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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:51:02 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 20:51:02 GMT -5
However, I just had to go back and revisit a post on this page that had also stuck out at me in catching up on the game: That would be nice. I keep feeling like nobody has been able to manage any so far... This may have been a tongue-in-cheek statement by Puft, but if it was not meant in jest then I'm quite interested in hearing him elaborate. Maybe he's just anxious for some other players to be in the hot seat so he's not so hot himself (I happen to prefer a brown toasting for my marshmallows, as opposed to full flambe myself). The fact that he was not lynched seems to speak against the conclusion of the post (people analyzing his claim and choosing to keep him alive). I'm also quite curious to know what sort of analysis he feels is missing considering we don't have much to analyze beyond Day 1 votes (high noise to signal ratio), three Day 1 claims, and one early Day 2 claim. That was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek, but I was also half serious, but not exactly for the reason you supposed. It was more a reaction to the fact that we seem to be stuck in Day 1 (Take 2)...we have the same information we had at the end of the day yesterday, and everyone seems (or seemed at the time I wrote that) to be more or less settling into the same state of mind they had yesterday. As for what analysis I feel is missing? I wish I could give you a good answer. You pointed out the problem yourself: we don't have much to analyze. That's not anyone's fault, and I wasn't trying to call anyone out for faulty analysis. Though it occurs to me that there must certainly be some amount of faulty analysis going on, ad if we can spot it, it will lead us directly to Scum. If Dexter can swoop in and provide that analysis, I'll take back all the bad things I've been thinking about him for being mostly non-participatory. Yes, that was a smudge, but I think he deserves it. Other than popping in a couple of times to say "I don't really have anything to say at this point" he hasn't had much to say. That doesn't mean he's scum, but it does mean I wouldn't mind seeing a bit of analysis from him.
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Gir!
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:52:52 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 20, 2010 20:52:52 GMT -5
84 -> 87
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:56:35 GMT -5
Post by Dirx on Sept 20, 2010 20:56:35 GMT -5
OK, I'm confused. I don't follow. Are you suggesting everyone is vanilla (so do you think everyone who's claimed is lying)? And how does Death coming into the game thread support this? Or are you suggesting that Death, along with MHaye and Mister Blockey are all vanilla? Which makes even less sense. By the way, Marcel, please to be addressing the concerns raised against you earlier in this thread (and again just now by Eleanor) about your desire to kill vigilantes. Also, same question to Dexter Morgan (I asked basically the same thing Yesterday). ::: Offers as if to speak, then pulls back, thinks, and tries again ::: I still have my post restriction. You can look to the end of the end of Day 1 for proof here. I was mentioned by name to go into Blockey's office. Suffice to say I have served my posting penance. I pre-wrote my first post after the penance. Lots of things to say, and I wanted to get back into this game running. I get lost with my own thoughts at times. ADHD and the Internet do not mix. You go to check your email, and end up reading 3 news stories, and close your browser, neglecting your email. Corrected to say : What if everyone in the game is TOWN. [That is, there is no scum] I was just speculating that there could be no scum in this game, that we are all a uniform group of sheep lead to the slaughter. In my haste, and in my mind, I substituted "vanilla", the default term for a group of town instead of capital T Town. As to why I don't like Vigs : It's down to simple math. To say nothing of the fact that Townies die in the process. Having Vigs alive early game hurt town more than scum. I don't see why we would want to blame the symptom and nourish the cause. I would rather lynch a vig, than risk a mislynch on another town. Why do you want townies to die in multiples beyond a single lynch? But you can't guarantee that. And I guess that's my point. Understood on the vanilla/town thing. Makes sense now. I very strongly doubt it's the case, though, unless this were some kind of super-secret bastard game. Which I also very strongly doubt, even without Death's post, above. As for the Vig: so, my points regarding how important a vigilante can be later in the game? Or that their detriment to town early on really isn't very bad? You want to do math? Let's do math. 24 players going into Night 1. We can guess that there's maybe 4 or 5 non-Town players (scum and/or other parties). A purely random kill will have a 17-21% chance of hitting said non-Town. 20% is 1 in 5. Not really terrible, and that's just random. Get a player who knows what they're doing, and the odds increase: scum often lurk, so going after a low poster might work. Going after the second-place lynch candidate often works as well, given that scum might have rushed a new bandwagon to save one of their own. Sometimes the vig will have a good read on who's acting fishy, or maybe just have a good hunch (I got lucky with a kill when I was a vig). Vigilantes, even compulsive ones, are not the scourge you seem to believe.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 20:59:40 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 20, 2010 20:59:40 GMT -5
In a game with no Scum, how do you win? Or lose, for that matter.
Daddy bless you, Buddy
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:03:05 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 21:03:05 GMT -5
I'm going to have to jump in and defend Marcel just a little bit here. His reason for voting me seems to be:
Vigilantes are A Very Bad Thing, so they should be lynched early and often.
To his credit, he hasn't wavered from this position, and he hasn't offered any other reason for voting me since I made my claim. Needless to say, I don't agree with his position, but I can understand it.
I do think it would be A Very Good thing, however; if Marcel would spend a bit of his time trying to find the Bad Guys rather than just complaining that the Town isn't killing me on principle.
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Meeko
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:04:51 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 20, 2010 21:04:51 GMT -5
In a game with no Scum, how do you win? Or lose, for that matter. Daddy bless you, Buddy :: Points to " Death " Points up the air :: Talk to Mod. He would know more about this "" world "" than I would. .... Then again, aren't you two related? ;D [[No Smudge intended]]
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:10:49 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 21:10:49 GMT -5
Oh bullshit*. Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I don't have that much time in my life. Vote Gir for appearing to contribute without actually contributing anything of substance. * this is my favorite word in this game. Get over it.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:21:28 GMT -5
Post by Suburban Plankton on Sept 20, 2010 21:21:28 GMT -5
Oh bullshit*. Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I don't have that much time in my life. Vote Gir for appearing to contribute without actually contributing anything of substance. * this is my favorite word in this game. Get over it. I think I may be able to translate here. What it means is that Post 87 was in response to Post 84 (to answer the question posed in Post 89). I think it was actually an attempt on Gir!'s part to provide the requested information. It appears the attempt was only partially successful.
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Hockey Monkey!
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This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker over who killed who.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:26:43 GMT -5
Post by Hockey Monkey! on Sept 20, 2010 21:26:43 GMT -5
I knew there was something I forgot. My stance on compulsory vigs comes from personal experience as one. I've also been a non-compulsory one and even those aren't great to have around because "hey neato, I can kill people and I have this awesome power and I want to use it" syndrome. I feel that they are better off dead because of the early tendency to off townies. A non-compulsory vig can be helpful in endgame when there are some confirmed folks, but getting to that point is very costly. I haven't changed my mind on that and probably never will.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 21:27:58 GMT -5
Post by sinjin on Sept 20, 2010 21:27:58 GMT -5
Oh bullshit*. Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I don't have that much time in my life. Vote Gir for appearing to contribute without actually contributing anything of substance. * this is my favorite word in this game. Get over it. I think I may be able to translate here. What it means is that Post 87 was in response to Post 84 (to answer the question posed in Post 89). I think it was actually an attempt on Gir!'s part to provide the requested information. It appears the attempt was only partially successful. Yah, I got that but I don't know what it means. Bah! unvote it's Monday, I have a sore throat and it's Monday.
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Gir!
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 22:14:39 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 20, 2010 22:14:39 GMT -5
Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I got chocolate bubblegum!
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Meeko
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 22:50:26 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 20, 2010 22:50:26 GMT -5
Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I don't have that much time in my life. ::: Looks at Gir! and then looks at a Orange Blob of slime he is pretty sure he has seen somewhere before ::: Uhm, hi there, did you .... leave that? ::points to the blob :: It looks like you come from a land of Pineapples under the sea, and LOG brand toys, things that make you go Happy Happy Joy Joy, a giant ear of corn, and an orange couch? A "sign up here for the breakfast ride wooden sign", perhaps? [Yes, I could go on forever here.] :: Looks to Gir again :: Ah, you were, but your show got canned too soon? Happens to the best of them. Take solace in the fact that Sheen got a Spin-off. Bring on the Dancing Tubas! /Sheen - Jimmy Neutron :: Looks to Big Sister :: Yeah, typical Nickelodeon Fare.* I would tell you it is just a phase, but there is no end in sight. [Scary Thought: Spongebob is 11 years strong.] Then again, you have hold outs like me, that like the writing of Nick shows. The one liners on Nick are amazing. ::Holds up 4 fingers:: I would know, I have the first 4 seasons of Spongebob on DVD. ....Which might give you guys a tad too much insight on how I work. * I doubt this would be Mod enforced post restriction. Look at all the Nick Artifacts I posted..... and know that Ihad to limit my self at that list. It's probably Gir playing up the bit on .... its own.** ** Yes, I'm probably going to give watching Invader Zim a second chance after this game.
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Gir!
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 23:09:25 GMT -5
Post by Gir! on Sept 20, 2010 23:09:25 GMT -5
* I doubt this would be Mod enforced post restriction. You smell like dooky.
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 23:46:43 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 20, 2010 23:46:43 GMT -5
I knew there was something I forgot. My stance on compulsory vigs comes from personal experience as one. I've also been a non-compulsory one and even those aren't great to have around because "hey neato, I can kill people and I have this awesome power and I want to use it" syndrome. I feel that they are better off dead because of the early tendency to off townies. A non-compulsory vig can be helpful in endgame when there are some confirmed folks, but getting to that point is very costly. I haven't changed my mind on that and probably never will. Your misquote wasn't from me originally...
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Day 2
Sept 20, 2010 23:47:38 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 20, 2010 23:47:38 GMT -5
Wonky post format. The gift that keeps on giving.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 0:07:44 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 21, 2010 0:07:44 GMT -5
Hey, I was a noncompulsory vig in Ragnarok and I nailed scum my first night. The only scum that got nailed in that game, as I recall so suck on that, creepy monk.
I agree with creepy monk, however, that we set aside the vig claims for now. I am more interested in exploring other players and Tomorrow seeing who of the Raj and Staypuft set turn up right and who turns up dead.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 0:19:07 GMT -5
Post by Inner Stickler on Sept 21, 2010 0:19:07 GMT -5
I would personally like to hear more from this zeddicus zed zoolander. On day 1 all I got was that he was confused by the costumes and didn't have a post restriction. And Day 2 so far his only comment is that it is just like day 1.
Except, not really because there's the pinkies info that can be mined, the little of it that there is and the vig claims and the pust discussion. It's hard to talk if you don't post, zeddy. Don't even get me started on this.
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Total Ullz
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 3:06:11 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 21, 2010 3:06:11 GMT -5
I know it's kind of meta-gaming, but the mods seems to be looking for two subs (based on players being busy IRL). So maybe LTL isn't the best way to go right now. As we might have more active players taken on the role in Days to come.
As for the vigs I still can't see why we can't have two of them in the game. Sure they can potentially kill off lots and lots. But with powers like a mass-blocking I'm sure the moderators can thinks of ways to prevent it from turning all that ugly. So I agree on putting them on hold for now. And see what will happen toNight.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 5:30:22 GMT -5
Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Sept 21, 2010 5:30:22 GMT -5
Who you callin' creepy, bone boy?
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Total Ullz
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 6:25:25 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 21, 2010 6:25:25 GMT -5
Oh bullshit*. Do you have a post restriction too where you have to post totally obscure shit and we all have to decipher what you mean? I don't have that much time in my life. Vote Gir for appearing to contribute without actually contributing anything of substance. * this is my favorite word in this game. Get over it. I'm kind of with BigSis here. I know, I know - we should all play like the game as our costume. But only to a certain point and I'm starting to feel Gir is passing it soon. Not that some of the posts haven't been funny and all - but the 84 -->87 post could have been done with simple quotes if she didn't want to explain. In stead all have to go back to see what was said in 84 and then what was said in 87 - only to conclude it's not really that important. The 87 was simply a "yeah, what she said"-post, so it didn't bring anything new into the game. But it did make noise. And noise makes it harder to read the game and therefore (when too much of it) is making it more difficult for us to figure out what's going on.
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Meeko
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:07:19 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 21, 2010 7:07:19 GMT -5
::: sticks his hands out in front of him, palm to palm, perpendicular to the ground, then separates them a bit, and moves both hands at once to the right. :::
So now we are just moving vigs to the side, and letting them live?
I don't see town motivation to set aside killing machines. "Yes, we know that left unchecked, you will more than likely kill town members for us. Now hush!"
If everyone were to claim, not that I am suggesting that, but
if everyone were to claim, what claim would be the insta-lynch?
Apparently it is not going to be a Vig. -- What role is worse?
Not sure that Scum would claim as scum. I doubt it. Would they have cover roles in a game with no canon as such?
But at the same time, I don't think that we should hand shake ala LOTR.
It would seem we can always point to what we don't what. Not what we do what.
Jack Skellington : IIRC you said you Vigged scum on night 1 ? What is your total record as Vig, in grand total, across all games you have played?
My grand total as Vig was townie on night 1. Seems I just negated your claim.
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Meeko
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:10:47 GMT -5
Post by Meeko on Sept 21, 2010 7:10:47 GMT -5
:::Rushes Back :::
NETA : Claim in the non-mafia use of the word -- " claim " as in boast. Then again, Skellington didn't claim in the Mafia sense, but I'm nothing if not confusing to a few people. -- Apparently.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:31:13 GMT -5
Post by Drain Bead on Sept 21, 2010 7:31:13 GMT -5
The only claim that is a true insta-lynch is Miller. Anything else is negotiable, although I can understand (I'd better, anyway, since that's the way I'm voting) the desire to get rid of someone who is claiming compulsory vig. I think why you're getting problems is that you don't care if they're Town or not, whereas I (and I assume others who are voting in that direction) simply don't buy the claim, especially given the counterclaim. If I had proof he was Town (investigation results and the like), I wouldn't want to kill him, but I think you still would, and therein lies the issue people are having with you.
Daddy bless you, Buddy
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Total Ullz
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:34:52 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 21, 2010 7:34:52 GMT -5
if everyone were to claim, what claim would be the insta-lynch? Apparently it is not going to be a Vig. -- What role is worse? I'd say insta-lynch would be scum, SK, mad bomber - that kind of roles. You know the not-Town-roles. I'm a bit confused by your question? Are you actually now saying that not only would you like to kill a Town vig based on the role (and not caring about the alignment) but that you would also lynch other townies, if their "powers" didn't match what you'd consider pro-town???
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:38:26 GMT -5
Post by septimus on Sept 21, 2010 7:38:26 GMT -5
As for the Vig: so, my points regarding how important a vigilante can be later in the game? Or that their detriment to town early on really isn't very bad? You want to do math? Let's do math.... ... Get a player who knows what they're doing, and the odds increase: ... Going after the second-place lynch candidate often works as well, given that scum might have rushed a new bandwagon to save one of their own. ... Vigilantes, even compulsive ones, are not the scourge you seem to believe. This makes sense to me, especially the simple idea of going after 2nd-place lynch candidate, when lynchee flips town. The big fear expressed about the Vig was scum redirection, but a trustworthy Vig will inform us if that's happening. Sorry to offer no Lynch Vote yet. I want to Lynch the players picking trivial fights with each other, but multiple votes are not allowed. ;D
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Total Ullz
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 7:46:06 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 21, 2010 7:46:06 GMT -5
The only claim that is a true insta-lynch is Miller. I don't agree with that either. Of cause there would be times when I'd love to lynch a Miller-claim. But I still don't think it's an automatic insta-lynch. What if the player had proven really insightful and played a great game and there were other fish to fry? To talk about insta-lynch rubs me the wrong way. I don't think there should ever be such a thing. Most importantly because as long as the Jester-role exists an insta-lynch-claim is a risk to Town.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 8:17:50 GMT -5
Post by Mahaloth on Sept 21, 2010 8:17:50 GMT -5
If everyone were to claim, not that I am suggesting that, but if everyone were to claim, what claim would be the insta-lynch? Apparently it is not going to be a Vig. -- What role is worse? Not sure that Scum would claim as scum. I doubt it. Would they have cover roles in a game with no canon as such? But at the same time, I don't think that we should hand shake ala LOTR. :snipped: I can't think of a claim(aside from scum, which actually happened in a werewolf game on SDMB) that would be a definite automatic lynch. 3rd party, maybe? But that's like a scum claim. No one would do it. Handshaking? I'm moderating LOTR, so my comments will be limited about that. I have no idea if scum have cover roles in this game or not, but I don't think handshaking is wise. I mean, I'll do it if it comes down to it and everyone agrees, but I think it is a bad idea(and not in the spirit of the game). I suggest against it.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 9:03:51 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 21, 2010 9:03:51 GMT -5
The only claim that is a true insta-lynch is Miller. I don't agree with that either. Of cause there would be times when I'd love to lynch a Miller-claim. But I still don't think it's an automatic insta-lynch. What if the player had proven really insightful and played a great game and there were other fish to fry? To talk about insta-lynch rubs me the wrong way. I don't think there should ever be such a thing. Most importantly because as long as the Jester-role exists an insta-lynch-claim is a risk to Town. heartily seconded. in one of story's game he made me a miller doc (bastard). so a policy vote on millers is not prudent. especially since they are town. of course it didn't hurt that the claimed scum investigator basically stated that he could see through miller roles and discern the true alignment (why we didn't lynch him immediately on this observation still haunts me to this day). and i don't get this recent phenomenon of lynching town players just because kind of 'tude.
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 9:10:37 GMT -5
Post by peekercpa on Sept 21, 2010 9:10:37 GMT -5
What it means is that Post 87 was in response to Post 84 (to answer the question posed in Post 89). <snipped and emphasis mine> fuck, we have mind readers.
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Total Ullz
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Day 2
Sept 21, 2010 9:13:49 GMT -5
Post by Total Ullz on Sept 21, 2010 9:13:49 GMT -5
fuck, we have mind readers. Or time travellers???
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