Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
Posts: 2,029
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Post by Total Ullz on Mar 4, 2012 16:07:23 GMT -5
One of you or special ed are scum. I don't follow this. Where is the connection between the two of them? I know some players like to think in pairs. But this one I have a problem seeing. Could you explain it to me a bit more?
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 16:12:07 GMT -5
askthepizzaguy, believe it or not, but peeker is actually being a lot more clear and communicative in this game than his usual. (apologies if this posts twice; I got an Error Bear when I tried before) That's been a scum tell in the past. And, honestly, I am a little leery with him defending me at this point.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 4, 2012 16:17:33 GMT -5
askthepizzaguy, believe it or not, but peeker is actually being a lot more clear and communicative in this game than his usual. (apologies if this posts twice; I got an Error Bear when I tried before) That's been a scum tell in the past. And, honestly, I am a little leery with him defending me at this point. and i kind of figured that someone would circle around to this but fuck it. you seem to be getting heat for the same sort of shit that i typically get heat for. i am not defending you. i am condeming those that would condemn others because of their play style and/or approach. you just happen to be getting flack for behavior that i remain unconvinced makes you not town.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 16:23:13 GMT -5
That's been a scum tell in the past. And, honestly, I am a little leery with him defending me at this point. and i kind of figured that someone would circle around to this but fuck it. you seem to be getting heat for the same sort of shit that i typically get heat for. i am not defending you. i am condeming those that would condemn others because of their play style and/or approach. you just happen to be getting flack for behavior that i remain unconvinced makes you not town. Yes, I understand. And of course, I agree with you that there's no Scum tell in what I've done. What do you think of PizzaGuy's post?
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 4, 2012 16:25:58 GMT -5
After saying this: sure he's annoying - i've been saying that for years. and sure he gets in folks grill. i remain unconvinced that either of those traits equates to scum or not town.peeker, you have taken a bold stand on special ed, in that you've taken no stand. matter of fact i consider that using that as any component for voting for someone is about scummy as hell. it's too fucking easy and lazy.But you find votes for ed to be scummy. You'd think that voting for someone you have no lean on would lead to... perhaps... a lean? Shake loose some informations, perhaps? <snipped> if you would learn to read for comprehension rather than whatever the fuck filter you read through you would know that i am not taking a stand on ed one way or the other. other than his current posting style gives me, personally, no way to make any kind of determination to his town or not town potential. anything you read past that is something you are making up or hallucinating on. and yes having been the victim of getting voted for being too loud, too disruptive, too confrontational, not being loud enough, not being disruptive enough, being too easily accomodating to the rest of the crowd, not welcoming enough to newbs, being too nice to newbs i don't find any of those to be really compelling indications of alignment. however, the folks that like to play that card chap my ass since it is lazy and typically not well intentioned. and that is just my experience having been the lynch victim because of those reasons as niller town more times than i can count.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 4, 2012 16:27:01 GMT -5
and i kind of figured that someone would circle around to this but fuck it. you seem to be getting heat for the same sort of shit that i typically get heat for. i am not defending you. i am condeming those that would condemn others because of their play style and/or approach. you just happen to be getting flack for behavior that i remain unconvinced makes you not town. Yes, I understand. And of course, I agree with you that there's no Scum tell in what I've done. What do you think of PizzaGuy's post? i think he's full of shit. almost as much as chronos at this point.
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 4, 2012 16:27:42 GMT -5
One of you or special ed are scum. I don't follow this. Where is the connection between the two of them? I know some players like to think in pairs. But this one I have a problem seeing. Could you explain it to me a bit more? I agree with this. A scum tell I've often observed is postulating specific "x is town if y is scum" or "x is scum if y is town" conclusions early on. There are too many independent variables for this kind of thing to even approach reliability at the beginning of the game, but it's a good way for someone to look like they're scumhunting without actually saying much of anything. FoS on pizza.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 16:29:12 GMT -5
One of you or special ed are scum. I don't follow this. Where is the connection between the two of them? I know some players like to think in pairs. But this one I have a problem seeing. Could you explain it to me a bit more? That's a good question. It's not uncommon for someone to say that Scum might come to the defense of a Townie in order to earn Townie cred. But I don't see how if peeker is Town, it has any bearing on my alignment. Unless ATPG us trying to say that if peeker is Town, he's right on target. If peeker is Scum, he's doing this for cred. Taking 3rd party/PFK out of the mix: 1. Scum peeker and Scum Ed: peeker is trying to defend his Scumbuddy 2. Scum peeker and Town Ed: peeker is trying to earn Townie cred by defending a Townie 3. Town peeker and Scum Ed: peeker genuinely feels the case on Ed is a null tell. 4. Town peeker and Town Ed peeker genuinely feels the case on Ed is a null tell. Assuming a Townie peeker, I fail to see what makes ATPG think the 4th scenario is more likely than the 3rd.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 4, 2012 16:30:43 GMT -5
Because of Pizzaguy's post, I actually went through Ed's posts in the thread so far. With the exception of his beginning set of posts making up fake scumtells and his drunken beastie boys nonsense all but 2 of his posts have been on point and game-related. And the two offtopic posts are responses to me anyway so it's my fault.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 4, 2012 16:36:34 GMT -5
and pizza just so we are fucking crystal clear. my vote is on chronos not because of his vote on ed. it's his fucking reasoning that gets my vote.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 4, 2012 16:54:54 GMT -5
Why purple text? Claiming 3rd party? Uh, No.
I've been using purple text since I joined these boards in all of my posts. I also tended to use two to end my posts, but I figured that might get annoying on these boards if I make a lot of posts.
Can't a girl have ANY sense of style? Or is it really not that kosher to use alternate colors? If i have to go to black and white, I will, but I like Purple, it's my favorite color regardless of whatever game I'm playing in.
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Post by Dirx on Mar 4, 2012 17:12:27 GMT -5
Purple often tends to get used in games here by players who are dead (ie, ghosts poking fun at the remaining players and so on). Also, I hate to say, but large blocks of purple text are hard to read, at least for me.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 4, 2012 17:17:30 GMT -5
Purple often tends to get used in games here by players who are dead (ie, ghosts poking fun at the remaining players and so on). Also, I hate to say, but large blocks of purple text are hard to read, at least for me. Oh okay. That makes sense. I'm sawwie then guys. I was wondering about that Me being dead comment.... I'll stick with the default colors then. But can I bring back the bunnies instead?
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 4, 2012 17:22:15 GMT -5
NETA: They are ADORABLE! Also, the editing thing is weird, but I'll try to stick with the NETA rather than trying to go back an edit. I know I like editing posts to fix typos and all that- but in these games, I think we have to go on what we say- so the idea of setting up a comfort level that some players are just going to Edit and it'll be "just for typos/fixing small things", that kinda bugs me. If we're playing Mafia, we should try to play Mafia, and not expect others to make exceptions for certain people because they only like to edit. I don't think it's a reason to vote anyone yet, but it's just something I think we should try to do. Can you guys try to cut back on the Edits? For one thing- it would have added a bit more credibility to the drunk posts if they were actually filled with typos, and I'd feel better about it rather than being forced to take someone on their word that they won't edit posts.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 4, 2012 17:26:08 GMT -5
I assure you, my drunk posts are rarely misspelled. It may take me 10 minutes to write a sentence, but everything is spelled correctly!
On the dope, since there is only a 5 minute editing period, I honestly don't care if people edit or not. If scum are coordinated enough to conference via editing posts, more power to them. I don't know what time limit, if any there is here but I still find myself pretty blase about editing. I don't tend to do it just because I don't care if I post 4 times in a row.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 17:29:30 GMT -5
I assure you, my drunk posts are rarely misspelled. It may take me 10 minutes to write a sentence, but everything is spelled correctly! On the dope, since there is only a 5 minute editing period, I honestly don't care if people edit or not. If scum are coordinated enough to conference via editing posts, more power to them. I don't know what time limit, if any there is here but I still find myself pretty blase about editing. I don't tend to do it just because I don't care if I post 4 times in a row. Doesn't the Dope also allow you to receive emails with the content of a post that has been made? And isn't that sent out before any edits are done? I know I get emails when the first new post arrives since my last visit to a subscribed thread.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 4, 2012 17:36:16 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I think it does. I've never experienced it firsthand because I don't really want even the throwaway address linked to my dope account to get deluged with emails every time a thread I've participated in gets a new post.
Does that not happen here? If you have this thread bookmarked with an email notification, do you get the contents of the first new post emailed to you? If so, I think any real objection to editing vanishes.
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Post by Drain Bead on Mar 4, 2012 17:39:52 GMT -5
Unvote me, Chronos, I'm contributing to the discussion. Wait! maybe I have some weird power where Chronos must do my bidding! Bark like a seal, Chronos! I blew it there, didn't I? No, it's just ice cream.
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Post by guiri on Mar 4, 2012 17:51:30 GMT -5
There are a lot of reasons for that: first, the Vig as we play it is typically useless and can been actively harmful to town, unlike other roles. Second, the consequences of a Vig kill are immediate and very bad for scum, which means that they would think twice before bussing a teammate. Third, the results of a Vig kill are public knowledge(as is the alignment of the victim), which is critical information in making sense of the voting record. Fourth, if the targets of other powers is public knowledge, it can be quite easy for scum to work around the power: investigated townies can be killed, the doctor's protect target can be avoided, etc. Absent a scum doctor or bus driver, both of which are very rare roles, there's not a lot scum can to avoid a Vig kill. Fair enough. I don't agree with your first point, my experience hasn't been so negative. To the risks, I'd add watcher to the list of scum roles that could make the plan backfire. I can't speak to how it actually works on this other board, but IMO a second vote would be better. More votes means more data for town to work with. Single vote. And no, because it defeats the whole purpose of resolving the second wagon if there's actually a separate vote. ;D That is, you let things play out the way they play out, and if a townie is lynched then the vig considers resolving the runner-up in votes, for the reasons I laid out earlier. I wonder how often the lynch runner-up and the vig candidate would be the same. In the runner up scenario, only players who have not voted the lynch candidate get a say. In the vote scenario, everyone gets a say. I may sneak in tiny, tiny hints here and there to amuse myself, but nothing significant. Color is just color. Important game information will always be revealed in a clear and unambiguous fashion and clarified as necessary. Thanks. I asked about the color due to the description of the lynch mechanism: the cauldron of "boiling, noxious green" and its location sounds like the vat of chemicals that transformed Red Hood and Jack Ryder into the Joker and the Creeper respectively, it's not always fatal. no I don't think the vig should take out the closes to being lynched (all to often a Town Power claiming Day 1,2,3 and saved in the last couple of hours of the Day). /snip Well, it sort of goes without saying that the hypothetical vig should also follow the game thread and be aware of claims... Why not a vote? Does that not happen here? If you have this thread bookmarked with an email notification, do you get the contents of the first new post emailed to you? If so, I think any real objection to editing vanishes. No, here it just says "The following thread in your bookmarks has been updated".
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 17:54:11 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, I think it does. I've never experienced it firsthand because I don't really want even the throwaway address linked to my dope account to get deluged with emails every time a thread I've participated in gets a new post. Does that not happen here? If you have this thread bookmarked with an email notification, do you get the contents of the first new post emailed to you? If so, I think any real objection to editing vanishes. 99.5% of my posts on the Dope and Giraffe are in the mafia threads. And I use a throwaway email for that.
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Post by guiri on Mar 4, 2012 18:00:53 GMT -5
Goy howdy, I hate this game. (Just kidding!) Having fun? Vote Drain Bead
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 4, 2012 18:21:13 GMT -5
I wonder how often the lynch runner-up and the vig candidate would be the same. In the runner up scenario, only players who have not voted the lynch candidate get a say. In the vote scenario, everyone gets a say. But we don't know who the runner-up is until after the lynch has taken place. I feel like I'm missing something with your scenario. I dunno; doesn't rise to the level of voteworthiness at this point.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 18:25:59 GMT -5
I wonder how often the lynch runner-up and the vig candidate would be the same. In the runner up scenario, only players who have not voted the lynch candidate get a say. In the vote scenario, everyone gets a say. But we don't know who the runner-up is until after the lynch has taken place. I feel like I'm missing something with your scenario. I think I understand what guiri is saying. Imagine the vote looks like this: Player A (8 votes) Player B (4 votes) Players C (1 Vote) Player A gets lynched. But Player C may actually be the second most suspicious, if he was the number 2 candidate of a majority of the Player A voters.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 18:27:11 GMT -5
But I think you're looking to eliminate the possibility of Scum steering a vote away from a Scum (player B) onto Player A. I get that too.
What would your suggestion be for a Vig who tends toward taking out runners-up on a Day when we lynch a Scum?
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 4, 2012 18:27:17 GMT -5
If we're playing Mafia, we should try to play Mafia, and not expect others to make exceptions for certain people because they only like to edit. I don't think it's a reason to vote anyone yet, but it's just something I think we should try to do. Can you guys try to cut back on the Edits? For one thing- it would have added a bit more credibility to the drunk posts if they were actually filled with typos, and I'd feel better about it rather than being forced to take someone on their word that they won't edit posts. The normal reason for no editing is the idea that people can't cover their slips and everybody has the same information as everybody else. Once somebody edits, the people who have seen what was edited are at an advantage over those who didn't see the edit. However, the main reason for game-related editing I can see is if somebody slips up and reveals their role/alignment accidentally and doesn't mean to. I don't think many people are going to be compelled to edit their posts to fix punctuation/grammar. And all things considered, unless the edit is lightning fast we've got people from all time zones playing this game so odds are somebody's going to catch the original post if there's a significant edit. I'm not too worried. This brings me to something that just struck me as a possibility. This is the first game I've ever played in where editing was allowed. Is it possible there's a power role that plays off edited posts somehow? Not even necessarily their own, but perhaps they can only target people that have edited? If there isn't, I call dibs on having something related to editing in my next game.
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Post by special on Mar 4, 2012 18:29:43 GMT -5
If there isn't, I call dibs on having something related to editing in my next game. reminds me of Night drinking.....
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Post by Gadarene on Mar 4, 2012 18:38:19 GMT -5
But I think you're looking to eliminate the possibility of Scum steering a vote away from a Scum (player B) onto Player A. I get that too. What would your suggestion be for a Vig who tends toward taking out runners-up on a Day when we lynch a Scum? First of all, I'm not making a blanket suggestion. I completely agree that vigs should use their own judgment above all else. But if I was a vig, and I was trying to decide who to target, I would go after some combination of the following: (1) people I personally found the scummiest; (2) people whose resolution would clear up past wagons (the "second lynch" function); and (3) people who are unclear and/or under the radar. Probably in that order. So on the night following the lynch of a scum, I would deprioritize (2) and make my decision on the basis of (1) and (3).
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Post by sinjin on Mar 4, 2012 18:43:20 GMT -5
<oog>Sorry for my absence. I am assisting my daughter and her 2.5 year old get situated in San Diego, Ca. We have spent endless days looking for apartments and daycare followed by nights looking for furniture to put in the apartment. Imagine if you will me and my daughter trying to wrestle a queen size mattress onto one of those little carts at IKEA while trying to control an extremely tired and bored child. Whee! I'm getting to old for this.
I managed to read some of this Day last night before falling asleep on the floor. Heh, mattress gets delivered tonight! I will re-read, catch up and post today if I am still coherent. If not I am taking tomorrow off while my little angel goes to day care and my big angel goes off to work, so expect posts soon. </oog>
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Post by texcat on Mar 4, 2012 18:46:36 GMT -5
I have been trying to do a little side reading on the original game and came across this from storyteller: Is this something storyteller would do in this game?
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Post by texcat on Mar 4, 2012 18:55:13 GMT -5
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