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Post by BillMc on Mar 26, 2012 10:51:10 GMT -5
Three deaths on N1 and three on N3, and another device, several messages and more kerosene. Pretty busy night in Gotham.
So N2 either- #1 the third killer chose not to kill #2 the third killer was blocked #3 the third killer's target was protected
ATPG claimed to have blocked Sinjin, and Gadarene claimed to have been blocked. We've no idea if ATPG was truthful, and it would seem a bery high risk gabmit for a non-town Gadrene to admit to being blocked if they were the killer.
So I think #3 is most likely.
A forth option would be that the scum get an additional NK on odd-numbered nights - that seems overly powerful. Tho if N4 yields only 2 deaths and N5 3 deaths, then it may be true.
In addition to the 3rd killer, the scum killer and texcat, we appear to have two other parties active a night - the gadget freak, possibly a mad-bomber type role; and our mystery kerosene source.
As for the two notes - Pleo did say that he could send messages, so it is plausible that one or more folk can also send messages (e.g. Peeker's message). As for the authenticity of any message, I think we need to play it safe and take them with a very large pinch of salt. However, I would have to disagree with Total's assertion that her message amounted to a post restriction. In Pleo's C5 game there were also no post restrictions - however, when Hoopy offered recruitment to the freemasons they had the choice of continuing to post (and joining the cabal) or not posting (and dying at dawn). That wasn't a restriction, it was a choice.
Nanook stated that his recruitment was limited to a 3rd party - if the scum can recruit it is plausible that they would have the same restriction. If not, then we can trust nobody until they are dead.
Which brings me to Mahaloth's suggestion of a mass claim. In general, a mass claim works best when there are detective results to prove/disprove the claims.
Now we apparently have five investigators: - Astral (unknown, town) - Rysto (unknown, town) - SilverJan (name investigator, town) - Lightfoot (scum/not scum investigator, claimed town) - Drain (3rd party/not 3rd party investigator, 3rd party)
4 of which are dead, and there is a big question mark hanging over the authenticity of Lightfoot's claim.
It seems a little strange to suggest a mass claim the moment our investigators turn up dead. The line from Mahaloth's PM about his alignment being confirmed on death but not on resurrection irks me.
I'd like to hear Mahaloth's argument and reasons for having a mass claim now?
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Post by Sister Coyote on Mar 26, 2012 11:09:46 GMT -5
It seems a little strange to suggest a mass claim the moment our investigators turn up dead. Thank you for articulating what was bothering me about Maha's suggestion for a mass claim. Charlie -- I could have gone either way with the read of your post. I'm still feeling wishy-washy about it.
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 26, 2012 14:10:27 GMT -5
Arright, I've not been thrilled with Lightfoot for most of the game. I've gone with the (admittedly not the most reliable thing in the world) "A or B is likely scum" feeling between her and SilverJan for several days now. We apparently have a metric buttload of investigative roles in this game, and every one that turns up town is making Lightfoot appear to be less and less likely to be town as well.
So with that, I'm going to...well, "vote Lightfoot" without actually voting for her. Barring any major scum expose', I will before the Day is out, but as much as a button-poker as I am, I'm not going to tempt this box on my chest right now.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 14:11:37 GMT -5
Three deaths on N1 and three on N3, and another device, several messages and more kerosene. Pretty busy night in Gotham. So N2 either- #1 the third killer chose not to kill #2 the third killer was blocked #3 the third killer's target was protected ATPG claimed to have blocked Sinjin, and Gadarene claimed to have been blocked. We've no idea if ATPG was truthful, and it would seem a bery high risk gabmit for a non-town Gadrene to admit to being blocked if they were the killer. So I think #3 is most likely. I don't know that it's wise to assume that just because Pizza was Scum, that means everything he said was untrue. He was identified as Scum (Special), which would be consistent with a Roleblocker ability. And if he was a Scum Roleblocker, what motivation would he have had to lie about his target? I think the simplest explanation, until evidence is presented to the contrary, is that Pizza did in fact block Sinjin on Night 2. Now, it doesn't necessarily follow that Sinjin is a Killer and would have been responsible for death #3 had he not been blocked...but it's a mistake to assume that 'Scum always lie'.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 14:23:23 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind a LightFoot lynch at this point, though the information gleaned even if she does flip as scum doesn't seem as incisive as a Mahaloth lynch would be with the information we'd get about Nanook, who has also been niggling around in the back of my mind since back when we were still debating whether Nanook should try and recruit Mahaloth.
With only Townie deaths last night and not very much solid information gleaned from those deaths, the burden of the unconfirmed is just growing into a heavier burden for the Town to continue to carry.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 14:25:02 GMT -5
Sinjin isn't a he.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 26, 2012 14:51:16 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind a LightFoot lynch at this point, though the information gleaned even if she does flip as scum doesn't seem as incisive as a Mahaloth lynch would be with the information we'd get about Nanook, who has also been niggling around in the back of my mind since back when we were still debating whether Nanook should try and recruit Mahaloth. This worries me as Lynching Mahaloth would effectively kill him (he wouldn't come back), and if he shows up town, we've confirmed a vanilla townie (nanook) at the price of having a Scotsman. I'd rather keep the pair together, as a plausible double townie scenario, and force the scum to have to either kill neither of them or kill one to confirm the other (though if they kill Mahaloth then we'd enter the arguments of "does he return as Town?", but at the cost of a confirmed Nanook. But if Nanook is scum, then we're screwed on that end. So... how does one confirm mason groups without investigators? Because we've basically got 3 people in "mason-like" arrangements. ( Peeks in a Mason group of one, Nanook--Mahaloth, and then Tota--- Inner) So with that, I'm going to...well, "vote Lightfoot" without actually voting for her. Barring any major scum expose', I will before the Day is out, but as much as a button-poker as I am, I'm not going to tempt this box on my chest right now. I know your device is all your own device and all.... But really, Hal? Now you're going to be a coward- when it comes to self-preservation? Fair enough- different strokes. That said, your device is also in the negative numbers, which is why I'm curious, as I wonder if its similar to MY device- Pollux has the Vote counting device, and he has positive numbers, but yours is negative. So either your device doesn't have the same mechanism, or maybe it does something else with votes? You do have -5... It's not exactly -1 or -2 just yet. Just saying. I'd venture to at least try to test and give the rest of us (and yourself) more information if possible. But if the device is just going to make you clam up and live in fear- how is that more beneficial to the Town? ~~~~~ Also, is anyone else thinking about the idea of Recruitment? I'm still wondering- if Scum were going to recruit anyone, who would they recruit by this point? They're down 3 players, and though we've seen the "message" that was received by Total, I don't think that's the way they'd go about it. Actually, the only Role that I've seen so far that really seems to have the whole WIFOM of recruitment inside of it has been in Mahaloth's Grundy one, and in Lightfoot's Robin going either way.... I think at some point we're going to have to be able to confirm Robin's investigations, but the only way to do that is with her inevitable death- because if she flips scum and/or was recruited, then that'd put Sactch and others back into the "not confirmed" pool yet, but if she flips Town, then we'd know her investigations have been correct- just something to think about as we wind closer towards the end (Which I still think is a ways off personally). What are your thoughts about that, Lightfoot? Do you realize the trickiness of proving your veracity? It'd be easier if you had a pool of 3-5 "not scums" to confirm for such a trade off personally, but then again every confirmed townie would be a benefit down the road, no?
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 14:52:28 GMT -5
With only Townie deaths last night and not very much solid information gleaned from those deaths, the burden of the unconfirmed is just growing into a heavier burden for the Town to continue to carry. [italics mine] I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the highlighted part...are you saying you support a Mass Claim? Yes, we did lose 'only Townies' last Night, but let's all remember that we're only 3 Days into this game, and so far the deaths have been 6 Town 3 Scum 3 Third Party That translates to 6 of 'Us' and 6 of 'not Us', which is not a bad ratio. On top of that, we have one 'pretty well confirmed' Townie ( Total), two 'mutually confirming' Townies ( peeker and Gadarene), and two other 'can pretty much confirm each other' Townies ( Nanook and mahaloth). Put all of that together, and I don't think we're in terribly dire straits at the moment.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 26, 2012 14:53:44 GMT -5
Where is Lightfoot anyways? We're almost halfway through the Day, and we've still yet to hear a peep from our investigator?
It's not a good sign that we're getting quieter and quieter as the Days go on... or is that a pretty normal thing for these games? Is this about the normal banter for Day 4 or ? At this rate, I wonder if we'll even reach 150 posts by the end of the week!
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 26, 2012 14:55:56 GMT -5
On top of that, we have one 'pretty well confirmed' Townie ( Total), two 'mutually confirming' Townies ( peeker and Gadarene), and two other 'can pretty much confirm each other' Townies ( Nanook and mahaloth). I agree with this for the most part- but a correct- I believe Peeksmentioned last night that his power would work on anyone and not just Townies, thus he can't really "prove" Gad's towniness, other than Peeks feels he's behaved in a Townie/Not Scum way. That's not quite the same as "mutually confirming".
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 14:58:44 GMT -5
On top of that, we have one 'pretty well confirmed' Townie ( Total), two 'mutually confirming' Townies ( peeker and Gadarene), and two other 'can pretty much confirm each other' Townies ( Nanook and mahaloth). I agree with this for the most part- but a correct- I believe Peeksmentioned last night that his power would work on anyone and not just Townies, thus he can't really "prove" Gad's towniness, other than Peeks feels he's behaved in a Townie/Not Scum way. That's not quite the same as "mutually confirming". Ah yes, that's correct. Though I agree with peeker that Gadarene's reaction tends to suggest that he (Gad) is Town (though I understand that this is not a universally held viewpoint).
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 15:08:30 GMT -5
Where is Lightfoot anyways? We're almost halfway through the Day, and we've still yet to hear a peep from our investigator? It's not a good sign that we're getting quieter and quieter as the Days go on... or is that a pretty normal thing for these games? Is this about the normal banter for Day 4 or ? At this rate, I wonder if we'll even reach 150 posts by the end of the week! I agree with both these sentiments. We're closing in on 48 hours into the Day, and there are six players that have not posted yet. Most conspicuous by their absence so far is our Investigator LightFoot. she could potentially help us to connect some of our dots if she'd make an appearance today. I'm also interested in hearing from Gadarene. He volunteered that he was Roleblocked on Night 2, and then pretty much disappeared from the game after that.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 15:25:42 GMT -5
With only Townie deaths last night and not very much solid information gleaned from those deaths, the burden of the unconfirmed is just growing into a heavier burden for the Town to continue to carry. [italics mine] I'm not sure exactly how to interpret the highlighted part...are you saying you support a Mass Claim? No, as I've already said. I don't consider the Peeker/Gadrene pair as 'pretty well confirmed' anymore, with Peeker's clarification on his power, though I'm still leaning towards Town on Peeker and have not seen a reason to suspect Gadrene at this point. I also don't consider Nanook and Mahaloth as 'pretty well confirmed' either. And I'm not yet inclined to lean Town yet on either of them on their own merits. My view of the pile of stuff that is still unconfirmed: Peeker, Gadrene, (Nanook+Mahaloth), LightFoot, 3 number-bearing devices (and what significance, if any, does each device have aside from Pollux's counting down based on his votes?), and various people who are or aren't smelling kerosene (and what significance, if any, does smelling of the substance, not smelling the substance, or the substance itself have?) Ideally I'd like to see something solid about any of those things, and without something solid I'm not inclined to trust in them one way or another. None of the dead Townies from last night provided any such insight, thus my lament. It is not an especially strong lament, just that anything scummy that may or may not be left to fester in that pile of unconfirmed stuff concerns me.
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Post by Nanook on Mar 26, 2012 15:29:17 GMT -5
I don't post a ton on weekends, and I have a take home midterm and an accounting test today, so that's why I haven't been around. At this point I have two heavy suspicions, BillMC and Cookies. Both are for similar reasons. Bill, much like Pizza, hasn't really posted much of anything with meat on it. Where are your suspicions? Where are your accusations? I haven't really played a ton of games with you, but I am well aware of your amazing reputation as a scum hunter. But you haven't really done any of that this game. Plus you like to keep talking about how we can't trust Mahaloth if I were to die, because we don't know if he would stay Town is he was NK'd. The line from Mahaloth's PM is there to clearly and unequivocally state that he is not a Scotsman, but he is bulletproof. Having his recruitment wear off after a NK attempt is pure unadulterated Bastard, to both him and the person/side that recruited him. Cookies has been bothering me off and on from the start, but this post was the final straw. I wouldn't mind a LightFoot lynch at this point, though the information gleaned even if she does flip as scum doesn't seem as incisive as a Mahaloth lynch would be with the information we'd get about Nanook, who has also been niggling around in the back of my mind since back when we were still debating whether Nanook should try and recruit Mahaloth. Why the hell would you kill a power role to confirm a vanilla when you could kill the vanilla to confirm the power role? Oh right, because you're scum who know that we're not lying and this way once Mahaloth is dead dead(since he has no protection from the lynch), you can NK me as a confirmed Townie. If we killed me, you couldn't kill Mahaloth since he's protected from NKs, and now there's a basically unkillable confirmed Town wandering around. This is one of the worst possible things that could happen to scum. BTW peeker? I think the way you choose to use your power was awful, but I still believe you're Town. Too bad I can no longer say the same about Gad. We have a lot of extant claims already, so a mass claim isn't awful. I don't know that it's necessary now though. I disagree strongly with Bill's premise that mass claims are of use mainly to confirm investigations results. I note on preview that Cookies is continuing to throw doubt on every single potential claim out there. Unsurprising really, and tips her into the lead over Bill in my mind. Vote: Cookies
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 15:39:45 GMT -5
I don't consider the Peeker/Gadrene pair as 'pretty well confirmed' anymore, with Peeker's clarification on his power, though I'm still leaning towards Town on Peeker and have not seen a reason to suspect Gadrene at this point. I also don't consider Nanook and Mahaloth as 'pretty well confirmed' either. And I'm not yet inclined to lean Town yet on either of them on their own merits. My view of the pile of stuff that is still unconfirmed: Peeker, Gadrene, (Nanook+Mahaloth), LightFoot, 3 number-bearing devices (and what significance, if any, does each device have aside from Pollux's counting down based on his votes?), and various people who are or aren't smelling kerosene (and what significance, if any, does smelling of the substance, not smelling the substance, or the substance itself have?) Ideally I'd like to see something solid about any of those things, and without something solid I'm not inclined to trust in them one way or another. None of the dead Townies from last night provided any such insight, thus my lament. It is not an especially strong lament, just that anything scummy that may or may not be left to fester in that pile of unconfirmed stuff concerns me. Your point about peeker and Gadarene is correct, as was also pointed out be SBrOwn. I didn't say that Nanook and mahaloth were 'pretty well confirmed'. I said that they could 'pretty much confirm each other', in that if either of them flips Town it strongly suggests that the other is Town as well; the same applies if one flips non-Town. True, it's not much help right now, but it may come in handy later. As for the kerosene smell...I think we have a Mad Bomber.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 15:46:34 GMT -5
I was looking over the current claims, and I went back to Idle's. It still bothers me.
This seems to raise more questions every time I look at it.
What happens the second time he is targeted for a Night Kill? If Idle kills his attacker, is he spared, or is he still killed? If Idle fails to kill his attacker, is he killed or not?
Compared to other PMs that we've seen (not all of which are guaranteed genuine, I know), this seems somewhat lacking in the finer details. This makes me think it's fake.
vote Idle Thoughts
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 26, 2012 15:53:32 GMT -5
You do have -5... It's not exactly -1 or -2 just yet. Just saying. I'd venture to at least try to test and give the rest of us (and yourself) more information if possible. But if the device is just going to make you clam up and live in fear- how is that more beneficial to the Town? Actually, I was giving it a test -- what if it's not voting that changes my counter? What if it's just using the word "vote"? What's if it's just making a post? It really could be anything that could affect the display, since we have no idea what effect the devises have. I'd be ticked if I were limited to only five posts before this baby blows up, killing me and three people around me, but for all we know it's going to spray out confetti and whipped cream. But, there was no change from either of those two possibilities, so the next test is... Vote Lightfoot
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Post by Idle Thoughts on Mar 26, 2012 16:02:12 GMT -5
I assume nothing happens, Suburban. Would you like me to actually ask the mod, though? Seemed to me to be pretty clear, that it's just a one shot thing. IMHO, anything more than just once would be too overpowered.
And again, the way I read it, if I kill my attacker, how do they kill me? It looks obvious to me that if I'm successful, I live...and if I'm not, I don't.
So where's your confusion over these things I seem to see as simple explained things?
Not to mention, you think I'm scum, huh? Even though you were voting for me yesterDay....after...hmmm.....who was it....... OH YES! PIZZAGUY voted for me. He was the first vote on me, too. So you think that scum would try to bus scum and be hopeful that a bandwagon starts on fellow scum when they've already lost THREE of their members?
Sorry, does not compute. And I know fully well that scum will easily vote for each other in order to gain Town cred... but when THREE of their members have already fallen? That'd be pretty stupid scum, let me tell you. Why can't it be that the scum (aka, pizza), worried they'd not be able to get me out at Night without losing YET ANOTHER of their number, were trying to get me out in the Day, with a lynch? That makes MORE sense, I'd think.
Why do you always seem to pick on me in games? More often than not, you always wind up voting for me..and you always wind up being wrong.*
*assuming you're wrong here and not just scum. But like I said above....I'm betting it was scum wanting to try to get me LYNCHED in the Day rather than attempt to kill me at Night....something you seem to be doing right here.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 26, 2012 16:20:35 GMT -5
Okay, so of the texcat voters on Day One only three remain alive: Ulla (masonish), Mahaloth (supposedly recruited to town side), and Dirx the Coyote (unknown). I thought I would take a good look at Dirx the Coyote's posts. Day OnePost #89: Chimes in that Ed's new style is similar to peeker but is overall a null tell. Post #215: Responds to askthepizzaguy's posts: Disagrees with his plan to list suspects on Day One, says it'll have too much unnecessary suspicion cast on everyone. Post #282: Disagrees with Inner, points out a PFK could easily play the same way as a Third-Party, and mentions he appealed to scum as a third party in a former game. Post #324: Talking to pizzaguy again, seems confused by a post where pizzaguy says: "If every non-townie wants to claim, they can do so. It's pro-town of them. Not pro-themselves, but definitely pro-town." Post #327: Agrees with Pollux about "spirit of the game" regarding Pleonast's role; says he wouldn't claim if given the role Pleonast did. Post #519: Says he isn't against a Pleo lynch. Would like to leave him for a Nightkill, but would feel better getting him out of the way immediately. Also says he thinks the case on texcat is interesting. Post #587: Is okay with acrostic suggestion, posts his. Notes about Chronos' suggestion that when laying a trap it's usually better not to announce there's a trap. Post #588: Notes that the longer the acrostic the better as it would be harder for people to fake. *NOTE: His was Tolpsasarotmpttb. Would that be considered long? Post #654: Notes he's a late voter and he's leaning towards texcat but is thinking about one or two other leads. Tells Pizzaguy his vote change won't count because it wasn't formatted correctly. Post #673: Wants to know why Ed is set to die when Hal and Texcat are tied for second in votes. Post #686: Tells Pleo he's not being very cooperative despite saying he wants to work with town. *NOTE: This is in response to this post. Possible anger at Pleo most likely taking Ed out and not willing to negotiate on the matter? Post #694: Notes Pleo now has to rely on town to reach his wincon, and suggests giving a little more in his negotiations so town will cut him some slack. Post #730: Says Meeko's been leaping to paranoid conclusions all Day and that looks like a townie Meeko, and a scummy one is lurky. Post #757: Says he doesn't like Pleo's actions, his offer to kill the voting runner-up is a start but wants more cooperation. Open to the possibility of a Vig taking him out tonight. Then says he's legitimately suspicious of Texcat for reacting too strongly in the negative towards Chronos' acrostic suggestion, in addition to the supposed PIS people pointed out. Votes for texcat. *NOTE: His vote here puts texcat ahead of Pleo and is before texcat claims...she claims 4 or 5 posts later. Post #819: Notes Texcat made two comments in the Vig discussion (Vig should do what they want but input from other players isn't useless). Says her claim could be one an SK or scum could make. Post #822: Weighs in on a post by Lightfoot (who asked if destroying Gotham was Town's goal), asks her if she forgot Town is composed of villains, then asks if she isn't a villain. Post #870: Asks Lightfoot to refer to town as town and scum as scum, and not use good guy/bad guy to increase clear communication between everyone. Post #904: Finds it odd Jan and Suburban Plankton were against acrostics but okay with confirming texcat via meta-ness due to PM structure. Post #905: Asks Ed if his PM suggests Batman is a godfather role/immune to investigation. Post #916: Says he can't draw any conclusions from Jan/Plankton's behavior regarding meta-gaming texcat's PM, but wants to note it was odd and inconsistent behavior. Post #959: Gets townie vibes from Hal, so he would prefer it if Hal wasn't going to be killed by Pleo. Would prefer an unknown to get killed, says he believes there's definitely some scum lurking on Day One. ---- Night OnePost #9: Calls Ed a son of a bitch. Post #81: Admits he voted for Texcat and kept his vote there, but says Pleo's actions (deciding to kill Ed) didn't factor into his vote for texcat. Ultimately he felt texcat was scummier than Pleo, but after her claim he was less sure but let his vote stand because there was a lack of other scum leads. *NOTE: This post contradicts Post #654 on Day One, where he says he's thinking about one or two other leads besides Texcat. Post #96: Feels Pleo's death doesn't have any bearing on Texcat's alignment: says she can still be an SK or scum. ----- Day TwoPost #57: Says he can easily see a do-gooder justification for Penguin. Post #59: Questions Jan, asks if she sees Hal powering up Pleo as a scummy move or just anti-town, and if she has any other suspicions. Post #102: Argues role names shouldn't be a null tell, because the color says Batman and fellow do-gooders have come back to save Gotham. Says we can't assume alignment based on role name, but can't assume it's meaningless either. Post #107: Notes if you read Lightfoot's posts as a person with a do-gooder name also being town, they make some sense. Post #120: Questions Meeko; Says his PM doesn't reference his name aside from the header, refers to him as "you." Post #289: Asks mahaloth about his opinions on Lightfoot's PM and whether he thinks it's a well-edited scum PM or a carefully worded PFK PM. Says he's leaning town on Lightfoot due to her discussion about names on Day One. Post #493: Votes for Drain Bead based on her being a possible recruiter due to her revealing she knew texcat wasn't a third party, and Nanook's claim. Post #495: Says he's waiting for the other shoe to drop: two dead scum and feels another just got outed, along with our supposed masonries and mahaloth becoming town, he's wondering what else the scum have up their sleeve. Night TwoPost #96: Requests to be subbed out due to business. Day ThreePost #100: Transforms into a coyote. Is also now female. Perhaps, quite possibly, a sister. Post #102: Notes she's trying to catch up, but there's a lot so it might be a while before she's useful. Post #131: Says texcat shouldn't announce her targets based on the possibility of scum having a redirector. Post #157: Thinks it shouldn't be safe to assume Town is all villains because our mod is smarter than that. Says she sees the case on pizza but also pizza's case on sinjin. Post #223: Says she isn't voting because she isn't sold on the pizza case. Post #233: Votes gnarlycharlie due to his weird post on Day One. Says it's the second line of his post that bothers her the most, not the last, and his obsession over Lightfoot's reference to his post makes her lean scum on him. Night ThreePost #85: Says just because she was wrong about pizza doesn't mean she was wrong about charlie. Is confused, thinks there's only one scum dead. Day FourSo far: Post #26: Against a mass claim. ------------------------------- Now my conclusions: Overall, I'm not entirely sure where to lean on Dirx the Coyote right now. Sis's actions of not voting for pizzaguy are suspicious, but her being confused about only one scum being dead is a little odd. She'd know how many scum were dead if she'd jumped in as scum, but on the other hand that could be an easy play to look more innocent. Dirx's actions were logical, but he wavers back and forth on a few subjects. He initially says he'd rather lynch Pleo outright because it would make him feel better, but is never opposed to leaving him alive for Vigging. Despite that, he keeps his vote on the claimed vig while wanting to leave Pleo alive for vigging. Also said he was going to check up on some other cases besides texcat, but never revisits that point and also says he didn't have another case besides texcat to switch his vote to. He also had a lot of direct interaction with Ed and pizzaguy...is that something he'd do as scum? I'm suspicious overall, but it's not biting at me as strongly as pizzaguy's behavior.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 16:23:39 GMT -5
I don't consider the Peeker/Gadrene pair as 'pretty well confirmed' anymore, with Peeker's clarification on his power, though I'm still leaning towards Town on Peeker and have not seen a reason to suspect Gadrene at this point. I also don't consider Nanook and Mahaloth as 'pretty well confirmed' either. And I'm not yet inclined to lean Town yet on either of them on their own merits. My view of the pile of stuff that is still unconfirmed: Peeker, Gadrene, (Nanook+Mahaloth), LightFoot, 3 number-bearing devices (and what significance, if any, does each device have aside from Pollux's counting down based on his votes?), and various people who are or aren't smelling kerosene (and what significance, if any, does smelling of the substance, not smelling the substance, or the substance itself have?) Ideally I'd like to see something solid about any of those things, and without something solid I'm not inclined to trust in them one way or another. None of the dead Townies from last night provided any such insight, thus my lament. It is not an especially strong lament, just that anything scummy that may or may not be left to fester in that pile of unconfirmed stuff concerns me. Your point about peeker and Gadarene is correct, as was also pointed out be SBrOwn. I didn't say that Nanook and mahaloth were 'pretty well confirmed'. I said that they could 'pretty much confirm each other', in that if either of them flips Town it strongly suggests that the other is Town as well; the same applies if one flips non-Town. True, it's not much help right now, but it may come in handy later. As for the kerosene smell...I think we have a Mad Bomber. You're correct, my sloppy quoting/paraphrase of your post. If a Mad Bomber is behind the kerosene, what's with the devices? PFK? Red Herrings? What makes you think that either one is more plausibly a scum/PFK power than the other, or do you think they're both valid? I neglected to put Idle in the unconfirmed pile. FWIW, I'm just as comfortable with lynching Nanook as I am with lynching Mahaloth, though that probably isn't going to go far in convincing him not to vote for me. Considering that I'm not voting for either Nanook or Mahaloth, just discussing their theoretical lynchings/deaths as a means of gathering information about the other, I'm still quite open to various other lynch candidates.
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Post by Pollux Oil on Mar 26, 2012 16:25:47 GMT -5
To everybody against the mass claim, keep in mind I'm pretty sure the mass name claim happened on Day Three of the original Arkham and that netted them the Joker because Santo didn't false claim. I don't think a mass name claim is a bad idea, except for the niggling suspicion of a Riddler-type role still being out there.
Either way, I think I'm going to do my claim soon because honestly, I'm not afraid of figuring out if this device is lethal or not. Since I'm the only one right now that has control over how the device counts down, I may just go ahead and claim and then count my device down to 0 if everyone is okay with that.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 16:28:16 GMT -5
NETA the kerosene or devices could be 3rd party or even some sort of funky Town powers too, I just doubt that they're both being wielded by the same faction, at least not the same original faction prior to any recruitment hijinks, should there be any afoot.
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Post by SBrOwn on Mar 26, 2012 16:35:03 GMT -5
Either way, I think I'm going to do my claim soon because honestly, I'm not afraid of figuring out if this device is lethal or not. Since I'm the only one right now that has control over how the device counts down, I may just go ahead and claim and then count my device down to 0 if everyone is okay with that. Are you saying, you're potentially willing to die toDay just to figure out if the rest of us are going to die? (-_- You're a braver dude than I am (for sure!) (still waiting on the bunnies)
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 16:36:23 GMT -5
I note on preview that Cookies is continuing to throw doubt on every single potential claim out there. Unsurprising really, and tips her into the lead over Bill in my mind. Vote: Cookies The claims on the table are all unconfirmed. They bring their own doubt by definition. Would you care to share reasoning as to why the rest of us should be any less skeptical of any of them? I'm all ears. Look, Ma! I managed to bleach a vote...
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 16:45:32 GMT -5
To everybody against the mass claim, keep in mind I'm pretty sure the mass name claim happened on Day Three of the original Arkham and that netted them the Joker because Santo didn't false claim. I don't think a mass name claim is a bad idea, except for the niggling suspicion of a Riddler-type role still being out there. Either way, I think I'm going to do my claim soon because honestly, I'm not afraid of figuring out if this device is lethal or not. Since I'm the only one right now that has control over how the device counts down, I may just go ahead and claim and then count my device down to 0 if everyone is okay with that. You seem to be assuming that the 'worst case scenario' with your device is that it kills you. If that were known to be the case, then 'taking one for the team' would be entirely up to you, I suppose...but it may not be as simple and straight-forward as all that. As for a mass claim, I'm categorically opposed to the idea.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 16:46:39 GMT -5
To everybody against the mass claim, keep in mind I'm pretty sure the mass name claim happened on Day Three of the original Arkham and that netted them the Joker because Santo didn't false claim. I don't think a mass name claim is a bad idea, except for the niggling suspicion of a Riddler-type role still being out there. Either way, I think I'm going to do my claim soon because honestly, I'm not afraid of figuring out if this device is lethal or not. Since I'm the only one right now that has control over how the device counts down, I may just go ahead and claim and then count my device down to 0 if everyone is okay with that. You're a brave man, but it makes sense and I for one would appreciate whatever insight your self-experiment might provide. A caveat to the idea of doing just a name claim, is that we also still have the acrostics so we could do a mass 'everything-except-redact-what-might-indicate-power-functions-or-vanillaness' claim and still potentially benefit from the acrostics. Though I still think that will be pretty easy for shaddy characters to avoid getting tripped up with, and it could still backfire if there were any Townie errors in the acrostics provided.
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 16:53:36 GMT -5
It also goes without saying that I join the chorus of folks wanting LightFoot's investigation results.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 16:57:15 GMT -5
I assume nothing happens, Suburban. Would you like me to actually ask the mod, though? Seemed to me to be pretty clear, that it's just a one shot thing. IMHO, anything more than just once would be too overpowered. And again, the way I read it, if I kill my attacker, how do they kill me? It looks obvious to me that if I'm successful, I live...and if I'm not, I don't. So where's your confusion over these things I seem to see as simple explained things? Hey, if it seems crystal clear to you, then that's great. If I had the role you claim, I would have had a question or three for story, but maybe that's just me. If you're happy, then more power to you. I think that Scum would bus Scum at any time, in any situation, if they thought it might be advantageous to them. And it's not like he voted you down the stretch to try and build a counter-wagon; his was the first vote of the Day (not counting SBrOwn's self vote/unvote), and his reasoning was 'I didn't like the timing of your claim'. You'll note that Pizza's vote was pretty much ignored by everyone at the time. It put you in absolutely no danger at all, so I'd say that 'Scum would definitely do that'. I do seem to have a natural distrust of you, don't I? I'm not sure what it is...maybe it's the way you part your hair...
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 26, 2012 17:01:07 GMT -5
To everybody against the mass claim, keep in mind I'm pretty sure the mass name claim happened on Day Three of the original Arkham and that netted them the Joker because Santo didn't false claim. I don't think a mass name claim is a bad idea, except for the niggling suspicion of a Riddler-type role still being out there. Either way, I think I'm going to do my claim soon because honestly, I'm not afraid of figuring out if this device is lethal or not. Since I'm the only one right now that has control over how the device counts down, I may just go ahead and claim and then count my device down to 0 if everyone is okay with that. You seem to be assuming that the 'worst case scenario' with your device is that it kills you. If that were known to be the case, then 'taking one for the team' would be entirely up to you, I suppose...but it may not be as simple and straight-forward as all that. As for a mass claim, I'm categorically opposed to the idea. I can see your point, but what if when a device-wearer dies of causes other than the device itself, nothing is revealed about the device? It may be that I feel the luxury of not being subject to blowing myself or others up, but we're back to the Town needing information, and right now the devices and whoever is planting them holds all the cards/remote detonators/harmless squirt guns/whathaveyou.
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Mar 26, 2012 17:06:23 GMT -5
If a Mad Bomber is behind the kerosene, what's with the devices? PFK? Red Herrings? What makes you think that either one is more plausibly a scum/PFK power than the other, or do you think they're both valid? I very much doubt that the Devices are each going to result in the wearer's death when they count down (or up) to zero, so I don't see them as a Mad Bomber device...but what effect(s) they will have is beyond me at this point. I keep coming around to some sort of Inventor sort of thing, but I can't figure out how that would plausibly function...
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