|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 11:00:50 GMT -5
TD's voting record looks fairly scummy if you consider him as a possible partner of Kat. His voting of CatInASuit is justified by his reasoning, but does tie up the vote with Kat (when she was previously ahead). Yeah I did and it did. I bought the busy excuse (be it real or constructed) and didn't want to see someone lynched for real life distractions. Lucky for us I was wrong. As far as the new name claim discussion goes, I'll support it, and suggest something as simple as a roll call. Make a list of players, let them claim, then cross them off the list or just add their claimed role name off to the side.
|
|
|
Post by zuma on Mar 24, 2008 11:01:49 GMT -5
I'm looking at beautiful women.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:04:33 GMT -5
Hello, paranoia, my old friend. So nice to see you, once again.
Hal, I'm just going to come out and say it. I don't believe you. Oh, I think you may have a real list of all the players in the game, but if you do, I think it has only 24 names on it, and I think it was given to the scum to facilitate fake name claims.
Let's go through this bit by bit:
#1 - Giving the list to a Townie makes no in-game sense. If the scum have pre-fab role names available to them, as you claim your list suggests, they would be absolute fools to claim anything else. The pre-fab role names would be guaranteed safe, not owned by any other player. Given that, in such a circumstance, no scum with half a brain would claim a name not on the list, giving a pro-Town player the list would be a huge waste of time.
#2 - You claim there were 36 names on your list. There were 24 players to start the game. That means that, according to your claim, fully half the players in this game were given fake role names. Since I don't believe for a moment that the anti-town factions in this game add up to half the players overall, this would imply that some pro-Town players were given fake role names, too. This makes absolutely no sense from a game standpoint.
#3 - It would make absolute sense, from a game standpoint, for the scum collective to be given a list of all the player names. Such a list would let them know what names from the canon were "safe" to claim. This would explain the odd delay leading up to Kat's role claim yesterDay a lot better then pre-fab role claims.
#4 - I'd just like to point out what a convenient claim this is, overall. Hal is "not allowed" to post the list (which I don't believe would be a sensical restriction, by the way), so we can't preconfirm the truth of what he's saying. There is no way he could be caught in a lie (well, there is one way to test his claim. Our Masons could test it. But they would have to agree to this).
The whole thing doesn't scan at all.
vote Hal Briston
And if any of the Masons want to test his claim and decide for sure if he's lying, please say so.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:05:56 GMT -5
Oh, and the above means I am now firmly on the side of no name claim, if only because I believe Hal is lying and I believe the reason he's lying is to get us to name claim. If the scum want it, I don't.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 11:06:13 GMT -5
So Rysto, were you trying to be deceitful? Or, did you actually not understand my reasoning? Your reasoning was -- and I quote -- "While nothing was obviously scummy, there was nothing obviously protown." I did not see that as a particularly compelling case myself. As to why I messed up the link, well, you did exactly the same thing when trying to link to my post. I don't know what mistake we both made but I guess it's not that hard to make. But, if you go down two posts, I Spell out my reasoningBut, yes, I see how easily that is to screw up. And while I didn't have anything rock solid on CAIS, I had more on him then anyone else at that point.
|
|
|
Post by zuma on Mar 24, 2008 11:07:45 GMT -5
I'll fulfill my mission.
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 11:12:35 GMT -5
Hello, paranoia, my old friend. So nice to see you, once again. Shit, I totally didn't even think of all of this. I'd bother with the FOS but I'm pretty sure Hal already has enough pressure on him to respond to this post. I am way too trusting sober.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 24, 2008 11:13:30 GMT -5
And if any of the Masons want to test his claim and decide for sure if he's lying, please say so. :coughs:how :coughs:do you :coughs:mean :coughs:to :coughs: test it?
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 11:15:18 GMT -5
Right...it just wouldn't be a game of Mafia if story and I weren't on the same side, and unable to realize it.
But by all means...masons, let's sit down, have a glass of water, and figure out the best way to test my claim.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:16:37 GMT -5
And if any of the Masons want to test his claim and decide for sure if he's lying, please say so. :coughs:how :coughs:do you :coughs:mean :coughs:to :coughs: test it? Actually, upon further reflection, my plan is useless if Hal actually has a list of anything, whether he's scum or not. But if he's just plain old, flat out lying, he could be caught in it by your (the Masons') role names. You have said that they are easily identifiable as a group, and that probably means that they're relatively generic. Which means that if Hal has a list, he could easily identify your role names and list them here. Again, that would only determine whether he has an actual list of any kind; the rest of my concern - that he's scum but has a real list of the 24 actual names used in the game - is not addressed by such a test.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 24, 2008 11:21:17 GMT -5
:coughs:how :coughs:do you :coughs:mean :coughs:to :coughs: test it? Actually, upon further reflection, my plan is useless if Hal actually has a list of anything, whether he's scum or not. But if he's just plain old, flat out lying, he could be caught in it by your (the Masons') role names. You have said that they are easily identifiable as a group, and that probably means that they're relatively generic. Which means that if Hal has a list, he could easily identify your role names and list them here. Again, that would only determine whether he has an actual list of any kind; the rest of my concern - that he's scum but has a real list of the 24 actual names used in the game - is not addressed by such a test. :coughs:Interesting. :coughs:Hal, without posting the actual names of the characters... :coughs: do you see such a group on your list :coughs:and can you tell me anything about them? Be as cryptic as you want to be, I know what I am looking for. :coughs:(Cryptic would be prefered actually)
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 11:21:36 GMT -5
#2 - You claim there were 36 names on your list. There were 24 players to start the game. That means that, according to your claim, fully half the players in this game were given fake role names. Since I don't believe for a moment that the anti-town factions in this game add up to half the players overall, this would imply that some pro-Town players were given fake role names, too. This makes absolutely no sense from a game standpoint. Well, an alternative explanation for this is that the mods don't want to telegraph the number of scum in the game, so they gave extra (unused) names. Pleonast did something similar in Conspiracy: the Witches, Werewolves and Cabal all had secret boards on Idle's masontalk forum. The member list was visible to anyone, though, so Pleo made something like 7 Werewolf accounts and 5 Cabal accounts so that we Witches couldn't look at the member list and see how many Werewolves or Cabalists there were(didn't work, because 2 wolf accounts and 2 Cabal accounts were never signed into, but he tried to conceal that info). So I could see Dio(who was a witch with me) doing something similar here. The rest of what you've said makes perfect sense, though.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 11:25:13 GMT -5
So here's the possible scenarios:
1) Story has something to hide and doesn't want Hal's list out. 2) Story is on our side and Hal is up to no good. 3)Story is paranoid and Hal is on our side.
Right now I gotta lean toward 2). I can see no upside to a name reveal for the town if there's 36 names on the list. But, the DoGooders might be quite interested to find out who is who.
If a name reveal were to make the mason group obvious, Hal should know who they are. I see no harm in Hal revealing the names of a number of Masons. NOT REAL NAMES - JUST THE PM'D BATMAN NAMES. So he shouldn't say something like NAF1138 is Henchman #4. He should say that four of the masons are named Henchman #4, Henchman #23, Henchman #12, and Henchman #42.
If NAF can confirm that those are the names of Masons, we have a winner.
On preview, I see that what I've said has already been addressed. But I think we need to do this. If Hal can't provide the Mason names, we know he's out to get us. If he can, well then we're not really out anything.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 11:27:26 GMT -5
Well, there was like 30 minutes before dusk when I posted that. I only looked at the vote posts. I didn't have time to read all five player's post histories. I'm glad you've brought this up, because I didn't think about it enough. The bandwagon against CIAS warrants close attention. I don't find brewha's vote suspicious. But the rest of it? Fully 4 people voted for no reason at all, and if memory serves, Kat was taking a lot of heat at the time. I'm going to look at all that again.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:27:30 GMT -5
#2 - You claim there were 36 names on your list. There were 24 players to start the game. That means that, according to your claim, fully half the players in this game were given fake role names. Since I don't believe for a moment that the anti-town factions in this game add up to half the players overall, this would imply that some pro-Town players were given fake role names, too. This makes absolutely no sense from a game standpoint. Well, an alternative explanation for this is that the mods don't want to telegraph the number of scum in the game, so they gave extra (unused) names. Pleonast did something similar in Conspiracy: the Witches, Werewolves and Cabal all had secret boards on Idle's masontalk forum. The member list was visible to anyone, though, so Pleo made something like 7 Werewolf accounts and 5 Cabal accounts so that we Witches couldn't look at the member list and see how many Werewolves or Cabalists there were(didn't work, because 2 wolf accounts and 2 Cabal accounts were never signed into, but he tried to conceal that info). So I could see Dio(who was a witch with me) doing something similar here. Except if they did that - if they gave Hal a list of 36 names, of which only some were in the game, then they've given him an even less useful tool. It would be utterly valueless - again, no scum or anti-Town player would ever claim anything but his or her mod-supplied safe name, and even if one DID, there would still be a chance he or she would pick one of the dummy names from Hal's list. The mods may be bastardly and they may not, but a "list of names that are in the game, except for some of them, that aren't, and no one has any motivation to give a role name that isn't on this list, so it's basically never going to come into play" is a device that I can't understand at all.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:29:44 GMT -5
...and in case no one's noticed in the hub-bub so far, zuma has apparently turned into Raymond Babbitt.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 11:32:19 GMT -5
Well, there was like 30 minutes before dusk when I posted that. I only looked at the vote posts. I didn't have time to read all five player's post histories. I'm glad you've brought this up, because I didn't think about it enough. The bandwagon against CIAS warrants close attention. I don't find brewha's vote suspicious. But the rest of it? Fully 4 people voted for no reason at all, and if memory serves, Kat was taking a lot of heat at the time. I'm going to look at all that again. Methinks you are on to something. This idea at least warrants some investigation. I'm going back to look at the people who voted with me.
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 11:33:18 GMT -5
#1 - Giving the list to a Townie makes no in-game sense. If the scum have pre-fab role names available to them, as you claim your list suggests, they would be absolute fools to claim anything else. The pre-fab role names would be guaranteed safe, not owned by any other player. Given that, in such a circumstance, no scum with half a brain would claim a name not on the list, giving a pro-Town player the list would be a huge waste of time. Exactly why would you be expecting any of this to make sense? Perhaps it is a huge waste of time. Perhaps there is an unknown mechanism in place that would make this of fantastic benefit to town, or a horrific mistake. Perhaps there's a good reason you're pulling a complete 180 from your usual play-style. I don't know, but to insist any of this should make sense? Might I remind you we're in a fricking asylum? Might I remind you (at great peril to my karma) exactly who we have running this show? And you want everything to make sense? #2 - You claim there were 36 names on your list. There were 24 players to start the game. That means that, according to your claim, fully half the players in this game were given fake role names. Since I don't believe for a moment that the anti-town factions in this game add up to half the players overall, this would imply that some pro-Town players were given fake role names, too. This makes absolutely no sense from a game standpoint. From my PM: "you will be given a list of ALL Possibly roles in the Game + Some unused ones+ some extra roles for fun". #3 - It would make absolute sense, from a game standpoint, for the scum collective to be given a list of all the player names. Such a list would let them know what names from the canon were "safe" to claim. This would explain the odd delay leading up to Kat's role claim yesterDay a lot better then pre-fab role claims. If that were the case, then there wouldn't have been an odd delay. Kat would have had the list and could have created her alibi role from the get-go. #4 - I'd just like to point out what a convenient claim this is, overall. Hal is "not allowed" to post the list (which I don't believe would be a sensical restriction, by the way), so we can't preconfirm the truth of what he's saying. There is no way he could be caught in a lie (well, there is one way to test his claim. Our Masons could test it. But they would have to agree to this). See my last post.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 11:33:44 GMT -5
...and in case no one's noticed in the hub-bub so far, zuma has apparently turned into Raymond Babbitt. I was wondering about that. I guess I figured he was drunk or something...definitely drunk... I'm a good driver... definitely a good driver...
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:36:15 GMT -5
Hal -
Are you able to answer NAF's question?
|
|
|
Post by Hal Briston on Mar 24, 2008 11:40:24 GMT -5
Hal, without posting the actual names of the characters... :coughs: do you see such a group on your list :coughs:and can you tell me anything about them? Aye, I do see such a group.
|
|
|
Post by NAF1138 on Mar 24, 2008 11:43:08 GMT -5
Hal, without posting the actual names of the characters... :coughs: do you see such a group on your list :coughs:and can you tell me anything about them? Aye, I do see such a group. :coughs:that's :coughs:good :coughs:enough :coughs:for :coughs:me.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 11:44:03 GMT -5
The bandwagon against CIAS warrants close attention. I don't find brewha's vote suspicious. But the rest of it? Fully 4 people voted for no reason at all, and if memory serves, Kat was taking a lot of heat at the time. I'm going to look at all that again. Alright, toward the end of the day, CIAS had five votes. Brewha - I know why I voted Darkcookies - I thought DarkCookies was a mason Hockeymonkey - CIAS voted for HockeyMonkey, so I could see this as a OMGUS vote TDPats - I got nothing Kat - scum So I could see TDPats, whose vote was completely baseless and Kat jumping on someone with a few votes to get attention away from Kat. Which looks good for CIAS's towniness.
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 11:44:46 GMT -5
Except if they did that - if they gave Hal a list of 36 names, of which only some were in the game, then they've given him an even less useful tool. Right, an official list like that, 12 names too long or not would lend some credibility to any supplied claims, real or fake. "Well, X claimed to be Y. Y is on the list!" How does it help the town? I guess it would force all the fake claims out... but that's about it. We'd still be no closer to figuring out who is really town and who isn't - the only card up our sleeve would be waiting for slip ups, which is basically what we're doing already - except the scum doesn't also have a list of names and roles. I guess I should say I don't think Hal is lying, but I'm not sure how to use the list in a reliably pro-town fashion. ...and in case no one's noticed in the hub-bub so far, zuma has apparently turned into Raymond Babbitt. I think we all noticed.
|
|
|
Post by storyteller0910 on Mar 24, 2008 11:46:11 GMT -5
Jesus, this game is going insane. I'm assuming that both NAF and zuma are now operating under posting restrictions, Hal is claiming to have a tool that can't possibly be of use to any pro-Town player, I don't understand anything.
My vote remains where it is, because NAF's confirmation notwithstanding I still think it more likely that a list of role names would be given to scum than to Town. Otherwise, though, I'm going to take a little break and come back in a few hours; my head is starting to hurt.
|
|
|
Post by Rysto on Mar 24, 2008 11:51:56 GMT -5
So I could see TDPats, whose vote was completely baseless and Kat jumping on someone with a few votes to get attention away from Kat. Which looks good for CIAS's towniness. Gah! This is exactly the kind of reasoning I was warning about yesterDay. There are two scum factions, so this looks good for CIAS not being a Do-Gooder. He could still be Playing For Keeps.
|
|
|
Post by brewha on Mar 24, 2008 12:01:07 GMT -5
Good point. I should have said that CIAS is less likely to be on the DoGooders team.
|
|
|
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Mar 24, 2008 12:02:22 GMT -5
The conflicting emotions...how they burn.
Very encouraging first Day/Night cycle for The Town. An expected claim from story that moves him into the category of being "as confirmed as possible as Town without a death reveal".
Very interesting information from Hal.
|
|
|
Post by tdpatriots12 on Mar 24, 2008 12:08:15 GMT -5
I stand by my vote of CIAS. Here's how I looked at my options late on Day 1: 1) No lynch. I think Town always has to lynch, but thankfully we never got into this arguments. But since I'm not a fan of it, I was trying to avoid it. 2) Vote Kat. Had a bit of scum on her, but the case against her wasn't blowing anyone's mind. Before this claim she had a grand total of 4 votes. Five if you think I should have picked her. Plus I had said earlier that I wasn't going to vote for someone I thought was legitimately busy on Day One. 3) Vote kassia, an option, but like Kat I wasn't convinced and hadn't made a self defense post. 4) Vote CIAS, an option, but like Kat I wasn't convinced. Unlike kassia made a self-defense vote. 5) Vote for some random person getting low numbers of votes. If the cases were at all convincing, they'd have more than 1-2 votes. A few people voted after Kat's claim, and one person voted for her, then unvoted, then voted for CIAS and that was hawkeyeop. I didn't want to toss my vote around all over the place so close to the deadline so I just sat back and waited for dusk.
|
|
Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
Posts: 371
[ Exalt | Smite ]
Karma:
|
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 24, 2008 12:14:41 GMT -5
Holy Fuck! Three pages already?
I had a reason to vote CIAS. I admitted it was a flimsy reason, and yes it did amount to mostly OMGUS, but it was really the only lead I had at the time. Now that we have a little bit more information to work with, the Day Two votes won't be as flimsy.
sinjin and NAF were both attacked and survived...YAY! NAF is now shark-proof. YAY? zuma does seem to be posting under a restriction now, but then again, drunk zuma posts some weird shit sometimes.
More later...I'm having a busy day at work.
|
|