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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:18:14 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 3, 2009 22:18:14 GMT -5
whoops, meant to come back and got sidetracked. my bad. i put you in the wide net of wafflers. and please don't take this the wrong way. of the three in that net (my net, by the way) you are the one that seems to be the most likely to be scum. therefore, i voted for you. just because you are in the middle of this group in my experience from playing with you folks. Can you give one instance where I waffled? good point. two wafflers and one no original thought. woops shouldn't have impuged the others. vote steve
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:19:40 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 3, 2009 22:19:40 GMT -5
OK, I'm all behind the investigator finding Town, but why have him investigate the people who are claimed and taking heat? HE should be investigating people likely to survive for a while. Well ok, I certainly can not argue with that. It is a valid point. Hard to back up a claim if all you have is dead people you have looked at.
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:19:46 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 3, 2009 22:19:46 GMT -5
whoops, meant to come back and got sidetracked. my bad. i put you in the wide net of wafflers. and please don't take this the wrong way. of the three in that net (my net, by the way) you are the one that seems to be the most likely to be scum. therefore, i voted for you. just because you are in the middle of this group in my experience from playing with you folks. however, we now have an additional data point. for some odd reason ped seems to want to have motivation to claim. i will play the part and let him be in the limelight. vote ped. and if he shows up with chia bingo master i will boggle. My point was that I didn't wan tot claim unless I was the vote leader... Anyway, I'm an investigator. Of sorts. you do realize this sounds like shit.
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:23:45 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 3, 2009 22:23:45 GMT -5
Damn Peek you kinda beat me to it, that was my next post.
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:35:40 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 3, 2009 22:35:40 GMT -5
shaggy sorry.
want to make a bet that his "investigative" abilities are historical and not futuristic.
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:45:41 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 3, 2009 22:45:41 GMT -5
No problem...I supose that is what I get for being such a slow typer.
Can I just ask with out sounding stupid what do you mean by historica vs futuristic? I think I must be missing something...
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 22:54:28 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 3, 2009 22:54:28 GMT -5
No problem...I supose that is what I get for being such a slow typer. Can I just ask with out sounding stupid what do you mean by historica vs futuristic? I think I must be missing something... let's see what or if he claims. priori or posteriori only neibuhr knows. how the worm turns, yeeps. fuck, i'll probably be stuck down for encores.
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Gir!
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 23:03:30 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Nov 3, 2009 23:03:30 GMT -5
Well, crap. I might as well just hit my scumdar with a sledgehammer, then. I'm strongly tempted to fall back on my first game strategy and vote exclusively on gut feeling. I'll move my vote off of BillMc at some point, once I know where the hell to move it to. I just have to pipe up here and say...how does Bills help with his alignment here? I mean he could be a SK and someone else the janitor then tells him the role so he then just says what it is to us, and there you have TC. No. Just no. How many games of Mafia have you played and you're getting confused over a basic (for us) role like Serial Killer? An SK isn't going to be able to get info from a janitor role, unless said janitor gives it to the whole game. SKs are Third Party. PFKs. They do not have access to the scum info. If they do, they're not Serial Killers. Care to say what sort of investigator, pede?
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 23:03:44 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 3, 2009 23:03:44 GMT -5
My point was that I didn't wan tot claim unless I was the vote leader... Anyway, I'm an investigator. Of sorts. you do realize this sounds like shit. Can you give one instance where I waffled? good point. two wafflers and one no original thought. woops shouldn't have impuged the others. vote steveWell, given your blatant fishing attempt, I'm glad I didn't reveal more than I did.
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Trepa Mayfield
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Day 1
Nov 3, 2009 23:04:37 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 3, 2009 23:04:37 GMT -5
Care to say what sort of investigator, pede? Not unless I have to.
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 1:26:59 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Nov 4, 2009 1:26:59 GMT -5
Ok bear with me here, I've got my tin-foil hat on, and something is bothering me. Chucara claims he can get someone to vote for themselves. But he has to do it in game by first voting for himself then voting for the one he wants to have vote for themselves. First off: Is that a correct interpretation of your power Chuc? I don't think so. I believe he said that he could set someone else's vote by PM at the same time as he himself placed a vote. I'm not sure where voting himself first comes into the picture, if at all. Maybe that was just his replacement for the more typical "unvote"? (Since we can't do that this game.) Steve already corrected you, but I'm curious: where did you get the PM deal from? One the one hand, you almost sound like you know something we don't. On the other, it's like you didn't read Chucara's post at all, seeing as how you didn't understand why he voted himself first. Also: Steve = sinjin = "she", right? If so, would it be alright if I used "sinjin" instead of "Steve" from now on? The latter feels weird. Sidenote: The first time I was introduced to certain posters was while reading the Arkham Asylum game, so I've permanently associated "sinjin" with the Killer Croc avatar, and "storyteller" with Poison Ivy. So, in short, there might be some identity confusion on my part I probably won't be around tomorrow before Day end, so I'll come back tonight with a vote. Give me time to reread a bit.
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 1:44:10 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 1:44:10 GMT -5
Sinjin: I have no idea where you get your "facts", but your speculations are completely off.
I'll just repeat my power to aviod confusion. I can, once a day, switch a vote. In order to be able to use this ability, I send a PM to the mods with who I want to switch. In this case something in the lines of (I can't quote) "I want BillMc to vote for himself instead of me". But for some reason that is not apparent to me, I must include a post number for when I switched. This might just be for counting, but I have no idea. Therefore, I had to vote to activate my power. I voted myself and back again to be able to include the number.
I'm really having trouble believing the flak I'm getting for .. voting for Ed early on? nphase, sinjin and now Ed all seem bent on twisting my words (and now even stuff I didn't say). I kinda hope you are scum, otherwise you're really just playing poorly.
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 1:44:54 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 1:44:54 GMT -5
(That's not to say I have been playing optimally, but seriously, if you want me dead, at least fine a reason that exists)
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 3:15:03 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Nov 4, 2009 3:15:03 GMT -5
Sinjin: I have no idea where you get your "facts", but your speculations are completely off. I'll just repeat my power to aviod confusion. I can, once a day, switch a vote. In order to be able to use this ability, I send a PM to the mods with who I want to switch. In this case something in the lines of (I can't quote) "I want BillMc to vote for himself instead of me". But for some reason that is not apparent to me, I must include a post number for when I switched. This might just be for counting, but I have no idea. Therefore, I had to vote to activate my power. I voted myself and back again to be able to include the number. (emphasis added) For the record, this is the first time you explained the underlined portions. You can hardly blame sinjin or anyone else for thinking incorrectly about how exactly your power worked. So now nphase's post looks more interesting, for seeming to know about a PM without it having been stated before. PIS, or a good guess? The argument between nphase and Chucara kinda suggests they're not both scum, except that's already a gambit scum have used in other games (I saw it in Alpha Centauri, and references to Ed and meeko in another game have been made several times Today already). If they're both scum, then I'll put my vote on the one that has claimed vote-switching powers. Vote Chucara
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:26:43 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 6:26:43 GMT -5
For the record, this is the first time you explained the underlined portions. You can hardly blame sinjin or anyone else for thinking incorrectly about how exactly your power worked. Sinjin made up how it worked herself and then used that to make me look scummy. Please explain why you think that either me or nphase are scum - and then why you opt to vote for someone with a claimed and proved power, which is very likely to be town? And could someone please explain why everyone seems to think that I am scum? Is it still my vote for Ed that's bothering you? People really seem overly aggressive with wanting me dead.
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:32:54 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 6:32:54 GMT -5
I'll just repeat my power to aviod confusion. I can, once a day, switch a vote. In order to be able to use this ability, I send a PM to the mods with who I want to switch. In this case something in the lines of (I can't quote) "I want BillMc to vote for himself instead of me". But for some reason that is not apparent to me, I must include a post number for when I switched. This might just be for counting, but I have no idea. Therefore, I had to vote to activate my power. I voted myself and back again to be able to include the number. To get it crystal clear: You vote for player A in post X. Player B's vote is on player C. You send PM with player B and post X. Player B's vote in now locked on player A. Your vote is now on Player C, but you can move your vote. The moderators will only post vote counts every 24h, not at request. The moderator will not post who voted who. I think this means we won't get a vote count before Dusk anymore. The effect of this procedure is that your vote switch can go undetected until player B noticed his vote is locked. I don't see a reason for a town role to hide a vote switch, so it is similar to a Miller as an anti-town role. But more likely it means the ability to hide it, especially if you switched just before Dusk. Vote: Chucara If true, big points to Sister Coyote for digging this up.
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:34:33 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 6:34:33 GMT -5
NETA: The effect of this procedure is that your vote switch can go undetected until the next vote count the numbers don't add up and/or player B finds out his vote is locked.
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:37:42 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 6:37:42 GMT -5
NETA2: It was sinjin, not sister coyote who brought it first up.
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:43:22 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 6:43:22 GMT -5
Unofficial Vote Count:
Chucara (5): Redskeezix, Sinjin, nphase, Natlaw, Dirx BillMc (5): Pedescribe, BillMc (forced), Kat! pedescribe (3): Pleonast, Special Ed, Sister Coyote nphase (5): Storyteller, Chucara, shaggy Natlaw (1): Idle Thoughts sinjin (1): peekercpa Guy Incognito (1): Guy Incognito
No vote (3): hockeyguy, MHaye, Boozahol Squid PI
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:56:30 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 6:56:30 GMT -5
What can i say Ed, I actually like the idea that an investigator's first job is to confirm town, and then 2nd to find scum. Already responded to, but my two cents: in my opinion investigators should try to maximize the useful information - that means having information on players alive when they claim and information is worth more on unknown players (not claimed, lurking or otherwise not standing out, etc). You know, I'm opposed to the idea of mass claims in general, but seriously, natlaw, WTF would be the point of a mass name claim in a game with no particular canon? If you hadn't snipped the following lines you had an answer - someone good might have a use for it. But I agree the name is otherwise not useful, but BillMc leaving it out made me notice it to raise the question. Upsides: possible duplicate, but might not be a lie even Downside: someone bad is looking for a named someone (might be an upside if it is a good person, but out weighted by the possible bad I think). So a bad idea I think on a quick reflection. Why would a scum me want to make it harder for people to vote for who they thought was most suspicious? That was was not the motivation I gave: a scum might want to avoid pushing a bandwagon (the 'third vote' tell, although yours would have been fourth) and that you wanted to have another wagon ready since you were runner up. You question I listed in a early post as a possible pro-town motivation (forcing others to make a choice instead of jumping on a wagon).
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 6:59:45 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 6:59:45 GMT -5
[quote author=natlaw board=game17 thread=1171 post=56900 time=1257334374To get it crystal clear: You vote for player A in post X. Player B's vote is on player C. You send PM with player B and post X. Player B's vote in now locked on player A. Your vote is now on Player C, but you can move your vote.
The moderators will only post vote counts every 24h, not at request. The moderator will not post who voted who. I think this means we won't get a vote count before Dusk anymore.
The effect of this procedure is that your vote switch can go undetected until player B noticed his vote is locked.
I don't see a reason for a town role to hide a vote switch, so it is similar to a Miller as an anti-town role. But more likely it means the ability to hide it, especially if you switched just before Dusk.
Vote: Chucara [/color]
If true, big points to Sister Coyote for digging this up.[/quote]
Yeah well.. No points for any of you. I've almost had it with this game. Because of some arbitrary reason I've been declared scummy. Nothing I can do will seemingly shake that.
How would you have a town politican work then? Loudly declare "Chucara has switched roles on BillMc"? Name me one game where a vote switcher was public?
Right now I'm pondering whether or not to throw BillMc under the bus as I still think he's scum. But I don't want to lynch a claimed power role. I'll leave my vote where it is, and ask the townspeople remaining to take a long look at the reasoning behind the 5 votes on me. I find it scary that you all appear to have a reason each, and none of you can really explain it. I suppose "because I think your role must be scum" is the best one out there, sadly. Again, think about how seriously overpowered my role would be for scum in a 20 people game. Weigh that against "it must be scum becuase the role is secret".
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 7:15:47 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 7:15:47 GMT -5
To get it crystal clear: You vote for player A in post X. Player B's vote is on player C. You send PM with player B and post X. Player B's vote in now locked on player A. Your vote is now on Player C, but you can move your vote. Just to add to the Chucara actions confused a clear picture of how his power worked: -His first questions makes it clear that after his 'switch vote' post, his vote was on BillMc. The self vote just muddies the water here. -If the PM number must be to a post containing a vote switch, then is self vote still doesn't make sense. You switch your vote by voting someone else. There could be a requirement that his vote must match the vote he wants to switch, but that seems needlessly complex since a normal vote switch just requires voting for someone else. -His vote change before the next vote count could be to hide the fact his vote was switched with Bill's (but the power could also simply be that he only forced Bill's vote to be the same as his vote). Anyway, my vote stays on Chucara because opaque vote shenanigans doesn't sit well with me at all. On preview: by making it a semi-public, the power is more dangerous for a scum to use it. Normally a (town) politician either has the moderator tell the target that he most vote for someone. Or they could just post an updated vote count showing the switch.
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Natlaw
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 7:23:36 GMT -5
Post by Natlaw on Nov 4, 2009 7:23:36 GMT -5
Another reason for me to now go with Chucara instead of pedescribe is that I think an investigator is worth more than a politician and has results which can be judged better (although I didn't like his half-claim too much). Not much time for nphase (as another runner up) to claim so rather not vote for him. And because I got the totals wrong: Unofficial Vote Count: Chucara (5): Redskeezix, Sinjin, nphase, Natlaw, Dirx BillMc (3): Pedescribe, BillMc (forced), Kat! pedescribe (3): Pleonast, Special Ed, Sister Coyote nphase (3): Storyteller, Chucara, shaggy Natlaw (1): Idle Thoughts sinjin (1): peekercpa Guy Incognito (1): Guy Incognito No vote (3): hockeyguy, MHaye, Boozahol Squid PI (as an aside, Day One might be boring sometimes, but the voting at the end typically isn't. But I really need to go back to work now )
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 7:42:52 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Nov 4, 2009 7:42:52 GMT -5
Well, crap. I might as well just hit my scumdar with a sledgehammer, then. I'm strongly tempted to fall back on my first game strategy and vote exclusively on gut feeling. I'll move my vote off of BillMc at some point, once I know where the hell to move it to. I just have to pipe up here and say...how does Bills help with his alignment here? I mean he could be a SK and someone else the janitor then tells him the role so he then just says what it is to us, and there you have TC. No. Just no. How many games of Mafia have you played and you're getting confused over a basic (for us) role like Serial Killer? An SK isn't going to be able to get info from a janitor role, unless said janitor gives it to the whole game. SKs are Third Party. PFKs. They do not have access to the scum info. If they do, they're not Serial Killers. Care to say what sort of investigator, pede? Ok sorry not a SK but I just am playing devils advocate here and saying for all we know he could be a scum tough guy/killer and that is how he gets the investigations, if hypothetically there is a janitor, and that person could give him the results. Not saying I believe it at this point, to switch a vote back but just saying it is somthing I am keeping in the back of my mind.
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 7:58:50 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 7:58:50 GMT -5
Just to add to the Chucara actions confused a clear picture of how his power worked: -His first questions makes it clear that after his 'switch vote' post, his vote was on BillMc. The self vote just muddies the water here. -If the PM number must be to a post containing a vote switch, then is self vote still doesn't make sense. You switch your vote by voting someone else. There could be a requirement that his vote must match the vote he wants to switch, but that seems needlessly complex since a normal vote switch just requires voting for someone else. -His vote change before the next vote count could be to hide the fact his vote was switched with Bill's (but the power could also simply be that he only forced Bill's vote to be the same as his vote). Anyway, my vote stays on Chucara because opaque vote shenanigans doesn't sit well with me at all. On preview: by making it a semi-public, the power is more dangerous for a scum to use it. Normally a (town) politician either has the moderator tell the target that he most vote for someone. Or they could just post an updated vote count showing the switch. Again, the reason all of this seems odd to you is because everyone has been busy filling in the blanks. I've never refused to tell a single fact about my role, and will gladly explain it. Sorry if the self-vote confused you, but why did you wait until 8 hours before deadline to make that your reason for voting for me? *sigh* I think voting for a claimed power role unless you are pretty sure (which you are not) isn't the best move, but I appear to be outnumbered.
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 8:19:51 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 4, 2009 8:19:51 GMT -5
I am still confused as to how your power works Chucara. As I understand it now you have to vote for the person whose vote you want to control. Then send a PM to the mod with the post number containing the vote telling him who you want that person to vote for. You are then able to vote for someone else, but you cannot change the switched vote for the rest of the day. Is this correct?
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 8:31:57 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 4, 2009 8:31:57 GMT -5
There is one upside to the ridiculous debacle that is about to occur, and that is the fact that the five current voters for Chucara will make an excellent Scum-hunting starting point.
Seriously, I want to be on record as saying that this is a bad lynch. Unfortunately, it looks inevitable. We should not lynch BillMc or pedescribe, because if they're telling the truth they are more valuable than Chucara from a power standpoint. I'd like to lynch nphase, but that looks increasingly unlikely to happen, and there are no other viable candidates. I will nonetheless keep my vote where it is in the hopes that things might change.
--------------
Meanwhile, I've been thinking about the votes at Night thing. I think it would behoove us to have no active votes at Night, ever. The only way this could be accomplished is for us to do something that no Town has successfully executed: establish an early deadline. Whoever is the vote leader at this time would be designated the lynch target for the Day. We would all then switch our votes to the lynch target, who would die, leaving the vote record clear for the Night.
Given the short time frame involved, t is probably impossible to institute this plan toDay, but perhaps we can discuss it toMorrow, when we may have a better idea what function is served by Night votes.
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 8:32:01 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 4, 2009 8:32:01 GMT -5
I am still confused as to how your power works Chucara. As I understand it now you have to vote for the person whose vote you want to control. Then send a PM to the mod with the post number containing the vote telling him who you want that person to vote for. You are then able to vote for someone else, but you cannot change the switched vote for the rest of the day. Is this correct? Absolutely not. If this is the reason you're voting for me, please stop. I'll try to explain again (damn you for not letting me quote ): To switch votes, I send a PM to the mod. This PM must contain: 1. Who I want to switch. (The Target) 2. Who I want The Target to vote for. 3. A post number of a post where I'm voting. It doesn't matter at all who I vote for. I'm guessing it's just a formality that has to do with counting / figuring out when the vote change is in effect. Actually, after rereading my PM, there is some uncertainty to what is meant. The PM refers to "a post where I'm voting", but I'm not sure whether the "voting" part is a real vote, or the switched vote. I'll try to get this information for you before I'm lynched (looks pretty likely now)
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 8:49:43 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 4, 2009 8:49:43 GMT -5
The above is not why I'm voting for you. You are confusing the hell out of me. I originally voted for you, not for your early vote for Ed, but for the multiple changing reasons for that vote. Confusion about how your claimed power works has led me to leave my vote on you. I'm sorry I can't read your mind, but it now seems you are still confused about how your role works.
I have to go to work. I'll try to check back in and see if anything else comes up.
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Day 1
Nov 4, 2009 8:54:16 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 4, 2009 8:54:16 GMT -5
Trying to get a fourth claim today, storyteller? (Not saying I have anything interesting to claim, but if you do convince people to change their votes from Chucara, it could wind up with me in the lead.)
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