GMT -5
*points to where nose would be if Gir had a nose*
It made sense at the time. Now, I look back and say "That was stupid."
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 7, 2010 23:09:07 GMT -5
Would the people voting for Elizabeth mind pointing at something that was not posted in the past 10 hours to support their cases? Since when did suspicion only become valid when it sits further back in time? Did I say that? No. Again, I said nothing about the time of Day being an issue. Any other words you want to put into my mouth? The implication that I was making, and which I still believe, is that a case against Elizabeth would be more compelling to me, if it included more than odd language in one fresh post. There were no slips in her post, no PIS syndrome, no shockingly untraditional proposals of dubious intent. She seems to ramble a bit and use "bugged me" in a vague manner. I don't see it as a lynching offense, and I wanted to hear more from those who it appeared to think otherwise because they only pointed to the recent things when voting for her. Ah, there are some more, but I don't want those words in my mouth either. That does appear to be what Gir! has been trying to say.
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timmy
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Post by timmy on Oct 7, 2010 23:52:07 GMT -5
And folks, I'll say it again. We have two investigators(at least, it looks). I assume the game is complex enough that the mods felt we needed two. I mean, that's kind of powerful for a regular game. Or could mean it's not as extraordinary, and you are Scum. I do want to know why KatGir! and Total Galadriel were visiting Bill McBatman though. Absent any further information my vote is going to rest on one of those two. I'm going to leave it til tomorrow though as it's bedtime and I want to pull out some proper information on each. Been wondering about that too. All who visited the Batcave claimed doing so except for those two. Some were redirected. Some were not. Would the people voting for Elizabeth mind pointing at something that was not posted in the past 10 hours to support their cases? I can see how some of the wording in her post is odd and worthy of questioning, but voting seems like a stretch and those votes are already piling up. Gir! and Total are providing testimony contrary to the information that the Masons have. YesterDay, that was an offense that apparently warranted a full-court presses to kill other players who also had contradicting testimony. The only recipient of that pressure so far is our dead Town Vig. So looking hard at Gir! and Total based on the information at hand isn't coming out of left field. Gir claims redirection got her there. Might be another Scum ploy to avoid suspicion. Been long time coming forth with this information. Tempted to vote for Total for not coming forth with reason for being with Batman. Tempted to vote for Gir for flimsy claim. Tempted to hop on bandwagon and vote for the Countess. Tempted to vote Zedd for lack of substantial information. But willing to let Zedd live to perform one more action. And willing to hear what Total has to say when released from jail. Countess sounds more Town than Scum. Willing to give her benefit of doubt. Will vote for Gir because of weak reveal. vote Gir!Too many redirections going on that Night. Can't believe Scum could be so capable to perform multiple actions of redirection. Even if one-shot ability. Someone has to be lying. And unlikely Town would have both redirector and roleblocker. Scum may have them, but not one that can do multiple redirections. And Total's possibilty of being protector seems fishy. If she said something about being Prostitute, sleeping with a target, sounds like Roleblocker to me. And why would Town need two Roleblockers? Very tempted to switch vote to Total but willing to hear her out first.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Oct 8, 2010 0:24:37 GMT -5
Gir claims redirection got her there. Might be another Scum ploy to avoid suspicion. Been long time coming forth with this information. Only if "long time" means "a week ago" in your gigantic Dibhead. Don't hold your breath. Or do, we'll watch you turn purple. Are you even reading?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 8, 2010 0:36:19 GMT -5
I think he means before she was jailed. She [TotalG] had a window of opportunity to provide that info.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Oct 8, 2010 1:39:23 GMT -5
Unofficial vote count; please check my work. 4 Elizabeth Bathory: Raj (281), Death of Rats (287), Corinthian (288), Zedd (294) 3 Gir: Batman (189), Nordom (284), Rorschach (306) 3 Zedd: Curious George (37), Meeko (63), Iskaral Pust (75) 1 Curious George: Marcel (27) 1 Iskaral Pust: Homicidal Maniac (145) Having difficulty wading through the pool of players. Some appear Scum but none I can muster an argument worth lynching. Not convinced Zedd is Scum, want to give him one more Day to work his claimed power. Ehhh. I don't like these first two sentences at all. They reek of scum trying to explain why they can't find a case. Vote: Rorschach
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Post by septimus on Oct 8, 2010 1:40:11 GMT -5
A meta-question: How much of players' reactions are based on prior experience with fellow players? That is, do you remember the differences between someone's scum play and town play and react to that? (My impression is that many of you are too skillful to have obvious tells, but there must be something, no?) I'm not happy about the case against either vote frontrunner. Zedd says we'd be lame to think he'd be lame enough to claim a lame role only lame players would believe. This argument seems so lame, I'm inclined to believe it! Am I just being lame? As for the case against Elizabeth Bathory, this novice would draw the opposite conclusion of Dr. Rajesh: What did you learn during your eening of raking through the Day 2 votes? I'm surely if there was enough for an entire evening, you'd have something to share, no? If I knew who the Townies were and wanted to smudge them, I think I'd find "something to share." Thus I empathize with Elizabeth B.; I'm sifting through the thread trying to find ways to accuse scum, but I don't know who they are. I was almost glad to get rid of this filibusterer even if he was Town. Wow. Just wow. Regardless of how you feel about him, he was town and his death brings the scum closer to winning. I mean, jesus, what a thing to say. Given the "almost" suggesting tongue-in-check as well as the fact that a redirectable Vigilante is a very doubtful Town asset I find this remark somewhat smudgy. There's a lot of suspicion about the masons; is it scum-driven? (And we don't think or speak with a single voice, as some of you assume. Time zone is one factor; now is prime time for me, while others are asleep.) Anyway, I'm afraid both frontrunners may be Town. I might vote against Gir!, for reasons others have given. This might force a partial role claim, but that's better than a Lynch. (One reason I'm not voting her now, is that my bandwagon-vote in the only other mafia game I've played may have forced Kat! to claim Seer. ) I'm afraid she'll never forgive me if this happens twice in a row.
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Post by BillMc on Oct 8, 2010 6:32:53 GMT -5
but what i don't get is why you and bill/batty aren't all over each other's asses. i mean if you folks feel compelled to kill a mason to confirm the other two and our results i really don't give a shit. i always play for a team win. in this case that would be town. and fuck you have to admit that other than batty fucking calling out buddy the two of you really haven't done dick. oh noes, we are all blocked. oh, yey bill/batty is not a town threat. oh crap i went and investigated a claimed mason and ended up on jack who is not a town threat (whatever the fuck that is supposed to mean - based on your terminology). i am rapidly approaching the congruence of what you are saying and bullshit. oh whoops, i already arrived there. It's exactly this type of post that makes folks doubt whether the masons are pulling wool over our eyes. I'm willing to trust zed for exactly the same reasons that I trust the masons - if zed or the masons are lying it will all come out in the wash. Killing a mason to prove the masons is as pointless as killing zed. There are plenty of other players that we need to look at before killng off folk who are most likely town.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Oct 8, 2010 6:34:54 GMT -5
I've got a growing list of people I'm not interested in voting for and nothing on the other end myself, as much as I am loathe to admit being in the same boat as Rorschach. I'd vote for him but it would make me a hypocrite.
I'm not convinced enough to vote for Zedd, or for Elizabeth, or for Gir, or for any of the Masons, as much as they continue to rub be 3 different wrong ways.
Where did Big Sister go? Nordom has posted a lot but none of it has made an impression on me. I'm going to re-read him.
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 8, 2010 7:56:49 GMT -5
OK.
So Gir! is claiming to have targeted The Corinthian (a Mason) and to have been redirected to Batman (a Detective).
Stay Puft, who we now know to have been Town, appears to have been redirected from his target (Dexter) to Batman (based on the fact that the Masons saw him there). He was a killer.
Lt. Columbo, who we now know to have been Town, targeted Death of Rats, and does not appear to have been redirected (based on the fact that the Masons did NOT see him targeting Batman). He was a role-blocker.
Batman himself, who I strongly believe to be Town, was not evidently redirected. He is an investigator.
I may or may not have been redirected, as I targeted Batman on purpose. I am an inventor, but my purpose was non-lethal.
This is not consistent with a mass redirect. But what about a mass redirect of killers only? This would fit with all of the results we have seen (other than the fact that Batman is still alive, but there are multiple possible explanations for that). Other than multiple individual redirectors, all choosing independently (or in coordination, which is scary) to redirect random players to Batman - and why would they do that? - I can think of no other explanation that makes any kind of sense for the results we have seen so far.
Such would require both Gir! and Total Galadriel to be killers.
I can't think of a reason why Gir! would have been redirected to Batman but Lt. Columbo would not, unless only players with a particular power were redirected.
unvote Iskaral Pust vote Gir!
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 8:10:29 GMT -5
OK. So Gir! is claiming to have targeted The Corinthian (a Mason) and to have been redirected to Batman (a Detective). Where?
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Post by storyteller0910 on Oct 8, 2010 8:13:51 GMT -5
OK. So Gir! is claiming to have targeted The Corinthian (a Mason) and to have been redirected to Batman (a Detective). Where? 303 & 304, unless Gir! is using a different meaning for the "pointing at her nose" gesture than the one with which I'm familiar.
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 8:35:24 GMT -5
I skipped right over the "from me" in post 303. This is as sure as Shadowthrone being nuttier than a Clark bar, right?
unvote[/color] vote: Gir![/color]
The only innocent explanation I can think of for such a redirect in fact happening involves the masons being non-town, and it's rather convoluted at that. I'm not prepared to go there at this point. But maybe tomorrow! Kidding, heehee. Mostly, heehee.
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Post by julie on Oct 8, 2010 8:56:24 GMT -5
There are approximately 10 hours to end of Day.
Current Vote Count
5 Gir: Batman (189), Nordom (284), Rorschach (306), Homicidal Maniac (313), Iskaral Pust (316)
5 Elizabeth Bathory: Raj (281), Death of Rats (287), The Corinthian (288), Zedd (294)
2 Zedd: Curious George (37), Meeko (63)
1 Curious George: Marcel (27)
1 Rorschach: Jack Skellington (309)
In the event of a tie, the mods will randomly select from the following two options.
* No player is lynched. * All players tied for the lynch lead are lynched.
Corrections always welcome.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 8, 2010 9:17:13 GMT -5
SQUEEK! (I see we have the extra vote on Elizabeth Bathory now.)
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 8, 2010 10:49:03 GMT -5
SQUEEK (So, our vote powerer/invisible vote wants a tie, or was trying to push Bathory into a solid lead. I'm more than happy with my vote where it is, but a tie is possibly a very bad thing; no-lynch worse than a double-lynch, I suppose, but either way.)
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Oct 8, 2010 10:53:39 GMT -5
Gir! claimed not being at Batman somewhere in the middle of Day Three. Day One voted Marcel for policy voting a claimed compulsory vigilante. Day Two voted Zedd until he claims. Day Three (and Four so far) no vote or accusations made. Gir!, you said that targeting Corinthian was stupid - that's just hindsight because he's hadn't claimed mason at that point?
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Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Oct 8, 2010 11:47:04 GMT -5
Chitter....
Little Indian Girl: Ties are bad..... very bad.... and the fact that the invisi-vote is on E. Bath feels dubious to me. I don't trust the invisi-voter... (probably because that vote was on me yesterday....) So... tie breaking vote it is, and I'll just have to agree to give Zedd one more Night to try to prove his power is useful to Town.
Unvote: Zedd
Vote: Gir!
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Post by Sister Coyote on Oct 8, 2010 12:17:08 GMT -5
SQUEEK! (I'd be a lot more comfortable with the votes on Gir! if we knew who Total had targeted. Presumably it wasn't Dexter, but what if there were two redirects, and one of them was away from the Corinthian?) SQUEEK (To wander away from the game for a moment -- sort of.) A meta-question: How much of players' reactions are based on prior experience with fellow players? That is, do you remember the differences between someone's scum play and town play and react to that? (My impression is that many of you are too skillful to have obvious tells, but there must be something, no?) SQUEEK! (It is inevitable that our previous experiences will color the way we see someone else's play, but it's not always quite as simple as that. Total and I have very different playstyles, to the point that we almost inevitably think the other is Scum. Georgepeeker thinks that I'm only confused when I'm scum, but I always get confused so it's not really a "tell." Sometimes, players who are usually verbose but are very quiet in a particular game might be Scum. Or, they might be overwhelmed by what's going on in meatspace.) SQUEEK! (This is why MHaye always reminds people not to hold grudges.)
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 12:40:28 GMT -5
SQUEEK! (I'd be a lot more comfortable with the votes on Gir! if we knew who Total had targeted. Presumably it wasn't Dexter, but what if there were two redirects, and one of them was away from the Corinthian?) OOC to my regret; I have to run an errand in a few minutes. I guess that's my cue to set out my reasoning. I was hoping to get a response from Gir first, but oh well. So assume Gir is telling the truth. Absent something more exotic going on (Homicidal Maniac's theory or whatever else), that means either Gir herself was redirected from (whoever) to Batman; or (whoever) was redirected from Corinthian to Batman. We already can guess that Stay-Puft was the target of a redirection of the first sort. Two such redirectors in the game seems unlikely, but let's follow it through anyway: If second redirector is town, directing Gir to Batman makes no sense, with Gir's own power unknown. What if Gir's a roleblocker? If the second redirector is anti-town, same thing. What if Gir is a protector? Now assume a redirector of the second (target) type. If this redirector is town, directing actions away from a claimed Mason is perfectly logical, but sending them onto the claimed cop? Not so much. Assume instead the redirector is anti-town. In this case why direct actions away from the mason? (This is where I get my "unless the masons themselves are not town" bit from my last post. I still think it very low likelihood, but at least it's self-consistent.) No traditional role can explain the logic of Gir's claimed redirection. Either she's lying, or it's something non-traditional. Homicidal Maniac offers a plausible non-traditional explanation that is also damning for her. Hence my vote.
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 12:46:47 GMT -5
unvote[/color] vote: Homicidal Maniac[/color]
People in Story's game on the Dope will know why. Too much of a coincidence for me. I don't like this, but it would be ridiculous to ignore it.
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 12:48:26 GMT -5
(NETA: Am I jumping the gun? What's the timing of Story's claim here versus the start of that game? I don't want to be an idiot.)
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Post by BillMc on Oct 8, 2010 12:48:36 GMT -5
OK. So Gir! is claiming to have targeted The Corinthian (a Mason) and to have been redirected to Batman (a Detective). Stay Puft, who we now know to have been Town, appears to have been redirected from his target (Dexter) to Batman (based on the fact that the Masons saw him there). He was a killer. Lt. Columbo, who we now know to have been Town, targeted Death of Rats, and does not appear to have been redirected (based on the fact that the Masons did NOT see him targeting Batman). He was a role-blocker. Batman himself, who I strongly believe to be Town, was not evidently redirected. He is an investigator. I may or may not have been redirected, as I targeted Batman on purpose. I am an inventor, but my purpose was non-lethal. This is not consistent with a mass redirect. But what about a mass redirect of killers only? This would fit with all of the results we have seen (other than the fact that Batman is still alive, but there are multiple possible explanations for that). Other than multiple individual redirectors, all choosing independently (or in coordination, which is scary) to redirect random players to Batman - and why would they do that? - I can think of no other explanation that makes any kind of sense for the results we have seen so far. Such would require both Gir! and Total Galadriel to be killers. I can't think of a reason why Gir! would have been redirected to Batman but Lt. Columbo would not, unless only players with a particular power were redirected. unvote Iskaral Pust vote Gir! That's pretty much what I was getting at. Oh dear, I've not just agreed with Story - must be more careful in the future :-)
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Post by Renata on Oct 8, 2010 12:56:36 GMT -5
(Evil Dead went up on the 29th; his claim here was the 1st or thereabouts. He would have had his PM for a while prior to the 29th; so it all depends on when his PMs were finalized for the SDMB game. Aaargh, I hate meta-game crap so very, very much. Vote retracted, it's not definite.)
unvote[/color] vote: Gir[/color]
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Post by BillMc on Oct 8, 2010 13:18:01 GMT -5
Let me show you how it's done: Vote: Elizabeth Bathory for what I've just said. I can see those teacher qualities poking through :-) It's a reasonable argument - tho from Story's extension of my original argument I still feel Gir and Galadriel are more of a threat to Town. We can always investigate Elizabeth.
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Gir!
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Post by Gir! on Oct 8, 2010 14:10:27 GMT -5
Gir!, you said that targeting Corinthian was stupid - that's just hindsight because he's hadn't claimed mason at that point? [eyes glow red]Actually, he had claimed Mason, but I had assumed that he wouldn't have an action, since Masons tend to not have an additional action. I'm a Catalyst/Anti-Catalyst, and will either enhance or impede the Night Action of the chosen target. Depending on certain factors, I might be able to choose which action (enhace or impede), or have it randomly assigned to me. I ended up choosing a Mason that Night to try to avoid messing up pro-Town Night actions (in hindsight, I should have targeted Stay Puft, but I might still have been redirected to Batman, depending on how the redirection works). Sorry, not going into details right now, because I'm at work and shouldn't even be here. I'll post again when I get home in about 3 hours, and answer any questions that pop up between now and then.[/eyes glow red]
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