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Post by Drain Bead on Jan 22, 2010 13:26:55 GMT -5
I just spent 5 minutes with my head exploded because I read that claim as saying that peeker's alignment hadn't changed as of the end of Day Two. I went back and checked the Dawn, checked my PM of peeker's powers...scratched my head a bit trying to reconcile it all, and then when I was truncating the post to quote it, I saw the "had."
I think I need a nap.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 14:04:59 GMT -5
Why not? It's information, which we have had a dearth of, and it gives us something to talk about.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 14:09:14 GMT -5
Naw, if I was going to wound you I wouldn't have bothered voting. If you're wounded, you're still up and walking around.
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Post by Renata on Jan 22, 2010 14:43:01 GMT -5
I agree with everything Natlaw says about MHaye. I understand about lack of time, as it's about eating me alive, but lack of time doesn't explain a lack of anything even remotely resembling scum-hunting since around Christmas. And even if his denial does make it unlikely that MHaye is the Green Goblin (and according to SisC's claim not an alignment-changing GG in any case), I still am strongly pinged by the post of his that cast doubt on luv's claim. The count stood at six votes for luv at that point with his fate hanging in the balance: it is not an exaggeration to say that MHaye's post is what ultimately did him in, even though MHaye himself never changed his vote off of peeker. Both Natlaw and I have pointed out in various contexts why luv's death would be in Scum's interests. See Hal Briston as vote #6 for evidence. The comments about SHIELD still strike me as overplaying something, too. I'm just not comfortable with his play this game. vote: MHaye[/color] On Inner Stickler: SisC, you're mischaracterizing his comments about the "lurkers" -- he never said he expected to find all of the remaining scum in that group, so having a previous vote on you is not inconsistent. On the other hand: <font style="font-size: 12px;"> As for me, I'm going to Vote: Sister Coyote She's been remarkable restrained in her posting and has yet to my recollection made a real case on anyone. I think she suffers from trying to pin scummyness on townies. This is a remarkable accusation coming from someone whose rationales for his own votes total about five lines in four days. I'm remaining agnostic about the benefits of mass claiming. As one of the unfortunate Scum in the game IS mentioned, I can feel exactly where he's coming from, and I think he's being basically honest about his thoughts on that situation. If he is scum, I'd expect they do have unusually good false claims available to them, sufficient to overcome most of the serious drawbacks he points out. Much as I dislike the idea.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 14:46:49 GMT -5
Also, I seem to recall making a case -- not a great case, admittedly, but a case -- on both luv and on someone else. I don't know. IS's logic just really smells to me, and the OMGUS aside...
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Post by Renata on Jan 22, 2010 14:50:32 GMT -5
Why not? It's information, which we have had a dearth of, and it gives us something to talk about. That's just it, though, it's practically nothing in the way of information. Did anyone other than peeker really think Tom's alignment was going to change? Does the thing about peeker tell us anything we don't know now anyway? And why not mention it yesterday, when it WAS information, even if it might not have ultimately changed the result? All that leaves is MHaye, and even I didn't really think he was the Green Goblin anymore, so what does that leave: MHaye isn't, at this moment, a recruited former-townie? If he's a flexible third party, he hasn't changed alignment yet? How does this help us?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 15:28:02 GMT -5
Hey, I never said it was helpful information, just that it was information. All we know about MHaye's alignment is that however he started the game -- he claims pro-Registration but less than willingly -- he's still that same alignment.
And we don't know that Tom's alignment hasn't changed, either, just that no one made a bid for him Day One. Haven't been back over the ground to re-trace and see if anything's shifted there.
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Post by Drain Bead on Jan 22, 2010 16:02:14 GMT -5
Well, seeing as Tom did say he was immune to recruitment (a fact it's very easy to forget, except for the fact that I forgot it a page ago and was reminded), I'm guessing his alignment hasn't changed at all during this game.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 18:13:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I knew tom had claimed immunity from recruitment. Just saying I can neither confirm nor deny anything about him past Day One, is all.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Jan 22, 2010 18:25:17 GMT -5
This is a remarkable accusation coming from someone whose rationales for his own votes total about five lines in four days. That's how I vote. You will never find a game where I post more than a few lines in defense of a vote, town or scum. The same is not true of SisC in my opinion and I find the change troubling.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 22, 2010 18:48:54 GMT -5
Oh, horseshit. I've thrown down a vote on absolutely nothing and said so. And I'd do it again. I've thrown down well-thought-out votes, and I'd do that again. And I've thrown down votes -- much like my vote on you -- that have less to do with playstyle or anything other than something in my gut telling me to.
And, just for the record and not that I should give this particular tell away, but I make better cases on Town when I'm Scum. I find it much easier to use the information being scum gives me to shape my inferences than to explain just how and why I'm reacting to the facts on the table when I'm Town. cf my case against "Tonya Harding" in Blockey's Hallowe'en mini. That was a piece of cake.
The problem is that when I'm town, as in this game, I don't know what I'm looking for.
So nyah.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Jan 24, 2010 12:52:45 GMT -5
So luv had tap on the Green Goblin, Kat! a general tap on everyone and now Sister Coyote is able to check alignment switches after the fact. Either Story wanted to make damn sure recruitment could be countered or perhaps there are more alignment changes possible then we know about. I've no idea why you claimed and your investigations are weird (but then again you did claim Gloom as town when I was): Tom Scud was declared town, not recruitable and yet you investigate him. You understandably investigate peeker, it matches up with his claim and then you sit on the result. I can see why though with his behaviour. You investigate MHaye to check on him being the Goblin, he hasn't changed alignment but now you claim when he has a vote? Neither of the last two actually confirm much about actual alignment so I don't see much information gained (especially with peeker already lynched). MHaye has been pushing for the Goblin to claim a couple of times now but now there is actually a reason to do so. You can confirm the Green Goblin as luvbwfc knew he was Town Day One so if he changed alignment he's no longer town. Not sure why you didn't propose that tactic yourself? Unless you're scum and no that concerned with confirming town? Anyway let's put you to the test. Do you need me to do something special? Signed, Norman OsbornRegistered as the 'Green Goblin'
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Jan 24, 2010 13:07:57 GMT -5
Mister Osborne! Could you answer some questions for the press?
I'm a busy man but since we're having some slow days so why not By the way, it is Osborn without an 'e' at the end; I forget that myself sometimes.
Is is true you could choose on which side to fight? Did you join with Captain America?!
Someday you'll learn that free choice is an illusion. I did not want to be on this island but the nanites left me no choice. I didn't want to be involved in this fight but was forced to fight those that didn't want to register. When Bishop died I had no option to join the anti-registration forces. Sure, I could have tried and fend for my own but what kind of a choice was that? Alone against seventeen super heroes hell bent on lynching and killing each other? I made the only viable 'choice' - register and ride out this mess. I might sometimes suffer from temporary insanity, but I'm not stupid.
Register? I didn't hear anything about that anywhere!!
As I said I'm not stupid, I've got some toys that can be used to clean up this chaos. Since I had no information on Bishop at all (except that someone controlled me through these freaking nanites) I saw no point in compromising my own safety. He might have been scum or else would have been a prime target for scum and only cast doubt over my alignment on death. I registered by turning in my costume at the authorities myself but there was no need for a press conference.
But what about you condition? Are you suffering from your uh... illness now? Did you kill Captain America? Stop that hawk like guy from doing whatever he does?
I've got some medical dermal patches that keep me quite A-OK, thank you. I was not involved in any of the actions you mention.
So why go public now? Did any of your inventions work so far? Do you have any cool toys left? What about the accusations you are an 'insane delusional psychotic with an armored surfboard'?
There is now an opportunity to be confirmed (when/if Sister Coyote is) as town. My achievements so far haven't turned up anything useful as far as I can tell. Yes I got some toys left, but I don't see the benefit in disclosing more at this time. I've got those dermal patches and that phrase is typical hyperbole from your kind. This interview is over.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Jan 24, 2010 13:22:27 GMT -5
There is a time and a place for lurk votes. When there is a strategic reason: to remove the possibility of a missing possible counterclaim or when reducing an unconfirmed or uninvestigated pool if a game progresses to that point. Otherwise, to me it looks like trying to motivate others into voting out of ennui, which can easily lead to mislynches. If you can't come up with a more compelling reason to vote except them being quiet, then you don't think they are scummy. Then why vote for them? As nphase said (thanks for the snuggle), my vote is not a general lurker vote but specifically on someone who is lurking in the sense of reading along, posting a bit but contributing not much to finding scum. Latest example: a dissertation on the proper way to do post counts: Back when we first started playing here (as a group) there were some discussions about what was called the Pseudo-Random Hypothesis (PRH). It's probably in Malacandra's game. The PRH is that the Mafia group will tend to adopt a range of posting styles; that is, some will be prolific, some will be relatively quiet and so on. However, the actual distribution will not be random. Left to themselves, the Mafia will tend to distribute themselves roughly evenly among the range of styles, so no two Mafiates appear to have the same playstyle. An even distribution isn't random, but to people who don't think about it, it appears to be. All that is my way of saying that there might well be a Mafiate in the high-posting group still. Also, perhaps you should have checked Hal's postcount - since he's a known Mafiate, and my impression is that his postcount was low. He might have been the lurking Mafiate. So Hal was the low post count scum and study show they are normally spread out so there isn't any other low posting scum, QED. My vote is staying on MHaye to which I'll now add that I found his push for me to claim fishy. I could have confirmed the nanites partly worked in our case but nothing about luv's alignment. I didn't know or guess someone like SisterCoyote would be able to confirm me later. And still that confirm would have required luv to die first which made him a prime scum target and me a distraction for town.
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Merestil Haye
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 24, 2010 16:32:36 GMT -5
atlaw.
I suggested the GG consider claiming while luvbwfc was still alive, because there was an element of confirmability for the two of you. I didn't know what info you would have had on your controller, although I suspected none.
Once luvbwfc died, there was no point in a GG claim, because it couldn't be verified, so I never mentioned it again.
As for hunting ARRs, I will admit that I haven't done very well. I was suspicious of luvbwfc Day 1; the only reason I did not switch my vote was because I wanted time for the two of you to consider my request for a claim without danger of a hammer. In retrospect, I should have unvoted Peeker when I got suspicious of luvbwfc; it may be that Peeker was readier to drop the hammer Day 1 because he had five votes.
Day 2 I think I would have voted Peeker again, but my review of Day 1 weakened my suspicion to the point where I could not sustain a vote. I was a bit distracted for the last week or so, since my fiancee was visiting; I have other priorities when she's here and I have less computer time. A sort of double-whammy. So I didn't develop a new suspicion.
On Day 3, the only reason I didn't vote for Peeker early was that Total Lost had subbed in. I probably would have done so the following day (I found the hammer on Texcat really shady.)
Now? I have no feelings. I need to reread and reassimilate the claims and assertions. More tomorrow, I expect.
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Post by Hawkmod on Jan 25, 2010 0:23:55 GMT -5
Why not? It's information, which we have had a dearth of, and it gives us something to talk about. Can you explain your rationale for your choices? Why choose Tom Scud when he claimed he couldn't be recruited. He would have been my last choice on Day 1. Why choose Peeker and then not reveal that info letting him be lynched?
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Post by tomscud on Jan 25, 2010 18:26:29 GMT -5
Also, I was blocked last night. Most likely it means the scum wants me to stop doing whatever it is that I do, but it could be a townie who doesn't trust me as well. Meant to ask this a while ago: What was the color for the block? Did your power just not work, or were you knocked out/suddenly developed a phobia/a little tiny pumpkin was thrown in through the window of your room and hissed out a bunch of gas, and then you woke up and it was morning? Or what?
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Post by tomscud on Jan 25, 2010 18:33:19 GMT -5
BTW, I believe Natlaw's claim and think SisC should investigate him today.
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 25, 2010 19:07:47 GMT -5
Okay. A couple of things.
First, before Norm outed himself -- and from one mouthy madman to another, hey, buddy, how you doin? -- I had already sent a request to the Mod for my Day action, since I wasn't sure how much time we would have. I had previously asked if I could change my action if I did so before the end of the Day, and did not receive an answer. So, although I have sent a revised action to Storyteller I cannot guarantee that I will get a result on Natlaw rather than my first target for investigation.
I had nothing better to go on on Day One, and I figured that if Recruitment were in any way standard that Tom would be a logical target. Frankly, I assumed nothing was going ot come of that investigation unless the switch in allegiance was likewise a Day action.
Day Two I investigated peek because of his claim...however, I had surgery Friday and never got back to prevent the hammer on him. Also -- keep in mind that all I knew was that the part of his story where his alignment changed was true. I cannot confirm in what direction someone's alignment has changed. That said, I considered claiming, but given the last three times I've claimed it's ended up bad for Town, and given peeker's weird hammering behavior, I wasn't convinced peek had swapped to Town. If I'd had the opportunity to come back, I was planning to make a case on you, Hawk.
Then I spent two days in ICU with a shunt in my spine post-surgery, and I have no idea what really happened.
YesterDay I picked MHaye largely on a "well, why the hell not;" I was not surprised by the result I got.
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Post by Renata on Jan 25, 2010 20:09:50 GMT -5
From almost anyone else but Natlaw I'd believe his claim without question (because what's the obvious gain in claiming could-have-chosen-not-town, anyway, if you're not that) -- however, this is the guy who claimed Wolf in Conspiracy 3 for strategic purposes, so "horses over zebras" doesn't really apply here. It's possible that he and SisC are both scum and using this situation to "confirm" Natlaw and give SisC a spot of town cred for telling the truth about his alignment not having changed; of course, this only makes sense if Scum have reason to believe the Green Goblin is not currently town. (A town GG would presumably counterclaim.)
Anyway, there's a reason I said all that beyond the suspicion.
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Post by Merestil Haye on Jan 25, 2010 20:10:20 GMT -5
A reread of Hal's posts, now we know he was an ARR – indeed, he was the ARR – throws up only one interesting action. In D01.176, Hal places a vote for Precambrian Mollusc. It's interesting in retrospect because it could be a bit of ARR-on-ARR action aimed at making us think that Hal and PCM are on different sides. The justification for the vote was that PCM had made a comment asking if the Town might recruit an ARR, and Hal answered no, then only voted after PCM's response. In retrospect that feels like Hal spotting the opportunity then clearing the lines on the ARR board before going through with it. There's still a couple of other possibilities – that Hal didn't see the possibility for a justified vote on a Townie until after the second post or (as he claimed) he wanted to be sure his vote was on firm ground, since he might get called in it later. They say nothing about PCM's alignment one way or the other. However, I recall (because I played in the game) that PCM has previous experience with recruitment. Indeed, PCM was the recruiter once upon a time. In Pedescribe's Terminator game, PCM was a Jester-Recruiter with a time limit. So he's had a little experience with recruitment. To my mind, that makes Hal's accusation more plausible than it might otherwise have been. A review of PCM's posts throws up another interesting fact. He never once responded to Hal's vote. He completely ignored it. No response, nothing. I know when I'm Town aligned, receiving a vote is always something to think about, but I very rarely let it pass without replying. (I got lynched when I tried ignoring a vote thrown my way.) Why does PCM not even mention the vote? Because, deep down, he knows that it's from a fellow ARR and isn't worried about it? I think that PCM might indeed be an ARR. Vote: PreCambrianMollusc
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Post by storyteller0910 on Jan 25, 2010 20:11:08 GMT -5
Did your power just not work, or were you knocked out/suddenly developed a phobia/a little tiny pumpkin was thrown in through the window of your room and hissed out a bunch of gas Subtle.
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Post by Renata on Jan 25, 2010 20:18:45 GMT -5
Actually there's no point in me awkwardly trying to be subtle. I was sent something last night. If Natlaw is the Green Goblin (he most likely is), and the GG is the game's only inventor, then he knows what I was sent.
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Post by Renata on Jan 25, 2010 20:19:49 GMT -5
Weird crosspost there. Subtle, subtle, subtle.
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Post by tomscud on Jan 25, 2010 21:13:45 GMT -5
I'll add that I believe Natlaw is the Goblin not only for logical reasons, but because he dropped a bunch of unmistakeable breadcrumbs in his message that were meant for me and involved things only the Green Goblin could have known (or I guess his scum teammate if he was scum, but that doesn't really jibe with luvbwfc's role pm.
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Post by tomscud on Jan 25, 2010 21:14:19 GMT -5
NETA )
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Post by Hawkmod on Jan 25, 2010 21:38:29 GMT -5
Meant to ask this a while ago: What was the color for the block? Did your power just not work, or were you knocked out/suddenly developed a phobia/a little tiny pumpkin was thrown in through the window of your room and hissed out a bunch of gas, and then you woke up and it was morning? Or what? "However, you found yourself oddly disoriented and unable to concentrate. Given your confused state, you thought it safest and best to retire early to your room and rest."
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Post by Sister Coyote on Jan 25, 2010 23:42:00 GMT -5
So suBtle you can hear the "B"
I will be investigating Natlaw. Won't find out anything until we either lynch someone (preferably not me or him until we get this sorted out of course), or Day ends and someone dies by fiat.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Jan 26, 2010 14:21:02 GMT -5
Once luvbwfc died, there was no point in a GG claim, because it couldn't be verified, so I never mentioned it again. I was referring to this quote Day Two, although it is not a pushy as I remembered. It does have a feel of an implied 'GG didn't claim, probably switched, lynch him!', but I might have been oversensitive to that as the GG myself . I was a bit concerned that his [peeker's] action could have closed off some possible options, but realistically the only one he did shut off was the possibility of a vote switch. GG could still have claimed at any time up until Storyteller closed the curtains on the Day. I wish he had done so, as that would mean we had someone else we could be sure were Town on Day 1. The lack of such a claim makes me wonder whether the Goblin planned on switching as soon as he saw luvbwfc's claim.
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Natlaw
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Post by Natlaw on Jan 26, 2010 14:52:28 GMT -5
and from one mouthy madman to another, hey, buddy, how you doin? Wait, I don't think we were introduced. Exactly who are you? Or do you have reasons to not register publicly? Extra! Extra! Another Super Villain registers![/i] REAL NAME: Norman Osborn YOU LOOK LIKE THIS: www.spidervillain.com/Villains/GreenGoblinII/GreenGoblinIIASM136.gifALIGNMENT: Town GENERIC: Inventor WIN CONDITION: All Anti-Registration forces have been neutralized ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ BACKGROUND:While you have many life goals you've yet to achieve, you've pretty much got the "evil genius" thing down pat. You're pretty much matched by no one short of Tony Stark when it comes to designing and building things that go "Boom," "Bang," or "Zap," and your public arsenal has nicely enhanced your investment portfolio as your private arsenal has enhanced your ability to terrify and kill innocent people. Your early career was marked by a number of impressive if small-scale victories - sowing havoc, slaughtering underworld heavyweights and assuming command of their operations, killing Spider-Man's girlfriend. And then there was the time you, technically speaking, died. In recent years, however, you've become powerful on a much grander scale; your daytime identity of Norman Osborn has recently been appointed head of the Thunderbolts, a group of "reformed" supervillains tasked with the apprehension and/or elimination of anti-Registration "heroes." You were sent to this island putatively to keep an eye on matters and ensure that Captain America's anti-Reg forces don't interrupt the registration process. Just before communications were severed, however, you became aware of a disquieting fact: you are no longer entirely your own master. You have access to only a small amount of your impressive technological supply, but with the tools you have you have been able to detect in your own central nervous system thousands of microscopic devices ("nanites," the S.H.I.E.L.D. techs called them, when they were implanting them into the more recalcitrant Thunderbolts), that allow your actions to be controlled by a remote user. Somewhere on this island is someone who is controlling your actions. At first, you suspected S.H.I.E.L.D., but the methods used by Captain America to isolate Ryker's Island from the rest of the world would preclude their intervention. So it must be one of the rest of the people here. You don't know who it is; you don't even know if they're on your side. But you know that whoever it is holds your leash. Your goal is simple: defeat the anti-Registration forces as quickly and decisively as possible, get back to the mainland, and use your own tech to eliminate this unwanted hold. To that end, you have some tools secreted away around the island, which you may use at Night. Unfortunately, your actions will be directed by your mysterious controller; should that person ever die, of course, you will be free to work as you see fit. ABILITIES/POWERS:1. Once per Night, you may select a tool from your arsenal that you will use that Night. Your target, however, will be selected by another player. Should that player ever die, you will be permitted to choose your own target. Your inventions, and their effects, are as follows: [redacted] [/quote] Typically trash news paper write up - bad and completely outdated photo of something I'm no longer today. Dwelling on actions I'm not really liable for due to medical reasons. But enough of that, the more useful information: If MHaye is a 'recalcitrant Thunderbolt' but his nanites don't work, what's his motivation to help the pro-registration faction? On the other hand, 'At first, you suspected S.H.I.E.L.D., but the methods used by Captain America to isolate Ryker's Island from the rest of the world would preclude their intervention.' seems to support his claim while my nanites (partially) worked, the ones he got don't.
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