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Day 1
Oct 31, 2009 10:29:21 GMT -5
Post by shaggy on Oct 31, 2009 10:29:21 GMT -5
How about the border style game where you place 3 votes and that one game where the scum won cause there were 2 3rd place votes on me, they came in at the last minute and did 2 number 1 votes and with the 3rd place ones, were enough to force a lynch and win. Now this game is not like that at all, but it does show, we have no clue what will happen and so you do have to be causious when doing things, cause it could come back to bite us in the ass. Borda count voting opens a whole new can of worms. If you have to put votes on three players to get one vote to count, you also have to watch the second and third votes to make sure they don't upset your applecart. I remember in the Borda vote games I've played that, if I decided I wanted to vote one player, I was careful to place my second and third votes on people who (a) had little or no chance of being lynched instead, and (b) weren't me. I paid careful attention to who was being affected by positional changes, though, just in case. Thgis game is somewhat different, as there is only the traditional one vote. I just dislike placing a vote on myself. What happens if I do that, then suddenly get a job and can't post during the week? We'd wind up with me voting for myself and unable to do anything about it. No, if you must vote early, vote someone you are suspicious of. But don't vote yourself unless you actually want to be lynched. Oh yeah I know this is not the borda system and so it is differant just trying to make a point...in this case since the votes seem to still be lingering in the night time...since they reset at the start of the next day...similar in theory to those previous games, we need to really think about where we place our votes, cause we may at the time think not much of it, but latter down the road suddenly realize that the vote we placed has come back to haunt us. To me I think we really need to put some thought into the vote...atleast in my opinion here. Cause and I hope this never happens but what happens if something in RL causes you not to come back, then your vote on your self is there till morning. And we have no idea why they are there after the day ends or if that even means anything, but it is something I think we need to keep in the back of our minds. Whether there is a role that can fubar the votes, or giving scum a nice case of bad voting to help get a miss-lynch...I think voting is a thing that needs some good consideration and not rushed into. So yes I agree with you, if you vote early, I think as well, we should be voting for someone we think is suspicious.
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Day 1
Oct 31, 2009 15:04:37 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Oct 31, 2009 15:04:37 GMT -5
Vote Count
Current Status: Chucara Lynch.
Chucara (3) Special Ed (1) Pleonast (1) Idle Thoughts (1) Natlaw (1) pedescribe (1) Guy Incognito (1) BillMc (1)
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 15:05:00 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 1, 2009 15:05:00 GMT -5
Vote Count
Current Status: Chucara Lynch.
Chucara (3) Special Ed (1) Pleonast (1) Idle Thoughts (1) Natlaw (1) pedescribe (1) Guy Incognito (1) BillMc (1)
Tick, tock, tick, tock...
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 16:34:05 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 1, 2009 16:34:05 GMT -5
Not a lot to go on. What bothers me the most at this point is still pede's approach. He's attacked Pleo for acting Town and defended Chucara for acting in an anti-Town fashion.
Pede then came back and indicated that he meant the tone of Pleo's post 61 was what struck him as grandstanding as a Townie. I've re-read post 61, and it doesn't look like grandstanding. I see some discussion about game set-up and then some responses to various posts on the Idle/Pleo discussion.
This isn't the strongest case so far, Especially given the apparent lack of obvious Scum motivation for pede's actions. Why would a Scum pede be pressing a Pleo lynch over a Chucara lynch? Unless Chucara's Scum it doesn't make much sense. Although, perhaps he was just trying to express an opinion and picked a really bad one? I'm not sure, but while Chucara has acted ant-Town as well, my scumdar pings a little more with pede's actions.
Chucara, it's getting closer to the time where you might actually have to claim. I'm not suggesting you do now, but keep it in mind.
Vote: Pedescribe
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 17:29:17 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 17:29:17 GMT -5
Pede then came back and indicated that he meant the tone of Pleo's post 61 was what struck him as grandstanding as a Townie. I've re-read post 61, and it doesn't look like grandstanding. I see some discussion about game set-up and then some responses to various posts on the Idle/Pleo discussion. I acknowledge that: a) tone is subjective, therefore I can understand you seeing it different than me and b) tone is subjective, therefore I'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone beyond what I've already done. Therefore, I drop it. I know it has no ingame effect, but for symbolical reasons: Unvote: Pleo
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 17:35:25 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 17:35:25 GMT -5
...and defended Chucara for acting in an anti-Town fashion. Incorrect. What I actually did was object to the idea that we should attack anyone who even suggests the possibility of claiming. And I do object to that idea. Truisims like that are ridiculously large blinders that allow Scum to induce mislynches easily while getting off scot-free. The fact that Chucara was the one talking about thinking about claiming is irrelevant to my point.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 17:40:09 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 1, 2009 17:40:09 GMT -5
...and defended Chucara for acting in an anti-Town fashion. Incorrect. What I actually did was object to the idea that we should attack anyone who even suggests the possibility of claiming. And I do object to that idea. Truisims like that are ridiculously large blinders that allow Scum to induce mislynches easily while getting off scot-free. The fact that Chucara was the one talking about thinking about claiming is irrelevant to my point. OK, that makes sense. I'm hoping that we get a little more participation. I know it's the weekend, but it's been a long Day. I hate to see it end with a flurry, especially since the Day will end while I'm at work. BUt we do have almost 3 days left, I suppose
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 17:50:00 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 17:50:00 GMT -5
In the middle of a reread: Odd. If the record is effectively erased at Dusk when someone gets lynched, then disappears for good at Dawn, what is the point of votes remaining in-between? It's not as erased as it seems? There's some mechanism that makes use of that record? Or is it just more data? For some reason, the topic was dropped and hasn't really been addressed. But I think this is important. I think that, until we have reason to suspect think differently, we should assume that the votes at Night matter. As such, if something happens during the Night that causes you to be incredibly suspicious of someone, or not suspicious of someone that you were suspicious of, move your vote! Even if it's Night.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:04:30 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:04:30 GMT -5
What do you want me to elaborate? I placed an illfounded vote on Ed to get the conversation started. I have not removed said vote as I see no better target... He admitted that his vote on Ed is illfounded, yet he also said that there are no better targets, yet he hadn't ever talked about those other targets. He also says that he did it to "get the conversation started" as though that is a martyr-worthy goal. It isn't. Not on Day 1, where discussion can erupt from pretty much anywhere. So far, the Chuc case looks solid from my perspective.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:08:34 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:08:34 GMT -5
Wow - what a lot of posts - this could be a very long Day The topic is done for me in the way that I don't think Ed needs to (or can) defend the vote from me anymore. I'm not the boss of mafia, so you are free to do what you want. (I thought that much was obvious, but apparently not)This comment did strike me as a little strange - an odd choice of words. Looking for town cred? obviously not mafia? Not much to go on, but it's what has pinged me the most. Vote: Chucura [/color] I'm somewhat inclined to agree with Pleo's comments on voting. The inability to unvote is going to make it rather interesting when someone is on the hook and then claims - so folk will need to switch votes rather than unvote.[/quote] This, however, I found rather specious. Many of us refer to the game itself as 'mafia'. I haven't checked as to whether or not Chucara is one of those people (and if he isn't, then that is a valid point) but twisting "I'm not the boss of mafia, so you are free to do what you want" into "I'm not the boss of the mafia (i.e. the scum), so you are free to do what you want" looks more like a misunderstanding on Bill's part than a valid case. FOS on Bill.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:10:58 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:10:58 GMT -5
Wow - what a lot of posts - this could be a very long Day This comment did strike me as a little strange - an odd choice of words. Looking for town cred? obviously not mafia? Not much to go on, but it's what has pinged me the most. Vote: Chucura [/color] I'm somewhat inclined to agree with Pleo's comments on voting. The inability to unvote is going to make it rather interesting when someone is on the hook and then claims - so folk will need to switch votes rather than unvote.[/quote] I'm not following.. How am I looking for townie cred? I feel like I'm being lynched for speaking my opinion here, something I think is very bad for town. Once again I ask: How does any of this make sense if I am scum? Why would scum want to get this much attention? I was defending/explaning a statement I had made earlier. This one just reeks of scum jumping a bandwagon. Therefore: Vote: BillMc[/color] Not for voting for me, which is fair enough, but this is the point where scum IMO would jump in to secure a lynch. I will claim if I have to (I don't want it to be too late in the day), but I'd prefer not to so far.[/quote] This is pretty much exactly what I said. At this point, keep in mind, Chuc was the lynch leader. As such, I don't find his mentioning the possibility of claiming suspicious, since it looks to me like he's asking for opinions on whether or not he should.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:17:57 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:17:57 GMT -5
I did it mostly because I wanted to get rid of the suspicion on me as early as possible, so other people could get in the limelight... Now there's a perfect example of tonal suspicion. The bare sentiment (I did [what I did] to clear my name) is neutral, but the phrasing is very scummy. Scum are primarily concerned about ridding themselves of suspicion. Scum want to stay out of the light. Town, yes, want that too. But if this was written by a townie, it would sound more like: 'I did it in order to get people to stop voting for me so we can get someone who's actually dangerous.' or something along those lines. There are also logical problems with the statement. A claim is a big thing. If you do it, you're going to draw attention to yourself. It makes little sense for Chuc to claim to avoid suspicion. Which means he has some other reason for it, which is scummy.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:20:20 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:20:20 GMT -5
I can't quite put my finger on it, but the statement "I'm not the boss of mafia, so you are free to do what you want. (I thought that much was obvious, but apparently not)" just doesn't seem right. It's a weird thing to say - no one accused Chucara of being the boss - so why state he isn't. Add to that the claim comment in response to the vote - with so much time left in the day he's in no danger of being lynched and a claim would be premature - so why threaten it? Just feels wrong. I'm still very suspicious of Bill though. This is a very suspicious way of making a point--why bring something up if you can't back it up? We can't think what you are thinking if you cannot enunciate it, and to not enunciate it but still harp on it is a way of building, or hopping on a bandwagon without evidence. And yes, I am aware that that was what I was doing. That's why I stopped doing it.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:22:38 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 18:22:38 GMT -5
Hmm...I want to vote for one of the two...
Vote: BillMC
Because he's got fewer votes at the moment. Voting for Chuc makes Bill not an option, which I don't want.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 18:56:00 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Nov 1, 2009 18:56:00 GMT -5
He admitted that his vote on Ed is illfounded, yet he also said that there are no better targets, yet he hadn't ever talked about those other targets. He also says that he did it to "get the conversation started" as though that is a martyr-worthy goal. It isn't. Not on Day 1, where discussion can erupt from pretty much anywhere. So far, the Chuc case looks solid from my perspective. followed with Because he's got fewer votes at the moment. Voting for Chuc makes Bill not an option, which I don't want. so the case, in your opinion, against chuc looks "solid". so you will vote for bill because he has less votes. ok, maybe too much sugar last night but i am not sure that i am following this at all.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 20:20:29 GMT -5
Post by Trepa Mayfield on Nov 1, 2009 20:20:29 GMT -5
He admitted that his vote on Ed is illfounded, yet he also said that there are no better targets, yet he hadn't ever talked about those other targets. He also says that he did it to "get the conversation started" as though that is a martyr-worthy goal. It isn't. Not on Day 1, where discussion can erupt from pretty much anywhere. So far, the Chuc case looks solid from my perspective. followed with Because he's got fewer votes at the moment. Voting for Chuc makes Bill not an option, which I don't want. so the case, in your opinion, against chuc looks "solid". so you will vote for bill because he has less votes. ok, maybe too much sugar last night but i am not sure that i am following this at all. I find both of them highly suspicious. I laid out my cases for both. I'm not sure which one is right, so I'm voting for Bill so that he's not shut out of the running.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 20:22:26 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Nov 1, 2009 20:22:26 GMT -5
Sorry for the long delay in posting.
1) I do not understand how Idle could have possibly misinterpreted the Chucara/Doom Cow posts at the start of the Day. I also think he tried to stifle the discussion about it with his little threat.
2) I'm not liking Pede's coming down on Pleo for self-voting and acting townie. I also don't like that he is voting BillMc instead of Chucara only because Bill has fewer votes right now.
3) I totally don't like Chucara's actions this Day. He votes for Ed for a spurious reason and a fluffy reason, but the fluffy one was only a joke. When called on his spurious reason, he then claims he only voted for Ed to get a reaction. He then says he still thinks Ed is still the most scummy so far so his votes is going to stay. His story seems to change with the wind. Then he comes out with a soft claim, but also warns that scum aren't going to take him out because town will do it eventually. Building up a case for why a soft-claiming power role manages to survive the night?
Vote: Chucara
Pede can you explain what you mean by this:
I am not following that logic at all.
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Day 1
Nov 1, 2009 21:21:58 GMT -5
Post by special on Nov 1, 2009 21:21:58 GMT -5
In the middle of a reread: Odd. If the record is effectively erased at Dusk when someone gets lynched, then disappears for good at Dawn, what is the point of votes remaining in-between? It's not as erased as it seems? There's some mechanism that makes use of that record? Or is it just more data? For some reason, the topic was dropped and hasn't really been addressed. But I think this is important. I think that, until we have reason to suspect think differently, we should assume that the votes at Night matter. As such, if something happens during the Night that causes you to be incredibly suspicious of someone, or not suspicious of someone that you were suspicious of, move your vote! Even if it's Night. 4. Voting You may vote to lynch another player by using the now familiar vote CatInASuit construction. However, once your vote is active, it is active until the following Dawn. You cannot unvote, only vote for another unlynched player. Whoever has the most votes at the time a game Day ends will be lynched. Only one person can be lynched at end of Day. If two or more players have an equal number of votes, there will be no Lynch. Votes are reset at the start of each Day. bolding mine. It seems clear that your vote is active until the following Dawn. While that does imply that your vote is active at Night, I'm not sure what that would accomplish, as it's clear that a lynch will occur at the end of Day. I think it is to imply that your vote is de-activated at Dawn, so if you don't vote again the following Day, you won't have a vote registered will votes that are active at Night have any impact on the gameplay?
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Chucara
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 3:15:38 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 2, 2009 3:15:38 GMT -5
Well, looks like Day one is drawing to an end. And as I am still vote leader, I will make good of my soft claim.
I am Spike, Passenger and Vote Switcher. I will prove my power by activating it. You obviously have no way of knowing that I'm not a scum vote switcher, so you will have to lynch me eventually, which is what I said earlier.
vote chucara vote BillMc (Above needed to activate ability)
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 3:17:30 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 2, 2009 3:17:30 GMT -5
Egads.. I'lll just try again with blue.
vote: chucara vote: BillMc
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 4:19:33 GMT -5
Post by CatInASuit on Nov 2, 2009 4:19:33 GMT -5
will votes that are active at Night have any impact on the gameplay? [/color][/quote] No comment.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 5:29:33 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 2, 2009 5:29:33 GMT -5
Chucara, please clarify how your ability works.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 6:13:57 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 2, 2009 6:13:57 GMT -5
Chucara, please clarify how your ability works. Whenever I vote, I can change the vote of another person. I can do this only once per day. Therefore, I had to vote to change BillMc's vote.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 7:39:58 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 2, 2009 7:39:58 GMT -5
OK, so I totally thought I'd have tons of Internet access in Heidelberg, but the filters and walls are different in our German offices and I had no real ability to check this site. I'm REALLY sorry, but it looks like I didn't even miss the entire of Day One. I will read and respond today, promise, and sorry to Cat and everyone involved for vanishing.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 7:53:16 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 2, 2009 7:53:16 GMT -5
I really haven't seen a good start to a game that wasn't just blind luck on behalf of town, so I'm not sure there is a surefire way to get us off to a good start. Reading and commenting as I go, because there's no other good way to get started when you've missed six pages of action. Just want to say that the above is not true. Just working from memory, and only counting games I've played, I can think of at least two games - Arkham Asylum and the original Psychopath - where Town lynched Scum Day One on the basis of good play and not blind luck. I am always suspicious of players who go to this well early - "hey, we probably won't get Scum unless we get lucky because it's only Day One" - because it offers a sanctuary for Scum, giving them an excuse to play sloppy.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 8:06:19 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 2, 2009 8:06:19 GMT -5
Chucara, just in case a vote count is not forthcoming, can you explain in more detail? How will your action change the vote count, exactly?
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 8:09:57 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 2, 2009 8:09:57 GMT -5
OK, sorry for the quadruple post, but:
On initial read, my suspicions lie with pedescribe and BillMc, in that order. I will vote for neither of them yet; I will go back and read both of their contributions more carefully, and return with a vote, almost surely for one or the other, before lunch time.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 9:15:04 GMT -5
Post by Renata on Nov 2, 2009 9:15:04 GMT -5
Okay, we still have two whole days to go, plus some hours? I've managed to keep up with the thread more or less over the weekend, but will be out all day again today, which means probably no analysis or vote until tomorrow morning.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 9:33:27 GMT -5
Post by Chucara on Nov 2, 2009 9:33:27 GMT -5
Chucara, just in case a vote count is not forthcoming, can you explain in more detail? How will your action change the vote count, exactly? BillMc will not be voting for me, he will be voting for himself. I'm rusty as mafia, but I think this is usually called a politician? In my PM, it's simply a vote switcher.
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Day 1
Nov 2, 2009 9:52:12 GMT -5
Post by storyteller0910 on Nov 2, 2009 9:52:12 GMT -5
BillMc will not be voting for me, he will be voting for himself. I'm rusty as mafia, but I think this is usually called a politician? In my PM, it's simply a vote switcher. This would be a powerful role for Scum, yes? In essence, its existence in the hands of Scum is worth a half mislynch. If the Scum win condition is some variant on "controlling the vote," the existence of a Scum vote switcher (not just a vote charger) would allow the Scum to win the game not only when there is a tie, but when there are more Town then Scum. Right? Posit two remaining Scum, three remaining Town, with Chucara's role as described on the Scum side. That's game over. Chucara and fellow Scum vote as a block for one of the Townies, then Chucara switches the target Townie's vote to himself (ie, to the target Townie). Scum win. That is very powerful in Scum hands. I'd be willing to revisit the issue as we learn more about the setup, but for now I consider it more likely that this power, if it exists in this game, would be given to a Townie. Accordingly, assuming Chucara's power works as demonstrated, I would consider him a very poor choice for a lynch toDay, and will vote to avoid it if I can.
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