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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 15, 2012 17:19:31 GMT -5
I had suspicions about Drain prior to any claiming, she was one of those early LightFoot voters making me pull my hair out yesterDay, and I'm certainly not advocating that we should lynch all claimed 3rd parties. Every every vote and every lynch should be considered on its own merits.
Feel free to read my posts advocating for her lynch. I reference the possibility of keeping her out of scum hands, but it wasn't my only justification.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:20:03 GMT -5
Lord help us if the screen starts to flash, vibrate and or claxxon.
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Post by Drain Bead on Mar 15, 2012 17:21:50 GMT -5
Spoilers, please?
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Post by Silver Jan on Mar 15, 2012 17:22:20 GMT -5
Silver Jan is the clearest example of "moves to the beat of her own drummer" that I've ever seen. I think Mr Silver had some proceedures today. it could be a wine night. Ya think Maybe I should go offline
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:23:12 GMT -5
Let me come at this a different way.
Chronos: Was your appeal for acrosstics a "fail" or a "win", in your opinion?
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 15, 2012 17:25:07 GMT -5
yes, we lynch every known not town. because who is to say that they haven't joined the dark side, so to speak. in which case they become scum which, i think, you advocate eliminating. Well, Drain could say, but you got rid of her. And of course, Nanook has said that he gets one successful recruitment. If we're going to assume that since town has a recruiter, scum must have one, I'm going to assume their recruiter only gets one successful recruit too. Who knows? Maybe they've already found a recruitable third party. All I know is that town has now lynched two people whose deaths have not furthered my wincon. If it weren't for Pleo's strange yet accurate fixation and , for lack of any other claimants, texcat's lucky guess, town would be in a funk right now.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 17:28:05 GMT -5
I think Mr Silver had some proceedures today. it could be a wine night. i get all sentimental and shit at times. and sure i miss some of my old friends in this game. but it is just this kind of carp that gives me hope.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:29:46 GMT -5
I think Mr Silver had some proceedures today. it could be a wine night. i get all sentimental and shit at times. and sure i miss some of my old friends in this game. but it is just this kind of carp that gives me hope. I think peeker just unmuted his drummer feed.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 17:33:24 GMT -5
yes, we lynch every known not town. because who is to say that they haven't joined the dark side, so to speak. in which case they become scum which, i think, you advocate eliminating. Well, Drain could say, but you got rid of her. And of course, Nanook has said that he gets one successful recruitment. If we're going to assume that since town has a recruiter, scum must have one, I'm going to assume their recruiter only gets one successful recruit too. Who knows? Maybe they've already found a recruitable third party. All I know is that town has now lynched two people whose deaths have not furthered my wincon. If it weren't for Pleo's strange yet accurate fixation and , for lack of any other claimants, texcat's lucky guess, town would be in a funk right now. well i guess so. but we've gone two Days and one Night and i've got two dead scum in my pocket. as well as some third parties whose wincon may or may not be congruent as mine. so i count that as a net plus. what's your fucking wincon by the way? i mean i am sure you already posted it but since apparantly yours is different than mine i am kind of curious. just point me to the post and i can figure it out.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:33:33 GMT -5
A third track on this, if I may. I believe I know the answer, but I think I come across better for this one if I flat out ask.
What is the town motivation for town to recruit third parties? [Note, I mean third parties, not PFK, as this immediate game defines both.]
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Post by texcat on Mar 15, 2012 17:37:08 GMT -5
Lucky guess, my ass. It was my impeccable logic. Meeko, if we recruit third parties, their win condition changes to the town wincon. They become town. They use their powers for the good of town. Likewise, if scum recruits them, their wincon becomes the scum wincon.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 17:37:11 GMT -5
neta: just copy your role pm from story and redact everything except your wincon if that makes it easier.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 15, 2012 17:43:26 GMT -5
Note how the town wincon has nothing to say about third party players. Drain and Pleo, in isolation, have not benefited us in terms of meeting the conditions of the wincons. In fact, one can very easily argue that their deaths by lynching have made it that much harder to meet our wincon. The fact that pleo's death meant Ed died too, doesn't mean that killing pleo was the right thing to do, just that pleo decided to do town a favor on his way out.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 15, 2012 17:44:10 GMT -5
That's from the rules thread, not my pm. Because it's the same either way.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:47:06 GMT -5
Meeko, if we recruit third parties, their win condition changes to the town wincon. They become town. They use their powers for the good of town. Likewise, if scum recruits them, their wincon becomes the scum wincon. Work with me here. Doesn't this also mean that Town has more time? Yes this game has 30 players. I don't think we have that many town to begin with. This is pure speculation on my part. I look at the number of people claiming third party and I think my view of limited townies at start is supported. I think town will need more time than they have at start. Thus, I think we will need to recruit. I think it's a lot easier by defintion, to recruit third parties, than to recruit Scum and PFK. Kinda hard to do if we lynch Third parties.
I think the game at large [that is, the players] are assuming that we have certain things in place, as we have had in other games. I think town needs to work together to assemble a methodology that gets us to a point that other mafia games start at. This at present looks like we need to recruit first. THEN we can lynch the rest.
I'm not so sure I can phrase it any better than that.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 15, 2012 17:51:27 GMT -5
I don't think you just can't strip away their claimed powers and the consequences of those powers, Pleo moreso than Drain perhaps, but still.
Pleo claimed early, had a bag full of deadly fun, and was quite clear that he was going to use it as he saw fit. No guilt of hand-wringing for me in lynching him. Similar situation with Drain, just not as acute or confirmed. And despite how you're trying to wrap them both in Townie clothing, THE WERE NOT TOWNIES.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 17:52:57 GMT -5
Note how the town wincon has nothing to say about third party players. Drain and Pleo, in isolation, have not benefited us in terms of meeting the conditions of the wincons. In fact, one can very easily argue that their deaths by lynching have made it that much harder to meet our wincon. The fact that pleo's death meant Ed died too, doesn't mean that killing pleo was the right thing to do, just that pleo decided to do town a favor on his way out. i am unsure as to how you reach this conclusion. the mog has already stated that there is a form of limited recruitment available. additionally we have some folks that have claimed this ability. now i find it hard to believe that town would have a recruitment ability that extended to scum (that's game breaking). i also posit that to offset this town recruitment possibility that scum would have something similar. now where are the recruits going to come from? i would further posit that they are going to come from non aligned third parties. and since third parties that win with either side have no underlying allegiance i would further posit that they will go with the wind. now certainly i want to lynch scum or pfk (who appear to be an outlier) initially. but given the chance that a non aligned could become problematic - yeh, i'll kill 'em. lot of fucking positing.
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Post by Nanook on Mar 15, 2012 17:53:01 GMT -5
I would be completely shocked if there was a Town recruiter besides myself. My recruitment is done, so I guess by your logic Meeko it's time to start lynching.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 17:58:44 GMT -5
I would be completely shocked if there was a Town recruiter besides myself. My recruitment is done, so I guess by your logic Meeko it's time to start lynching. First off, I note you aren't ruling out a second town recruiter. Second, I'm not sure how I can confirm that your recruiting is done. Third, this statement is wholly yours. I'm not sure how my logic got in there.
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Post by Inner Stickler on Mar 15, 2012 17:59:29 GMT -5
I don't think you just can't strip away their claimed powers and the consequences of those powers, Pleo moreso than Drain perhaps, but still. Pleo claimed early, had a bag full of deadly fun, and was quite clear that he was going to use it as he saw fit. No guilt of hand-wringing for me in lynching him. Similar situation with Drain, just not as acute or confirmed. And despite how you're trying to wrap them both in Townie clothing, THE WERE NOT TOWNIES. Fine so you stop wrapping them in scum/pfk clothing BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T THOSE EITHER. I'm going to drink alcohol and watch Community. It's apparent that we're not going to agree on this issue and it's making me cranky so I'll see everyone tomorrow, or possibly Tomorrow.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 18:01:58 GMT -5
And despite how you're trying to wrap them both in Townie clothing, THE WERE NOT TOWNIES. Inner : Do you still have that desk of yours?
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 15, 2012 18:14:19 GMT -5
I don't have to wrap Pleo in anything that he didn't wrap himself in. Drain's early vote on LightFoot was weak and nonsensical, her role just seemed off in its difficulty to play, and it wasn't something to leave around for Scum or PFK to recruit.
It seems like you're asking me to mourn Pleo and Drain like they were on my team and their loss not only advanced the Scum wincon, but also undercut the Town's. While I'm not asking you to celebrate their deaths like they were Scum and as if their deaths advanced the Town and setback the Scum. I'm also not advocating that all 3rd parties be exterminated, despite you seeming to want to put those words in my mouth.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 15, 2012 18:18:24 GMT -5
For reference:
People Who Were Okay Lynching Pleonast as Third-Party but Not Okay Lynching Drain Bead as Third-Party Gadarene BillMc Suburban Plankton Hal Briston (although he has a little note attached to him since he was voting Pleonast in self-defense)
People Who Were Not Okay Lynching Pleonast as Third-Party but Okay Lynching Drain Bead as Third-Party Total Ullz Dirx
People Who Were Okay Lynching Pleonast and Drain Bead as Third-Parties Cookies Nanook texcat SBrOwn sinjin peeker
People Who Were Not Okay Lynching Pleonast OR Drain Bead as Third-Parties Mahaloth Inner Stickler askthepizzaguy
This is a list of all people who were on both main wagons (Pleo vs. Tex and Drain vs. Archangel)
In addition:
Rysto - Voted against Pleonast, had one-off vote against Silver Jan Pollux Oil - Voted against Hal, Voted against Drain Bead Lightfoot - Voted against Hal, Voted against Drain Bead Chronos - Voted Against texcat, one-off-ish against Lightfoot (away at EOD2) scathach - No Vote Day One, Voted against Drain Bead
Finally:
No Votes On Main Lynch Wagons Either Day: Idle Thoughts Archangel Meeko Silver Jan (attempted to vote Archangel after deadline) gnarlycharlie
---
Will do some analysis of this later but for now, just posting for reference for everyone.
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Mar 15, 2012 19:19:30 GMT -5
Actually, when I voted for Lightfoot, she WAS the main lynch wagon at the time (or became it soon after)... ..I then wasn't online much after that, so I couldn't have unvoted her to vote for anyone else.
I've been pretty sick lately, doing most of my time sleeping every day for up to 17 hours a day. : / For that, I'm sorry. I should get a sub.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 19:47:20 GMT -5
Actually, when I voted for Lightfoot, she WAS the main lynch wagon at the time (or became it soon after)... ..I then wasn't online much after that, so I couldn't have unvoted her to vote for anyone else. I've been pretty sick lately, doing most of my time sleeping every day for up to 17 hours a day. : / For that, I'm sorry. I should get a sub. well sorry to hear. but get one with bell peppers (even though they give me gas, personally) because i think they are chock full of vitamin C which should help.
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 20:05:11 GMT -5
ok. i am going to soapbox it. never a good time for anyone.
while i agree with the most of the folks that killing third parties can be kind of dicey i am not getting some of the "oh shit we killed a third party" kind of nonsense. i mean by definition they are fucking THIRD parties which means basically they don't give a shit. i know i am town and while i certainly don't mind having switzerland on my side i am not going to cry a whit if they get over run. i am here to eliminate scum and pfk (if any). so i think some of the aww shucks we got rid of a 3rd is really odd. fuck 'em. they weren't and aren't by definition on my side. my wincon does not preclude that i can with them but shit i have no clue what their wincon is. other than the fact that i know that they are not tied to me.
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Meeko
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Post by Meeko on Mar 15, 2012 20:10:15 GMT -5
ok. i am going to soapbox it. never a good time for anyone. while i agree with the most of the folks that killing third parties can be kind of dicey i am not getting some of the "oh shit we killed a third party" kind of nonsense. i mean by definition they are fucking THIRD parties which means basically they don't give a shit. i know i am town and while i certainly don't mind having switzerland on my side i am not going to cry a whit if they get over run. i am here to eliminate scum and pfk (if any). so i think some of the aww shucks we got rid of a 3rd is really odd. fuck 'em. they weren't and aren't by definition on my side. my wincon does not preclude that i can with them but shit i have no clue what their wincon is. other than the fact that i know that they are not tied to me. i mean by definition they are fucking THIRD parties which means basically they don't give a shit. i am here to eliminate scum and pfk (if any). Peeker Are you saying that we mislynched today?
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 15, 2012 20:21:15 GMT -5
Actually, when I voted for Lightfoot, she WAS the main lynch wagon at the time (or became it soon after)... ..I then wasn't online much after that, so I couldn't have unvoted her to vote for anyone else. I've been pretty sick lately, doing most of my time sleeping every day for up to 17 hours a day. : / For that, I'm sorry. I should get a sub. Bummer you are sick but you voted because LightFoot was the lynch wagon? or for a better reason? correct me if I read that wrong
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Post by peekercpa on Mar 15, 2012 20:37:38 GMT -5
ok. i am going to soapbox it. never a good time for anyone. while i agree with the most of the folks that killing third parties can be kind of dicey i am not getting some of the "oh shit we killed a third party" kind of nonsense. i mean by definition they are fucking THIRD parties which means basically they don't give a shit. i know i am town and while i certainly don't mind having switzerland on my side i am not going to cry a whit if they get over run. i am here to eliminate scum and pfk (if any). so i think some of the aww shucks we got rid of a 3rd is really odd. fuck 'em. they weren't and aren't by definition on my side. my wincon does not preclude that i can with them but shit i have no clue what their wincon is. other than the fact that i know that they are not tied to me. i mean by definition they are fucking THIRD parties which means basically they don't give a shit. i am here to eliminate scum and pfk (if any). Peeker Are you saying that we mislynched today? absolutely not. did you see her flip? she was not town. could she have helped town? perhaps. is there someone else that would have been a better choice? perhaps. could she have had a wincon that does not preclude mine? perhaps. could she have hurt town? perhaps. could she have a wincon that is in direct conflict with mine? perhaps. was she definitely on my side? UH, NO FUCKING WAYi mean if you want to get into really jousting at windmills i guess the short sighted could argue that she was neither scum nor pfk so her death does nothing for me. but i take a much broader view and also consider that she potentially could have been at some point. additionally she was not town. i'm kind of playing for town if you haven't figured it out by now.
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Post by LightFoot on Mar 15, 2012 20:38:38 GMT -5
I would be completely shocked if there was a Town recruiter besides myself. My recruitment is done, so I guess by your logic Meeko it's time to start lynching. First off, I note you aren't ruling out a second town recruiter. true enough and they are not going to out just for you Since nanook is a claimed one shot, it’s a safe bet ( unless the recent recruitment fails- I think) BTW if you are Town why is that such an issue for you? Well I remember you said recruit first and lynch after? Forgive me if needed, but I can’t understand your stance as a pro-town approach. [small sarcasm] maybe if you typed slower? [/ss] Town does not NEED 3rd parties alive to win. If their ‘ gifts’ are beneficial to Scum more than Town keeping them alive is not the best idea. They will share their results. If it’s a Scum benefit, Scum will gain that knowledge and use it. Town and 3rd party actors cannot talk off board. Oh wait-- shiteRemember this… [from the rules] 2. Posting There are no post restrictions. As long as you are alive, you may post whatever you like, wherever you like, whenever you like. You may quote your role PM, and any PM sent to you by the moderators. You may discuss strategy by Day or by Night. If you have access to outside boards, you may post to them on any subject at any time. If someone claims a post restriction of any kind, they are lying; lynch them. [/ftr] Individual communication appears to be possible……..off board……by anyone.... Carp ( to coin a phrase)
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