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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 7:10:21 GMT -5
And following that I have just waded through all of Santo Rugger's posts.
Santo - You are being so townie, you are beginning to gleam. Put it this way, you are doing a hell of a job interacting with the other players, without actually doing anything.
In terms of post quantity, there is a lot. But the majority of his posts are either fluff or they are comments to other people or follow ups on other things people have said.
I get about 10 analysis posts out of 150 or so. Half of which involve using other games as reference. I'm not saying that's wrong, but a little more in game analysis would be preferred.
Santo Rugger, some in depth analysis of other players would be useful. Do you have any?
Would anyone else like to go back over Santo Rugger's posts and either confirm my suspicions or show me otherwise.
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 8:04:15 GMT -5
Right, I have now waded through Rysto's posts as well.
No posts by post summary again because there are far too many.
So what did I find. Well, IMHO, a good mixture of fluff, comment and above all proper detailed analysis of people in the game. His arguments against tdpatriots and atarus are backed up with good reasoning. Yes, there were a couple of scummy moments in there eg. witholding Drain Bead's name, but I would expect that from a townie player. The explanations themselves also made sense to me.
If I compare Santo Rugger and Rysto ,it makes me think they are playing two different games here.
One is looking to analyse and find the scum, the other is looking to be as townie as possible.
In Summary: Rysto gets a Townie thumbs up from me.
Next Hawkeyeop
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 8:06:04 GMT -5
<snip> Santo Rugger - you mentioned this earlier on, but one thing concerns me slightly. Assumption: sinjin is a pro-town role. If Batman had attacked sinjin, then sinjin would be able to call out Batman the next Day and get him lynched. This would leave the rest of the Do-Gooders without anyone to carry out their Night kills. Effectively this would turn the scum group into a mason group reliant on engineering Day lynches to win. I don't think this is very likely, can you explain further? Sorry, I can't explain farther, I can only speculate. My guess would be that the ability to kill passes down the line, so that Robin could kill when Batman dies, etc. Those are the only two roles I know are Do Gooders, though. I also think Batman may not be able to be identified by a role such as sinjin's, because he's uber stealth, but again, that's just pure speculation.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 8:26:30 GMT -5
I really don't know how to reply to that, CatInA, other than by saying that's just my style. I'm trying to provoke conversation, and get people talking and putting ideas on the table. After they're out there, I've been trying to find the flaws in them and fine tune said ideas into something viable we can use. IMHO, there's not a lot of solid analysis to be done on Day 2. On the other hand, I very strongly think that in future Days, coming back to Day 1 and 2 are very powerful tools that we'll be able to use knowing what we've learned from the game and start putting the pieces together. Granted, Rysto and I have different styles, but that doesn't really say anything as to our respective alignments.
I would like to argue, though, that I have said some pretty controversial stuff, and I'm pretty darn sure that more than 10 of my posts have been analytical in nature.
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 8:36:44 GMT -5
I would like to argue, though, that I have said some pretty controversial stuff, and I'm pretty darn sure that more than 10 of my posts have been analytical in nature. It may be just your play style that is bugging me, and we probably differ in what we describe as analysis, but you are looking exceedingly more like you are making friends and not analysing. For instance, to me, the majority of your analysis was done against Cookies citing Firefly and building role claims. Thats about it. This is why I want someone else to go back over your posts and confirm or not what I am thinking. And as for you being Batman, I would not put it past you
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 8:42:30 GMT -5
IMHO, there's not a lot of solid analysis to be done on Day 2. I will point out that this line is crap. There are loads of pieces of analysis that can be done on Day 2. Hell, I figured out most of Blade Runner on Day 2. It is not that different in this game. Quit stalling Santo Rugger, there is plenty going on, and you are smart enough to see it.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 9:03:52 GMT -5
IMHO, there's not a lot of solid analysis to be done on Day 2. I will point out that this line is crap. There are loads of pieces of analysis that can be done on Day 2. Hell, I figured out most of Blade Runner on Day 2. It is not that different in this game. Quit stalling Santo Rugger, there is plenty going on, and you are smart enough to see it. Hell, if you've figured out most of this game, please, please explain it to me. Sure, there's analysis to be done, but note the word solid in there. Considering your "case" against sinjin, I think we can agree that the analysis done up to this point hasn't been exactly solid. What analysis can we do? Why you killed sinjin? You still haven't given us an honest answer. Why Kat was lynched? While I'll concede that there's a lot of stuff that went on, scum could have either voted for Kat to try and gain town creed for the future, or tried to steer the lynch away from her. I've never been the type of analytical player that goes through an entire player's postings to try and glean information. Heck, I often times skip over post summaries done, because I have no idea of the bias of the poster. So, even though my play style may bug you, that doesn't mean that you should go around trying to kill people for what I think are nefarious reasons.
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 9:20:01 GMT -5
Ok, Hawkeyeops posts and then I am taking a break for a while.
Post by post for Hawkeyeop
Day 1: #1: Does not like lynching lurkers, also does not favour a mass name reveal #2: States we cannot assume Masons are on our side. #3: States alleged Masons could be a police scum group #4: States there is a group called "Playing for Keeps" #5: Analysis of what the scum might do on Day 1. Votes ryjae over his off the wall theory #6: Considers Hal's use of the wikipedia lists less suspicious #7: Votes for Dio #8: States we should be careful about lynching individuals for bad logic #9: States he voted for ryjae before checking back, but don't take it personally. #10: States he will vote for the scummiest regardless #11: States he is skimming thread to try and keep up. #12: Comment on modkill vs lynch #13: States people should vote for scummiest again. #14: Does not find ryjae's reveal compelling, votes Kat citing inability to claim means she doesn't have one #15: Unvotes Kat due to role claim #16: fluff #17: fluff #18: Votes CIAS saying "Please don't hold it against me either, but I'm voting for a vig yet and I find the case against Kassia uncompelling "
Day 2: #1: Comment on Hoopy Frood's scenarios for Kat's claim #2: fluff #3: Considers his previous Days vote incorrect #4: Votes CIAS citing explanation not forthcoming. Considers CIAS more likely to be Do-Gooder than PFK #5: Considers CIAS either a pro-town killer or anti-town killer. #6: Question to Hockey Monkey #7: Assumes all killers are not pro-town, burden is on CIAS to prove otherwise #8: Wants to know why CIAS attempted to off sinjin #9: Says CIAS does not have to be aligned with Kat to be scum. #10: Comments that everyone tries to look townie. Wants reasons from CIAS why he thought sinjin was pretending. #11: Does not doubt CIAS is a killer, but doubts alignment #12: Comment on proving CIAS' power #13. Comments that there are likely more scum with killing abilities than town. #14: Question to CIAS re night kill being optional #15: fluff
Only one post stands out for me personally among all of this. His last post on Day 1. I personally do not understand what he knows or how he knows, but I am interested
Apart from that, he did not vote for the scummiest at the end, despite his earlier comments and was asking CIAS not to take it personally.
So, Hawkeyeop, some explanation please.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 9:30:39 GMT -5
Umm, Kat claimed to be a Vig, which is why Hawkeyeop would have said he* wasn't voting for a Vig yet. It seems surprising to me that the "real" Vig wouldn't remember that. Of course, I've been wrong on that count before (see Pleo in the China game), but I still think it's odd that it would have completely slipped your mind. Especially since you were (I hope!) looking at the players posts along with all the rest of them, so that they would be in context?
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 9:34:24 GMT -5
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 9:42:44 GMT -5
Hell, if you've figured out most of this game, please, please explain it to me. Sure, there's analysis to be done, but note the word solid in there. Considering your "case" against sinjin, I think we can agree that the analysis done up to this point hasn't been exactly solid. Not yet, but at least I'm working on it instead of sitting on my hands waiting for someone to give it me on a plate. There is so much stuff to wade through it's difficult to come up with a clear picture. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try. I'm probably going to be lynched by the scum and those town who hate pro-town killers, so I may as well do what I can to get some analysis done. I honestly wasn't expecting to live this long anyway What analysis can we do? Why you killed sinjin? You still haven't given us an honest answer. Why Kat was lynched? While I'll concede that there's a lot of stuff that went on, scum could have either voted for Kat to try and gain town creed for the future, or tried to steer the lynch away from her. I've never been the type of analytical player that goes through an entire player's postings to try and glean information. Heck, I often times skip over post summaries done, because I have no idea of the bias of the poster. What analysis can we do? Is that it. Ok, Here's a challenge for you. Give me some reasoning of the voters on me, Kat and kassia at the end of Day 1 of which were likely scum trying to get town cred and which ones do you think where trying to save her. And I want your reasoning, not a rehash of molefan's piece at the start of the Day. Post summaries are only useful to a point. But they are useful. So, even though my play style may bug you, that doesn't mean that you should go around trying to kill people for what I think are nefarious reasons. I would never dream of carrying out the action you suggest I should. I like to have at least some reasoning behind what I am doing, however shoddy. At least there is something there me to look at and try and work out what I did right or what I did wrong. Besides, who is playing this role, me or you. You play your way, I'll play mine.
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Post by Hawkmod on Mar 27, 2008 9:43:46 GMT -5
Ok, Hawkeyeops posts and then I am taking a break for a while. Post by post for HawkeyeopDay 1: #1: Does not like lynching lurkers, also does not favour a mass name reveal #2: States we cannot assume Masons are on our side. #3: States alleged Masons could be a police scum group #4: States there is a group called "Playing for Keeps" #5: Analysis of what the scum might do on Day 1. Votes ryjae over his off the wall theory #6: Considers Hal's use of the wikipedia lists less suspicious #7: Votes for Dio#8: States we should be careful about lynching individuals for bad logic #9: States he voted for ryjae before checking back, but don't take it personally. #10: States he will vote for the scummiest regardless #11: States he is skimming thread to try and keep up. #12: Comment on modkill vs lynch #13: States people should vote for scummiest again. #14: Does not find ryjae's reveal compelling, votes Kat citing inability to claim means she doesn't have one #15: Unvotes Kat due to role claim #16: fluff #17: fluff #18: Votes CIAS saying "Please don't hold it against me either, but I'm voting for a vig yet and I find the case against Kassia uncompelling "Day 2:#1: Comment on Hoopy Frood's scenarios for Kat's claim #2: fluff #3: Considers his previous Days vote incorrect #4: Votes CIAS citing explanation not forthcoming. Considers CIAS more likely to be Do-Gooder than PFK #5: Considers CIAS either a pro-town killer or anti-town killer. #6: Question to Hockey Monkey#7: Assumes all killers are not pro-town, burden is on CIAS to prove otherwise #8: Wants to know why CIAS attempted to off sinjin#9: Says CIAS does not have to be aligned with Kat to be scum. #10: Comments that everyone tries to look townie. Wants reasons from CIAS why he thought sinjin was pretending. #11: Does not doubt CIAS is a killer, but doubts alignment #12: Comment on proving CIAS' power #13. Comments that there are likely more scum with killing abilities than town. #14: Question to CIAS re night kill being optional #15: fluff Only one post stands out for me personally among all of this. His last post on Day 1. I personally do not understand what he knows or how he knows, but I am interested Apart from that, he did not vote for the scummiest at the end, despite his earlier comments and was asking CIAS not to take it personally. So, Hawkeyeop, some explanation please. What Santo said. If I had more time, I might have left the vote on Kat. In retrospect, her claim wasn't very believable. But there was like two minutes left at that point, not enough time to analyze her claim, so I decided to play it safe.
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Post by Hawkmod on Mar 27, 2008 9:44:51 GMT -5
Cat,
Can you answer my question of whether your nightly kills are mandatory?
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 9:48:10 GMT -5
Umm, Kat claimed to be a Vig, which is why Hawkeyeop would have said he* wasn't voting for a Vig yet. It seems surprising to me that the "real" Vig wouldn't remember that. Of course, I've been wrong on that count before (see Pleo in the China game), but I still think it's odd that it would have completely slipped your mind. Especially since you were (I hope!) looking at the players posts along with all the rest of them, so that they would be in context? I wasn't around at the very end of Day (aka 1am my time, I was fast asleep) and this is the first time I have gone through hawkeyeop's posts in detail. That's why it caught my eye. If it really is just a missed "not" then that's fine and understandable. Of course, it doesn't help with the following Day when he says that he is assuming all killers are not pro-town. Why don't we let hawkeyeop answer for himself?
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Post by CatInASuit on Mar 27, 2008 9:54:51 GMT -5
Cat, Can you answer my question of whether your nightly kills are mandatory? You can always ask Cookies when I can read to her. #27
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Post by NAF1138 on Mar 27, 2008 10:00:28 GMT -5
This is probably going to be very non chronological, but here are some responses: NAF in 517: I understand that may have not been your point. If that's the case, please quell conversation on B and R not being scum, and I'll stay mum on Masons not having win conditions parallel to mine. Deal? Deal, and allow me to rephrase my point is a slightly less obscure way. Voting for Cat because he may or may not be Hush is fucking stupid. Voting for anyone based purely on their color is fucking stupid. Taking color into consideration could potentially be smart, but using color as the sole basis for voting or clearing someone is fucking stupid. Carry on.
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Post by Hawkmod on Mar 27, 2008 10:15:51 GMT -5
Umm, Kat claimed to be a Vig, which is why Hawkeyeop would have said he* wasn't voting for a Vig yet. It seems surprising to me that the "real" Vig wouldn't remember that. Of course, I've been wrong on that count before (see Pleo in the China game), but I still think it's odd that it would have completely slipped your mind. Especially since you were (I hope!) looking at the players posts along with all the rest of them, so that they would be in context? I wasn't around at the very end of Day (aka 1am my time, I was fast asleep) and this is the first time I have gone through hawkeyeop's posts in detail. That's why it caught my eye. If it really is just a missed "not" then that's fine and understandable. Of course, it doesn't help with the following Day when he says that he is assuming all killers are not pro-town. Why don't we let hawkeyeop answer for himself? I don't assume killers are scum. I think, especially in this game, they are more likely to be scum than town. Therefore I put the burden of proof on them. However, Vigs are valuable (at least if they don't have to kill), and Kat, unlike you, did not have a kill that needed explaining. That is the crux of it I think, I just don't buy your reasoning for offing Sinjin. Given more time I might of come up with a different conclusion on voting for Kat, but my quick reaction then was to give her more time to explain herself.
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 10:19:30 GMT -5
You know what? I don't give a shit anymore. I lose my powers today and tonight. Fuck the post restriction. These games now bore the shit out of me. I am now completely and totally bored with Mafia. I am going to enter each and every fucking mafia game I can find and then quit this shit forever after I FUCKING WIN ONE. This game is fucked and fuck you all. How the fuck can you go a fucking year and 6 fucking games and NOT FUCKING WIN ONE OF THEM.
Well, if we win this at least I'll never have to play another fucking mafia game again. Fuck the post restriction and whatever I don't fucking care. vote me out, I don't give a shit, at least I'll maybe win one for a change.
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 10:23:10 GMT -5
And fuck this, I'm getting into whatever that sdmb game is as a sub. I don't care anymore... I'm doing the shotgun approach at this point.
And frankly Catina, I said before the game that if I were a vig I'd vig my own ass. You should do the same.
vote:Cat[/color]
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 27, 2008 10:25:40 GMT -5
Ummm...just to answer preemptively, no, Johnny Torch isn't on the list.
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Post by Hockey Monkey! on Mar 27, 2008 10:26:05 GMT -5
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 10:30:41 GMT -5
Ummm...just to answer preemptively, no, Johnny Torch isn't on the list. Ooh, you're so fucking silly.
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Post by Hal Briston on Mar 27, 2008 10:33:18 GMT -5
That out of the way, I wanted to address Darth's earlier question, and anyone else asking for confirmations from my list: And on a different note, to Hal, any of the following on your list? Oracle Mad Hatter Ra's Al Ghul Red Hood While I'm fine with revealing who is on the list, I think we should first make a definite decision one way or another about name reveals. The whole NAF/GWS thing makes it seem to me that there might be a value to name reveal, but that value gets diluted every time I confirm or deny a name as being on the list. Tabling it for a Day or two is always an option, but until we decisively say that we will or will not be doing an organized mass name reveal, I'm going to hold off from making these confirmations.
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Post by brewha on Mar 27, 2008 10:38:53 GMT -5
This game is fucked and fuck you all. [oog] Fuck Me? Well, that's seems a bit uneccesary. Maybe you need to back away from the computer for awhile and get some air - maybe fill up on the meds while your out there. and, while I'm out of game mode, does anyone know what the stars and descriptions under our names mean? It turns out I'm a 10star most uncool, dude - I have no idea what to make of that. [/oog]
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 10:39:26 GMT -5
Fuck you, Hal. "That out of the way"
bah.
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Santo Rugger
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The Obviously Innocent Townie
The Rugger formerly known as Pygmy[on:BYAHH!][of:BYAHH?]
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 10:39:52 GMT -5
Not yet, but at least I'm working on it instead of sitting on my hands waiting for someone to give it me on a plate. There is so much stuff to wade through it's difficult to come up with a clear picture. Doesn't mean I'm not going to try. Look, just because I haven't gone back and done a reread doesn't mean I'm sitting on my hands not doing jack. I play this game without notes and without extensive rereads. I make mental notes of things I think are important (like the fact that Kat claimed to be a Vig). You say you figured out BladeRunner by this time in that game. Why haven't you figured this one out yet? I didn't figure out BladeRunner until I was dead; up until that point there were things I didn't know, and was trying to figure out. You saying you figured that game out at this point is a blatant lie. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty darn sure you had no idea about the speculators until the first one ( kassia died. My point is that we're going to be getting a whole lot more information, and when we have said information, it will be a whole lot easier to put all the pieces together. And, seriously, how the hell can you imply that I'm not trying to figure this game out? No, that's not it, jackass. There was a whole flippin' paragraph after that that gave examples of what kind of analysis could be done. Don't mangle my words, it's not prudent. I'm glad that we know what scum wants Look, my point was that we don't know what said reasons were. If we did, this game would be an open and shut case. There's about nine or ten people who can tell you with certainty who was doing what and why (the four or so remaining scum, the mods, the dead players, and whoever's been spoiled), so, no, I can't tell you which is which Ugh. How can you say "You play your wan, I'll play mine,", when you're trying to tell me what to analyze and how to do it? For the record, I actually do think that that's a great idea, but I think it's a bit premature. Scum are not stupid, and I very seriously doubt they all acted the same way on Day 1. Tomorrow, when patterns start to emerge, it will be more useful. The next Day, it will be even more useful. I do think you're right, the Kat votes and non votes should be closely scrutinized. I'm just not sure that doing so at this time will yield useful (solid) results. Feel free to prove me wrong. And, most importantly, if you thought sinjin was so scummy, why didn't you, I don't know, SAY SOMETHING about it Yesterday?
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Post by brewha on Mar 27, 2008 10:40:51 GMT -5
NETA Fuck! I meant you're not your I hate it when that happens.
And, of course, as soon as I mention it I go back down to a 1 star henchman.
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Santo Rugger
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 10:41:32 GMT -5
Can a mod kindly fix the third quote there? That's actually what I said, not a quote.
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Post by zuma on Mar 27, 2008 10:44:00 GMT -5
[oog] Fuck Me? Well, that's seems a bit uneccesary. Maybe you need to back away from the computer for awhile and get some air - maybe fill up on the meds while your out there. Oh yes, what meds do you recommend I fill up on? Are you just being a dick online or are you actually one?
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Post by Santo Rugger on Mar 27, 2008 10:44:49 GMT -5
I can't tell if zuma is serious or not, but it's cracking me up. Yo, zuma, what, specifically, was your restriction?
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