Hockey Monkey!
Borogrove
This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 14:55:27 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Sept 20, 2010 14:55:27 GMT -5
What's this? No blood spatter for me to analyze? Damn. I mean, oh good, no one died. :-P
I'm at work right now and this is the first chance I've had to check in today. Hopefully I can manage some meaningful analysis this evening.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:02:40 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 20, 2010 15:02:40 GMT -5
I have issues with your wording here Buddy. Do you mind if I call you Buddy? I can put you together with Shadowthrone; you can discuss the god thing. I'm sure he'd have some illuminating things to say about the nature of self-sacrifice, heehee. Anyway. Compulsory vig is an AWFUL place for mafia to hide, all else being equal. It gets you vigged by the real vig, if there is one. It might get you "vigged" by the serial killer, if there is one, so that player can pretend to be the vig. And sooner or later (probably sooner) you are likely to die to a jumpy town, regardless. And that's not even to mention that unless there is a very strange game setup (like in Heroes on Giraffe, where we actually had a scum SK and the potential for two kills per night), you can't even follow through on producing the requisite bodies. Might a mafia claim that, despite the down sides? Sure. Is it a *good* claim, a good place for them to hide? Absolutely not. Which is just to say that your statement was more superficial than it looked, if you did not think about the comment but just casually tossed it out there. I don't like it, heehee. When do you ever like what I have to say? At this point, you have to consider you thinking I'm Scummy as a null tell, since you think it regardless of whether or not I'm Town. I love reading forbidden threads that you're in after I'm out of games, just to find the point where you started thinking I was Scum. I think you and I are looking at this differently. My thought was it was a good fake claim at the time because a) Doctor was "taken", and b) it would possibly get enough people to unvote. Because really, not dying is the main goal for Scum--Town shouldn't particularly care, especially if anything can be gained by one's death. And if he or one of his teammates happened to be the one with the mass block, the discussion the following Day might be diverted just enough that the heat on him would dissipate a bit. You're sort of ignoring the potential of coordination and teamwork, or a well-balanced SK role with additional powers. You also seem to be ignoring the counterclaim--or do you think it's plausible that there are two Town vigs in the game? At worst, we're working on a one-for-one here, and if we sacrifice a compulsory vig to get a Scum or SK, that's a trade I'll make every time. Your idea that the SK would "vig" a vig to try to pretend to be the vig is a bit laughable, BTW--wouldn't the death reveal preclude that cunning plan? "Um, yeah, I know the mods said he was the Vig, but really I'm the Vig, which is why I killed him!" So all in all, I think the claim was a better fake claim than you do. FWIW, I am getting somewhat suspicious of Maniac because of the two posts in which he makes mention of your lack of roleclaim yesterday. I'm sure that if you were in the lead late in the Day, you would have claimed, but there was no damn need for it as far as I saw. This stinks of a fishing attempt. Mmmmmm, fishy. Okay. I realized after the fact that I accidentally included spoilers to another game, so I'm editing my post to avoid that sentence. I will take whatever punishment I am given.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:07:04 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 15:07:04 GMT -5
What's this? No blood spatter for me to analyze? Damn. I mean, oh good, no one died. :-P I'm at work right now and this is the first chance I've had to check in today. Hopefully I can manage some meaningful analysis this evening. That would be nice. I keep feeling like nobody has been able to manage any so far...
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:12:23 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 20, 2010 15:12:23 GMT -5
Okay. I sent a PM to blockey and reported my post to the mod. I am now waiting for the lightning to strike me dead.
It's really weird being on the other side of this for once.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:20:34 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 15:20:34 GMT -5
Okay. I sent a PM to blockey and reported my post to the mod. I am now waiting for the lightning to strike me dead. It's really weird being on the other side of this for once. Don't worry...I'm thinking a three-day ban, and then you'll be back just like nothing ever happened
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:40:16 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 15:40:16 GMT -5
I've been trying to figure out what we might be able to really learn from last night's lack of activity, because if there's nothing new to be gained there, then it's going to be a long week reshashing the arguments from Yesterday...
So what do we know? There was a mass roleblock. And yes, i am discounting the possibility that there were multiple successful roleblocks and/or multiple people who chose not to use their Powers.
So what does that tell us? Not a lot, it seems. there are four possible causes for this action:
Scum initiated action Town initiated action Third-party initiated action Automatic action based on the person being targeted
There's been some discussion on the relative merits of some of these possiblities, but I'm still not seeing the usefulness of any of the first three. Sure, I can envision how a mass roleblock could be very useful under certain circumstances, but not on Night 1. Without having even a poorly-educated guess as to who the Power roles are, I have a hard time seeing anyone being paranoid enough at this early stage to take that step, not when it can be a great deal more effective later on.
No, I think that this was an automatic reaction to the person being targeted for a kill last night. Note that this possibility never even occurred to me before someone mentioned it being used in an earlier game, but nothing else seems to fit here. And if that is the case, then the list of people who could have 'used' this power is fairly short.
Me (because I was targeted by Dr. Raj) My target Scum's target
I'm going to assume that there is not a Serial Killer in the game in addition to two Vigilantes, but if there is there might be a fourth target.
Now, it's doubtful that the Scum will tell us who they targeted last night (though it sure would be a big help if one of them wants to volunteer), but I could divulge the name of my target. I won't do so now because I'm not convinced there is anything for the Town to gain from it, but I thought I'd throw it out there. It would be another data point, but I have to leave it up to someone more savvy than me to say whether or not the data would be useful.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:43:44 GMT -5
Post by Mister Blockey on Sept 20, 2010 15:43:44 GMT -5
Okay. I sent a PM to blockey and reported my post to the mod. I am now waiting for the lightning to strike me dead. It's really weird being on the other side of this for once. STRIKES BUDDY CHRIST WITH LIGHTNING
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 15:54:57 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 15:54:57 GMT -5
STRIKES BUDDY CHRIST WITH LIGHTNING If it suddenly turns dark and the curtains start ripping in two, I'm outta here...
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:01:57 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Sept 20, 2010 16:01:57 GMT -5
Meeko: You're right, I forgot to mention redirectors in my recent post. I did, however, have a post on Day 1 about the different kinds of redirectors, showing that only one of the three main types can effectively hijack a vigilante a la the Alpha Centauri game.* We don't even know if scum have a redirector at all, much less what kind it would be. I was honestly waiting to see what dead bodies turned up this morning, and hearing whether or not Stay Puft owned up to one of them. If he'd said that's not who he targetted, then there'd be reason to think there might be a redirector,** and then I'd consider lynching him.
*Actually, now that I remember it, weren't we able to redirect SisC only because we knew she was targetting herself? The way our redirector worked, we couldn't just say "Redirect SisC from whatever target she picked onto this new target." It had to be "Whoever is targetting Bob is now targetting Alice." So, even then, we got real lucky. Just knowing she was a compulsive vig wasn't enough.
**For the sake of being thorough: Other likely possibility: he was roleblocked, and the kills were performed by other roles. Or: he's a lying scum or SK.
I'm not willing to jump on the bandwagon yet, based on the two-vigs "problem." One is voluntary, with diminishing returns. I think we'd see rather few kills from that role. This is balanced out by a compulsive vig, who presumably can continue producing kills without problem. Even more balanced if he becomes remorseful after killing a townie (or threshhold of townies). Still more balanced if there are multiple protective/blocking roles out there. And keep in mind that we started with 25 players. That's on the larger end of games, and it shouldn't be that unusual to have a few extra kills in one like this. I honestly feel like you guys are jumping the gun a bit here.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:25:09 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 20, 2010 16:25:09 GMT -5
*Actually, now that I remember it, weren't we able to redirect SisC only because we knew she was targetting herself? The way our redirector worked, we couldn't just say "Redirect SisC from whatever target she picked onto this new target." It had to be "Whoever is targetting Bob is now targetting Alice." So, even then, we got real lucky. Just knowing she was a compulsive vig wasn't enough. As I recall, she wasn't a compulsive Vig, but a regretful one. So once she killed Town she had to target herself. I try to to think of that game. I try really hard not to think of that game! I try really really really hard not to think of that game. I don't like you anymore
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:27:26 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Sept 20, 2010 16:27:26 GMT -5
Well, yes, but she essentially became compulsive (with only herself as the target) once she triggered the regretful part.
Either way, it doesn't really change the argument.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:27:52 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Sept 20, 2010 16:27:52 GMT -5
Also, you never liked me. Admit it.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:31:26 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 20, 2010 16:31:26 GMT -5
-+--Clarification requested from Dr. Rajesh Why not keep silent and try to kill again the following Night? Why claim so early Today instead of a bit later as it just causes a wagon on Puft and not probably not much else? Did you see Mr Stay Puft's claim Yesterday at all? If yes, why no comment on it? I could have stayed quiet and tried again toNight, but I felt lynching him might be the best course of action. It's quite possible that he is a NightKill immune Serial Killer (is that plausible? Trying to NK him triggers an AllBlock?) I claimed early toDay because this isn't a normal Day 2. We have basically no real information. We didn't have much useful conversation yesterDay either. I hoped this might both spark some conversation and get rid of a bad guy. Already we've seen that not everyone is jumping on the bandwagon. There might be useful data to gather. (And besides, I'm impulsive and I can't shake hands with girls especially) YesterDay, I saw Stay-Puft's claim and decided that my best course of action was to try to kill him at Night. I did that. It didn't work so well. There was no need for me to comment on it, I was planning on killing him.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:32:23 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 20, 2010 16:32:23 GMT -5
Also, you never liked me. Admit it. No, I really did, until I looked at the data and saw that you managed to steal a victory from me in every game you played in (and probably some that you didn't)
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 16:57:10 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 20, 2010 16:57:10 GMT -5
Also, you never liked me. Admit it. but i have trout.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 17:03:43 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 20, 2010 17:03:43 GMT -5
I could have stayed quiet and tried again toNight, but I felt lynching him might be the best course of action. It's quite possible that he is a NightKill immune Serial Killer (is that plausible? Trying to NK him triggers an AllBlock?) <snipped> i think blockey gave up on the nyquil a while back.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 17:14:03 GMT -5
Post by Paulwhoisaghost on Sept 20, 2010 17:14:03 GMT -5
Meeko: You're right, I forgot to mention redirectors in my recent post. I did, however, have a post on Day 1 about the different kinds of redirectors, showing that only one of the three main types can effectively hijack a vigilante a la the Alpha Centauri game.* We don't even know if scum have a redirector at all, much less what kind it would be. I was honestly waiting to see what dead bodies turned up this morning, and hearing whether or not Stay Puft owned up to one of them. If he'd said that's not who he targetted, then there'd be reason to think there might be a redirector,** and then I'd consider lynching him. *Actually, now that I remember it, weren't we able to redirect SisC only because we knew she was targetting herself? The way our redirector worked, we couldn't just say "Redirect SisC from whatever target she picked onto this new target." It had to be "Whoever is targetting Bob is now targetting Alice." So, even then, we got real lucky. Just knowing she was a compulsive vig wasn't enough. **For the sake of being thorough: Other likely possibility: he was roleblocked, and the kills were performed by other roles. Or: he's a lying scum or SK. I'm not willing to jump on the bandwagon yet, based on the two-vigs "problem." One is voluntary, with diminishing returns. I think we'd see rather few kills from that role. This is balanced out by a compulsive vig, who presumably can continue producing kills without problem. Even more balanced if he becomes remorseful after killing a townie (or threshhold of townies). Still more balanced if there are multiple protective/blocking roles out there. And keep in mind that we started with 25 players. That's on the larger end of games, and it shouldn't be that unusual to have a few extra kills in one like this. I honestly feel like you guys are jumping the gun a bit here. Chitter chitter.... ::a lightbulb appears over Meeko's head:: Little Indian Girl: Meeko just realized that you are correct Det. Columbo. The situations are not the same. And the only way that scum would be able to utilize this compulsive vig is if they had a redirector that swapped a players target to someone new. So while there is still a possibility of that, it isn't as possible as Meeko had originally thought. Unvote: Staypuft
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
Posts: 2,474
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:22:57 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 20, 2010 19:22:57 GMT -5
::: The party members hear a door crash open, followed by footsteps as if someone was running. Someone is indeed running, right into the main room.... and there he goes.... :::
Wow. That was scary, I'm not sure if it was a dream, or real life. Just the thought that someone would have locked me in a pit of scorpions, and just leaf me like that, ...to die!
I just wish I could have seen my face. I can't imagine what the face of scared mime would look like. Double white?
I'm out now, it took so long in escaping that it felt like a day to me, but... it's only been four hours?!
I could have sworn it was longer than that.
---
::: Mimes being out of breath. Which is a peculair thing to mime. You try it. As he catches his breah, he raises a finger :::
No one died last night? Thats a good thing, right?
Except now we got more vigs? Thankfully that one's not compulsory.
I asked if we could Vote for Death, but did not get an answer.
Would be interesting if the party were all vanilla. No knowlege on this, but it does not disagree with the fact that "Death" comes in from time to time.
I hate that we have more vigs in the game. But, it looks like the one we needed to take out yesterday is still the main prospect.
Vote StayPlankton.
Yesterday sucked for us. No sir, I would not like another.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:41:14 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 20, 2010 19:41:14 GMT -5
Would be interesting if the party were all vanilla. No knowlege on this, but it does not disagree with the fact that "Death" comes in from time to time. Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees. Smudging all three? Say moosie fate! Say moosie fate! Pit of scorpions?
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:45:57 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 19:45:57 GMT -5
I hate that we have more vigs in the game. But, it looks like the one we needed to take out yesterday is still the main prospect. Vote StayPlankton.Yesterday sucked for us. No sir, I would not like another.
So you believe that StayPuft is a town comp vig, but you want to lynch him anyway. In what universe do you live? Is there any light at all in your little box? Maybe you should poke some air holes in there. We need to hunt scum NOT kill people we think are town with undesirable powers.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:54:15 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 19:54:15 GMT -5
And what the hell* is this? Are you claiming vanilla? *Recall, I'm a big sister and I'm pissed every single day all the time, reminder that I'm playing in character for those not paying attention. I won't bite your face off in real life.....maybe.......on my good days.......ok Tuesdays.....in months that end in Y. PAY attention!!!! In other news, I'm not vanilla. Double chocolate mocha all the way, babes.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:55:01 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 20, 2010 19:55:01 GMT -5
My hunch at this point is to set aside both vig claims for now and look elsewhere. Marcel's reaction to the thought of leaving Puft alive kinda sticks out at me from yesterday, but is a null tell in the grand scheme considering what I know of Marcel's perceptions in other games. There will have to be something more for me to consider him suspicious. However, I just had to go back and revisit a post on this page that had also stuck out at me in catching up on the game: What's this? No blood spatter for me to analyze? Damn. I mean, oh good, no one died. :-P I'm at work right now and this is the first chance I've had to check in today. Hopefully I can manage some meaningful analysis this evening. That would be nice. I keep feeling like nobody has been able to manage any so far... This may have been a tongue-in-cheek statement by Puft, but if it was not meant in jest then I'm quite interested in hearing him elaborate. Maybe he's just anxious for some other players to be in the hot seat so he's not so hot himself (I happen to prefer a brown toasting for my marshmallows, as opposed to full flambe myself). The fact that he was not lynched seems to speak against the conclusion of the post (people analyzing his claim and choosing to keep him alive). I'm also quite curious to know what sort of analysis he feels is missing considering we don't have much to analyze beyond Day 1 votes (high noise to signal ratio), three Day 1 claims, and one early Day 2 claim.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 19:56:55 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Sept 20, 2010 19:56:55 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused. <font style="font-size: 12px;">::: The party members hear a door crash open, followed by footsteps as if someone was running. Someone is indeed running, right into the main room.... and there he goes.... ::: Wow. That was scary, I'm not sure if it was a dream, or real life. Just the thought that someone would have locked me in a pit of scorpions, and just leaf me like that, ...to die! I just wish I could have seen my face. I can't imagine what the face of scared mime would look like. Double white? I'm out now, it took so long in escaping that it felt like a day to me, but... it's only been four hours?! I could have sworn it was longer than that. --- ::: Mimes being out of breath. Which is a peculair thing to mime. You try it. As he catches his breah, he raises a finger ::: No one died last night? Thats a good thing, right? Except now we got more vigs? Thankfully that one's not compulsory. I asked if we could Vote for Death, but did not get an answer.
Would be interesting if the party were all vanilla. No knowlege on this, but it does not disagree with the fact that "Death" comes in from time to time. I hate that we have more vigs in the game. But, it looks like the one we needed to take out yesterday is still the main prospect. Vote StayPlankton.Yesterday sucked for us. No sir, I would not like another.
I don't follow. Are you suggesting everyone is vanilla (so do you think everyone who's claimed is lying)? And how does Death coming into the game thread support this? Or are you suggesting that Death, along with MHaye and Mister Blockey are all vanilla? Which makes even less sense. <font style="font-size: 12px;"> Would be interesting if the party were all vanilla. No knowlege on this, but it does not disagree with the fact that "Death" comes in from time to time. Veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery interesting, yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees. Smudging all three? Say moosie fate! Say moosie fate! Pit of scorpions? Smudging who three? The moderators? Can you even smudge mods? By the way, Marcel, please to be addressing the concerns raised against you earlier in this thread (and again just now by Eleanor) about your desire to kill vigilantes. Also, same question to Dexter Morgan (I asked basically the same thing Yesterday).
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:14:32 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 20:14:32 GMT -5
I believe that Gir! is suggesting that Marcel is smudging the three people who have claimed non-vanilla.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:16:33 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 20:16:33 GMT -5
NETA: Which is stupid considering that our first lynch was a Town, non-vanilla player.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:30:50 GMT -5
Post by Pollux Oil on Sept 20, 2010 20:30:50 GMT -5
I asked if we could Vote for Death, but did not get an answer. you can vote for Death. it won't do anything. but you can vote for Death.
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Meeko
FGM
I raccoon it's time to play Mafia
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:31:16 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 20, 2010 20:31:16 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused. I don't follow. Are you suggesting everyone is vanilla (so do you think everyone who's claimed is lying)? And how does Death coming into the game thread support this? Or are you suggesting that Death, along with MHaye and Mister Blockey are all vanilla? Which makes even less sense. By the way, Marcel, please to be addressing the concerns raised against you earlier in this thread (and again just now by Eleanor) about your desire to kill vigilantes. Also, same question to Dexter Morgan (I asked basically the same thing Yesterday). ::: Offers as if to speak, then pulls back, thinks, and tries again ::: I still have my post restriction. You can look to the end of the end of Day 1 for proof here. I was mentioned by name to go into Blockey's office. Suffice to say I have served my posting penance. I pre-wrote my first post after the penance. Lots of things to say, and I wanted to get back into this game running. I get lost with my own thoughts at times. ADHD and the Internet do not mix. You go to check your email, and end up reading 3 news stories, and close your browser, neglecting your email. Corrected to say : What if everyone in the game is TOWN. [That is, there is no scum] I was just speculating that there could be no scum in this game, that we are all a uniform group of sheep lead to the slaughter. In my haste, and in my mind, I substituted "vanilla", the default term for a group of town instead of capital T Town. As to why I don't like Vigs : It's down to simple math. To say nothing of the fact that Townies die in the process. Having Vigs alive early game hurt town more than scum. I don't see why we would want to blame the symptom and nourish the cause. I would rather lynch a vig, than risk a mislynch on another town. Why do you want townies to die in multiples beyond a single lynch? But you can't guarantee that. And I guess that's my point.
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Gir!
FGM
EVIL Demon Goddess Mod
What? Kat is sweet and innocent!
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:32:21 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 20, 2010 20:32:21 GMT -5
Stoopit as what it's responding to.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:38:02 GMT -5
Post by special on Sept 20, 2010 20:38:02 GMT -5
Wait, Marcel's stance makes sense in one way.
Think about this. How many of us have promised ourselves that we'd kill Meeko if we ever were given a Vig role or commented that it's a most pro-Town thing to do if you're a Vig? I know I have more than once. Of course he has a healthy fear of Vigs.
Of course, it mostly makes sense because he argues for blatantly anti-Town moves.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:44:14 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 20:44:14 GMT -5
Stoopit as what it's responding to. Can I have some more information please? I'm missing the point.
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