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Post by Mahaloth on Feb 2, 2011 22:28:36 GMT -5
I remember him pulling a similar stunt last game, but I'll have to go reread that to know if the situations are really comparable. What? What stunt?
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Post by sinjin on Feb 2, 2011 22:29:08 GMT -5
@ Paronoia: Really? I question someone about a day one unprovoked vanilla claim, wait to hear his explanation, don't like his wifom answer and subsequently vote him and I'm the bad guy?
As far as the rest of your almost incomprehensible rant, my sole comment on the making up of role pm's was:
That's it, no more. Are you perhaps confusing me with someone else?
As to bobarrrgh's imputed smudge on Romola:
He/she (I have no idea who bob is) says nothing about what is strange about Romola's vote, only that it's so early in the game. In my book that's a smudge. Easily pointed to if Romola turns out to be scum. Easily dismissed if she's town.
To continue: where did I ever say that town Power Roles have to do all the heavy lifting? My opinion is that town should play for town and not themselves. Vanilla town can be very helpful but that DOES not mean that they should out or make town Power Roles less efficient or help to make them DEAD. Where there are town PR's there are frequently scum PR's. In what universe is it best to dismiss town PR's as useless while ignoring potential scum PR's?
Finally I'm not angry, why are you?
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Post by sinjin on Feb 2, 2011 22:37:18 GMT -5
Paranoia
I would encourage you to go back and reread the relevant posts when not under the influence of whatever it is you're playing with tonight. It might make more sense to you in the morning.
Sincerely, bygones;
sinjin
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Post by BobArrgh on Feb 2, 2011 22:47:15 GMT -5
@sinjin: I'm a he.
Regarding my comment on Romola, I made that comment before she had clarified that she was talking about Bill's objection to the fake role PMs and not the vanilla claim. The comment that it was "a little strange this early in the game" referred to the fact that both Romola and Bill were both just in a game where there was a vanilla town claim right out of the gate (by someone else), and Romola didn't kick up about it.
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Post by BobArrgh on Feb 2, 2011 22:48:25 GMT -5
NETA: The bolding at the beginning that post should only have been on the word "sinjin".
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Post by texcat on Feb 2, 2011 22:56:15 GMT -5
lol @ paranoid -- not even close to the peeker record of consecutive posts
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Post by Suburban Plankton on Feb 3, 2011 0:43:14 GMT -5
As I beleive I already stated, I've come to really hate the 'first post claims' that are all the rage these days, but they are a null tell, so not at all worth voting someone for.
Of the folks voting for Bill, I think Romola makes a good case (no idea if it's valid or not, but she has a valid reason and makes an argument to support it). Sinjin's vote, and harmless little bunny's vote following it, I don't like, because they are voting based on the Vanilla claim, which is a null tell.
Unlike a lot of people here, I don't see anything Scummy about Mahaloth's vote. I don't think it was a 'good' vote, but I can see where he was coming from. Frankly, I had a similar reaction when I saw Bill ask to be subbed out. It may be bleed-over from the Hotel of Heroes game where we seem to be having trouble keeping a full complement of players, but when I saw Bill's post my first thought was "oh no, not this again..." So I can understand Mahaloth making a 'statement vote' because of it.
And regarding Bill's request, after thinking about it I think I might be able to see where he's coming from as well. He was just killed on Night 1 in the last game for no reason (in my opinion) other than "he's really good at catching Scum". I think he was concerned about another Night 1 exit for no other reason than "being Bill", and when he became the early lynch leader on Day 1, he overreacted. I hope that he'll reconsider.
Having said all that, I will
vote harmless little bunny
For jumping on the Bill bandwagon, then when that one started to lose steam, jumping off just to hop onto the Mahaloth one, and making no other contribution to the game at all.
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Post by naturallylazy on Feb 3, 2011 1:03:57 GMT -5
ALSO Nat (as in NatLazy) WHERE, OH WHERE ART THOU. I would really, sincerely, and kindly like your thoughts, pretty please.~ Naturally, you would. I'm a little shy about posting them, for which I apologize. I really shouldn't be. Vanilla claims on day one: arbitrary. I've observed people who play with them, and others who don't. I've nearly been lynched because I revealed I had a Role PM in a round where supposedly Vanilla town players did not have role PMs. What's great is ALL Vanilla Town players actually had role PMs, and the mafia tried to claim otherwise. I do not see this vanilla claiming business as a reason to vote Bill anymore than a reason not to vote him. If anything, I think it's stupidly scummy to vote for him BECAUSE he claimed alone. I realize most of the cases on Bill have more than that to their cases, but the fact that it's being used as supporting evidence is WRONG on so many different levels. There seems to have also been votes on Mahaloth. These seem to be somewhat based on Meta which I clearly don't have, so I can't really do much about that, other than go back and read these rounds. Considering what I'm working with, that would be almost ridiculously counter-productive, and unnecessary. If it's there (I'm moving quite a bit slower this round, probably because I actually have to think more), the following shit does seem weird, I can't deny that, but I'd like to see a decent paragraph from him (her?). Another, if he has already posted one and I missed it. Personally, I'd like to hear from Captain Pinkie. That is where my attention has been drawn. I feel that your posts have been very... strange. I can't explain it properly. Perhaps there is somebody else who knows more about it than I do, but you're definitely a player that has been pegged for watching. I have yet to decide if a vote is warranted. If you do happen to show up on the thread, I know that I would greatly appreciate a thought-out post. I cannot get a decent read on you, and from past experience, it's not a good position to be in. For either of us. Let's see... I am getting headaches every time Role theory pops up. "Oh, if we have role X, then Role Y should do this and Role Z should do this. But then Role P could do this and Role V could do that. So, everybody target W, and we'll be a-okay~!" Uh, No. That's not how this works. If that's how it works, then I should just say right now - There had better be a doc AND a shrink on me here, because I haven't made it as town through three phases in such a long time that I'm likely to be either hit or converted before the dawn of Day Two. I don't remember who was sitting down and WIFOM-ing a town watcher and a mafia watcher (isn't that more like a stalker?) going around, but that is almost the most ridiculous thing I've seen on a thread in the absolute LONGEST time. Oh, yeah. It was Bill. Go figure. That said, Bill, please don't quit. If I may, it never looks good to quit. If anything, it reflects poorly on yourself, and shows a low tolerance for crazy stuff that always happens. Which is generally something that's not good in Mafia players, it just makes the game less of ... uh... less of a game, and more of crazy stuff just went down and now I should be stressed ball of twine. OR something like that. That would generally be how the game runs under everybody quit when the going gets tough scenario. Also: I need a new vote tally. >_> Mine has totally been lost with everything else I've been doing. I've probably been cut a few times, considering that my roommate went to bed about fifteen minutes after I started this post, and that was half an hour ago. *sigh* Oh well.
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Post by naturallylazy on Feb 3, 2011 1:04:42 GMT -5
Texcat: What the crap is THAT? Is that all you have to contribute to this?
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timmy
Mome Rath
In the frozen land of Nador they were forced to eat Robin's minstrels. And there was much rejoicing
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Post by timmy on Feb 3, 2011 1:37:12 GMT -5
Speaking of peeker... I find his lack of posts... disturbing.
I can't find BillMc's posts worth voting for--- it sounds like his frustrations are boiling over. I hope he remains in the game (if he's Town, otherwise let's lynch the SOB).
Same goes for Mahaloth: he posted like this in Blockey's Halloween game and never had me convinced he wasn't Scum (turns out he was Town). My inclination was to pursue a vote on BobArrgh for his off-the cuff ramblings but I can't because he's sounding like a confused Townie. (I could be wrong on this.) Captain Pinkies' posts have been mostly "WTFs???" and harmless bunny has been too quick to hop from one bandwagon to the next. And this rapport between Paranoia, Texcat, and NatLazy have me scratching my head--- some kind of secret communique?--- whatever. What I'm trying to say is there are plenty of posts that I could look at as being suspicious but I'm not seeing anything conclusive. It's times like these I wish Ed was playing just so I could vote for him to get him fired up (that was a joke, Mr Mod).
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Post by KidVermicious on Feb 3, 2011 2:41:00 GMT -5
a smudge is something more like KidV implying that Renata's post about liking instantaneous fake pms means that she is scum herself - ignoring the context of having to use such services in the past. This is chock full of wrong, and I'm quoting it here to make it easier to find later if I need.
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Post by harmless little bunny on Feb 3, 2011 6:28:45 GMT -5
Speaking of peeker... I find his lack of posts... disturbing. I can't find BillMc's posts worth voting for--- it sounds like his frustrations are boiling over. I hope he remains in the game (if he's Town, otherwise let's lynch the SOB). Same goes for Mahaloth: he posted like this in Blockey's Halloween game and never had me convinced he wasn't Scum (turns out he was Town). My inclination was to pursue a vote on BobArrgh for his off-the cuff ramblings but I can't because he's sounding like a confused Townie. (I could be wrong on this.) Captain Pinkies' posts have been mostly "WTFs???" and harmless bunny has been too quick to hop from one bandwagon to the next. And this rapport between Paranoia, Texcat, and NatLazy have me scratching my head--- some kind of secret communique?--- whatever. What I'm trying to say is there are plenty of posts that I could look at as being suspicious but I'm not seeing anything conclusive. It's times like these I wish Ed was playing just so I could vote for him to get him fired up (that was a joke, Mr Mod). The reason I was quick to jump to a new bandwagon is because the case against Bill was pretty weak. I was voting him because I don't like vanilla claims and I think it hurts town. On Day 1 you generally don't have much more to go on until votes start flying. I like to vote anyways to generate discussion even if I don't have a strong lead. So, when a better case came up against Malhaloth, I placed my vote there instead. So I understand how it looks to jump from bandwagon to bandwagon, but I am simply voting the player who I believe is most likely to be scum.
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Total Ullz
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You can take the girl out of mafia - but you can't take mafia out of the girl
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 3, 2011 6:32:29 GMT -5
Vote Countwith approximately 3 days, 21 hours and 26 minutes until DayEnd Player (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed] BillMc (2)(4) Romola [113], sinjin [128], harmless little bunny [131, 168] , Mahaloth [139,160] Mahaloth (2) (1) Red Skeezix [153], harmless little bunny [168] harmless little bunny (2)(2) Renata [141,156], romanic [165], Suburban Plankton [186] Sinjin (1) (1) Paranoia [174] Hockey Monkey (0)(1) Renata [140,141]Invalid (1)(1) peekercpa [15] Trying to vote but not succeeding (1) KidVermicious [93] Not voting (15) Renata, Merestil Haye, BillMc, Sister Coyote, Captain Pinkies, Hockey Monkey, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, bobarrgh, texcat, timmy, naturallylazy, guiri, pedescribe, Natlaw, Mahaloth With these votes, BillMc will be lynched
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Post by ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies on Feb 3, 2011 7:09:37 GMT -5
I guess Bill's really leaving us then?
Can we at least know if there is a sub-search underway or not? I don't have to know what exactly is going to go down, just whether or not we're on our own.[/color] thnx
Depending on that answer, if we are left to our own devices, I would consider voting him into the noose. He would be more useful, I think, if at least being able to speak to us in death (with his flip details) than not saying anything further due to walking away.
That is the only condition where I'd be willing to lynch him at this point though. If he comes back or if we get a sub, that is not what I think we should do.
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 3, 2011 7:13:20 GMT -5
Can we at least know if there is a sub-search underway or not? I don't have to know what exactly is going to go down, just whether or not we're on our own. [/color] thnx [/quote] The mods are not ignoring the issue...
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Post by BobArrgh on Feb 3, 2011 8:04:50 GMT -5
@mods: You might want to edit your note on KidV in your #192. You have him "Trying to vote but not succeeding" listed as #193. I believe it should be just #93.
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Post by Renata on Feb 3, 2011 8:10:37 GMT -5
Unlike a lot of people here, I don't see anything Scummy about Mahaloth's vote. I don't think it was a 'good' vote, but I can see where he was coming from. Frankly, I had a similar reaction when I saw Bill ask to be subbed out. It may be bleed-over from the Hotel of Heroes game where we seem to be having trouble keeping a full complement of players, but when I saw Bill's post my first thought was "oh no, not this again..." So I can understand Mahaloth making a 'statement vote' because of it. Is that what it was, a statement vote? Where do you get that idea from his post?
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Total Ullz
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Post by Total Ullz on Feb 3, 2011 8:13:08 GMT -5
@mods: You might want to edit your note on KidV in your #192. You have him "Trying to vote but not succeeding" listed as #193. I believe it should be just #93. Thanks!!!
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Post by Renata on Feb 3, 2011 8:16:24 GMT -5
Texcat: What the crap is THAT? Is that all you have to contribute to this? Seconded, in slightly different language.
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Post by Renata on Feb 3, 2011 8:17:37 GMT -5
Speaking of peeker... I find his lack of posts... disturbing. This, too.
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Post by Renata on Feb 3, 2011 8:24:24 GMT -5
I guess Bill's really leaving us then? Can we at least know if there is a sub-search underway or not? I don't have to know what exactly is going to go down, just whether or not we're on our own.[/color] thnx Depending on that answer, if we are left to our own devices, I would consider voting him into the noose. He would be more useful, I think, if at least being able to speak to us in death (with his flip details) than not saying anything further due to walking away. That is the only condition where I'd be willing to lynch him at this point though. If he comes back or if we get a sub, that is not what I think we should do. [/quote] I would not support a lynch of him if he's gone (outside of a situation where we're about to lynch someone with a drop-dead claim and there's nothing reasonable to replace it, that sort of thing). For one, there's the final vote mechanism, which seems intended for just this sort of thing. It's not entirely a satisfactory solution, but it's there and should be considered. Second, and more pertinent, we don't know yet if we have a vig. Dealing with absent players is possibly a vig's highest calling, since the discussion on lynching one is so rarely of any use later on (especially if the player involved is town, which Bill may well be). I'd want to give it 2-3 nights, depending on circumstances, before seriously considering a lynch.
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Post by Renata on Feb 3, 2011 8:25:16 GMT -5
(Also, Ulla, I'm still in the "not voting" list, and I shouldn't be.)
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Post by Romanic on Feb 3, 2011 8:50:41 GMT -5
BillMc (2)(4) Romola [113], sinjin [128], harmless little bunny [131, 168] , Mahaloth [139,160] Mahaloth (2) (1) Red Skeezix [153], harmless little bunny [168] harmless little bunny (2)(2) Renata [141,156], romanic [165], Suburban Plankton [186] I've been shy to ask in Sister's game, but I have to ask now.... What are those numbers following the player names?I can't figure this out... I thought one was representing the current votes, and the other would be the maximum reached, but it doesn't fit in this case.
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2011 8:54:59 GMT -5
Vote Count with approximately 3 days, 19 hours and 5 minutes until DayEnd
Player (# of votes) (peak number of votes) voters [post in which vote was cast, post in which vote was removed]
Mahaloth (3)(3) Red Skeezix [153], Renata [156], harmless little bunny [168] BillMc (2)(4) Romola [113], sinjin [128], harmless little bunny [131 168], Mahaloth [139 160] harmless little bunny (2)(2) Renata [141 156], Romanic [164], Suburban Plankton [186] Invalid (1)(1) peekercpa [15] sinjin (1)(1) Paranoia [174] Hockey Monkey (0)(1) Renata [140,141]
Trying to vote but not succeeding (1) KidVermicious [93]
Not voting (14) Mahaloth, Merestil Haye, BillMc, Sister Coyote, Captain Pinkies, Hockey Monkey, ComeToTheDarkSideWeHaveCookies, bobarrgh, texcat, timmy, naturallylazy, guiri, pedescribe, Natlaw
With these votes, Mahaloth will be lynched
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2011 8:57:45 GMT -5
BillMc (2)(4) Romola [113], sinjin [128], harmless little bunny [131, 168] , Mahaloth [139,160] Mahaloth (2) (1) Red Skeezix [153], harmless little bunny [168] harmless little bunny (2)(2) Renata [141,156], romanic [165], Suburban Plankton [186] I've been shy to ask in Sister's game, but I have to ask now.... What are those numbers following the player names?I can't figure this out... I thought one was representing the current votes, and the other would be the maximum reached, but it doesn't fit in this case. You are correct. The maximum number of votes is the maximum number that a player reached at any one time. It does not include all votes for that person. For example, harmless little bunny has had 3 people voting for him, but the most votes he had at any one time is 2.
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Post by Romanic on Feb 3, 2011 9:27:12 GMT -5
You are correct. The maximum number of votes is the maximum number that a player reached at any one time. It does not include all votes for that person. For example, harmless little bunny has had 3 people voting for him, but the most votes he had at any one time is 2. Ah, I get it now, thanks. I was confused by hlbunny having three votes, but they were never all on him at the same time.
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Post by special on Feb 3, 2011 9:44:15 GMT -5
You are correct. The maximum number of votes is the maximum number that a player reached at any one time. It does not include all votes for that person. For example, harmless little bunny has had 3 people voting for him, but the most votes he had at any one time is 2. Ah, I get it now, thanks. I was confused by hlbunny having three votes, but they were never all on him at the same time. and, of course, other errors are sometimes just that, mod errors.
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2011 10:13:41 GMT -5
and this is not pick on nat but she does seem to do a good job of making a kind of comprehensive list of annoyances that the group has against unprovoked early niller townie claims. so although i am quoting nat i think my comments probably address a number of different folks. The unprovoked claims Day One annoy me more than they rationally should. It's pure WIFOM so a null tell - could be either town telling the truth or town/scum lying. So for town that doesn't help either way determining the alignment of the claiming player. well at least you admit that it is irrational to have them annoy you. additionally, as you note it's all just WIFOM. why is it that this null tell seems to arouse such passion and others don't? -as far as I know all these unprovoked claims have been truthful so far, which keeps me thinking that statistically the odds rise that this time it must be a scum doing it (I don't think that is sound math since the games/claims aren't connected but it still feels that way) yeh, gambler's fallacy is not a good way to approach this game. or to be frank any numer of other endeavors that you may engage in. -and if it is a scum claiming it feels like taunting town. It's not a defensive move of "Really guys don't lynch me! I'm town" but a "Hai guys nice game! I'm vanilla town don't worry about me! <FONT style="FONT-SIZE: 6px">(smothered evil laugh)" i don't get this at all. scum will claim all sorts of stuff during the course of a game. i don't consider that "taunting" but merely the way this puppy plays. -Town/Truthfull: shrinks power pool (not really since it's WIFOM but as said history supports it and town would prefer not to lie but then again the how claimed reason for the claim is that it could be a lie) i don't see how it shrinks the town power pool at all. it's all null as you previously note. if i were scum i sure am not sitting back right now and going let's kill someone not bill because he is only a niller townie. and regarding your second point i go back to the gambler's fallacy. -Town/Lying: gives double WIFOM when the true claim comes out (possible in a close-to-Dusk lynch situation where time is short, the lying could be used as a reason to keep a vote/not remove it) it should only influence a vote/unvote in the case where you lend credence to the original claim. if folks really believe that it is a null tell then if they turned around and used that as justification to lynch or not lynch then they should surely get the hairy eyeball the next Day. -scum/Lying: let's scum freely declare they are town (and repeat a lie long enough...) uh, do you really think that scum don't lie or won't declare that they are town during the course of game?
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Post by peekercpa on Feb 3, 2011 10:34:16 GMT -5
posting as i catch up Speaking of peeker... I find his lack of posts... disturbing. <snipped> i'm back. the giraffe came kind of heated up while this one was kicking off so meh. There had better be a doc AND a shrink on me here, because I haven't made it as town through three phases in such a long time that I'm likely to be either hit or converted before the dawn of Day Two. <snipped> just so you know lyla if "converted" means what i think we typically frown on recruitment mechanisms in games on this board.
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Post by Captain Pinkies on Feb 3, 2011 11:13:29 GMT -5
ALSO Personally, I'd like to hear from Captain Pinkie. That is where my attention has been drawn. I feel that your posts have been very... strange. I can't explain it properly. Perhaps there is somebody else who knows more about it than I do, but you're definitely a player that has been pegged for watching. I have yet to decide if a vote is warranted. If you do happen to show up on the thread, I know that I would greatly appreciate a thought-out post. I cannot get a decent read on you, and from past experience, it's not a good position to be in. For either of us. Hmm... Not sure what I have to contribute at this point. I'm not sure if we have played before, but as many people who played with me in the past I don't really get a true feeling of a game until about day 3. I am not sure I what I done to "drawn your attention" other than ask some questions. See to me questions are a great way to determine intent... So what do you want to know? <== passes a round [hicup] of Thursday Night Specials Ingredients to use: 1.5 oz Peach Schnapps 3 oz Pine-Orange-Banana Pineapple Juice 1.5 oz Grey Goose Vodka 0.5 pkg Tropical Twist Kool-Aid 3 oz Peach Nectar Directions: Mix it all together, throw it in a big cup. Amounts can easily be doubled on the alcohol.
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